UK General Discussion: Rishecession

[afleitch]

Spent the day on the doors and not a single person mentioned trans rights or Scottish constitutional law. I have serious doubts this issue will have any cut through.

Despite a lot of shouting on trans rights from politicians & the media desperate for a culture war, most people’s view is “trans people should be allowed to be/do what they want, I don’t really care”. And they care even less about the ins and outs of devolution.

I agree.

I would argue however they do care about the ins and outs of devolution in Scotland and this has went down like a cup of cold sick. When Alex Cole Hamilton, to his credit, is lock step with the Scot Gov response, something is up.

Some interesting thoughts from Lord Falconer

https://mobile.twitter.com/LordCFalconer/status/1615400867015819278

It looks more than likely the Supreme Court will not rule in UK Govs favour. It might argue that certain small parts of the bill (usually dealt with by Section 104 orders iirc) could be adjusted, as usually happens because every devolved bill often has interactions with UK legislation, but on the whole if this intervention on this issue fails, then it's shown up for exactly what it is.

Maggie Chapman for example made the point at Holyrood yesterday that using devolved planning laws, Scot Gov places a moratorium on the construction of nuclear power even though that directly impacts the UK energy supply which isn't devolved. This was not challenged. They challenged on that issue, instead which might end up costing them (as it should)

It is a rather dry and technical matter but does need pointing out in order to avoid misconceptions: there was no vote on the implementation of the Section 35 order, which is purely a matter for the Secretary of State. The vote was a symbolic one - '...this House has considered the decision...' - that always follows an Emergency Debate under Standing Order 24.

People have dug up an intervention during the Scotland Act debate back in 1998 from Michael Ancram of all people, who pointed out the dictatorial 'governor general' nature of that clause, rather than have the issue deferred to the court or to Parliament.

[CumbrianLefty]

And they care even less about the ins and outs of devolution.

Where were you door knocking?

Because I doubt if that is true of Scotland at least - the SNP engineered this for a reason.

[afleitch]

And they care even less about the ins and outs of devolution.

Where were you door knocking?

Because I doubt if that is true of Scotland at least - the SNP engineered this for a reason.

I'm sorry, the SNP did not engineer this. They set out to amend the GRA at the same time the Tories under May, were planning to make the same changes until they ditched them. It was the longest and most intensely consulted piece of legislation in Holyrood history because it got caught up in the culture war. It was supported by all parties (bar the Tories) and passed by all these parties in December, including Labour amendments on the basis that there was an inkling the UK Gov were going to do just this.

[Cassius]

https://twitter.com/RoddyQC/status/1615251146527965186?cxt=HHwWhIC8vYOXw-osAAAA

Dunlop elaborates further in points 4, 5, 6 and 7.

[Coldstream]

And they care even less about the ins and outs of devolution.

Where were you door knocking?

Because I doubt if that is true of Scotland at least - the SNP engineered this for a reason.

I'm sorry, the SNP did not engineer this. They set out to amend the GRA at the same time the Tories under May, were planning to make the same changes until they ditched them. It was the longest and most intensely consulted piece of legislation in Holyrood history because it got caught up in the culture war. It was supported by all parties (bar the Tories) and passed by all these parties in December, including Labour amendments on the basis that there was an inkling the UK Gov were going to do just this.

Yeah this is a Tory problem, it’s very unfair of you to blame the SNP - the legislation should be (and I’d say is) innocuous, they couldn’t have foreseen this happening well in advance.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

As is a certain ex-Labour MP not voting (yes I know about pairing, but still)

Pairing isn't possible as he's not a member of a parliamentary party. Not that it matters as it wasn't a meaningful vote.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

People have dug up an intervention during the Scotland Act debate back in 1998 from Michael Ancram of all people, who pointed out the dictatorial 'governor general' nature of that clause, rather than have the issue deferred to the court or to Parliament.

Ah, yes, I did see that. Well, I suppose he knew the instincts of his own party well enough.

[GALeftist]

If I were British, I would not vote for any Labour MP who abstained on this without an extremely good reason. This is a complete dealbreaker. Well done to the Lib Dems (and the SNP obviously).

EDIT:
https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1615659888176205824

Re: Corbyn's not voting. I obviously have some enormous issues with his foreign policy but it doesn't seem like he skipped this vote intentionally

[Blair]

As is a certain ex-Labour MP not voting (yes I know about pairing, but still)

Pairing isn't possible as he's not a member of a parliamentary party. Not that it matters as it wasn't a meaningful vote.

Not a comment on any posters here but it’s remarkable how badly informed many politically engaged people are on Twitter when it comes to voting in the commons.

There’s been at least 100 occasions where a cancer ridden MP gets called a scab for missing a vote due to illness.

The solution is to have ‘abstain’ (the act of voting in both lobbies) and ‘not present’- with the chance to list a reason (trip abroad, illness etc)

It comes from the fact a lot of people think that MPs spend their entire day next to the commons- the debate and vote in this case was only known about about 4 hours before so if an MP was attending a local bridge opening they wouldn’t have been there. This isn’t D.C where votes are held open for hours or where there’s nothing else to do.

[Silent Hunter]

The 1974-79 Parliament saw an MP essentially die because he died surgery until it was too late so he wouldn't miss votes. Filuwaúrdjan will probably remember who.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The 1974-79 Parliament saw an MP essentially die because he died surgery until it was too late so he wouldn't miss votes. Filuwaúrdjan will probably remember who.

Sir Alfred Broughton (Batley & Morley). He was, in the end, too ill to make it for the final No Confidence vote in 1979 (he was prepared to come, but Callaghan decided it would be immoral) and died five days later. The government fell by a single vote. Before becoming an MP he was a doctor.

[CumbrianLefty]

I note that the Zahawi business is now being covered more by media outlets.

[Blair]

I’m old enough to remember when he was the thing of the future and being backed as the next leader just because he did a good media round once about the vaccine.

[Cassius]

I’m old enough to remember when he was the thing of the future and being backed as the next leader just because he did a good media round once about the vaccine.

Given the speed of his rise and fall I think there are still babies in the womb who can remember Zahawi being the next big thing.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

FPN issued lmao.

[Silent Hunter]

FPN issued lmao.

He's a fine politician.

[TheTide]

Being (half) serious, he might actually resign imminently. He's clearly not enjoying himself (beyond the fake smiles) and at least he would be able to claim that he went immediately after effing up, whereas Johnson and Truss clung on for months/weeks. He also wouldn't go down as the person who led the government to defeat. Gove should have that honour given that he's been there since the beginning.

[Blair]

FPN issued lmao.

In the US it would have taken 9 months for a house investigation, a special counsel and then a Supreme Court case.

Have to love British politics- has been the most hilariously awful year for the Conservatives.

Fully deserved.

[TheTide]

 

https://twitter.com/PGMcNamara/status/1616513955945451531?s=20&t=uy9UbFx2jy-...

[WD]

https://twitter.com/oprosuk/status/1616475432261484545?s=46&t=2_nNzeKuPl9-mg...

[Torrain]

Zahawi has released a statement about his tax affairs - stating the error was "careless not deliberate". It appears the fact that Zahawi didn't get founding shares in YouGov, but his father did, appears to be central to the matter.

Interestingly, he finishes with this: “This (tax) matter was resolved prior to my appointments as chancellor of the duchy of Lancaster and subsequently chairman of the party I love so much. When I was appointed by the prime minister, all my tax affairs were up to date.”

Which most of the lobby have interpreted as Zahawi making deals with HMRC during his prior role... as Chancellor. Which doesn't sound ideal.

Not exactly convinced though, that Zahawi will get the sack unless there's something blatantly embarrasing yet to drop. But this is the guy who used parliamentary expenses to heat his stables, so who knows.

[Cassius]

[CumbrianLefty]

https://twitter.com/PGMcNamara/status/1616513955945451531?s=20&t=uy9UbFx2jy-...

Nadine Dorries and......Dadine Norries, presumably

[Blair]

Christ that Sunday Times Story.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Christ that Sunday Times Story.

It seems quite bad, doesn't it. Not great!