COVID-19 Megathread 6: Return of the Omicron

[Hammy]

Governors in Florida and Texas who try to ban mitigation measures, or downplay what this is doing to the healthcare system (leading to more recklessness) absolutely deserve blame, as do those in midwestern states spewing dangerous antivax theories, along with people like Cuomo who put their public image above all, absolutely deserve all the blame they recieve.

A lot of states were hit harder than FL/TX during last winter/spring, for instance CA/MA/NY despite way more and stricter "mitigation measures" (masking? what's more?). It might work in very short run (so unclear, seems like weather/luck matters way more), but in long run it simple doesn't work. What work are vaccines. So if you want to drag them, drag for right things, not for symbolic theater.

My issues on that item were specifically were the attempts to ban school mask mandates at a time when the vaccine is unavailable to those under 12.

CA/NY/MA and other states fared poorly because the state-level measures weren't being enforced in the first place (and Newsom is also a horrible governor, imposing mandates that he and his inner circle were repeatedly given exceptions to) and a lot of the blame there also lies on him, but we don't have hoards of people here defending him in the first place). Not to mention Cuomo forcing unprepared nursing homes to take covid patients.

As far as Texas, I think the numbers would've been quite a bit higher had they not had that massive cold snap that kept people in their homes a lot more, so you had less people interacting with each other in general.

And Florida was lower than some other states per capita due to less travel and a lot of the theme parks remaining closed or at limited capacity.

[Skunk]

If that doesn't convince you, how about this: mask mandates are supported by a majority of the public (source: https://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/documents/monmouthpoll_us_080221.pdf/), including 85% of Democrats. Do you really want to associate yourself with the Trumpist pro-COVID forces, who stormed the Capitol, believe the vaccine is a conspiracy for Bill Gates to mind control the world, and take horse dewormer for COVID? No? Then get in line with your party.

This might be a foreign concept to you but people are capable of thinking for themselves. People with common sense pointing out that current mask mandates are largely unnecessary because the areas more likely to enact and enforce them are high vaccinated areas where individuals are less susceptible to COVID, including mUh DeLtA vArIaNt that you're losing your mind over, aren't on the same level as the unvaccinated morons taking horse medicine no matter how much you repeat it.

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

My issues on that item were specifically were the attempts to ban school mask mandates at a time when the vaccine is unavailable to those under 12.

You know what the bizarre thing about US vs Europe? That most of Europe are really against school masking (like Desantis). Why? Because worries of how it might effect kids overweight. And we KNOW that poor kids (= skew non-white) are hurt most. Of the same reason they tried really f**king hard to keep most schools open.

In American Media there have been few articles about, because it is somehow controversial and because ORANGE MAN BAD - FLORIDA MAN DEATH SANTIS BADDER!
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/school-mask-mandates-downside/619952/
The Downsides of Masking Young Students Are Real
The educational cost of face coverings is far better established than the benefits of mandates.

Scientists have an obligation to strive for honesty. And on the question of whether kids should wear masks in schools—particularly preschools and elementary schools—here is what I conclude: The potential educational harms of mandatory-masking policies are much more firmly established, at least at this point, than their possible benefits in stopping the spread of COVID-19 in schools. To justify continued masking of schoolkids—with no end date in sight—we have to prove that masks benefit kids, and at what ages. States and communities that are considering masking policies just to be safe should recognize that being overly cautious has a cost, while the benefits are uncertain.

For most able-bodied adults, masks in public indoor settings pose only minor inconveniences. But children—who even amid the worrisome Delta-variant surge are experiencing serious outcomes from COVID-19 at far lower rates than people in older age groups are—have different needs and vulnerabilities than adults. Early childhood is a crucial period when humans develop cultural, language, and social skills, including the ability to detect emotion on other people’s faces. Social interactions with friends, parents, and caregivers are integral to fostering children’s growth and well-being.

What's up with Europe? >>>
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/27/us/students-masks-classrooms-britain.html
In Britain, Young Children Don’t Wear Masks in School
During the Delta surge, British schools emphasized other safety measures: quarantining and regular testing for the virus.

From late spring into early summer, Britain’s elementary and secondary schools were open during an alarming wave of Delta infections.

And they handled the Delta spike in ways that might surprise American parents, educators and lawmakers: Masking was a limited part of the strategy. In fact, for the most part, elementary school students and their teachers did not wear them in classrooms at all.

Instead, the British government focused on other safety measures, widespread quarantining and rapid testing.

The potential harms exceed the potential benefits, he said, because seeing faces is “important for the social development and interaction between people.”

The British school system is different than the American one. But with school systems all over the United States debating whether to require masking, Britain’s experience during the Delta surge does show what happened in a country that relied on another safety measure — quarantining — rather than face coverings for young children.

Unlike the United States, all public and private schools in England are expected to follow the national government’s virus mandates, and there is a single set of guidelines. (Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are responsible for their own schools, but the rules have been similar.)

It is difficult to pinpoint exactly how much spread occurred on campuses. But throughout the pandemic, government studies showed that infection rates in schools did not exceed those in the community at large, Dr. Ladhani said. In schools that experienced multiple virus cases, he added, there were often “multiple introductions” — meaning that infections were likely acquired outside the building

And there was less partisan divide; both the Conservative and Labour Parties have generally believed that face coverings hinder young children’s ability to communicate, socialize and learn.

Today, after long periods of shuttered classrooms, there is now a broad consensus in Britain that policies that keep children out of school are “extremely harmful in the long term,” Dr. Munro said.

I've been talking about it since last summer (!!). F**king reopen schools!.. American Media knew what consensus was in Europe (and there were bunch of studies last summer that proved Europeans right). The Enemy of the People chose to cover it up and pretend that cRAzY REpubliCanS wANt to kIlL oUr KIdS and GraNnDmAES in order to keep Trump from getting elected. And they won. Most Americans are now pro-school masking/closing... Especially minorities.

Is Britain an outlier? Nope. The countries with more equal school system all mostly "ban" masking for kids. And WHO as well (kind of).
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/08/the-science-of-masking-kids-at-school-remains-uncertain.html
The Science of Masking Kids at School Remains Uncertain

In the realm of science and public-health policy outside the U.S., the implications of these particular findings are not exactly controversial. Many of America’s peer nations around the world — including the U.K., Ireland, all of Scandinavia, France, the Netherlands, Switzerland, and Italy — have exempted kids, with varying age cutoffs, from wearing masks in classrooms. Conspicuously, there’s no evidence of more outbreaks in schools in those countries relative to schools in the U.S., where the solid majority of kids wore masks for an entire academic year and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. These countries, along with the World Health Organization, whose child-masking guidance differs substantially from the CDC’s recommendations, have explicitly recognized that the decision to mask students carries with it potential academic and social harms for children and may lack a clear benefit. To date, the highly transmissible Delta variant has not led them to change this calculus. (Many experts I spoke with told me that while the Delta variant represents a major and concerning new development in the Covid pandemic, it probably shouldn’t change our thinking on a mask requirement for schools.)

Democrats of US are the outlier and has crazy and racist policies about schools (closure and masking), not DeSantis, who actually mostly follows science (re:schools).
Democrats of US are the only ones who prioritize "owning" Trump (TDS) over kids.

Bizarre, because Democrats pretend to be "saviors" over poors/minorities...

I'm not a defender of DeSantis. He didn't made nearly enough to vaccinate nurses/workers of nurse home etc by mandates or whatever. His priority of promoting early treatment or whatever over extremely effective vaccines is extremely bizarre, dissapointing and almost criminally stupid. His feuds with cruise companies are stupid as well. But his stance on schooling [and probably most mitigation measures] are actually good and scientifically based.



The most disappointing thing on this forum, that there are many European posters, but all of them are cowardly silent on re:schools, because they don't want to face red avatars [TDS-induced] rage. Cowards. What a shame.


By the way, how many average Americans knows that Covid is as dangerous as flue for kids (NPR). Probably under 20%. Perception created by fear-morngering of Media and Democrats...

Oh, whatever. The mask cult has won over Murica.

[Hammy]

[snipped for length]

By the way, how many average Americans knows that Covid is as dangerous as flue for kids (NPR). Probably under 20%. Perception created by fear-morngering of Media and Democrats...

Oh, whatever. The mask cult has won over Murica.

Covid causes lasting symptoms in a third or so of children: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-science/some-lingering-covid-19-issues-seen-in-children-patients-antibodies-attack-multiple-virus-targets-idUSKBN2A13I6

And the purpose of mask mandates is to stop the teachers from spreading it to children. Ideally we'd have a vaccine mandate for all school staff and parents, but since absolutely nobody with the means seems to want to do that I'll settle for the next closest thing.

[Pericles]

A striking data point is that the US and the UK have the same daily case rate, around 500 per million, but the US daily death toll of 4.21 per million is over 2 and a half times the UK rate (1.56 per million). None of this is because of the US healthcare system being worse than the UK one, oddly in January they had similar case rates but the UK per capita death toll was double the US one. The UK vaccine takeup is better than the US one-they have 72% first dosed and 64% fully vaccinated, while the US has 62% first dosed and 53% fully vaccinated. Still, the US death toll shouldn't be so high, the vast majority of the vulnerable populations have been vaccinated (82% of over 65s are fully vaccinated). So what do you think is making the US do badly?

EDIT: Never mind, the UK is testing so much more than the US, they did 11.32 daily tests per million to 3.32 per million for the US. So Delta has spread so much more in the US. That is slightly surprising since the UK has looser restrictions and is more densely populated, but maybe voluntary social distancing and mask-wearing is much higher there.

[Horus]

A striking data point is that the US and the UK have the same daily case rate, around 500 per million, but the US daily death toll of 4.21 per million is over 2 and a half times the UK rate (1.56 per million). None of this is because of the US healthcare system being worse than the UK one, oddly in January they had similar case rates but the UK per capita death toll was double the US one. The UK vaccine takeup is better than the US one-they have 72% first dosed and 64% fully vaccinated, while the US has 62% first dosed and 53% fully vaccinated. Still, the US death toll shouldn't be so high, the vast majority of the vulnerable populations have been vaccinated (82% of over 65s are fully vaccinated). So what do you think is making the US do badly?

EDIT: Never mind, the UK is testing so much more than the US, they did 11.32 daily tests per million to 3.32 per million for the US. So Delta has spread so much more in the US. That is slightly surprising since the UK has looser restrictions and is more densely populated, but maybe voluntary social distancing and mask-wearing is much higher there.

Also America is twice as obese. Most deaths are among the obese.

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

[snipped for length]

By the way, how many average Americans knows that Covid is as dangerous as flue for kids (NPR). Probably under 20%. Perception created by fear-morngering of Media and Democrats...

Oh, whatever. The mask cult has won over Murica.

Covid causes lasting symptoms in a third or so of children: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-science/some-lingering-covid-19-issues-seen-in-children-patients-antibodies-attack-multiple-virus-targets-idUSKBN2A13I6

And the purpose of mask mandates is to stop the teachers from spreading it to children. Ideally we'd have a vaccine mandate for all school staff and parents, but since absolutely nobody with the means seems to want to do that I'll settle for the next closest thing.

It's just one [very small per article] study and probably half of long covid symptoms might be because of restrictions (study highlights mental because of restriction). Children are created for socializing and playing around.

Spoiler alert! Click Show to show the content.

Show

"Long COVID" - a term that refers to effects of the virus that linger for weeks or months - may be a problem for children, too, a small study suggests. Doctors at a large Italian hospital tracked 129 children and teens with COVID-19 who were otherwise generally healthy. At an average of about five months after their diagnosis, only about 42% had completely recovered. Roughly one in three youngsters still had one or two symptoms and more than one in five had three or more, according to a report posted on Tuesday on medRxiv ahead of peer review. The most common persistent problems were insomnia (reported by 18.6%), respiratory symptoms including pain and chest tightness (14.7%), nasal congestion (12.4%), fatigue (10.8%), muscle pain (10.1%), joint pain (6.9%), and concentration difficulties (10.1%). Although these issues were more common in children who had been obviously sick, they also developed in infected youths with few or no symptoms initially. There is increasing evidence that restrictive measures aimed at curbing the pandemic are significantly impacting childrens' mental health, the researchers acknowledge. Still, their findings suggest, the potential long-term effects COVID-19 can have on children should be considered when developing measures to reduce the impact of the pandemic on their overall health.

But I think I gave enough info re:school masking/closure. If one still doubts, whatever.

A striking data point is that the US and the UK have the same daily case rate, around 500 per million, but the US daily death toll of 4.21 per million is over 2 and a half times the UK rate (1.56 per million). None of this is because of the US healthcare system being worse than the UK one, oddly in January they had similar case rates but the UK per capita death toll was double the US one. The UK vaccine takeup is better than the US one-they have 72% first dosed and 64% fully vaccinated, while the US has 62% first dosed and 53% fully vaccinated. Still, the US death toll shouldn't be so high, the vast majority of the vulnerable populations have been vaccinated (82% of over 65s are fully vaccinated). So what do you think is making the US do badly?

UK (and Spain, likely other countries as well, but I don't follow) has almost 100% vaccination rate among elder population. Here's from Spain:

https://www.mscbs.gob.es/profesionales/saludPublica/ccayes/alertasActual/nCov/documentos/Informe_GIV_comunicacion_20210902.pdf



Insanely good as you see. 92% of 40+ (!!!). UK has similar #s, IIRC.

[Pericles]

A striking data point is that the US and the UK have the same daily case rate, around 500 per million, but the US daily death toll of 4.21 per million is over 2 and a half times the UK rate (1.56 per million). None of this is because of the US healthcare system being worse than the UK one, oddly in January they had similar case rates but the UK per capita death toll was double the US one. The UK vaccine takeup is better than the US one-they have 72% first dosed and 64% fully vaccinated, while the US has 62% first dosed and 53% fully vaccinated. Still, the US death toll shouldn't be so high, the vast majority of the vulnerable populations have been vaccinated (82% of over 65s are fully vaccinated). So what do you think is making the US do badly?

EDIT: Never mind, the UK is testing so much more than the US, they did 11.32 daily tests per million to 3.32 per million for the US. So Delta has spread so much more in the US. That is slightly surprising since the UK has looser restrictions and is more densely populated, but maybe voluntary social distancing and mask-wearing is much higher there.

Also America is twice as obese. Most deaths are among the obese.

If that mattered, the fatality rate before the vaccine rollout would have been higher in the US rather than the UK, it was the other way around. The US population is a bit younger, but I'm not sure if the difference was meaningful.

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

We really need expedited approval of the covid vaccine for kids, and then once they are vaccinated, an end to school mask requirements.

The real facts remain that even unvaccinated children are much less likely to die of covid than even vaccinated adults.  As a baseline, children have been 400 times less likely to die than all adults, meaning they are still 20 times less like to die than an adult who has received a 95% effective vaccine.

Nevertheless, I can see a justification for masks as long as we are masking vaccinated adults.  But once a kid is vaccinated, there is really no justification for masks at all.  The risk is just so infinitesimal as to not merit any significant intervention.

[Alben Barkley]

At this point I unironically believe that mask mandates are oppressive. Simply because they target even those who are fully vaccinated and have done everything right, whereas most of those who refuse to get vaccinated are also not going to wear masks anyway. That's a textbook form of collective punishment as far as I'm concerned. Literally the entire thing is now a performative stunt among people who already are effectively immune from the virus (or its worst effects at least) trying to show off to each other how woke and enlightened they are because they cover their faces with a placebo cloth. While the only people who might possibly benefit from it shun and scoff at it. It's incredibly bizarre to me, and alienates me even farther from "my side" (the left) than I already was. And I can't imagine I'm alone in that.

My philosophy about this whole thing now is simple:

1. Let those who insist on dying die. Don't try to interfere with the will of Darwin!

2. Let those of us who long ago made the decision to take the f--king shot and get on with our lives actually do so, rather than continue to try in vain to "protect" those who clearly and adamantly do not want to be "protected."

3. Don't worry about the children, as even an unvaccinated child is still exponentially less likely to die from COVID than a vaccinated middle aged adult, who himself has a smaller risk of dying from COVID than from a bee sting.

The entire thing at this point strikes me now less as a public health concern and more as some bizarre religious ritual crossed with a dick measuring contest. Just STOP. Just STOP already. Leave me alone, leave the kids alone, leave EVERYONE alone. If they are stupid enough to expose themselves to the virus unvaccinated, LET THEM! That is THEIR choice and THEIR problem! Ours is NOT an authoritarian country like China, or at least it's not supposed to be.

Fact of the matter is COVID-19 can now safely be considered a nuisance virus like the flu that CAN be deadly to those who refuse to take the vaccine against it, but ultimately is basically a complete non-threat to those who do and isn't even likely at all to kill most of those who don't. We'll probably be stuck with it forever, like the flu, but we don't HAVE to be stuck with ridiculous Draconian measures to "stop" it forever unless we choose to. These tactics will never actually successfully purge the thing from the Earth but they can and will anger many reasonable people who might otherwise sympathize with the side of the political aisle that is pushing them.

I mean seriously, some of the takes I'm seeing from Twitter and elsewhere seem to be logically implying that any risk whatsoever in life, no matter how minute, is absolutely unacceptable and anyone who believes otherwise is a literal murderer. By this "logic," driving a car is murder, as it is now far, far, far, far, infinite number of FARs more likely to kill a vaccinated adult or child than COVID.

I say the loons who unironically believe we all still need masks can go ahead and lock themselves in bubbles for the rest of their lives and the rest of us can laugh at them as they argue with George Costanza about the correct spelling of "the Moops." But they have to f--k off and leave the rest of us who are not severely psychologically crippled alone to live our lives!

This post is just wrong on several counts:

1. At this point, nobody is safe from COVID. It's abundantly clear by now that with Delta, breakthrough cases are not rare events at all, and may even be stretching to call them uncommon. There's still protection against severe disease but new data show that is waning; this is why there is now a push for booster shots.

2. Masks are no "placebo", they have repeatedly proven effective at stopping respiratory disease transmission.

3. Masks are a zero cost mitigation measure, a surgical mask costs 5-10c apiece. They don't harm the economy at all, a mask doesn't prevent one from doing anything once the usual exceptions for bars and restaurants are carved out.

If that doesn't convince you, how about this: mask mandates are supported by a majority of the public (source: https://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/documents/monmouthpoll_us_080221.pdf/), including 85% of Democrats. Do you really want to associate yourself with the Trumpist pro-COVID forces, who stormed the Capitol, believe the vaccine is a conspiracy for Bill Gates to mind control the world, and take horse dewormer for COVID? No? Then get in line with your party.

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that I care more about what "the party" or even "the public" feels than about what the facts and the evidence show. Sadly for you, that is not now, has not ever been, and never will be the case.

As I thought I made pretty clear, BOTH the raving right-wing lunatics who think horse dewormer is a magic cure AND the smug lefties who seem to think that masks are a magic cure are simply dead wrong. And I won't pretend otherwise no matter how convenient or not it is to any particular narrative.

[GeneralMacArthur]

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that I care more about what "the party" or even "the public" feels than about what the facts and the evidence show. Sadly for you, that is not now, has not ever been, and never will be the case.

As I thought I made pretty clear, BOTH the raving right-wing lunatics who think horse dewormer is a magic cure AND the smug lefties who seem to think that masks are a magic cure are simply dead wrong. And I won't pretend otherwise no matter how convenient or not it is to any particular narrative.

Why do you constantly feel the need to strawman the left in your COVID posts?  It's very telling.

Nobody thinks masks are a "magic cure."  That is something you made up so you could dunk on us.
 But they are scientifically proven to reduce the risk of transmission.  And it's 100% common sense that they would function in this way since they reduce particles expelled forward from the mouth.

[Progressive Pessimist]

So, my 87 year old grandpa, residing in a Florida assisted living home has now tested positive for COVID. Thankfully he is fully vaccinated, so I expect him to be okay in the end. But the poor guy is being taken two hours away to Jacksonville to be sequestered with other COVID positive seniors for at least two weeks. It's still not something that should be happening anymore. Furthermore; my aunt, dad, and grandma all had to get tested and quarantine until they get their results.

I've theorized that my grandpa got the virus from a worker at the home. Thanks, DeSuckass!
I've always, notoriously, loathed him; but now it's personal with me. F*** this incompetent scumbag!

As if I needed more to be angry about lately...I seriously feel like I'm losing my mind. I had a nice break from it for a short time, but we're right back to this country feeling like an apocalyptic wasteland to me...literally. People abandoned their cars on major highways here last night because of the tropical storm. Everything just sucks...my pig can't even make me feel better anymore.

[Horus]

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that I care more about what "the party" or even "the public" feels than about what the facts and the evidence show. Sadly for you, that is not now, has not ever been, and never will be the case.

As I thought I made pretty clear, BOTH the raving right-wing lunatics who think horse dewormer is a magic cure AND the smug lefties who seem to think that masks are a magic cure are simply dead wrong. And I won't pretend otherwise no matter how convenient or not it is to any particular narrative.

Why do you constantly feel the need to strawman the left in your COVID posts?  It's very telling.

Nobody thinks masks are a "magic cure."  That is something you made up so you could dunk on us.
 But they are scientifically proven to reduce the risk of transmission.  And it's 100% common sense that they would function in this way since they reduce particles expelled forward from the mouth.

You are in no way, shape or form part of the left lol.

[Florida Man for Crime]

If that mattered, the fatality rate before the vaccine rollout would have been higher in the US rather than the UK, it was the other way around. The US population is a bit younger, but I'm not sure if the difference was meaningful.

Earlier in the pandemic, the UK had less testing per capita than the USA (not at the very beginning, but in e.g. late 2020). So if you are looking at CFRs, the ratio of deaths to reported cases, that difference may be attributable to a lower proportion of cases being reported at that time in the UK than in the USA.

[Florida Man for Crime]

Nevertheless, I can see a justification for masks as long as we are masking vaccinated adults.  But once a kid is vaccinated, there is really no justification for masks at all.  The risk is just so infinitesimal as to not merit any significant intervention.

What are you talking about? There is plenty of justification for masks even when kids are vaccinated. Namely, if the vaccinated kids get sick, they can still pass on the virus and infect other people such as their parents and their teachers, even if the virus does nothing to the kids themselves. And then those parents and teachers will also infect other people in the general public etc. And this will lead to a lot more deaths and cases of long COVID over time.

Regarding the rest of your post, yes, it would be nice if the FDA could move quicker on getting vaccination going for kids. Basically the way the CDC and FDA have been acting throughout the pandemic is to require the usual standards of evidence before they say something is true. That has made them in a number of instances slow to react to new information. It has some benefits, however, because if for example FDA says that the vaccine is safe for kids but then it turns out not to be, that would only increase public distrust and anti-vax sentiment over the long run.

[Calthrina950]

Nevertheless, I can see a justification for masks as long as we are masking vaccinated adults.  But once a kid is vaccinated, there is really no justification for masks at all.  The risk is just so infinitesimal as to not merit any significant intervention.

What are you talking about? There is plenty of justification for masks even when kids are vaccinated. Namely, if the vaccinated kids get sick, they can still pass on the virus and infect other people such as their parents and their teachers, even if the virus does nothing to the kids themselves. And then those parents and teachers will also infect other people in the general public etc. And this will lead to a lot more deaths and cases of long COVID over time.

Regarding the rest of your post, yes, it would be nice if the FDA could move quicker on getting vaccination going for kids. Basically the way the CDC and FDA have been acting throughout the pandemic is to require the usual standards of evidence before they say something is true. That has made them in a number of instances slow to react to new information. It has some benefits, however, because if for example FDA says that the vaccine is safe for kids but then it turns out not to be, that would only increase public distrust and anti-vax sentiment over the long run.

Are you saying then, that school mask mandates should become permanent? That mask mandates for transit and for many public spaces should become permanent? I've asked you this before, but still haven't been entirely clear about what you mean. If we are now to say that masks are permanent and should be embraced as a facet of society, that would be a depressing turn from what we've had before.

[compucomp]

At this point I unironically believe that mask mandates are oppressive. Simply because they target even those who are fully vaccinated and have done everything right, whereas most of those who refuse to get vaccinated are also not going to wear masks anyway. That's a textbook form of collective punishment as far as I'm concerned. Literally the entire thing is now a performative stunt among people who already are effectively immune from the virus (or its worst effects at least) trying to show off to each other how woke and enlightened they are because they cover their faces with a placebo cloth. While the only people who might possibly benefit from it shun and scoff at it. It's incredibly bizarre to me, and alienates me even farther from "my side" (the left) than I already was. And I can't imagine I'm alone in that.

My philosophy about this whole thing now is simple:

1. Let those who insist on dying die. Don't try to interfere with the will of Darwin!

2. Let those of us who long ago made the decision to take the f--king shot and get on with our lives actually do so, rather than continue to try in vain to "protect" those who clearly and adamantly do not want to be "protected."

3. Don't worry about the children, as even an unvaccinated child is still exponentially less likely to die from COVID than a vaccinated middle aged adult, who himself has a smaller risk of dying from COVID than from a bee sting.

The entire thing at this point strikes me now less as a public health concern and more as some bizarre religious ritual crossed with a dick measuring contest. Just STOP. Just STOP already. Leave me alone, leave the kids alone, leave EVERYONE alone. If they are stupid enough to expose themselves to the virus unvaccinated, LET THEM! That is THEIR choice and THEIR problem! Ours is NOT an authoritarian country like China, or at least it's not supposed to be.

Fact of the matter is COVID-19 can now safely be considered a nuisance virus like the flu that CAN be deadly to those who refuse to take the vaccine against it, but ultimately is basically a complete non-threat to those who do and isn't even likely at all to kill most of those who don't. We'll probably be stuck with it forever, like the flu, but we don't HAVE to be stuck with ridiculous Draconian measures to "stop" it forever unless we choose to. These tactics will never actually successfully purge the thing from the Earth but they can and will anger many reasonable people who might otherwise sympathize with the side of the political aisle that is pushing them.

I mean seriously, some of the takes I'm seeing from Twitter and elsewhere seem to be logically implying that any risk whatsoever in life, no matter how minute, is absolutely unacceptable and anyone who believes otherwise is a literal murderer. By this "logic," driving a car is murder, as it is now far, far, far, far, infinite number of FARs more likely to kill a vaccinated adult or child than COVID.

I say the loons who unironically believe we all still need masks can go ahead and lock themselves in bubbles for the rest of their lives and the rest of us can laugh at them as they argue with George Costanza about the correct spelling of "the Moops." But they have to f--k off and leave the rest of us who are not severely psychologically crippled alone to live our lives!

This post is just wrong on several counts:

1. At this point, nobody is safe from COVID. It's abundantly clear by now that with Delta, breakthrough cases are not rare events at all, and may even be stretching to call them uncommon. There's still protection against severe disease but new data show that is waning; this is why there is now a push for booster shots.

2. Masks are no "placebo", they have repeatedly proven effective at stopping respiratory disease transmission.

3. Masks are a zero cost mitigation measure, a surgical mask costs 5-10c apiece. They don't harm the economy at all, a mask doesn't prevent one from doing anything once the usual exceptions for bars and restaurants are carved out.

If that doesn't convince you, how about this: mask mandates are supported by a majority of the public (source: https://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/documents/monmouthpoll_us_080221.pdf/), including 85% of Democrats. Do you really want to associate yourself with the Trumpist pro-COVID forces, who stormed the Capitol, believe the vaccine is a conspiracy for Bill Gates to mind control the world, and take horse dewormer for COVID? No? Then get in line with your party.

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that I care more about what "the party" or even "the public" feels than about what the facts and the evidence show. Sadly for you, that is not now, has not ever been, and never will be the case.

As I thought I made pretty clear, BOTH the raving right-wing lunatics who think horse dewormer is a magic cure AND the smug lefties who seem to think that masks are a magic cure are simply dead wrong. And I won't pretend otherwise no matter how convenient or not it is to any particular narrative.

Since you're on this forum, you should know all about and be a big believer in political polarization. Finally it's time to put it to good use. You're either on the side of the Trumpist pro-COVID forces, or you're on the side that supports mask mandates. Pick one.

[Horus]

At this point I unironically believe that mask mandates are oppressive. Simply because they target even those who are fully vaccinated and have done everything right, whereas most of those who refuse to get vaccinated are also not going to wear masks anyway. That's a textbook form of collective punishment as far as I'm concerned. Literally the entire thing is now a performative stunt among people who already are effectively immune from the virus (or its worst effects at least) trying to show off to each other how woke and enlightened they are because they cover their faces with a placebo cloth. While the only people who might possibly benefit from it shun and scoff at it. It's incredibly bizarre to me, and alienates me even farther from "my side" (the left) than I already was. And I can't imagine I'm alone in that.

My philosophy about this whole thing now is simple:

1. Let those who insist on dying die. Don't try to interfere with the will of Darwin!

2. Let those of us who long ago made the decision to take the f--king shot and get on with our lives actually do so, rather than continue to try in vain to "protect" those who clearly and adamantly do not want to be "protected."

3. Don't worry about the children, as even an unvaccinated child is still exponentially less likely to die from COVID than a vaccinated middle aged adult, who himself has a smaller risk of dying from COVID than from a bee sting.

The entire thing at this point strikes me now less as a public health concern and more as some bizarre religious ritual crossed with a dick measuring contest. Just STOP. Just STOP already. Leave me alone, leave the kids alone, leave EVERYONE alone. If they are stupid enough to expose themselves to the virus unvaccinated, LET THEM! That is THEIR choice and THEIR problem! Ours is NOT an authoritarian country like China, or at least it's not supposed to be.

Fact of the matter is COVID-19 can now safely be considered a nuisance virus like the flu that CAN be deadly to those who refuse to take the vaccine against it, but ultimately is basically a complete non-threat to those who do and isn't even likely at all to kill most of those who don't. We'll probably be stuck with it forever, like the flu, but we don't HAVE to be stuck with ridiculous Draconian measures to "stop" it forever unless we choose to. These tactics will never actually successfully purge the thing from the Earth but they can and will anger many reasonable people who might otherwise sympathize with the side of the political aisle that is pushing them.

I mean seriously, some of the takes I'm seeing from Twitter and elsewhere seem to be logically implying that any risk whatsoever in life, no matter how minute, is absolutely unacceptable and anyone who believes otherwise is a literal murderer. By this "logic," driving a car is murder, as it is now far, far, far, far, infinite number of FARs more likely to kill a vaccinated adult or child than COVID.

I say the loons who unironically believe we all still need masks can go ahead and lock themselves in bubbles for the rest of their lives and the rest of us can laugh at them as they argue with George Costanza about the correct spelling of "the Moops." But they have to f--k off and leave the rest of us who are not severely psychologically crippled alone to live our lives!

This post is just wrong on several counts:

1. At this point, nobody is safe from COVID. It's abundantly clear by now that with Delta, breakthrough cases are not rare events at all, and may even be stretching to call them uncommon. There's still protection against severe disease but new data show that is waning; this is why there is now a push for booster shots.

2. Masks are no "placebo", they have repeatedly proven effective at stopping respiratory disease transmission.

3. Masks are a zero cost mitigation measure, a surgical mask costs 5-10c apiece. They don't harm the economy at all, a mask doesn't prevent one from doing anything once the usual exceptions for bars and restaurants are carved out.

If that doesn't convince you, how about this: mask mandates are supported by a majority of the public (source: https://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/documents/monmouthpoll_us_080221.pdf/), including 85% of Democrats. Do you really want to associate yourself with the Trumpist pro-COVID forces, who stormed the Capitol, believe the vaccine is a conspiracy for Bill Gates to mind control the world, and take horse dewormer for COVID? No? Then get in line with your party.

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that I care more about what "the party" or even "the public" feels than about what the facts and the evidence show. Sadly for you, that is not now, has not ever been, and never will be the case.

As I thought I made pretty clear, BOTH the raving right-wing lunatics who think horse dewormer is a magic cure AND the smug lefties who seem to think that masks are a magic cure are simply dead wrong. And I won't pretend otherwise no matter how convenient or not it is to any particular narrative.

Since you're on this forum, you should know all about and be a big believer in political polarization. Finally it's time to put it to good use. You're either on the side of the Trumpist pro-COVID forces, or you're on the side that supports mask mandates. Pick one.

Political polarization is not a good thing, in fact it is often what tears nations apart. The fact that you're trying to encourage it just makes your loyalties even clearer.

[Pericles]

If that mattered, the fatality rate before the vaccine rollout would have been higher in the US rather than the UK, it was the other way around. The US population is a bit younger, but I'm not sure if the difference was meaningful.

Earlier in the pandemic, the UK had less testing per capita than the USA (not at the very beginning, but in e.g. late 2020). So if you are looking at CFRs, the ratio of deaths to reported cases, that difference may be attributable to a lower proportion of cases being reported at that time in the UK than in the USA.

I was only looking at January 2021 (though late 2020 they were testing at the same levels). It turns out the UK testing rate was slightly higher, but not enough for that to explain their deaths being double what the US was suffering. Maybe the UK didn't treat their patients well enough or maybe their population, or at least those infected, were more vulnerable.

[Florida Man for Crime]

Are you saying then, that school mask mandates should become permanent?

No, I never said that. I simply said that children getting infected and spreading the virus will result in a lot more deaths and long COVID etc. That is true right now while we are going through this Delta wave, but there is no particular reason to think it will always be true in the future. It should be less the case in the future due to (hopefully) higher vaccination rates in addition to more widespread natural immunity from previous infections.

It is true it might also be the case at some other times in the future - for example if we get another variant that is even more deadly than Delta and is vaccine resistant, then the choice would at that point either be to accept a lot more deaths, or to adopt mitigation measures such as masks to limit the damage. But that is hypothetical which hopefully won't come to pass.

But if it does come to pass, if we are wise then we should be prepared for it.

[Calthrina950]

Are you saying then, that school mask mandates should become permanent?

No, I never said that. I simply said that children getting infected and spreading the virus will result in a lot more deaths and long COVID etc. That is true right now while we are going through this Delta wave, but there is no particular reason to think it will always be true in the future. It should be less the case in the future due to (hopefully) higher vaccination rates in addition to more widespread natural immunity from previous infections.

It is true it might also be the case at some other times in the future - for example if we get another variant that is even more deadly than Delta and is vaccine resistant, then the choice would at that point either be to accept a lot more deaths, or to adopt mitigation measures such as masks to limit the damage. But that is hypothetical which hopefully won't come to pass.

But if it does come to pass, if we are wise then we should be prepared for it.

So you're advocating for something akin to what Asian countries have done-that masks be adopted when the need arises for them, such as with a future pandemic or a recurrence of this virus? If so, that would be more tolerable, although public health officials would need to make the expectations and guidelines more explicit and more clear than they have during this current pandemic. At any rate, I have said before that mask mandates will be a part of life at least until the end of this year, and probably into the middle of next year. Apparently, the vaccine probably won't be approved for schoolchildren ages 12 and under until at least that point.

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

I simply said that children getting infected and spreading the virus will result in a lot more deaths and long COVID etc.

False.

It is difficult to pinpoint exactly how much spread occurred on campuses. But throughout the pandemic, government studies showed that infection rates in schools did not exceed those in the community at large, Dr. Ladhani said. In schools that experienced multiple virus cases, he added, there were often “multiple introductions” — meaning that infections were likely acquired outside the building

+

if parents are vaccinated, covid is as dangerous as regular flue, if not — they likely get it anyway (yeah, Delta is that transmittable, herd immunity (vaccines or "natural) should be probably around ~90% to totally stop it).

[Florida Man for Crime]

So, my 87 year old grandpa, residing in a Florida assisted living home has now tested positive for COVID. Thankfully he is fully vaccinated, so I expect him to be okay in the end. But the poor guy is being taken two hours away to Jacksonville to be sequestered with other COVID positive seniors for at least two weeks. It's still not something that should be happening anymore. Furthermore; my aunt, dad, and grandma all had to get tested and quarantine until they get their results.

I've theorized that my grandpa got the virus from a worker at the home. Thanks, DeSuckass!
I've always, notoriously, loathed him; but now it's personal with me. F*** this incompetent scumbag!

As if I needed more to be angry about lately...I seriously feel like I'm losing my mind. I had a nice break from it for a short time, but we're right back to this country feeling like an apocalyptic wasteland to me...literally. People abandoned their cars on major highways here last night because of the tropical storm. Everything just sucks...my pig can't even make me feel better anymore.

Hopefully he will be ok, and likely he will be. Hang in there in the meantime.

[Dr. Arch]

The updated numbers for COVID-19 in the U.S. are in for 8/25-9/1/2021 per: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

From March 2020 to mid-July 2021, I kept track of COVID-19 numbers daily. Now that there's a light at the end of the tunnel and states are staggering their daily updates, I am switching to a mid-week to mid-week model (Thursday to Wednesday).

Wednesdays are ideal for weekly updates since holidays don't usually fall in the middle of the week, and most states would have reported some update by that day each week.

New Legend:

Δ Change: Comparisons of Weekly Growth or Decline of COVID-19 Spread/Deaths

Σ Increase: A week's contribution to overall percentage growth of COVID-19 cases/deaths.

• IE:What's the overall change in the total?

You may access the archive of daily reports below, with the last daily update at the end, which was on 7/6/2021.

Day-to-Day Archive from 3/26/2020-7/6/2021
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6/16-6/22: <Baseline Week>

• Cases: 34,433,696
• Deaths: 617,864

6/23-6/30:

• Cases: 34,544,094 (+110,398 | Σ Increase: ↑0.32%)
• Deaths: 620,237 (+2,373 | Σ Increase: ↑0.38%)

7/1-7/7:

• Cases: 34,641,189 (+97,095 | ΔW Change: ↓12.05% | Σ Increase: ↑0.28%)
• Deaths: 621,851 (+1,614 | ΔW Change: ↓31.98% | Σ Increase: ↑0.26%)

7/8-7/14:

• Cases: 34,848,068 (+206,879 | ΔW Change: ↑113.07% | Σ Increase: ↑0.60%)
• Deaths: 623,838 (+1,987 | ΔW Change: ↑23.11% | Σ Increase: ↑0.32%)

7/15-7/21:

• Cases: 35,146,476 (+298,408 | ΔW Change: ↑44.24% | Σ Increase: ↑0.86%)
• Deaths: 625,808 (+1,970 | ΔW Change: ↓0.86% | Σ Increase: ↑0.32%)

7/22-7/28:

• Cases: 35,487,348 (+340,872 | ΔW Change: ↑14.23% | Σ Increase: ↑0.97%)
• Deaths: 628,098 (+2,290 | ΔW Change: ↑16.24% | Σ Increase: ↑0.37%)

7/29-8/4:

• Cases: 36,176,471 (+689,123 | ΔW Change: ↑102.17% | Σ Increase: ↑1.94%)
• Deaths: 631,299 (+3,201 | ΔW Change: ↑39.78% | Σ Increase: ↑0.51%)

8/5-8/11:

• Cases: 37,027,466 (+850,995 | ΔW Change: ↑23.49% | Σ Increase: ↑2.35%)
• Deaths: 635,629 (+4,330 | ΔW Change: ↑35.27% | Σ Increase: ↑0.69%)

8/12-8/18:

• Cases: 38,072,249 (+1,044,783 | ΔW Change: ↑22.77% | Σ Increase: ↑2.82%)
• Deaths: 641,338 (+5,709 | ΔW Change: ↑31.85% | Σ Increase: ↑0.90%)

8/19-8/25: <Last Week>

• Cases: 39,155,175 (+1,082,926 | ΔW Change: ↑3.65% | Σ Increase: ↑2.84%)
• Deaths: 649,666 (+8,328 | ΔW Change: ↑45.87% | Σ Increase: ↑1.30%)

8/26-9/1: <This Week>

• Cases: 40,335,450 (+1,180,275 | ΔW Change: ↑8.99% | Σ Increase: ↑3.01%)
• Deaths: 661,288 (+11,622 | ΔW Change: ↑39.55% | Σ Increase: ↑1.79%)

[Tintrlvr]

I simply said that children getting infected and spreading the virus will result in a lot more deaths and long COVID etc.

False.

It is difficult to pinpoint exactly how much spread occurred on campuses. But throughout the pandemic, government studies showed that infection rates in schools did not exceed those in the community at large, Dr. Ladhani said. In schools that experienced multiple virus cases, he added, there were often “multiple introductions” — meaning that infections were likely acquired outside the building

+

if parents are vaccinated, covid is as dangerous as regular flue, if not — they likely get it anyway (yeah, Delta is that transmittable, herd immunity (vaccines or "natural) should be probably around ~90% to totally stop it).

It may be true that transmission rates in schools were no different from the general population before vaccines were available. But that datapoint is completely meaningless now, when schools are by far the likeliest gathering place for large numbers of entirely unvaccinated people (children). Clearly schools are a major transmission risk currently. The solution isn't to keep schools closed - it's to hurry up and approve and mandate vaccines for all school-aged children.