COVID-19 Megathread 6: Return of the Omicron

[Calthrina950]

Today @ North Paulding High School

Not all of the students are wearing masks. I assume that North Paulding requires masks for teachers and staff, but that they are optional for students. And these are high school students nonetheless, who should be mature enough to be able to wear them throughout the day. If 5-year old Little Johnny can wear one, then all of these 17 or 18-year olds can.

[Calthrina950]

https://twitter.com/GovMikeDeWine/status/1291412472436592650

Holy crap

DeWine is now the second Governor to contract coronavirus, following Kevin Stitt of Oklahoma. This nefarious disease knows no boundaries, and who knows how many more individuals, both prominent and not so prominent, will contract it between now and November.

[Calthrina950]

Mike DeWine has tested negative for coronavirus in the more accurate tests:

https://twitter.com/GovMikeDeWine/status/1291548735772798977

May have been a false positive with the rapid tests.

Glad to hear this!

[Calthrina950]

https://twitter.com/ChrisJoseWSB/status/1292564766100279296

What on earth is the point of shutting down for *two* days?  Like, regardless of my personal views, I can at least comprehend arguments for not shutting down at all or shutting down for a few weeks, but what could possibly be accomplished by a two day shutdown?

From very letter you copied (learn to red):

On Monday and Tuesday, the school will be thoroughly cleaned and disinfected, and the district will consult with the Department of Public Health to assess the environment and determine if there are any additional close contacts for confirmed cases who have not already been identified.

My big worry is that anti-vaxxism is going to prohibit people from getting this vaccine even if they want it.

What do you two think about that high school in Georgia which has had an outbreak in coronavirus cases? Will we see similar outbreaks at other schools? And does it provide justification to those who do not think we are ready to resume in-person instruction this fall?

[Calthrina950]

Seriously?  I see plenty of people (adults, teens, younger kids) wearing masks the whole time they're grocery shopping when I'm there, and for much longer than 5 minutes.

I don't think people congregate for very long in grocery stores like they did before the pandemic.

I'd have to back up GeorgiaModerate's claim. As I've noted previously, 85-90% of customers at my workplace have been wearing masks since Governor Polis' mask mandate took effect nearly a month ago. Moreover, my workplace (Home Depot) made masks mandatory at all of their stores nationwide late last month, a week or so after Polis' order. I've also seen virtually unanimous compliance at the closest grocery store to me, King Soopers (owned by Kroger) in the same time frame as well. The vast majority of Americans have adapted to wearing masks, and will continue to do so for as long as it is necessary.

[Calthrina950]

I'd have to back up GeorgiaModerate's claim. As I've noted previously, 85-90% of customers at my workplace have been wearing masks since Governor Polis's mask mandate took effect nearly a month ago. Moreover, my workplace (Home Depot) made masks mandatory at all of their stores nationwide late last month, a week or so after Polis' order. I've also seen virtually unanimous compliance at the closest grocery store to me, King Soopers (owned by Kroger) in the same time frame as well. The vast majority of Americans have adapted to wearing masks, and will continue to do so for as long as it is necessary.

My observation is that compliance isn't as high, and those who do comply just don't spend much time in the store. They buy a couple things and leave as soon as possible.

You do have a point there. It is impossible to obtain 100% compliance to a mask mandate. I noted in my prior post that 85-90% of customers are wearing masks (and of course, all employees). However, that still leaves you with about 10-15% of customers who do not wear masks. My store's management has made it clear to us that we should not confront or turn away maskless customers, because they don't want us to jeopardize our safety.

I'm sure you aware of the numerous instances in which people refused to wear a mask, and things turned violent. Nevertheless, our County's Coroner had said back in June (before Polis' mask mandate was issued), that at least 90% of us needed to be wearing masks in public to get the virus under control, and those numbers have now been obtained thanks to Polis' mandate. Cases in Colorado have also plateaued over the past month, and the mask mandate has been named as one of the contributing factors to this.

[Calthrina950]

No further stimulus is coming from Congress:

https://twitter.com/BresPolitico/status/1292871439243268098

Many Americans are going to experience significant financial distress over the next three months because of Congress' (and Trump's) inability to act.

[Calthrina950]

No further stimulus is coming from Congress:

https://twitter.com/BresPolitico/status/1292871439243268098

Many Americans are going to experience significant financial distress over the next three months because of Congress' (and Trump's) the Republican Party's inability to act.

Ftfy. Democrats had this sorted months ago, but Republicans were too incompetent and evil to do the easy, necessary thing.

If you want to blame the Republican Party for this whole situation, that's fine. I don't think what I said makes much of a difference.

[Calthrina950]

I think it was possible to keep schools reopened even if wasn't the greatest idea, However doing it with 0 restrictions was stupid.

The main changes that really need to be made in schools is better ventilation and better access to sinks. I'm the biggest germaphobe in the world, but I don't think kids need to go to school in a hazmat suit.

There's no way schools will be safe when community transmission is so widespread. Until new case numbers are pushed down to a low level, most activities will be too risky.

Are you suggesting that all school districts should consider going fully online for the fall semester? I am only beginning to imagine the consequences that will have for many families and students across the country. Of course, opening schools "normally" and in-person is fraught with its own difficulties, so we have a truly tough situation here.

[Calthrina950]

I had an interesting experience at my job today. I had a customer, who was wearing an anti-Trump shirt, come up to my lane, and complain about maskless customers in the store (of which there were several). She asked if there was any way to report such customers, mentioning Polis' statewide mask mandate. I explained to her my store's policy-that we couldn't deny service to or turn away maskless customers, and told her how the local law enforcement in El Paso County would only respond to tresspassing, not mask violation calls. Fortunately, she was understanding, but said it was a shame that we couldn't, and openly said that the maskless people were "Trump supporters." I just politely nodded and finished her transaction.

The irony of course, is that she's correct. However, many of the Trump supporters are wearing masks or facial coverings, as I've noted previously-I've seen a few wearing "Trump 2020" masks in the store. Another irony is that the very next customer after her, that I dealt with, was maskless (I had two others during the course of the day, and one who had their mask pulled down). Last Friday, Polis extended his mask mandate by another month, so it now expires on September 14. Nevertheless, 90% of people are continuing to obey the order.


 

[Calthrina950]

Fortunately, she was understanding, but said it was a shame that we couldn't, and openly said that the maskless people were "Trump supporters."

They're not. I know firsthand they're not all Trumpers. I was at a local convenience store the other day, and everyone was maskless - despite a statewide order and store chain policy.

But the clerk said the store does not enforce the mask policy because a Walmart customer shot an employee who reminded them to wear a mask. I can't condone violence like this, regardless of whether we think the mask policy is a good idea. I am beyond furious at the government's poor handling of this pandemic, but shooting store employees isn't how we fight back.

You're right; not all of the maskless are Trump supporters. And as I noted in my post, most Trump supporters who come through my store (and it is a considerable number of them, given that I live in heavily Republican El Paso County), are obeying Polis' mask mandate and donning masks or facial coverings. But I also wouldn't be surprised if the vast majority of the maskless in my area are Trump supporters. I saw one person wearing a Trump shirt last week who was maskless.

And the incident you note is exactly why my store forbids us from denying service to maskless customers, or turning them away. We've been enjoined to politely remind customers to wear one, but no one in the store bothers to do so. As I've noted before, virtually all of the employees at my store were not wearing masks until they were made mandatory by the Governor for employees back in April, and many of them went about maskless while not on the clock until he issued his mandate for the general public last month.

[Calthrina950]

https://twitter.com/yascha_mounk/status/1297226437905260545?s=21

I fear that if students can't socialize, the resulting anxiety and depression will be far more dangerous than the functionally 0% death rate 21 year olds have from COVID. 

I'm also wary of the financial impact which the reversion to online learning will have for many students. Tuition costs remain the same regardless of format, and I don't think online education provides the same utility as in-person instruction. What kind of lasting effects will the pandemic have on college enrollment? And might it encourage prospective students to consider alternatives?

[Calthrina950]

https://twitter.com/yascha_mounk/status/1297226437905260545?s=21

I fear that if students can't socialize, the resulting anxiety and depression will be far more dangerous than the functionally 0% death rate 21 year olds have from COVID. 

I'm also wary of the financial impact which the reversion to online learning will have for many students. Tuition costs remain the same regardless of format, and I don't think online education provides the same utility as in-person instruction. What kind of lasting effects will the pandemic have on college enrollment? And might it encourage prospective students to consider alternatives?

Considering the cost, college as it's been known for a long time should really have started to have been rethought some years ago. Maybe the track for many should be a 3-year program instead. Obviously, some majors would have a longer program and some would go on to post-grad. For many people, the 4-year Bachelor's is nothing more than a piece of paper saying they went to college. They're just overqualified for flipping burgers and under a mountain of debt. I realize that's getting a little side-tracked from the issue at hand.

In terms of the actual education provided, many general education classes can easily be done online. I'm thinking classes like your basic English and whatever starting math you get placed in. But you raise a good point about the cost. Why would you want to pay a premium for an online general education class when you can pay much less for the same basic thing at a community college (which tend to be directly transferable, at least to state colleges)? That's something you could ask already though, which would lead back to my first question and the one you got me to ask. That doesn't mean they're questions that shouldn't be asked, however.

I certainly agree with you here, being a recent college graduate myself (having graduated back in May). Thanks to the scholarships that I had, I'm lucky that I don't have student debt, but I'm uncertain about my career prospects at this juncture. And I've become convinced that many of the classes which I took in college were a waste of my time and attention, and I would have been better acquitted by taking classes that would have been more relevant, and of greater utility to me. Obviously, the pandemic has worsened the situation for many students, who are facing, or will be facing, the same problems that I did. Many students, as you are probably aware, are taking a gap year, so that they can resume their education when all of this nonsense has finally settled down.

[Calthrina950]

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-08-22/coronavirus-millennials-are-suffering-an-epidemic-of-depression
Andreas Kluth - August 22, 2020, 1:00 AM EDT

"As Covid-19 spreads, so do mental-health problems, especially among Gen Z and Millennials. A lot of this has to do with uncertainty."

Summary:

• In the US, the national rate of anxiety tripled in the second quarter of 2020 compared to the same period in 2019 (from 8.1% to 25.5%), and depression almost quadrupled (from 6.5% to 24.3%).
• The number of 18-39 year olds suffering from moderate to severe depression in the U.K. has nearly tripled to 31%.
• "Older adults had already built their lives before the pandemic — with routines, structures, careers and relationships to fall back on. The young had not, and were just embarking on that adventure when Covid-19 struck."
• "Replacing in-person, tactile and pheromonal interactions with screens and apps just doesn’t cut it. Biologically, we’re still like other primates, who need to groom and be groomed to lower cortisol levels and feel well."
• "Unprecedented uncertainty" that cuts off all ability to plan is more difficult on the young, many of whom have dropped out of higher education, who don't know whether their programs are still worth the tuition that they continue to pay, or who can't fund their education at all because they don't know when their families will have an income again.
• Shortages of mental health professionals and the inability to schedule in-person visits exacerbate all of these problems.

This pandemic is going to have an effect on the younger generations that will last for decades, to say nothing of the economic and other effects which it has wrought. Or at the very least, the response to this pandemic will. I cannot wait for 2020 to end, as this has been a horrendous year.

[Calthrina950]

Just saying more retail workers have died from anti mask people shooting them down than have people died from covid 19...

Your overall claim isn't true, but this part of it is why my workplace has told us not to confront or deny service to those customers who refuse to wear a mask-to avoid violent confrontations that would put us in jeopardy.

[Calthrina950]

at this point, it's vaccine or bust for america

What if there is no vaccine? That remains a possibility, although I think it is an unlikely one at this point. The restrictions we are seeing now cannot continue indefinitely.

[Calthrina950]

What if there is no vaccine? That remains a possibility, although I think it is an unlikely one at this point. The restrictions we are seeing now cannot continue indefinitely.

I think some of our public officials actually would continue them indefinitely - forever if they could. Even if covid is eradicated, I think they'd try to continue some of them. Just because they can.

I don't mean this unkindly, but that is verging on paranoia.

It seems like a not insignificant number of people possess the same fears. We're all aware of how suicides, depression, and general anxiety have been exacerbated because of the pandemic and the responses conducted to it. I do fear that there will be a deep and lasting psychological impact on many because of what they've experienced this year.

[Calthrina950]

Didn't Disney say they might continue to require masks at their parks even after a vaccine? I can't find a source, I just remember that.

I haven't heard about this, and hopefully it is not true. I can't wait for the day when masks will finally be gone. Although they've been a necessary measure and have been effective in controlling case growth, they do create a sense of dystopia and dread when going about in public, and are constant, daily reminders of the ongoing pandemic.

[Calthrina950]

Hi everyone. I'm at a cabin in NE WI until Monday noon, so I'll keep track of the day-to-day COVID-19 stats and update them here then.

That's fine. You have truly been doing the Lord's work by keeping us updated about the situation.

[Calthrina950]

The extent to which this country has collectively just completely given up on actually suppressing the virus is infuriating. Plateauing at 40-45K new cases per day most days is disastrous and inexcusable.

Why do you say we’ve given up?  

I see almost eveyone wearing masks virtually everywhere I go now, even outdoors.  We still have no concerts or conventions or big sporting events, and the few restaurants or bars that are open for indoor dining have tables spaced really far apart.  Schools and universities are operating at a fraction of capacity if not completely online.  

Several of these are major disruptions that we’ve been living with for 6 months, and they do seem to have slowed the spread in the vast majority of states.

Not so much outdoors, but the vast majority-over 90%-of people where I live (Colorado) are wearing masks in public, and that has been true for over a month since Polis issued his mask mandate. Just today, in fact, I had a customer comment to me on how most people seem to be obeying the mask mandate, and I agreed with their conclusion. And I had another customer before that who apologized for not wearing one, stating that they forgot it. So most people have willingly sacrificed in the name of fighting this virus, and this has been going on for half of the year at this point. It's clear that we aren't going to achieve victory on this until the magical vaccine appears, and that could still be months or even years away. It'll be something if January 2021 comes around and masks are still the broad norm.

[Calthrina950]

I had an interesting experience at my job today. I had a customer, who was wearing an anti-Trump shirt, come up to my lane, and complain about maskless customers in the store (of which there were several). She asked if there was any way to report such customers, mentioning Polis' statewide mask mandate. I explained to her my store's policy-that we couldn't deny service to or turn away maskless customers, and told her how the local law enforcement in El Paso County would only respond to tresspassing, not mask violation calls. Fortunately, she was understanding, but said it was a shame that we couldn't, and openly said that the maskless people were "Trump supporters." I just politely nodded and finished her transaction.

The irony of course, is that she's correct. However, many of the Trump supporters are wearing masks or facial coverings, as I've noted previously-I've seen a few wearing "Trump 2020" masks in the store. Another irony is that the very next customer after her, that I dealt with, was maskless (I had two others during the course of the day, and one who had their mask pulled down). Last Friday, Polis extended his mask mandate by another month, so it now expires on September 14. Nevertheless, 90% of people are continuing to obey the order.


 

Adding to this, I saw another customer yesterday who was wearing a Trump hat and was maskless. However, I also saw a customer who was wearing a Trump hat and was masked. So this gives credence to both of the observations which I made here.

[Calthrina950]

I had an interesting experience at my job today. I had a customer, who was wearing an anti-Trump shirt, come up to my lane, and complain about maskless customers in the store (of which there were several). She asked if there was any way to report such customers, mentioning Polis' statewide mask mandate. I explained to her my store's policy-that we couldn't deny service to or turn away maskless customers, and told her how the local law enforcement in El Paso County would only respond to tresspassing, not mask violation calls. Fortunately, she was understanding, but said it was a shame that we couldn't, and openly said that the maskless people were "Trump supporters." I just politely nodded and finished her transaction.

The irony of course, is that she's correct. However, many of the Trump supporters are wearing masks or facial coverings, as I've noted previously-I've seen a few wearing "Trump 2020" masks in the store. Another irony is that the very next customer after her, that I dealt with, was maskless (I had two others during the course of the day, and one who had their mask pulled down). Last Friday, Polis extended his mask mandate by another month, so it now expires on September 14. Nevertheless, 90% of people are continuing to obey the order.


 

Adding to this, I saw another customer yesterday who was wearing a Trump hat and was maskless. However, I also saw another customer who was wearing a Trump heat and was masked. So this gives credence to both of the observations which I made here.

Adding to this, in Wasco, Oregon recently I saw a Trump supporter with a MAGA hat and a "China lied" mask. I also saw a gentleman come in with no mask (or any obvious political attire), and when confronted about it, said that he didn't have to wear one because he had "an exemption", although he showed no difficulty breathing or communicating whatsoever.

Interesting observations. As I noted above, at my workplace we aren't allowed to confront or turn away maskless customers, so I have not seen a scene like this. Apparently though, one of my co-workers asked a customer they were assisting why they weren't wearing a mask, and gave them the spiel (which almost everyone has heard) that "I wear my mask to protect you." The customer responded very negatively and flipped them off for it. But nevertheless, the vast majority of people everywhere it seems are wearing masks or facial coverings at this point; the last poll I saw indicated that something like 86% of Americans (including 95% of Democrats and 75% of Republicans) are doing so now. So it's been clear for months that the anti-maskers lost on the issue.

[Calthrina950]

Since May I've yet to see someone in the grocery store without a mask, and I'm in a conservative area. Granted I'm never in one for very long. But I wonder why compliance is only 80%+ in your store Calthrina.

It's actually around 90%, as I've noted previously. As you're very well aware, I too live in a solidly Republican and solidly conservative area-I've noted many times the number of customers I've seen wearing Trump gear, which has far outweighed the few customers who've worn anti-Trump or pro-BLM gear. But compliance now is significantly higher than it was before Polis' mask mandate, when the rate of mask-wearing was at around 55% or so.

[Calthrina950]

It’s such a shame. Virus truthers like Greenline, Averroes and Del Tachi have been barely affected while genuinely good people like PQG, Fuzzy, and Badger have/are suffering. This is why I tell my mother she is crazy for believing in karma.

On a more positive note, vaccine progress is accelerating rapidly. I do fully expect a vaccine to be distributed to at risk groups this year. (And that would be a remarkable scientific milestone)

And while it is true that many Americans don’t want to get a vaccine (which I’m actually fine with for now, more supply for me) We aren’t the worst.

This isn’t anything new. Vaccine-phobias tens to be more common in Eastern European countries such as Russia and Poland.

I'd have to disagree with what you say here, in part. Del Tachi revealed on another thread that both of his parents and his sister contracted the virus, and his parents apparently became sick from it. Moreover, he himself got the virus several months ago, but was asymptomatic, and didn't know that he had it until testing positive for antibodies.

[Calthrina950]

It's dropping nationwide, but in how many states is it still increasing? I think Hawaii is starting to drop a little, so are there any left outside the Midwest?

Kentucky is at sort of a plateau, but it was always one of the lowest to begin with (and accomplished this without tossing people in jail over a stay-at-home order).

I think Iowa is leveling off, and I'm not sure why it had that really bad day a few days ago. That might have been a backlog.

Being an isolated methhole that nobody wants to go to probably also has helped your state .

This is somewhat unrelated, but one thing that has continued to astound me over the past several months is how this pandemic has truly exposed the characteristics of human nature. People have responded to it in radically different ways. You have some who have been taking the virus very seriously, to the point of paranoia. I'm talking about the people who have been wearing a mask and a face shield, and those who have been wearing gloves. You have those who have been taking it seriously or semi-seriously, complying with the mask mandate and taking some precautions, but not going overboard and not allowing the virus to dominate their lives.

This is the category where the vast majority of people lie. And then you have those who have viewed the reaction to the virus as "overblown", or who have pretended that life is normal, ignoring the virus as best they can. This category includes those few who continue to go about maskless in public. When I am at my job, it's always interesting when I deal with one customer who falls into the first category, wearing a mask and gloves, and then with the next customer who is maskless and acting as if things are normal.