COVID-19 Megathread 6: Return of the Omicron

[Del Tachi]

Even if this situation turns out to be nothing in the end the damage is Done

Johnson and Johnson may have just made the vaccine hesitancy issue even worse. Now right wing conspiracy theorists online are going to use this moment to convince a lot of trump supporters to never take any vaccine including moderna

To be fair, isn't the FDA (a neutral, scientific Federal agency headed by a Biden appointee, no less) suspending use of the J&J vaccine actually a pretty good reason to be more hesitant about the rush to quick, universal vaccination?  And that's to say nothing of how much worse it would be for vaccine hesitancy for a potentially dangerous vaccine to remain on market? 

That you chalk such a reaction up to "right-wing conspiracy theory" shows zealously irrational the "pro-science" virtue signaling has gotten in certain corners, lol

Wow taking about twisiting my words

I have never been the type on here to virtue signal to anybody about science nor Have I been one of those people who wanted to just keep things locked down forever. The fact it rather you or I like it or not there is a real Vacaccine hesitancy among Trump supporters right now.

This is not something that I am just making up, nor was it something I was saying in order to show trump supporter how Pro science I am lol

The harsh truth is sadly there are people on the right who are going on social media and spreading Disinformation about these vacancies. Again, I'm not saying that to put down trump supporters nor I'm saying it to virtue signal to them about science. I'm saying it because I don't want anybody on the left or on the right to die from the horrible virus and my fear is that those conspiracy theorist are going to use this info to scare more people away from taking every vaccine not just Johnson & Johnson

"Disinformation" on social media drives a lot less vaccine hesitancy than young, otherwise healthy people not being bothered to get a vaccine for what is overwhelmingly a non-lethal disease.  If our goal is to make people more confident in the vaccine's safety and efficacy, then the FDA is absolutely making the right call.  Keeping potentially unsafe vaccines on the shelf ruins confidence in safer ones.   

People who "use" the FDA's action as a reason to be more hesitant about getting vaccinated are justified in doing such, at least in the short term.  They're taking in credible information and adjusting their behavior accordingly.  Waxing about "right-wing conspirarcy theories" is an insult to common sense. 

[Del Tachi]

Six reported cases.  In Britain, reports of blood clots from the AZ vaccine tripled after doctors knew to start looking for them.  19 people have died.

Out of about twenty million or so jabs administered. Meanwhile, over 125,000 people here have died of Covid during the past twelve months.

Exactly.

Any of these vaccine side effects are literally nothing compared to covid symptoms.  All this world wide suffering is going to make me lose my damn mind.

The issue is who's affected.  In the six cases identified in the U.S. so far and the many more from Europe, it was mostly young women without any history of serious health issues.  These aren't people at high risk from COVID, so we need to proceed with extreme caution when we hear about any vaccine reactions including fatal side effects.

From an ethical standpoint, there's also an important distinction to draw between passively contracting a naturally-occurring virus and getting sick after taking a manmade vaccine.  This becomes even more salient when so many voices are loudly calling for mandated vaccine passports and the like.

[roxas11]

Even if this situation turns out to be nothing in the end the damage is Done

Johnson and Johnson may have just made the vaccine hesitancy issue even worse. Now right wing conspiracy theorists online are going to use this moment to convince a lot of trump supporters to never take any vaccine including moderna

To be fair, isn't the FDA (a neutral, scientific Federal agency headed by a Biden appointee, no less) suspending use of the J&J vaccine actually a pretty good reason to be more hesitant about the rush to quick, universal vaccination?  And that's to say nothing of how much worse it would be for vaccine hesitancy for a potentially dangerous vaccine to remain on market?  

That you chalk such a reaction up to "right-wing conspiracy theory" shows zealously irrational the "pro-science" virtue signaling has gotten in certain corners, lol

Wow taking about twisiting my words

I have never been the type on here to virtue signal to anybody about science nor Have I been one of those people who wanted to just keep things locked down forever. The fact it rather you or I like it or not there is a real Vacaccine hesitancy among Trump supporters right now.

This is not something that I am just making up, nor was it something I was saying in order to show trump supporter how Pro science I am lol

The harsh truth is sadly there are people on the right who are going on social media and spreading Disinformation about these vacancies. Again, I'm not saying that to put down trump supporters nor I'm saying it to virtue signal to them about science. I'm saying it because I don't want anybody on the left or on the right to die from the horrible virus and my fear is that those conspiracy theorist are going to use this info to scare more people away from taking every vaccine not just Johnson & Johnson

"Disinformation" on social media drives a lot less vaccine hesitancy than young, otherwise healthy people not being bothered to get a vaccine for what is overwhelmingly a non-lethal disease.  If our goal is to make people more confident in the vaccine's safety and efficacy, then the FDA is absolutely making the right call.  Keeping potentially unsafe vaccines on the shelf ruins confidence in safer ones.  

People who "use" the FDA's action as a reason to be more hesitant about getting vaccinated are justified in doing such, at least in the short term.  They're taking in credible information and adjusting their behavior accordingly. Waxing about "right-wing conspirarcy theories" is an insult to common sense.  

But we can't just ignore the role that some Right-wing media figures on social media are playing when it comes to spreading fear among Trump supporters

Now you are correct that maybe I could have used a better way to express my concern Because taking what was perceived as a cheap shot against trump supporters was never my intention and sorry if it came off that way.

but I do stand by my overall point that some media figures on social media will use the News about Johnson & Johnson to spread fear about vaccines among trump supporters and even among those who may not have even supported trump or the GOP  

[Del Tachi]

We need to stop with the shutdown talk. 

The vulnerable population has had ample opportunity to get vaccinated at this point.  Why would you punish those who have done the responsible thing and gotten vaccinated and who should now be able to behave normally with almost no risk because a bunch of crazy people refuse to believe in science? 

Compulsory vaccination would be much less harmful than shutdowns and no one seems to be even willing to consider it.

I don't think mandatory vaccinations are a good idea, but I am in favor of incentives to those getting vaccinated and "discriminating" against those who are unwilling.

-If you want your child to attend public schools, the entire family should have to be vaccinated.
-To enter ANY place of business, you must present a vaccination card (likewise to operate any business).  *If you aren't vaccinated and need groceries, your only option is contact-less instacart and/or clicklist.
-To board a plane or boat must require proof of vaccination.
-To cross state lines must present a vaccination card.
-Jail sentences and/or hefty fines for anyone refusing to wear a mask while in public places...while the vaccination card allows you to go on about your day.

I'm all about allowing someone the freedom to choose between vaccination or not, and I'm also all about declining service/certain freedoms if you don't get vaccinated.

This is the most insane post I've seen in this thread in a while, lol

Firstly, there is absolutely zero way to enforce a lot of this.  A requirement that people be vaccinated is only as good as a way of ensuring they are.  No such way exists, and the CDC vaccination cards are not designed to be secure or used as a means of personal identification*

Secondly, preventing the movement of goods and people between the United States is pretty much the end of having a federal system of government.  Joe Biden and his bureaucrats would become laughably irrelevant in a system where state borders become harder than the Rio Grande.   

* - Once again, it's head-spinning to hear "liberals" talk about everyone needing to carry proof of ID/vaccination with them to go grocery shopping but then hearing them insist that requiring ID to vote is "racist" lol   

[Holy Unifying Centrist]

 

* - Once again, it's head-spinning to hear "liberals" talk about everyone needing to carry proof of ID/vaccination with them to go grocery shopping but then hearing them insist that requiring ID to vote is "racist" lol  

These people are nuts. I'm tired of these clowns trying to regulate how I live my life. They can go f*** off. I'm eventually going to get vaccinated but no way in hell am I accepting having to show my proof of being vaccinated wherever I go.

Why can't these people just play The Sims if they want to control people?

[Hammy]

Strongly oppose pausing J&J vaccinations. Far more people could die as a consequence of not getting their shot. It's out of question the vaccine prevents pretty much 100% of deaths from COVID, which is far, far more than might die from thrombisis. It's not even proven J&J is the cause of said complications.

The pausing mostly because these were not listed as potential side effects--a big no-no on getting approval for any vaccine, drug, etc.

And given the shot is only 66% effective in the first place, I doubt pulling it will have much, if any, impact on COVID spread.

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

Fauce
https://twitter.com/cspan/status/1382029523781292036
https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1382018481084887042

vs

Trump
https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/1382019197170036739


Choose your fighter!

[Person Man]

On one hand, the JJ vaccine wasn’t really that good but it was convienient.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

For the AstraZeneca vaccine, it similarly was just a few sporadic cases that were identified. Big whoop. But once government regulators and scientists started to look into the issue, the number of clots identified dramatically increased.

This is not correct (the number of potential cases went from beyond minuscule to, well, beyond minuscule: even on the worst estimates we are talking of literally a million-to-one chance of death), please do not spread misinformation about vaccines on this forum.

[Zaybay]

For the AstraZeneca vaccine, it similarly was just a few sporadic cases that were identified. Big whoop. But once government regulators and scientists started to look into the issue, the number of clots identified dramatically increased.

This is not correct (the number of potential cases went from beyond minuscule to, well, beyond minuscule: even on the worst estimates we are talking of literally a million-to-one chance of death), please do not spread misinformation about vaccines on this forum.

1. As of March 22nd, there have been 62 cases of cerebral venous sinus thrombosis and 24 cases of splanchnic vein thrombosis, of which 18 were fatal. Almost all of these blood clots were discovered after it was identified that such a connection existed (investigation began after the 2nd clot). In the game of identifying side effects, this was a very dramatic increase, and it was one because authorities now knew what to look out for.

2. Though the number is minuscule and the condition rare, its still rather dangerous and so we'd want to either minimize it or 100% avoid it.

3. Depending on the person, the chance of "million-to-one" for a certain vaccine may not be worth it. That's the whole point of the review panel that J&J are undergoing and that AZ already went through.

In fact, this entire critique misses the whole point of the post and in-fact reinforces what I was getting at. Just because the numbers are small in an absolute manner does not mean that they should be completely discarded. It is important, both for the sake of public trust and for the general safety of the patients that these potential side-effects be identified. 6 blood clot cases is miniscule, yes, and a dramatic increase to 60 would still be absolutely tiny, but its very important to deem if the benefits outweigh the risks and to determine precautionary plans in the one-in-a-million chance that such a side effect manifests.

In fact, that is exactly what happened to the AZ vaccine. The vaccine was reviewed and deemed to be beneficial to every demographic group. Now the vaccine has blood clots listed as a very rare side-effect, which very likely could be the end result for J&J.

[roxas11]

Fauce
https://twitter.com/cspan/status/1382029523781292036
https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1382018481084887042

vs

Trump
https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/1382019197170036739


Choose your fighter!

Im not choosing the guy who suggested that I should drink bleach or other disinfectants in order to not get Covid lol

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

For the AstraZeneca vaccine, it similarly was just a few sporadic cases that were identified. Big whoop. But once government regulators and scientists started to look into the issue, the number of clots identified dramatically increased.

This is not correct (the number of potential cases went from beyond minuscule to, well, beyond minuscule: even on the worst estimates we are talking of literally a million-to-one chance of death), please do not spread misinformation about vaccines on this forum.

Some people are driving over 100 miles each way to get a vaccine, which has more than 1 in a million chance of death.

[compucomp]

Trump is just upset he didn't know about the FDA's decision in advance so he could tell his sons or inlaws to short J&J and buy up Moderna and BioNTech yesterday.

[emailking]

If the CDC is recommending a pause in the vaccine, that's good enough for me. They have plenty of doctors, epidemiologists, statisticians, etc. to look at the issue; and I'm sure they didn't make the decision lightly.

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

According to the Bloomberg tracker, the US has now passed the UK for the first time in total vaccines administered per capita.

[jamestroll]

Is it possible the fda will allow continued usage after its meeting?

[Alben Barkley]

Well now I’ve gotta worry if I’m gonna die for the next week or two.

Thanks J&J.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Well now I’ve gotta worry if I’m gonna die for the next week or two.

Thanks J&J.

It's still an astronomical possibility though. It's like getting struck by lightning and attacked by a shark at the same time. Don't worry too much about it.

This is certainly not what the nation's vaccine rollout needed though. Anti-vaxxers love to seize upon isolated negative effects of the vaccines and emphasize them.

[Zaybay]

Is it possible the fda will allow continued usage after its meeting?

99.99% chance yes.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

lots of canceled appts now, and there's no guarantee those people are going to be vaccinated anytime soon.  & they are not necessarily distributed randomly, but may be clustered together.

https://twitter.com/allahpundit/status/1382117696653889547?s=20

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/NikkiMcR/status/1382126620895502340

I'm not a particularly religious person, but at this point it wouldn't take much to convince me that Tucker Carlson is an agent of the Devil.

[compucomp]

I'm not a particularly religious person, but at this point it wouldn't take much to convince me that Tucker Carlson is an agent of the Devil.

If I were a Republican Party operative I'd pull Tucker aside and tell him to cut out the anti-vax nonsense. He's clearly pandering to the lowest common denominator in his audience, but it's completely not in Republican interests because

• If most Democrats will be vaccinated and most Republicans not vaccinated, then Republicans will disproportionately get sick and die from COVID.
• If Republicans embrace the vaccine, they can claim that since the vaccines were developed and rollout set up under Trump, Biden was handed the ball at the 1 yard line and he deserves little credit for the vaccine and the subsequent economic boom.

Based on his statement today Trump realizes this but Tucker seems to be doubling and tripling down on anti-vax rhetoric. He might just be a true believer in that?

[Dr. Arch]

The updated numbers for COVID-19 in the U.S. are in for 4/13 per: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

I'm keeping track of these updates daily and updating at the end of the day, whenever all states finish reporting for that day.

ΔW Change: Comparisons of Weekly Day-to-day Growth or Decline of COVID-19 Spread/Deaths.

• IE: Comparing the numbers to the same day of last week, are we flattening the curve enough?

Σ Increase: A day's contribution to overall percentage growth of COVID-19 cases/deaths.

• IE:What's the overall change in the total?

Brackets []: These represent the total change for the day, including backlogged reports, if any.

• These numbers are inflated relative to the actual reports for the day, so they are not used to calculate the comparative percentage shifts.

Older Numbers (Hidden in spoiler mode to make the post more compact)

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4/4 (Holiday): <Sunday>

• Cases: 31,420,331 (+38,126 | ΔW Change: ↓3.47% | Σ Increase: ↑0.12%)
• Deaths: 568,777 (+278 | ΔW Change: ↓38.90% | Σ Increase: ↑0.05%)

4/5: <M>

• Cases: 31,490,563 (+50,329 [+70,232] | ΔW Change: ↓15.71% | Σ Increase: ↑0.22%)
• Deaths: 569,197 (+420 | ΔW Change: ↓34.27% | Σ Increase: ↑0.07%)

4/6: <T>

• Cases: 31,560,438 (+62,283 [+69,875] | ΔW Change: ↓1.69% | Σ Increase: ↑0.22%)
• Deaths: 570,260 (+906 [+1,063] | ΔW Change: ↓2.79% | Σ Increase: ↑0.19%)

4/7: <W>

• Cases: 31,637,243 (+76,805 | ΔW Change: ↑9.91% | Σ Increase: ↑0.24%)
• Deaths: 572,849 (+873 [+2,589] | ΔW Change: ↓21.91% | Σ Increase: ↑0.45%)

4/8: <Þ>

• Cases: 31,717,404 (+75,183 [+80,161] | ΔW Change: ↓3.97% | Σ Increase: ↑0.25%)
• Deaths: 573,856 (+872 [+1,007] | ΔW Change: ↓8.40% | Σ Increase: ↑0.18%)

4/9: <F>

• Cases: 31,802,772 (+85,368 | ΔW Change: ↑21.98% | Σ Increase: ↑0.27%)
• Deaths: 574,840 (+984 | ΔW Change: ↓1.50% | Σ Increase: ↑0.17%)

4/10: <S>

• Cases: 31,869,980 (+67,208 | ΔW Change: ↓0.60% | Σ Increase: ↑0.21%)
• Deaths: 575,593 (+753 | ΔW Change: ↓5.04% | Σ Increase: ↑0.13%)

4/11 (Last Sunday Holiday): <Sunday>

• Cases: 31,918,591 (+48,611 | ΔW Change: ↑27.50% | Σ Increase: ↑0.15%)
• Deaths: 575,829 (+293 | ΔW Change: ↑5.40% | Σ Increase: ↑0.04%)

4/12 (Yesterday): <M>

• Cases: 31,990,143 (+56,522 [+71,552] | ΔW Change: ↑12.31% | Σ Increase: ↑0.22%)
• Deaths: 576,298 (+469 | ΔW Change: ↑11.67% | Σ Increase: ↑0.08%)

4/13 (Today): <T>

• Cases: 32,070,784 (+77,720 [+80,641] | ΔW Change: ↑24.79% | Σ Increase: ↑0.25%)
• Deaths: 577,179 (+819 [+881] | ΔW Change: ↓9.60% | Σ Increase: ↑0.15%)

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

https://twitter.com/NikkiMcR/status/1382126620895502340

I'm not a particularly religious person, but at this point it wouldn't take much to convince me that Tucker Carlson is an agent of the Devil.

This is total crazy talk and immensely irresponsible.  But I would expect nothing less from Tucker.

Fauci’s guidance, however, is also irresponsible, and I would expect more from him and the CDC.

If we want people to be vaccinated, we need to remove the recommended restrictions for vaccinated people.  The refusal to do so really does make it -appear- like public health officials have little confidence in the vaccines, despite all the evidence that they are stupendously effective.

[emailking]

If we want people to be vaccinated, we need to remove the recommended restrictions for vaccinated people.  The refusal to do so really does make it -appear- like public health officials have little confidence in the vaccines, despite all the evidence that they are stupendously effective.

That sounds like you're saying we need to trick people. We need people to think health officials are sure that vaccinated people can't spread the virus (though they aren't) so they'll take the vaccine so they don't die (which they are sure of).