SCOTUS overturns Roe megathread (pg 53 - confirmed)

[Not Me, Us]

If President Biden (or any future President) were to pull an Andrew Jackson on this court (and render it impotent forever), I doubt there will be much of a backlash.

There's no reason not to. SCOTUS does not have the authority to determine what's constitutional or not other than the authority they give themselves. They can't enforce any of their rulings, while Biden has the National Guard which he can nationalize at will. Station the Guards at abortion clinics in red states like desegregated schools in the Jim Crow South to protect women getting abortions. There would be no recourse other than impeachment and removal which obviously wouldn't happen in a divided Senate, so he'd get off scot free.

[7,052,770]

If President Biden (or any future President) were to pull an Andrew Jackson on this court (and render it impotent forever), I doubt there will be much of a backlash.

There's no reason not to. SCOTUS does not have the authority to determine what's constitutional or not other than the authority they give themselves. They can't enforce any of their rulings, while Biden has the National Guard which he can nationalize at will. Station the Guards at abortion clinics in red states like desegregated schools in the Jim Crow South to protect women getting abortions. There would be no recourse other than impeachment and removal which obviously wouldn't happen in a divided Senate, so he'd get off scot free.

What abortion clinics? It's too late in Mississippi, probably other states soon or already.

[Not Me, Us]

If President Biden (or any future President) were to pull an Andrew Jackson on this court (and render it impotent forever), I doubt there will be much of a backlash.

There's no reason not to. SCOTUS does not have the authority to determine what's constitutional or not other than the authority they give themselves. They can't enforce any of their rulings, while Biden has the National Guard which he can nationalize at will. Station the Guards at abortion clinics in red states like desegregated schools in the Jim Crow South to protect women getting abortions. There would be no recourse other than impeachment and removal which obviously wouldn't happen in a divided Senate, so he'd get off scot free.

What abortion clinics? It's too late in Mississippi, probably other states soon or already.

At this point it would be nothing but damage mitigation, but it would certainly be better than nothing. It will clearly never happen anyway, mostly just wishful thinking on my part.

[Skill and Chance]

If President Biden (or any future President) were to pull an Andrew Jackson on this court (and render it impotent forever), I doubt there will be much of a backlash.

There's no reason not to. SCOTUS does not have the authority to determine what's constitutional or not other than the authority they give themselves. They can't enforce any of their rulings, while Biden has the National Guard which he can nationalize at will. Station the Guards at abortion clinics in red states like desegregated schools in the Jim Crow South to protect women getting abortions. There would be no recourse other than impeachment and removal which obviously wouldn't happen in a divided Senate, so he'd get off scot free.

1. An activist prosecutor in a red state would  probably find a way to prosecute Biden under state law after he leaves office. 
2. If he does this successfully, the next Republican president would send the National Guard to raid and shut down blue state abortion clinics and ignore any contrary court rulings.  Ignoring the courts is a one-way street toward a dictatorship. 

[Person Man]

If President Biden (or any future President) were to pull an Andrew Jackson on this court (and render it impotent forever), I doubt there will be much of a backlash.

There's no reason not to. SCOTUS does not have the authority to determine what's constitutional or not other than the authority they give themselves. They can't enforce any of their rulings, while Biden has the National Guard which he can nationalize at will. Station the Guards at abortion clinics in red states like desegregated schools in the Jim Crow South to protect women getting abortions. There would be no recourse other than impeachment and removal which obviously wouldn't happen in a divided Senate, so he'd get off scot free.

1. An activist prosecutor in a red state would  probably find a way to prosecute Biden under state law after he leaves office. 
2. If he does this successfully, the next Republican president would send the National Guard to raid and shut down blue state abortion clinics and ignore any contrary court rulings.  Ignoring the courts is a one-way street toward a dictatorship. 

The path we are on is not sustainable. I agree.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Conservatives: "why do liberals think we hate women?"

Also conservatives:

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1550954716913360896

Gaetz likes his women much younger, no surprise here.

And who is he referring to in the first video?

[Hermit For Peace]

https://www.npr.org/2022/07/25/1113508044/michigan-medical-students-walk-out-on-an-anti-abortion-keynote-speaker

Michigan medical students walk out on an anti-abortion keynote speaker

On Sunday night at the University of Michigan Medical School's annual white coat ceremony, incoming medical students recited oaths, received their white coats – then dozens of them walked out.

At issue was the keynote speaker: Dr. Kristin Collier, a Michigan faculty member and primary care physician who has spoken publicly about her Christian beliefs and anti-abortion views.

In an interview with NPR, Scorpio, who attended the ceremony to support a friend in the incoming medical student class, estimated that roughly 70 of the 170 incoming students walked out, followed by some friends and family "in solidarity."

In total, he guessed, 35 to 40% of the audience took part in the walkout.

"The overall message that the students wanted to push was that reproductive rights, abortion, is health care," Scorpio said. "Reproductive rights for anyone who is able to give birth are incredibly important and should be something that's allowed to everyone in the country."

[Hermit For Peace]

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2022/07/25/1112938261/the-role-of-independent-funds-to-help-people-access-abortion-is-growing

The Role of Abortion Funds

Abortion funds raise and distribute money to people who need help paying for abortions, including procedure and travel costs. In 2020, funds across the country helped nearly 45,000 people pay for abortions.

In the first three weeks after the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, the National Network of Abortion Funds raised nearly $11 million for local funds, more than all abortion funds in the network distributed in 2020.

But demand is also rising, said Floren of the South Dakota fund. She said she got nearly as many calls in the first week of July as she did in all of April, including several from people outside of South Dakota desperate to find anyone who could help.

[Hermit For Peace]

Oh man, here's a horror story about one woman's journey through hell because of the Texas abortion restrictions and laws on the books. What did the radical right moralists unleash on humanity? I've read that many women are getting their tubes tied so they don't have to deal with possible hell on earth.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2022/07/26/1111280165/because-of-texas-abortion-law-her-wanted-pregnancy-became-a-medical-nightmare

[Hermit For Peace]

And here's a thought to put out there. What if women stopped having sex and having babies? What if women went on a protest? Where would our society be then? How would men like that?

That's how valuable women are to making this country great. And yet, look at what is happening to them on a physical level. We are treating our valuable female citizens who gave life to everyone reading this, as criminals and stupid morons who can't manage their own health and bodies. What a big cringe.

[Progressive Pessimist]

And here's a thought to put out there. What if women stopped having sex and having babies? What if women went on a protest? Where would our society be then? How would men like that?

That's how valuable women are to making this country great. And yet, look at what is happening to them on a physical level. We are treating our valuable female citizens who gave life to everyone reading this, as criminals and stupid morons who can't manage their own health and bodies. What a big cringe.

Interesting, a Lysistrata situation. That would require a pretty big organized effort though.

[Person Man]

And here's a thought to put out there. What if women stopped having sex and having babies? What if women went on a protest? Where would our society be then? How would men like that?

That's how valuable women are to making this country great. And yet, look at what is happening to them on a physical level. We are treating our valuable female citizens who gave life to everyone reading this, as criminals and stupid morons who can't manage their own health and bodies. What a big cringe.

Like I’ve been saying, if enough women just left red states, there would be serious demographic consequences for red states.

[7,052,770]

And here's a thought to put out there. What if women stopped having sex and having babies? What if women went on a protest? Where would our society be then? How would men like that?

That's how valuable women are to making this country great. And yet, look at what is happening to them on a physical level. We are treating our valuable female citizens who gave life to everyone reading this, as criminals and stupid morons who can't manage their own health and bodies. What a big cringe.

Interesting, a Lysistrata situation. That would require a pretty big organized effort though.

The only women who would have any reason to participate would be an activist pro-choice woman married to a man (or woman I guess) who opposed legal abortion, and even then probably only in states where abortion is now illegal. That's a pretty small percentage of marriages right there, and even if they all did it, how many of those affected men would have the power to change anything?

[Skill and Chance]

And here's a thought to put out there. What if women stopped having sex and having babies? What if women went on a protest? Where would our society be then? How would men like that?

That's how valuable women are to making this country great. And yet, look at what is happening to them on a physical level. We are treating our valuable female citizens who gave life to everyone reading this, as criminals and stupid morons who can't manage their own health and bodies. What a big cringe.

Interesting, a Lysistrata situation. That would require a pretty big organized effort though.

To a significant degree, isn't that what many social conservatives would want to happen?

[Person Man]

And here's a thought to put out there. What if women stopped having sex and having babies? What if women went on a protest? Where would our society be then? How would men like that?

That's how valuable women are to making this country great. And yet, look at what is happening to them on a physical level. We are treating our valuable female citizens who gave life to everyone reading this, as criminals and stupid morons who can't manage their own health and bodies. What a big cringe.

Interesting, a Lysistrata situation. That would require a pretty big organized effort though.

To a significant degree, isn't that what many social conservatives would want to happen?

Some of them. But how many of these pro-life men are degenerates? Two of the five men responsible for Roe being overturned are known perverts.

[Progressive Pessimist]

And here's a thought to put out there. What if women stopped having sex and having babies? What if women went on a protest? Where would our society be then? How would men like that?

That's how valuable women are to making this country great. And yet, look at what is happening to them on a physical level. We are treating our valuable female citizens who gave life to everyone reading this, as criminals and stupid morons who can't manage their own health and bodies. What a big cringe.

Interesting, a Lysistrata situation. That would require a pretty big organized effort though.

To a significant degree, isn't that what many social conservatives would want to happen?

Some of them. But how many of these pro-life men are degenerates? Two of the five men responsible for Roe being overturned are known perverts.

*Cough* Scott DesJarlais, Matt Gaetz, Tim Murphy *cough*

[darklordoftech]

Remember the days when people thought that the Religious Right was just a bunch of useful idiots for the real Republican agenda (laissez faire capitalism)?

[OSR stands with Israel]

Remember the days when people thought that the Religious Right was just a bunch of useful idiots for the real Republican agenda (laissez faire capitalism)?

Roe was literally one vote away from being overturned in 1992 and it would have been overturned if not for the Democrats taking control of the senate in 1986. Keep in mind while 8 of the 9 justices in 1992 were appointed by Republican Presidents, only 2 of of the 9 were confirmed by a Republican senate. A Democratic Senate also rejected 3 nominations in this time period and that very likely saved Roe in 1992.

Since 1992 5 justices were nominated by a Republican President but all 5 were confirmed by a Republican Senate and that is why Roe was overturned.

[Person Man]

Remember the days when people thought that the Religious Right was just a bunch of useful idiots for the real Republican agenda (laissez faire capitalism)?

Roe was literally one vote away from being overturned in 1992 and it would have been overturned if not for the Democrats taking control of the senate in 1986. Keep in mind while 8 of the 9 justices in 1992 were appointed by Republican Presidents, only 2 of of the 9 were confirmed by a Republican senate. A Democratic Senate also rejected 3 nominations in this time period and that very likely saved Roe in 1992.

Since 1992 5 justices were nominated by a Republican President but all 5 were confirmed by a Republican Senate and that is why Roe was overturned.

I mean, I agree with you that it took way longer than it should had if it were a priority but it was literally the only major accomplishment that Trump had besides a tax law which is being replaced with other sources of revenue.

[jojoju1998]

Remember the days when people thought that the Religious Right was just a bunch of useful idiots for the real Republican agenda (laissez faire capitalism)?

Well in many ways; the two are combined. The Whole new deal/great society ethos is at stake, as I have said before.

[politicallefty]

Remember the days when people thought that the Religious Right was just a bunch of useful idiots for the real Republican agenda (laissez faire capitalism)?

Roe was literally one vote away from being overturned in 1992 and it would have been overturned if not for the Democrats taking control of the senate in 1986. Keep in mind while 8 of the 9 justices in 1992 were appointed by Republican Presidents, only 2 of of the 9 were confirmed by a Republican senate. A Democratic Senate also rejected 3 nominations in this time period and that very likely saved Roe in 1992.

Since 1992 5 justices were nominated by a Republican President but all 5 were confirmed by a Republican Senate and that is why Roe was overturned.

Roe was overturned because the right-wing created an entire organization (The Federalist Society) for the specific purpose of enacting an agenda through a takeover of the judiciary. It's also worth remembering that Roe didn't even need any Democratic-appointed Justices. Two Eisenhower appointees and three out of four of Nixon's appointees were in the majority.

You like to mention how the Senate killed the Bork nomination, yet you fail to mention that Reagan was not denied a pick. First of all, it's quite possible Bork would've failed to get through a Republican Senate. Six Republicans voted against his confirmation. You can blame Douglas Ginsburg not getting confirmed on the anti-drug hysteria of the '80s. He probably would've been confirmed otherwise and this would be a very different country. As for Nixon's failed nominations, you had 17 and 13 Republicans voting against Haynsworth and Carswell, respectively. I think those two are so controversial that not even Republicans bring them up, unlike Bork.

Of course, you also fail to mention that LBJ was denied his pick to replace Earl Warren. Abe Fortas was filibustered by conservatives, led by Strom Thurmond. If Fortas had gotten through, his successor for Associate Justice would've been Homer Thornberry. They were far more liberal than the Justices that ended up with those seats (Burger and Blackmun). It would've been more conservative than the Warren Court (particularly after Justice Douglas retired), but well to the left of what actually happened.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Remember the days when people thought that the Religious Right was just a bunch of useful idiots for the real Republican agenda (laissez faire capitalism)?

Roe was literally one vote away from being overturned in 1992 and it would have been overturned if not for the Democrats taking control of the senate in 1986. Keep in mind while 8 of the 9 justices in 1992 were appointed by Republican Presidents, only 2 of of the 9 were confirmed by a Republican senate. A Democratic Senate also rejected 3 nominations in this time period and that very likely saved Roe in 1992.

Since 1992 5 justices were nominated by a Republican President but all 5 were confirmed by a Republican Senate and that is why Roe was overturned.

Roe was overturned because the right-wing created an entire organization (The Federalist Society) for the specific purpose of enacting an agenda through a takeover of the judiciary. It's also worth remembering that Roe didn't even need any Democratic-appointed Justices. Two Eisenhower appointees and three out of four of Nixon's appointees were in the majority.

You like to mention how the Senate killed the Bork nomination, yet you fail to mention that Reagan was not denied a pick. First of all, it's quite possible Bork would've failed to get through a Republican Senate. Six Republicans voted against his confirmation. You can blame Douglas Ginsburg not getting confirmed on the anti-drug hysteria of the '80s. He probably would've been confirmed otherwise and this would be a very different country. As for Nixon's failed nominations, you had 17 and 13 Republicans voting against Haynsworth and Carswell, respectively. I think those two are so controversial that not even Republicans bring them up, unlike Bork.

Of course, you also fail to mention that LBJ was denied his pick to replace Earl Warren. Abe Fortas was filibustered by conservatives, led by Strom Thurmond. If Fortas had gotten through, his successor for Associate Justice would've been Homer Thornberry. They were far more liberal than the Justices that ended up with those seats (Burger and Blackmun). It would've been more conservative than the Warren Court (particularly after Justice Douglas retired), but well to the left of what actually happened.

I was just mentioning the importance of which party controls the senate when it comes to these picks and its just misleading to not take this into account. Like yah Haynsworth and Carswell still get rejected with a Republican Senate but its very possible with a Republican Senate Nixon nominates people like say Paul Laxalt , or Malcom Lucas

[Skill and Chance]

Remember the days when people thought that the Religious Right was just a bunch of useful idiots for the real Republican agenda (laissez faire capitalism)?

Roe was literally one vote away from being overturned in 1992 and it would have been overturned if not for the Democrats taking control of the senate in 1986. Keep in mind while 8 of the 9 justices in 1992 were appointed by Republican Presidents, only 2 of of the 9 were confirmed by a Republican senate. A Democratic Senate also rejected 3 nominations in this time period and that very likely saved Roe in 1992.

Since 1992 5 justices were nominated by a Republican President but all 5 were confirmed by a Republican Senate and that is why Roe was overturned.

Roe was overturned because the right-wing created an entire organization (The Federalist Society) for the specific purpose of enacting an agenda through a takeover of the judiciary. It's also worth remembering that Roe didn't even need any Democratic-appointed Justices. Two Eisenhower appointees and three out of four of Nixon's appointees were in the majority.

You like to mention how the Senate killed the Bork nomination, yet you fail to mention that Reagan was not denied a pick. First of all, it's quite possible Bork would've failed to get through a Republican Senate. Six Republicans voted against his confirmation. You can blame Douglas Ginsburg not getting confirmed on the anti-drug hysteria of the '80s. He probably would've been confirmed otherwise and this would be a very different country. As for Nixon's failed nominations, you had 17 and 13 Republicans voting against Haynsworth and Carswell, respectively. I think those two are so controversial that not even Republicans bring them up, unlike Bork.

Of course, you also fail to mention that LBJ was denied his pick to replace Earl Warren. Abe Fortas was filibustered by conservatives, led by Strom Thurmond. If Fortas had gotten through, his successor for Associate Justice would've been Homer Thornberry. They were far more liberal than the Justices that ended up with those seats (Burger and Blackmun). It would've been more conservative than the Warren Court (particularly after Justice Douglas retired), but well to the left of what actually happened.

Interestingly, Carswell was secretly gay and would have lived long enough to hear Bowers v. Hardwick if he had been appointed to SCOTUS.  However, Blackmun already dissented IRL so he couldn't have changed the outcome.  His seat would have been filled by Clinton if he stayed on SCOTUS for the rest of his life.  

[Skill and Chance]

Remember the days when people thought that the Religious Right was just a bunch of useful idiots for the real Republican agenda (laissez faire capitalism)?

Ehhh... the beliefs are more reconcilable than you think.  The guiding principle would be something like "intervening to disrupt what would otherwise happen naturally is usually wrong."  This would also favor isolationism and a hands-off approach to COVID.

[politicallefty]

I was just mentioning the importance of which party controls the senate when it comes to these picks and its just misleading to not take this into account. Like yah Haynsworth and Carswell still get rejected with a Republican Senate but its very possible with a Republican Senate Nixon nominates people like say Paul Laxalt , or Malcom Lucas

Well, a Republican filibuster effectively gave Nixon two appointments that would've otherwise gone to LBJ. That was a concerted effort on the part of the right to move the Court to the right. And the last Republican Senate to approve a Democratic appointee was in 1895.

My overall point though was that Democrats were not opposed to giving Republican Presidents massive deference in terms of their nominees. You don't always swing for the fences with every nominee even when you have the majority. (Even so, Scalia was confirmed unanimously.) Before RBG passed, the Court had a certain equilibrium for decades. That has been completely upended. Even someone as conservative as Roberts as the median Justice was acceptable to the general public (even after decades of people like Powell, O'Connor, and Kennedy in the middle of the Court).

My other point was that Bork could very well have been defeated in a Republican Senate as well.

Haynsworth was openly segregationist in the years leading up to his nomination, which puts him way out of bounds in a way that's distinct from everyone else in this discussion.

Carswell had made segregationist comments in a political speech while running for office in rural Georgia >20 years before his nomination.  Whether or not he still secretly held those views was unclear, but he had publicly disavowed them.  In any event, he was a clear judicial conservative and there's no way he would have joined Roe, let alone written it.  If the other justices were the same, it would have still been 6/3 to legalize abortion, though quite possibly with different reasoning.

Interestingly, Carswell was secretly gay and would have lived long enough to hear Bowers v. Hardwick if he had been appointed to SCOTUS.  However, Blackmun already dissented IRL so he couldn't have changed the outcome.  His seat would have been filled by Clinton if he stayed on SCOTUS for the rest of his life.

My point wasn't about the possibility of either of them being confirmed. It was in response to the fact that three Republican-appointed SCOTUS nominees were defeated under Democratic Senates. That seat ended up going to Blackmun. While he was liberal during his later years, he was generally more conservative in his early years (particularly on the death penalty). I do have to wonder what would've happened if Fortas had become Chief Justice (or if LBJ had picked someone else and they were confirmed in time).