COVID-19 Megathread 6: Return of the Omicron

[Calthrina950]

https://twitter.com/LVozzella/status/1491120397659611137
Laws such as this are needed in every state to prevent the Covid freaks from ever masking our children again.

Wow, how heroic. I'm sure you're nutting yourself since you're too much of a baby to handle putting cloth on your face for ten minutes. You're so soft.

It's not just ten minutes. Students have been obliged to wear masks for the entire school day, so for a good seven or eight hours each day. But I am curious. Do you think we should make mask mandates permanent at this point?

[emailking]

Also masking is illegal in Virginia

Your intent has to be to conceal your identity. So if you do not intend to conceal your identity, then it is not illegal for you to mask in your state.

[Meclazine for Israel]

The Moderna booster was the sickest I've felt in my adult life. Thankfully, it only lasted one night. It surprised me since the first 2 were annoying but tolerable, and the booster is only a half dose.

I wouldn't say mine was that intense. Malaria is the sickest I gave been and cancer treatment etc. But certainly gave me a couple of days of pain and suffering.

[Oakvale]

So does anyone here have any explanation why there have not been the mass deaths of children in Chicago Public Schools that were promised if their schools were held in person?

No Jimmie they've moved on to fearmongering about how half of all children will get "Long Covid", because this is the perfect excuse to continue their forever war: no one can agree on what "Long Covid" even is and it will take decades before we have any real evidence. Restrictions forever.

Long COVID is... proven to be a real thing, even though we don't know exactly what it is. Why are you using conspiracy theories to make other people look unreasonable?

We can safely assume that there's the potential, in some cases, for long-term side effects from Covid, as there is with any respiratory illness, but we don't know what this consists of, how prevalent it will be, or how long-lasting the effects are. The term 'Long Covid' is basically useless and will be for years until we actually have a proper definition.

There's reported cases of people reporting a miraculous recovery from 'Long Covid' after being vaccinated, which makes no sense. Consider further that a recent study showed there was no correlation between having ever had Covid and 'Long Covid' - what mattered instead was whether the patient believed they'd had Covid.

There will, unfortunately, be a small number of people who are hospitalised with a severe case of covid and suffer long-term damage as a result. This happens with the flu. But in most cases I think it's becoming ever more probable that 'Long Covid' is a psychosomatic condition and should be treated like chronic lyme disease or one of those other mass hysterias.

[Bandit3 the Worker]

Why were there so many cases on Sunday? Corona Scanner listed 407,089 nationwide, which is a lot for a Sunday.

[emailking]

Worldometers has 146K.

[Roll Roons]

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1491164184461066247

Here we go. Biden can't help but screw this up.

[Calthrina950]

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1491164184461066247

Here we go. Biden can't help but screw this up.

There is this Politico article describing how Democratic Governors are moving ahead of the White House in terms of lifting mask mandates. But the Biden Administration apparently plans on doubling down on the CDC masking recommendations, which won't be going away anytime soon. I've said before that it might take a change in the party occupying the White House for those recommendations to be set aside.

What about Congress? Do House Republicans plan on getting rid of the House mask mandate if they regain the majority? I know Pelosi is not doing away with it anytime soon.

[GeorgiaModerate]

The Moderna booster was the sickest I've felt in my adult life. Thankfully, it only lasted one night. It surprised me since the first 2 were annoying but tolerable, and the booster is only a half dose.

I've heard from a lot of people that the boosters were a lot more intense than the first shots.

For me (Pfizer) the first shot just made me sleepy, the second made me feel awful (wiped out like I had the flu) for a day or two, and the booster just made my arm hurt for a few days.

[emailking]

If it's a recommendation who cares? Ignore it if you don't want to follow it.

And we're* not in Congress so who cares what they're doing? It doesn't affect you if the states are going to move on anyway.

* Roons excepted

[compucomp]

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1491164184461066247
Here we go. Biden can't help but screw this up.

He's encouraging the wearing of masks. No mention of any mandate. It is 100% the right thing to do, just like it is 100% the right thing to do to encourage people to get the vaccine. There is maybe one poster that claims there is a distinction between masks and mask mandates, but it is clear that most supposed "anti mask mandate" posters are really posters who hate masks altogether and don't want them seen in public at all. Against such incorrigible ideologues who take up such an extremist position, there really is no reason for us on the other side to try for any compromise and thus we might as well advocate for mask mandates in perpetuity, because you'll react to both in the same way, blind frothing-at-the-mouth rage, as you are reacting to this totally innocuous tweet by Joe.

[Calthrina950]

If it's a recommendation who cares? Ignore it if you don't want to follow it.

And we're* not in Congress so who cares what they're doing? It doesn't affect you if the states are going to move on anyway.

* Roons excepted

The problem though is that many businesses, schools, and public places continue to maintain employee mask mandates (such as my job), and these mandates are tied to the CDC recommendations. They will drop their mandates only if the CDC changes course. So no, these are not "recommendations" that can be willfully ignored, not for many people.

[emailking]

It's their choice too of course. You could take your money elsewhere if it's a problem for you. I'm not convinced it's a bad recommendation, so I'm not sympathetic to the argument that they should drop the recommendation because it's crimping some people's style.

[Calthrina950]

It's their choice too of course. You could take your money elsewhere if it's a problem for you. I'm not convinced it's a bad recommendation, so I'm not sympathetic to the argument that they should drop the recommendation because it's crimping some people's style.

I mentioned that it's my job-in other words, my employer. I am an employee, and employees are subject to a mask mandate, which has now been in force for almost all of the past two years. Many people can't just easily change jobs. What you're saying is that you would support employees being subjected to mask mandates in perpetuity. What about schoolchildren? Do you support perpetual mask mandates?

Why is it that so many posters on here have grown so fond of masks?

[emailking]

You don't have to work at Home Depot. I get in your life position you might feel like that's your only good option, but yeah the company can choose to require masks for their employees. That's just how it goes. I'm not fond of masks. I stopped wearing them in the store until Omicron. No I don't think masks should be required in schools. Could the feds recommend masks be worn in schools? Sure, I'm fine with that.

[Calthrina950]

You don't have to work at Home Depot. I get in your life position you might feel like that's your only good option, but yeah the company can choose to require masks for their employees. That's just how it goes. I'm not fond of masks. I stopped wearing them in the store until Omicron. No I don't think masks should be required in schools. Could the feds recommend masks be worn in schools? Sure, I'm fine with that.

Of course I don't have to work there, and it's not my intention to spend my entire working career there. But surely, you must see that many people didn't sign up for permanent mask mandates, and you seem not to have any problem with such mandates if they are imposed. On this issue, I must strongly disagree with you, and I'm not going to consider things to be normal until the mandates are gone.

[compucomp]

If it's a recommendation who cares? Ignore it if you don't want to follow it.

And we're* not in Congress so who cares what they're doing? It doesn't affect you if the states are going to move on anyway.

* Roons excepted

The problem though is that many businesses, schools, and public places continue to maintain employee mask mandates (such as my job), and these mandates are tied to the CDC recommendations. They will drop their mandates only if the CDC changes course. So no, these are not "recommendations" that can be willfully ignored, not for many people.

If the CDC rescinds its mask guidance, it would throw away any pretense of it being an apolitical scientific agency. It has already made several blunders trying to manipulate public opinion by making dubious decisions and announcements without proper scientific justification. This would be the nail in the coffin. Since Omicron is less severe the CDC could change their definition of "high transmission". But the evidence so far is showing that Omicron is still much worse than the seasonal flu in terms of illness and death caused and thus slowing down the spread is still necessary. If I were the CDC director I would resign in protest before I would rescind the mask guidance.

[emailking]

But you've been saying that they're going away. I get for you, right now, you still are under one. But there's light at the end of the tunnel for you.

[Calthrina950]

But you've been saying that they're going away. I get for you, right now, you still are under one. But there's light at the end of the tunnel for you.

I've also said that the Biden Administration has been doubling down on the CDC's recommendations, and the CDC themselves have doubled down on them. I don't agree with compucomp over the necessity for mask mandates, but his post above, stating that the CDC would "lose all pretense of being a public agency", may be the very reason why they don't reverse their recommendations. As public health officials, they take the most cautious stance on every issue, and it's unlikely that they're going to restore their recommendations to what they were prior to the pandemic.

[Calthrina950]

If it's a recommendation who cares? Ignore it if you don't want to follow it.

And we're* not in Congress so who cares what they're doing? It doesn't affect you if the states are going to move on anyway.

* Roons excepted

The problem though is that many businesses, schools, and public places continue to maintain employee mask mandates (such as my job), and these mandates are tied to the CDC recommendations. They will drop their mandates only if the CDC changes course. So no, these are not "recommendations" that can be willfully ignored, not for many people.

If the CDC rescinds its mask guidance, it would throw away any pretense of it being an apolitical scientific agency. It has already made several blunders trying to manipulate public opinion by making dubious decisions and announcements without proper scientific justification. This would be the nail in the coffin. Since Omicron is less severe the CDC could change their definition of "high transmission". But the evidence so far is showing that Omicron is still much worse than the seasonal flu in terms of illness and death caused and thus slowing down the spread is still necessary. If I were the CDC director I would resign in protest before I would rescind the mask guidance.

The Omicron wave is receding however, and cases, hospitalizations, and deaths have all entered a downwards trajectory. Of course, you've already made plain your support for permanent mask mandates, not just for employees and schoolchildren, but for all of society, and you personally adore masks, as being decorative garments, that, beyond their medical value, are garments that people will absolutely delight in wearing and will have no problems with whatsoever. I wouldn't expect for you to endorse a change in the CDC's recommendations.

[emailking]

Well I think we discussed this before, but I'm pretty sure they'll drop the recommendation when there are a few dozen thousand cases daily, like they did last summer. I know you think they'll be permanently stuck on the recommendation, but if that happens and there's negligible Covid I'd have to hear the reason for retaining the recommendation before judging it. I just think that's unlikely hypothetical.

[Calthrina950]

Well I think we discussed this before, but I'm pretty sure they'll drop the recommendation when there are a few dozen thousand cases daily, like they did last summer. I know you think they'll be permanently stuck on the recommendation, but if that happens and there's negligible Covid I'd have to hear the reason for retaining the recommendation before judging it. I just think that's unlikely hypothetical.

I'm skeptical of that, as I simply don't trust the CDC and the Administration on this anymore.

[compucomp]

If it's a recommendation who cares? Ignore it if you don't want to follow it.

And we're* not in Congress so who cares what they're doing? It doesn't affect you if the states are going to move on anyway.

* Roons excepted

The problem though is that many businesses, schools, and public places continue to maintain employee mask mandates (such as my job), and these mandates are tied to the CDC recommendations. They will drop their mandates only if the CDC changes course. So no, these are not "recommendations" that can be willfully ignored, not for many people.

If the CDC rescinds its mask guidance, it would throw away any pretense of it being an apolitical scientific agency. It has already made several blunders trying to manipulate public opinion by making dubious decisions and announcements without proper scientific justification. This would be the nail in the coffin. Since Omicron is less severe the CDC could change their definition of "high transmission". But the evidence so far is showing that Omicron is still much worse than the seasonal flu in terms of illness and death caused and thus slowing down the spread is still necessary. If I were the CDC director I would resign in protest before I would rescind the mask guidance.

The Omicron wave is receding however, and cases, hospitalizations, and deaths have all entered a downwards trajectory. Of course, you've already made plain your support for permanent mask mandates, not just for employees and schoolchildren, but for all of society, and you personally adore masks, as being decorative garments, that, beyond their medical value, are garments that people will absolutely delight in wearing and will have no problems with whatsoever. I wouldn't expect for you to endorse a change in the CDC's recommendations.

It's receding now but there's no guarantee that it will continue. In UK and Denmark cases were dropping but have stopped and leveled off at a high level. Even if cases do drop to a low level, there is every chance there will be another surge in 6-12 months due to waning immunity. I think it is way too optimistic to expect cases to stay low in the medium and long term. I would like to be wrong but I think there's a substantial possibility we will see similar levels of hospitalization and death as 2021 every year going forward. Given that belief I strongly believe that masks use should continue indefinitely as they are low cost and low effort, turning them on and off is a possibility but that tends to annoy people even more than a consistent policy. If COVID really ceases to be a threat to public health, then sure, we can ditch the masks, but I think this is unlikely to happen.

Also, I understand you work for Home Depot or Lowe's. CDC recommendations are not law, nobody has banned rare steak or sushi despite what the CDC says. I think your firm imposed a mask mandate for two main reasons, one is a CYA in case they get sued due to a COVID outbreak, and the other is that they're afraid they will lose customers if their employees are not wearing masks. The first means that corporate has assessed the situation and deemed COVID enough of a threat for an employee mask mandate, and the second is a market-driven decision based on the desires of the consumer. So at the end of the day it is still COVID to blame and not the CDC.

Well I think we discussed this before, but I'm pretty sure they'll drop the recommendation when there are a few dozen thousand cases daily, like they did last summer. I know you think they'll be permanently stuck on the recommendation, but if that happens and there's negligible Covid I'd have to hear the reason for retaining the recommendation before judging it. I just think that's unlikely hypothetical.

I'm skeptical of that, as I simply don't trust the CDC and the Administration on this anymore.

I don't trust the administration either as I don't think they're doing enough to curb the pandemic and they're allowing public opinion to creep into their decision making. This must mean they are doing OK and finding a middle ground. However I will support them, because unlike most of the ideologues on this forum I will accept half a loaf, especially when "no loaf" is Trump's hydroxychloroquine and bleach injections.

[Calthrina950]

If it's a recommendation who cares? Ignore it if you don't want to follow it.

And we're* not in Congress so who cares what they're doing? It doesn't affect you if the states are going to move on anyway.

* Roons excepted

The problem though is that many businesses, schools, and public places continue to maintain employee mask mandates (such as my job), and these mandates are tied to the CDC recommendations. They will drop their mandates only if the CDC changes course. So no, these are not "recommendations" that can be willfully ignored, not for many people.

If the CDC rescinds its mask guidance, it would throw away any pretense of it being an apolitical scientific agency. It has already made several blunders trying to manipulate public opinion by making dubious decisions and announcements without proper scientific justification. This would be the nail in the coffin. Since Omicron is less severe the CDC could change their definition of "high transmission". But the evidence so far is showing that Omicron is still much worse than the seasonal flu in terms of illness and death caused and thus slowing down the spread is still necessary. If I were the CDC director I would resign in protest before I would rescind the mask guidance.

The Omicron wave is receding however, and cases, hospitalizations, and deaths have all entered a downwards trajectory. Of course, you've already made plain your support for permanent mask mandates, not just for employees and schoolchildren, but for all of society, and you personally adore masks, as being decorative garments, that, beyond their medical value, are garments that people will absolutely delight in wearing and will have no problems with whatsoever. I wouldn't expect for you to endorse a change in the CDC's recommendations.

It's receding now but there's no guarantee that it will continue. In UK and Denmark cases were dropping but have stopped and leveled off at a high level. Even if cases do drop to a low level, there is every chance there will be another surge in 6-12 months due to waning immunity. I think it is way too optimistic to expect cases to stay low in the medium and long term. I would like to be wrong but I think there's a substantial possibility we will see similar levels of hospitalization and death as 2021 every year going forward. Given that belief I strongly believe that masks use should continue indefinitely as they are low cost and low effort, turning them on and off is a possibility but that tends to annoy people even more than a consistent policy. If COVID really ceases to be a threat to public health, then sure, we can ditch the masks, but I think this is unlikely to happen.

Also, I understand you work for Home Depot or Lowe's. CDC recommendations are not law, nobody has banned rare steak or sushi despite what the CDC says. I think your firm imposed a mask mandate for two main reasons, one is a CYA in case they get sued due to a COVID outbreak, and the other is that they're afraid they will lose customers if their employees are not wearing masks. The first means that corporate has assessed the situation and deemed COVID enough of a threat for an employee mask mandate, and the second is a market-driven decision based on the desires of the consumer. So at the end of the day it is still COVID to blame and not the CDC.

Well I think we discussed this before, but I'm pretty sure they'll drop the recommendation when there are a few dozen thousand cases daily, like they did last summer. I know you think they'll be permanently stuck on the recommendation, but if that happens and there's negligible Covid I'd have to hear the reason for retaining the recommendation before judging it. I just think that's unlikely hypothetical.

I'm skeptical of that, as I simply don't trust the CDC and the Administration on this anymore.

I don't trust the administration either as I don't think they're doing enough to curb the pandemic. This must mean they are doing OK and finding a middle ground. However I will support them, because unlike most of the ideologues on this forum I will accept half a loaf, especially when "no loaf" is Trump's hydroxychloroquine and bleach injections.

I'm not so confident about your assertion, which is one that others have made. My job restored its employee mask mandate when the CDC reversed its recommendations back in July, and had lifted the mandate when the CDC had lifted the recommendations two months before that, in May. I believe that there is a direct correlation between the mandate and the requirements. And you're proposing for there to be a permanent mask mandate at my workplace. That's not something I signed up for, and I don't want to be subjected to it in any other environment. Are you seriously expecting me to wear a mask for decades from now?

And your views make it quite clear that you probably fall in Camp 2, wherein you wish for tighter restrictions to be imposed. With the Omicron wave receding, there is no justification for the strictures that you support. Do you believe that there will be another variant? You are of the belief that we shall always been in pandemic mode, and that people should just "suck it up" and live with it. We shouldn't be allowing this virus to completely dictate our lives going forward.

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/kiranstacey/status/1491205840036319232