COVID-19 Megathread 6: Return of the Omicron

[emailking]

But you've been saying that they're going away. I get for you, right now, you still are under one. But there's light at the end of the tunnel for you.

[Calthrina950]

But you've been saying that they're going away. I get for you, right now, you still are under one. But there's light at the end of the tunnel for you.

I've also said that the Biden Administration has been doubling down on the CDC's recommendations, and the CDC themselves have doubled down on them. I don't agree with compucomp over the necessity for mask mandates, but his post above, stating that the CDC would "lose all pretense of being a public agency", may be the very reason why they don't reverse their recommendations. As public health officials, they take the most cautious stance on every issue, and it's unlikely that they're going to restore their recommendations to what they were prior to the pandemic.

[Calthrina950]

If it's a recommendation who cares? Ignore it if you don't want to follow it.

And we're* not in Congress so who cares what they're doing? It doesn't affect you if the states are going to move on anyway.

* Roons excepted

The problem though is that many businesses, schools, and public places continue to maintain employee mask mandates (such as my job), and these mandates are tied to the CDC recommendations. They will drop their mandates only if the CDC changes course. So no, these are not "recommendations" that can be willfully ignored, not for many people.

If the CDC rescinds its mask guidance, it would throw away any pretense of it being an apolitical scientific agency. It has already made several blunders trying to manipulate public opinion by making dubious decisions and announcements without proper scientific justification. This would be the nail in the coffin. Since Omicron is less severe the CDC could change their definition of "high transmission". But the evidence so far is showing that Omicron is still much worse than the seasonal flu in terms of illness and death caused and thus slowing down the spread is still necessary. If I were the CDC director I would resign in protest before I would rescind the mask guidance.

The Omicron wave is receding however, and cases, hospitalizations, and deaths have all entered a downwards trajectory. Of course, you've already made plain your support for permanent mask mandates, not just for employees and schoolchildren, but for all of society, and you personally adore masks, as being decorative garments, that, beyond their medical value, are garments that people will absolutely delight in wearing and will have no problems with whatsoever. I wouldn't expect for you to endorse a change in the CDC's recommendations.

[emailking]

Well I think we discussed this before, but I'm pretty sure they'll drop the recommendation when there are a few dozen thousand cases daily, like they did last summer. I know you think they'll be permanently stuck on the recommendation, but if that happens and there's negligible Covid I'd have to hear the reason for retaining the recommendation before judging it. I just think that's unlikely hypothetical.

[Calthrina950]

Well I think we discussed this before, but I'm pretty sure they'll drop the recommendation when there are a few dozen thousand cases daily, like they did last summer. I know you think they'll be permanently stuck on the recommendation, but if that happens and there's negligible Covid I'd have to hear the reason for retaining the recommendation before judging it. I just think that's unlikely hypothetical.

I'm skeptical of that, as I simply don't trust the CDC and the Administration on this anymore.

[compucomp]

If it's a recommendation who cares? Ignore it if you don't want to follow it.

And we're* not in Congress so who cares what they're doing? It doesn't affect you if the states are going to move on anyway.

* Roons excepted

The problem though is that many businesses, schools, and public places continue to maintain employee mask mandates (such as my job), and these mandates are tied to the CDC recommendations. They will drop their mandates only if the CDC changes course. So no, these are not "recommendations" that can be willfully ignored, not for many people.

If the CDC rescinds its mask guidance, it would throw away any pretense of it being an apolitical scientific agency. It has already made several blunders trying to manipulate public opinion by making dubious decisions and announcements without proper scientific justification. This would be the nail in the coffin. Since Omicron is less severe the CDC could change their definition of "high transmission". But the evidence so far is showing that Omicron is still much worse than the seasonal flu in terms of illness and death caused and thus slowing down the spread is still necessary. If I were the CDC director I would resign in protest before I would rescind the mask guidance.

The Omicron wave is receding however, and cases, hospitalizations, and deaths have all entered a downwards trajectory. Of course, you've already made plain your support for permanent mask mandates, not just for employees and schoolchildren, but for all of society, and you personally adore masks, as being decorative garments, that, beyond their medical value, are garments that people will absolutely delight in wearing and will have no problems with whatsoever. I wouldn't expect for you to endorse a change in the CDC's recommendations.

It's receding now but there's no guarantee that it will continue. In UK and Denmark cases were dropping but have stopped and leveled off at a high level. Even if cases do drop to a low level, there is every chance there will be another surge in 6-12 months due to waning immunity. I think it is way too optimistic to expect cases to stay low in the medium and long term. I would like to be wrong but I think there's a substantial possibility we will see similar levels of hospitalization and death as 2021 every year going forward. Given that belief I strongly believe that masks use should continue indefinitely as they are low cost and low effort, turning them on and off is a possibility but that tends to annoy people even more than a consistent policy. If COVID really ceases to be a threat to public health, then sure, we can ditch the masks, but I think this is unlikely to happen.

Also, I understand you work for Home Depot or Lowe's. CDC recommendations are not law, nobody has banned rare steak or sushi despite what the CDC says. I think your firm imposed a mask mandate for two main reasons, one is a CYA in case they get sued due to a COVID outbreak, and the other is that they're afraid they will lose customers if their employees are not wearing masks. The first means that corporate has assessed the situation and deemed COVID enough of a threat for an employee mask mandate, and the second is a market-driven decision based on the desires of the consumer. So at the end of the day it is still COVID to blame and not the CDC.

Well I think we discussed this before, but I'm pretty sure they'll drop the recommendation when there are a few dozen thousand cases daily, like they did last summer. I know you think they'll be permanently stuck on the recommendation, but if that happens and there's negligible Covid I'd have to hear the reason for retaining the recommendation before judging it. I just think that's unlikely hypothetical.

I'm skeptical of that, as I simply don't trust the CDC and the Administration on this anymore.

I don't trust the administration either as I don't think they're doing enough to curb the pandemic and they're allowing public opinion to creep into their decision making. This must mean they are doing OK and finding a middle ground. However I will support them, because unlike most of the ideologues on this forum I will accept half a loaf, especially when "no loaf" is Trump's hydroxychloroquine and bleach injections.

[Calthrina950]

If it's a recommendation who cares? Ignore it if you don't want to follow it.

And we're* not in Congress so who cares what they're doing? It doesn't affect you if the states are going to move on anyway.

* Roons excepted

The problem though is that many businesses, schools, and public places continue to maintain employee mask mandates (such as my job), and these mandates are tied to the CDC recommendations. They will drop their mandates only if the CDC changes course. So no, these are not "recommendations" that can be willfully ignored, not for many people.

If the CDC rescinds its mask guidance, it would throw away any pretense of it being an apolitical scientific agency. It has already made several blunders trying to manipulate public opinion by making dubious decisions and announcements without proper scientific justification. This would be the nail in the coffin. Since Omicron is less severe the CDC could change their definition of "high transmission". But the evidence so far is showing that Omicron is still much worse than the seasonal flu in terms of illness and death caused and thus slowing down the spread is still necessary. If I were the CDC director I would resign in protest before I would rescind the mask guidance.

The Omicron wave is receding however, and cases, hospitalizations, and deaths have all entered a downwards trajectory. Of course, you've already made plain your support for permanent mask mandates, not just for employees and schoolchildren, but for all of society, and you personally adore masks, as being decorative garments, that, beyond their medical value, are garments that people will absolutely delight in wearing and will have no problems with whatsoever. I wouldn't expect for you to endorse a change in the CDC's recommendations.

It's receding now but there's no guarantee that it will continue. In UK and Denmark cases were dropping but have stopped and leveled off at a high level. Even if cases do drop to a low level, there is every chance there will be another surge in 6-12 months due to waning immunity. I think it is way too optimistic to expect cases to stay low in the medium and long term. I would like to be wrong but I think there's a substantial possibility we will see similar levels of hospitalization and death as 2021 every year going forward. Given that belief I strongly believe that masks use should continue indefinitely as they are low cost and low effort, turning them on and off is a possibility but that tends to annoy people even more than a consistent policy. If COVID really ceases to be a threat to public health, then sure, we can ditch the masks, but I think this is unlikely to happen.

Also, I understand you work for Home Depot or Lowe's. CDC recommendations are not law, nobody has banned rare steak or sushi despite what the CDC says. I think your firm imposed a mask mandate for two main reasons, one is a CYA in case they get sued due to a COVID outbreak, and the other is that they're afraid they will lose customers if their employees are not wearing masks. The first means that corporate has assessed the situation and deemed COVID enough of a threat for an employee mask mandate, and the second is a market-driven decision based on the desires of the consumer. So at the end of the day it is still COVID to blame and not the CDC.

Well I think we discussed this before, but I'm pretty sure they'll drop the recommendation when there are a few dozen thousand cases daily, like they did last summer. I know you think they'll be permanently stuck on the recommendation, but if that happens and there's negligible Covid I'd have to hear the reason for retaining the recommendation before judging it. I just think that's unlikely hypothetical.

I'm skeptical of that, as I simply don't trust the CDC and the Administration on this anymore.

I don't trust the administration either as I don't think they're doing enough to curb the pandemic. This must mean they are doing OK and finding a middle ground. However I will support them, because unlike most of the ideologues on this forum I will accept half a loaf, especially when "no loaf" is Trump's hydroxychloroquine and bleach injections.

I'm not so confident about your assertion, which is one that others have made. My job restored its employee mask mandate when the CDC reversed its recommendations back in July, and had lifted the mandate when the CDC had lifted the recommendations two months before that, in May. I believe that there is a direct correlation between the mandate and the requirements. And you're proposing for there to be a permanent mask mandate at my workplace. That's not something I signed up for, and I don't want to be subjected to it in any other environment. Are you seriously expecting me to wear a mask for decades from now?

And your views make it quite clear that you probably fall in Camp 2, wherein you wish for tighter restrictions to be imposed. With the Omicron wave receding, there is no justification for the strictures that you support. Do you believe that there will be another variant? You are of the belief that we shall always been in pandemic mode, and that people should just "suck it up" and live with it. We shouldn't be allowing this virus to completely dictate our lives going forward.

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/kiranstacey/status/1491205840036319232

[Calthrina950]

https://twitter.com/kiranstacey/status/1491205840036319232

I can only fervently hope that this means the CDC may finally reconsider their masking advice. Yes, I've stated earlier in this thread that I'm not too trustful of them, but we'll see.

[compucomp]

If it's a recommendation who cares? Ignore it if you don't want to follow it.

And we're* not in Congress so who cares what they're doing? It doesn't affect you if the states are going to move on anyway.

* Roons excepted

The problem though is that many businesses, schools, and public places continue to maintain employee mask mandates (such as my job), and these mandates are tied to the CDC recommendations. They will drop their mandates only if the CDC changes course. So no, these are not "recommendations" that can be willfully ignored, not for many people.

If the CDC rescinds its mask guidance, it would throw away any pretense of it being an apolitical scientific agency. It has already made several blunders trying to manipulate public opinion by making dubious decisions and announcements without proper scientific justification. This would be the nail in the coffin. Since Omicron is less severe the CDC could change their definition of "high transmission". But the evidence so far is showing that Omicron is still much worse than the seasonal flu in terms of illness and death caused and thus slowing down the spread is still necessary. If I were the CDC director I would resign in protest before I would rescind the mask guidance.

The Omicron wave is receding however, and cases, hospitalizations, and deaths have all entered a downwards trajectory. Of course, you've already made plain your support for permanent mask mandates, not just for employees and schoolchildren, but for all of society, and you personally adore masks, as being decorative garments, that, beyond their medical value, are garments that people will absolutely delight in wearing and will have no problems with whatsoever. I wouldn't expect for you to endorse a change in the CDC's recommendations.

It's receding now but there's no guarantee that it will continue. In UK and Denmark cases were dropping but have stopped and leveled off at a high level. Even if cases do drop to a low level, there is every chance there will be another surge in 6-12 months due to waning immunity. I think it is way too optimistic to expect cases to stay low in the medium and long term. I would like to be wrong but I think there's a substantial possibility we will see similar levels of hospitalization and death as 2021 every year going forward. Given that belief I strongly believe that masks use should continue indefinitely as they are low cost and low effort, turning them on and off is a possibility but that tends to annoy people even more than a consistent policy. If COVID really ceases to be a threat to public health, then sure, we can ditch the masks, but I think this is unlikely to happen.

Also, I understand you work for Home Depot or Lowe's. CDC recommendations are not law, nobody has banned rare steak or sushi despite what the CDC says. I think your firm imposed a mask mandate for two main reasons, one is a CYA in case they get sued due to a COVID outbreak, and the other is that they're afraid they will lose customers if their employees are not wearing masks. The first means that corporate has assessed the situation and deemed COVID enough of a threat for an employee mask mandate, and the second is a market-driven decision based on the desires of the consumer. So at the end of the day it is still COVID to blame and not the CDC.

Well I think we discussed this before, but I'm pretty sure they'll drop the recommendation when there are a few dozen thousand cases daily, like they did last summer. I know you think they'll be permanently stuck on the recommendation, but if that happens and there's negligible Covid I'd have to hear the reason for retaining the recommendation before judging it. I just think that's unlikely hypothetical.

I'm skeptical of that, as I simply don't trust the CDC and the Administration on this anymore.

I don't trust the administration either as I don't think they're doing enough to curb the pandemic. This must mean they are doing OK and finding a middle ground. However I will support them, because unlike most of the ideologues on this forum I will accept half a loaf, especially when "no loaf" is Trump's hydroxychloroquine and bleach injections.

I'm not so confident about your assertion, which is one that others have made. My job restored its employee mask mandate when the CDC reversed its recommendations back in July, and had lifted the mandate when the CDC had lifted the recommendations two months before that, in May. I believe that there is a direct correlation between the mandate and the requirements. And you're proposing for there to be a permanent mask mandate at my workplace. That's not something I signed up for, and I don't want to be subjected to it in any other environment. Are you seriously expecting me to wear a mask for decades from now?

And your views make it quite clear that you probably fall in Camp 2, wherein you wish for tighter restrictions to be imposed. With the Omicron wave receding, there is no justification for the strictures that you support. Do you believe that there will be another variant? You are of the belief that we shall always been in pandemic mode, and that people should just "suck it up" and live with it. We shouldn't be allowing this virus to completely dictate our lives going forward.

Sure the CDC recommendation is a substantial part of the corporate CYA, but if COVID cases dropped to minimal levels (Fauci said 10K pre-Omicron, probably should be adjusted up a bit for Omicron) and stayed there for an extended period, then corporate should amend its view that a COVID lawsuit is a real possibility and then respond to complaints from employees like you to remove the employee mask mandate. Sushi restaurants are a vibrant business despite the CDC recommending against eating raw fish; the difference in the two cases is that the risk of food-borne illness from properly sourced and prepared sushi is much, much lower than the risk from COVID right now.

I don't wish for more restrictions should be imposed because the government would have to support the businesses shut down and unemployed people, and then we either have more taxes or more inflation, neither of which I'm interested in supporting. Omicron is receding now, but this is not guaranteed to last (see UK's profile, some speculate this is due to BA.2), and there's ample evidence that immunity to COVID wanes with time. Booster uptake will always be far worse than the initial vaccine uptake, and the vaccine makers always seem to be behind the virus's evolution. I think we will see more Omicron surges in the future rivaling this one, and it's possible 2022 will see a similar level of COVID illness and death as 2021, which I might add was far in excess of the seasonal flu. The end of the "emergency" implies that the threat was actually removed, but if the threat never actually goes away then society needs to change to adapt to the threat.

[compucomp]

https://twitter.com/kiranstacey/status/1491205840036319232

See I want to trust Fauci on this but I can't tell if he's saying this because he genuinely believes it as an epidemiologist or if he's trying to improve Biden's approval rating. The administration has tried this before last year only to end up looking like fools due to Delta and Omicron.

[JGibson]

Illinois Gov. Pritzker set to announce the end of the indoor mask mandate for non-school settings tomorrow. Such an order is set to take effect before March 1st.

https://twitter.com/MaryAnnAhernNBC/status/1491227463338311681

[Calthrina950]

Illinois Gov. Pritzker set to announce the end of the indoor mask mandate for non-school settings tomorrow. Such an order is set to take effect before March 1st.

https://twitter.com/MaryAnnAhernNBC/status/1491227463338311681

Good. More progress is being made.

[Andrew Cuomo is a No Go]

Yes, I am a hero.

Humblest Atlas poster.

[Pericles]

Illinois Gov. Pritzker set to announce the end of the indoor mask mandate for non-school settings tomorrow. Such an order is set to take effect before March 1st.

https://twitter.com/MaryAnnAhernNBC/status/1491227463338311681

It should be dropped for schools first but kids don't vote.

[Mr. Illini]

Illinois Gov. Pritzker set to announce the end of the indoor mask mandate for non-school settings tomorrow. Such an order is set to take effect before March 1st.

https://twitter.com/MaryAnnAhernNBC/status/1491227463338311681

It should be dropped for schools first but kids don't vote.

Strongly agree. Asinine to drop broader mandate but continue requiring in schools.

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

Well I think we discussed this before, but I'm pretty sure they'll drop the recommendation when there are a few dozen thousand cases daily, like they did last summer. I know you think they'll be permanently stuck on the recommendation, but if that happens and there's negligible Covid I'd have to hear the reason for retaining the recommendation before judging it. I just think that's unlikely hypothetical.

The mask mandates were never dropped at the federal level, even last summer when almost everyone else had dropped them.

[emailking]

Well I think we discussed this before, but I'm pretty sure they'll drop the recommendation when there are a few dozen thousand cases daily, like they did last summer. I know you think they'll be permanently stuck on the recommendation, but if that happens and there's negligible Covid I'd have to hear the reason for retaining the recommendation before judging it. I just think that's unlikely hypothetical.

The mask mandates were never dropped at the federal level, even last summer when almost everyone else had dropped them.

The recommendation from the CDC was that you did not need to wear a mask if vaccinated except in certain very specific scenarios. Many federal agencies followed suit. That's what I am saying will likely happen again.

[Anni di ghiaccio]

https://twitter.com/LVozzella/status/1491120397659611137
Laws such as this are needed in every state to prevent the Covid freaks from ever masking our children again.

Wow, how heroic. I'm sure you're nutting yourself since you're too much of a baby to handle putting cloth on your face for ten minutes. You're so soft.

It's not just ten minutes. Students have been obliged to wear masks for the entire school day, so for a good seven or eight hours each day. But I am curious. Do you think we should make mask mandates permanent at this point?

No, but I sure don't f***ing think that mask mandates should be illegal in the event of another airborne pathogen epidemic like the room temperature IQ covidiots seem to think.

[Anni di ghiaccio]

Laws such as this are needed in every state to prevent the Covid freaks from ever masking our children again.

Wow, how heroic. I'm sure you're nutting yourself since you're too much of a baby to handle putting cloth on your face for ten minutes. You're so soft.

Yes, I am a hero.  Also not sure where in the world you live, but pretty sure children have been wearing masks for more than 10 minutes a day.  So sorry that this is happening to you.

You're soft on the inside and outside. Very sad to see.

[compucomp]

It's their choice too of course. You could take your money elsewhere if it's a problem for you. I'm not convinced it's a bad recommendation, so I'm not sympathetic to the argument that they should drop the recommendation because it's crimping some people's style.

Why is it that so many posters on here have grown so fond of masks?

This is such an easy question. Because it helps slow down the spread of a highly contagious, still contagious respiratory virus, is low cost, low effort, didn't shut down any business or cause anyone to lose his job, and doesn't prevent anyone from doing anything.

There is too much optimism right now that COVID is going away and will never come back in the same way, similar to last May when optimism was similarly misplaced. Even if the decline continues and there are no new variants, big ifs, then that only means things will be quiet for a few months. COVID is ridiculously contagious, has animal reservoirs, can spread in any climate, and immunity to it wanes over time, so it will come back. Given how Omicron spread through populations that were already mostly vaccinated or infected, and boosters will be used by 30-50% of the population at best, it's entirely possible the next big wave will look similar to this wave. Even if there's say a 30% chance that happens, this is not a case to say "it's over, time to celebrate", but instead a case to say "it's gone for now, but we must keep up our readiness and remain vigilant". The Biden administration is setting itself up to suffer a nasty October Surprise in the form of a big Omicron surge and then get wrecked in November, if I were them I'd be trying to think of any way possible to delay that surge until after Nov. 8, a big booster push in August or something.

[Zohranism is OUR future]

You don't have to work at Home Depot. I get in your life position you might feel like that's your only good option, but yeah the company can choose to require masks for their employees. That's just how it goes. I'm not fond of masks. I stopped wearing them in the store until Omicron. No I don't think masks should be required in schools. Could the feds recommend masks be worn in schools? Sure, I'm fine with that.

Now this…this is tone deaf.

[emailking]

You don't have to work at Home Depot. I get in your life position you might feel like that's your only good option, but yeah the company can choose to require masks for their employees. That's just how it goes. I'm not fond of masks. I stopped wearing them in the store until Omicron. No I don't think masks should be required in schools. Could the feds recommend masks be worn in schools? Sure, I'm fine with that.

Now this…this is tone deaf.

Yeah I don't care if you think that. If you want to make a substantive argument, go ahead and I'll consider it.

[Roll Roons]

Looks like someone's seen some scary internals: https://twitter.com/RepSeanMaloney/status/1491404726436769794?cxt=HHwWhMDR-cysxL...

But I was told that people who took this position were basically murderers like tRUmPkin and DEatHsaNtis.

[Calthrina950]

Looks like someone's seen some scary internals: https://twitter.com/RepSeanMaloney/status/1491404726436769794?cxt=HHwWhMDR-cysxL...

But I was told that people who took this position were basically murderers like tRUmPkin and DEatHsaNtis.

As you can see, the Democrats are taking credit for the decline in cases and for the vaccination campaign. This is clearly an effort on their part to convince voters that they are the ones who lifted us out of the pandemic. I don't think it's going to work, however, and other issues (namely inflation) will be used by Republicans against them. However, it remains to be seen whether Biden will lift the TSA mandate, and whether the CDC will change its recommendations. So long as the Administration keeps these requirements in place, this Democratic strategy will enjoy even less success.