COVID-19 Megathread 6: Return of the Omicron

[politicallefty]

At what point would you endorse an end to social distancing measures?

And take "lockdodown" out of your vocabularly. It is not an option and disgusting its even still being debated in July 2021.

I'll excuse your misspelling, but I absolutely do not support lockdowns unless this mutates into something far worse. As I've said before, I support mitigation. Vaccines are the best way to do this. I had my second dose at the end of April. However, I also think summer is giving us a false sense of security. Mitigation means reducing risk, not necessarily eliminating risk. That means wearing a mask in a grocery store or in a medical building or the like, but not while eating in a restaurant or sitting in a movie theatre. I think the end point would be when herd immunity is reached. I would say Vermont has met the criteria to end all pandemic measures, at least for the time being. States need to consider breakthrough variants in the fall and winter.

I don't want to go back to lockdown either, but there are intermediate measures we can take. Mitigation is not a bad thing. I still fail to see how masks are some apparent massive violation of rights to some people. They are one of the most effective measures we have against this virus (and viruses and other pathogens in general) after vaccines.

The key here is “after vaccines”.  If masks are still less effective (and less convenient) than vaccines, we should not be implementing a mask mandate before we implement a vaccine mandate.

And ironically enough, one of the major reasons why the CDC modified its mask-wearing recommendations-and why states have dropped their mask mandates-is because of the belief that removing them would incentivize more people to get vaccinated, so that they would not have to wear masks again. Reimposing mask mandates would not be the best move at this point, and I'm not sure if we could get the high rates of adherence that we had previously.

I think that was one of the worst decisions from the CDC and why I have no ounce of confidence in them anymore (although I never had much considering past decisions). They broadcast their recommendations without any consideration of the social ramifications. There may have been a brief uptick, coinciding with states having enticements (such as Ohio and California), but we've been mostly stalled for awhile now. What happened was that most states removed their mask mandates entirely, regardless of the vaccination rate. No state has required a check of vaccine status.

There's a large segment of the population in this country that remains unvaccinated, not to mention those that are under 12 and cannot get the vaccine. This is only allowing for new mutations and variants to develop as the virus gets an exponential chance to keep replicating. It's apparently not common sense that stopping transmission stops replication. Every day and every chance this virus gets to mutate is one that could render our vaccines useless or even just far less effective.

[emailking]

There's a large segment of the population in this country that remains unvaccinated, not to mention those that are under 12 and cannot get the vaccine. This is only allowing for new mutations and variants to develop as the virus gets an exponential chance to keep replicating. It's apparently not common sense that stopping transmission stops replication. Every day and every chance this virus gets to mutate is one that could render our vaccines useless or even just far less effective.

Why don't you have this concern for the flu? Every person it infects is a chance for it to mutate into something deadlier that evades all our vaccines. Right?

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/bpmehlman/status/1414259735147302914

[Frodo]

But Pfizer is now asking FDA for a 3rd booster shot, while saying it still has an impact yet research is pending :
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/pfizer-seek-ok-3rd-covid-vaccine-dose-shots-still-protect-n1273426

Dr. Anthony Fauci has pretty much said in an interview that Pfizer is getting a bit ahead of themselves in calling for a third booster shot:

Will a COVID vaccine booster shot be needed? Fauci says it’s too soon to tell

[RINO Tom]

Reported for misinformation and vaccine denialism.

People are looking for ANY reason to reinstate covid restrictions forever.

No, people actually want the opposite. They want everyone to be vaccinated so we can reopen safely and not need to lockdown again. Rushing to reopen is going to necessitate another lockdown.

You sound deranged.

[Hammy]

There's a large segment of the population in this country that remains unvaccinated, not to mention those that are under 12 and cannot get the vaccine. This is only allowing for new mutations and variants to develop as the virus gets an exponential chance to keep replicating. It's apparently not common sense that stopping transmission stops replication. Every day and every chance this virus gets to mutate is one that could render our vaccines useless or even just far less effective.

Why don't you have this concern for the flu? Every person it infects is a chance for it to mutate into something deadlier that evades all our vaccines. Right?

The flu is far less dangerous or deadly.

[Horus]

We have stats coming out showing ~99.4% of hospitalizations are among the unvaccinated and the usual suspects are still dooming. Unreal.

[Bandit3 the Worker]

I can't believe Daily Kos diarists quote Eric Feigl-Ding extensively.

I just can't believe I ever followed Daily Kos.

[roxas11]

I think Biden has done all he can when it comes to making sure that every American can get vaccinated if they choose to but by the end of the day the reality is there is a large segment of people in our county who will never get vaccinated and nothing Biden does will ever change that

bringing back mask mandates or trying to push vaccine mandates will only make things worse because people on the far right will just use that to further demonise the vaccines and Republican governors will most likely fight back against any attempt at bring back those types of policies

At this point all we can do is hope or pray that we will not see this virus mutate into something far more dangerous as it goes on to infect and kill many people in the low vaccinated southern states

[jamestroll]

Reported for misinformation and vaccine denialism.

People are looking for ANY reason to reinstate covid restrictions forever.

No, people actually want the opposite. They want everyone to be vaccinated so we can reopen safely and not need to lockdown again. Rushing to reopen is going to necessitate another lockdown.

You sound deranged.

If people wanted more covid restrictions so bad, Democrats would not have almost lost the House of Representatives last November.

[Hammy]

Reported for misinformation and vaccine denialism.

People are looking for ANY reason to reinstate covid restrictions forever.

No, people actually want the opposite. They want everyone to be vaccinated so we can reopen safely and not need to lockdown again. Rushing to reopen is going to necessitate another lockdown.

You sound deranged.

If people wanted more covid restrictions so bad, Democrats would not have almost lost the House of Representatives last November.

This is a really bizarre take on the utter disaster that the DCCC is and always has been.

[roxas11]

Reported for misinformation and vaccine denialism.

People are looking for ANY reason to reinstate covid restrictions forever.

No, people actually want the opposite. They want everyone to be vaccinated so we can reopen safely and not need to lockdown again. Rushing to reopen is going to necessitate another lockdown.

You sound deranged.

If people wanted more covid restrictions so bad, Democrats would not have almost lost the House of Representatives last November.

If people wanted less covid restrictions so bad, Trump would not have lost the election last November...

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

The whole sentiment that instituting a vaccine mandate wouldn’t increase vaccination rates because people would just rebel against the mandate is perplexing to me. 

There’s lots of things that people don’t really want to do, but they still do only because they are legally required to, and they almost always just go along with it as opposed to like, starting a civil war or something.

I mean, how many people would voluntarily get a driver’s license if it wasn’t actually legally required to drive?  And yet, almost everyone who drives gets a license because they might go to jail if they don’t, and almost no one is forming a militia to protest license mandates.

[Holy Unifying Centrist]

Reported for misinformation and vaccine denialism.

People are looking for ANY reason to reinstate covid restrictions forever.

No, people actually want the opposite. They want everyone to be vaccinated so we can reopen safely and not need to lockdown again. Rushing to reopen is going to necessitate another lockdown.

Are you living in a box? We've been reopened for literally months now. Texas has been completely reopen since March. I swear the Atlas COVID doomers don't go outside at all

[roxas11]

The whole sentiment that instituting a vaccine mandate wouldn’t increase vaccination rates because people would just rebel against the mandate is perplexing to me.  

There’s lots of things that people don’t really want to do, but they still do only because they are legally required to, and they almost always just go along with it as opposed to like, starting a civil war or something.

I mean, how many people would voluntarily get a driver’s license if it wasn’t actually legally required to drive?  And yet, almost everyone who drives gets a license because they might go to jail if they don’t, and almost no one is forming a militia to protest license mandates.

you are naive if you honestly believe things are that simple

When I talked about people rebeling against the mandates I was not just talking about regular people on the street I was also taking about this guy...


make no mistake the second Joe Biden calls for a national mask or vaccines mandate Gregg Abbot, Ron DeSantis and many other Republican governors will use their power to make sure that people in their states will never have to follow it

Just look at how things played out with the obamacare individual mandate

A lot of people did not comply with it even if meant they got a fined for doing so and the republicans spent years actively fighting the individual mandate in court. They eventually succeeded in killing it and with the current supreme court, they most likely also succeed in killing any Joe Biden mandate when comes to mask or vaccines

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

Reported for misinformation and vaccine denialism.

People are looking for ANY reason to reinstate covid restrictions forever.

No, people actually want the opposite. They want everyone to be vaccinated so we can reopen safely and not need to lockdown again. Rushing to reopen is going to necessitate another lockdown.

Are you living in a box? We've been reopened for literally months now. Texas has been completely reopen since March. I swear the Atlas COVID doomers don't go outside at all

I think we really need to make a greater distinction between actual lockdowns - with mandatory business closures and strict capacity limits on those places that are allowed to remain open - and things like mask mandates. The number of people who actually want true lockdowns is a vanishingly small percentage of the population, and given how effective the vaccines have been against the COVID variants thus far, I can't imagine we're going to be seeing any true lockdowns going forward. The public isn't going to tolerate something that drastic solely for the purpose of protecting those who are too stubborn to get vaccinated. Mask mandates, on the other hand, are a far less dramatic burden. While I don't think we need any such mandates currently outside of hospitals and other high-risk areas, I do think it's possible we see some return to more widespread masking in the late fall/winter if we get another major wave due to the significant percentage of the population that remains unvaccinated.

I'm not saying such a return to masking is necessarily likely, but it is at least a possibility that is worthy of discussion. Full-on lockdowns are a straw man that aren't worthy of discussion at this point in the pandemic.

[Not Me, Us]

As far as I'm concerned, there is no point in lockdowns. The only people who are truly at risk for COVID are the unvaccinated, and if you still refuse to get the vaccine at this point, I don't care what happens to you, unless you have a legitimate medical reason for not doing so. If the antivaxxers want to play with fire, let them get burned. We should not place restrictions on the vaccinated because the minority refuses the vaccine. It's an issue of personal responsibility at this point.

[DINGO Joe]

Reported for misinformation and vaccine denialism.

People are looking for ANY reason to reinstate covid restrictions forever.

No, people actually want the opposite. They want everyone to be vaccinated so we can reopen safely and not need to lockdown again. Rushing to reopen is going to necessitate another lockdown.

Are you living in a box? We've been reopened for literally months now. Texas has been completely reopen since March. I swear the Atlas COVID doomers don't go outside at all

Well, plenty of Atlas didn't go outside before the pandemic either

[pbrower2a]

If I am an employer, then I insist that my employees get vaccinated lest they risk being fired. I do not want workers to put in sick time only to end up dying while hooked up on a ventilator. I'm willing to cooperate with an insurance company to keep my premiums for workers' compensation as low as possible. I do not want sick people infecting customers, clients, or products.   

People will get the opportunity to show that they need not be vaccinated by showing their vaccination cards. (I treat mine like a passport).

[It’s so Joever]

Reported for misinformation and vaccine denialism.

People are looking for ANY reason to reinstate covid restrictions forever.

No, people actually want the opposite. They want everyone to be vaccinated so we can reopen safely and not need to lockdown again. Rushing to reopen is going to necessitate another lockdown.

Are you living in a box? We've been reopened for literally months now. Texas has been completely reopen since March. I swear the Atlas COVID doomers don't go outside at all

I think we really need to make a greater distinction between actual lockdowns - with mandatory business closures and strict capacity limits on those places that are allowed to remain open - and things like mask mandates. The number of people who actually want true lockdowns is a vanishingly small percentage of the population, and given how effective the vaccines have been against the COVID variants thus far, I can't imagine we're going to be seeing any true lockdowns going forward. The public isn't going to tolerate something that drastic solely for the purpose of protecting those who are too stubborn to get vaccinated. Mask mandates, on the other hand, are a far less dramatic burden. While I don't think we need any such mandates currently outside of hospitals and other high-risk areas, I do think it's possible we see some return to more widespread masking in the late fall/winter if we get another major wave due to the significant percentage of the population that remains unvaccinated.

I'm not saying such a return to masking is necessarily likely, but it is at least a possibility that is worthy of discussion. Full-on lockdowns are a straw man that aren't worthy of discussion at this point in the pandemic.

We haven’t been in a lockdown in a year. Even earlier depending on where you are.
Jimmie likes to equate anything to a lockdown, it’s classic fearmongering.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Newsmax host suggests vaccines are “against nature,” and some diseases are “supposed to wipe out a certain amount of people”:

Rob Schmitt: “That's just kind of the way evolution goes. Vaccines kind of stand in the way of that”

https://www.mediamatters.org/newsmax/newsmax-host-suggests-vaccines-are-against-nature-and-some-diseases-are-supposed-wipe-out

[ProudModerate2]

CNN Video.
Right-wing media deems vaccine resistance a badge of honor.

Click here to watch ... https://us.cnn.com/videos/media/2021/07/10/vaccine-rejection-rhetoric-right-wing-media-republicans-stelter-dlt-vpx.cnn/video/playlists/business-media/

[Roll Roons]

As far as I'm concerned, there is no point in lockdowns. The only people who are truly at risk for COVID are the unvaccinated, and if you still refuse to get the vaccine at this point, I don't care what happens to you, unless you have a legitimate medical reason for not doing so. If the antivaxxers want to play with fire, let them get burned. We should not place restrictions on the vaccinated because the minority refuses the vaccine. It's an issue of personal responsibility at this point.

This times a thousand. I'm a congressional staffer, and Nancy's refusal to reopen the Capitol is really pissing me off. If Marjorie or Boebert gets sick, it's entirely on them at this point.

[Hammy]

As far as I'm concerned, there is no point in lockdowns. The only people who are truly at risk for COVID are the unvaccinated, and if you still refuse to get the vaccine at this point, I don't care what happens to you, unless you have a legitimate medical reason for not doing so. If the antivaxxers want to play with fire, let them get burned. We should not place restrictions on the vaccinated because the minority refuses the vaccine. It's an issue of personal responsibility at this point.

This times a thousand. I'm a congressional staffer, and Nancy's refusal to reopen the Capitol is really pissing me off. If Marjorie or Boebert gets sick, it's entirely on them at this point.

Pretty sure the coup attempt is a factor here.

[Roll Roons]

As far as I'm concerned, there is no point in lockdowns. The only people who are truly at risk for COVID are the unvaccinated, and if you still refuse to get the vaccine at this point, I don't care what happens to you, unless you have a legitimate medical reason for not doing so. If the antivaxxers want to play with fire, let them get burned. We should not place restrictions on the vaccinated because the minority refuses the vaccine. It's an issue of personal responsibility at this point.

This times a thousand. I'm a congressional staffer, and Nancy's refusal to reopen the Capitol is really pissing me off. If Marjorie or Boebert gets sick, it's entirely on them at this point.

Pretty sure the coup attempt is a factor here.

Not anymore. The last fences came down this weekend. It's that out-of-touch old hag and her liberal grandstanding. I don't think a Speaker Hakeem Jeffries would be doing this.