SCOTUS overturns Roe megathread (pg 53 - confirmed)

[jojoju1998]

As a progressive, and as a devout Catholic Myself, I prefer REGULATED ABORTION. Yes. Regulated. Why ?

Abortion is not a right. Nor should it be illegal ( People will still have abortions anyway ).

What should happen is what many countries in Europe have done. Regulate it. A medical service, after serious consultation with one's doctor. Having these steps will hopefully calm things down a little.

Perhaps 12 weeks limit ? And let it stay there.

[jojoju1998]

Also to be fair, the Roe V. Wade decision was shaky legally. Even RBG said it herself.  A right to privacy applied to abortion ? Ehh..

It would have been better if in the 1970s, states legalized it state by state with rules and regulations.

[jojoju1998]

Worth the imminent ban but f**ck the Supreme Court and  anyone who’s gleefully supporting this. You are selfish pricks. I hope you burn in hell, I’ll be happy to see you there.

Goodbye.

Well, I also expect the Supreme Court to overturn the death penalty...

oh wait.

Dignity of Life, and the Human person doesn't apply after one's born.

[jojoju1998]

These people are fascists. Plain and simple.

Grow up

Frankly, you are the one who needs to grow up. Your entire persona on this website is fetishizing 2012 Republicans, yet here you are caping for a court that is one case away from overturning Lawrence, let alone Roe. At long last, have you abandoned any principled opposition to undue government intrusion into private life, any devotion to the separation of church and state that made this country great?

Mitt Romney ran on overturning Roe

Again, couched in theocracy.

What does that make you?

I’m not even a Christian

Being beholden to the arbitrary culture war lines of the Christian right without even being a Christian is perhaps one of the largest Ls I have ever witnessed in terms of political ideology.

Evangelical Protestants weren’t even opposed to Abortion up until the 1970s. It was actually the Catholics who have always opposed abortion, and the death penalty, and supported civil rights, yeah… all life.

But once the civil rights movement was “ over “, the Protestants needed a new bogeyman so they made an alliance with Catholics and the rest is history

[jojoju1998]

This is a leak of a document written in February, so I'm taking it with a grain of salt. But If this is the real opinion they'll be releasing in a few weeks, Praise the LORD. This is not only the legally correct (When you take all the politics out of it, there is no right to abortion in the constitution. It simply isn't there. We invented it in 1973, and have only kept it around this long for public opinion concerns, which is not a legally appropriate basis for Court Decisions.) but also incredibly life-saving Decision. It's also a balanced decision that doesn't threaten Griswold or try to define personhood. It simply leaves abortion to the states. Maryland can allow abortion in the 9th Month, as their laws currently do. Texas can ban it completely if they choose. For the first time in nearly fifty years, people will not be told by a court what to do about abortion, but instead to determine the appropriate destiny for each society through our democracy. And they will remain able to prevent implantation via contraception.

I don't much care who this helps electorally. What I do find praise in is the strengthening of our democracy and the saving of lives that this decision would bring.

Also, if it's all true - Gorsuch, I was wrong about you. I still don't really get why you gave this answer, but glad to see you are actually pro-life. https://youtu.be/Z08EdjHJgoI

Why do you hate women so much?

Nothing about that post suggests he hates women.

Apart from the fact he's salivating over a woman's right to bodily autonomy being revoked.

For the vast majority of cases, women can exercise their right to bodily autonomy by choosing not to engage in acts they know can result in pregnancy.

And with that, you confirm you hate women too.

I am a woman. My opinion on the issue has more value than yours.

Not when your opinion is in favor of restricting other women's rights. And newsflash, there are women who hate other women. Being a woman doesn't mean you cannot be capable of hating women. Not saying that you do hate women, but you being a woman doesn't make your opinion right.

Why can’t we just regulate abortion as a Medical Service ? Many countries, from my understanding, don’t see Abortion as a right but as a service, but it gives the government the right to regulate such services.

I want regulated abortion. Laws and healthcare experts should be involved. Not 80 year old justices

[jojoju1998]

Christian Nationalism wins tonight, the soul of America loses.

We're going to need motivation from pro-choice this Fall, because this is a serious backwards to the health and safety of woman in our country. A certain segment of the country is more concerned with punishing woman than providing them the most available option for an abortion, however they find it troubling.

For every demon that votes this November, true Christians who are willing to do anything to defend God's designs will stand firm and defeat the vote of evil.

True Christians also help women who have been affected by unwanted pregnancies instead of leaving them out to dry and saying that rape is a opportunity.

[jojoju1998]

look I know mr x can be disingenuous but its obvious what he's talking about. As I said above, people in this thread are fear mongering about the SCOTUS using the same logic to overturn Griswold/Obergefell/Lawrence. That's absolutely concern trolling

Obergefell and Lawrence sure, but how is Griswold not under threat from this decision? I'm hardly a legal scholar, but from my skimming of the opinion and prior knowledge of both cases, it seems like Griswold and Roe were decided on similar bases. Wouldn't a decision overturning Roe necessarily indicate that Griswold is suspect?

Yes. The right to privacy is a very shaky one.

[jojoju1998]

It’s the height of hypocrisy of the same “pro lifers” to then fight against expanding the social safety net for prospective mothers. If you do not support universal healthcare and guaranteed paid maternal leave at the VERY minimum, I don’t want to hear pro life out of your mouth. I am pro life, 99% of the rest of these “pro lifers” only want to get high off their power.

Well I do. Protecting life at all stages from conception to natural death.

Also. Higher wages. Unions. Protecting migrants. All of that comes into play. All life.

[jojoju1998]

It’s the height of hypocrisy of the same “pro lifers” to then fight against expanding the social safety net for prospective mothers. If you do not support universal healthcare and guaranteed paid maternal leave at the VERY minimum, I don’t want to hear pro life out of your mouth. I am pro life, 99% of the rest of these “pro lifers” only want to get high off their power.

Well I do. Protecting life at all stages from conception to natural death.

Also. Higher wages. Unions. Protecting migrants. All of that comes into play. All life.

I know, you’re a rare breed.

The Catholic Church might have problems, but least it's consistent on the life part.

ALL LIFE. Migrants, The elderly, the poor, the unborn, the mentally disabled, BLM, all of that comes into play.

[jojoju1998]

It’s the height of hypocrisy of the same “pro lifers” to then fight against expanding the social safety net for prospective mothers. If you do not support universal healthcare and guaranteed paid maternal leave at the VERY minimum, I don’t want to hear pro life out of your mouth. I am pro life, 99% of the rest of these “pro lifers” only want to get high off their power.

I do. Keep ObamaCare and add in the Public Option. Enthusiastically continue to provide federal feeding/health care/etc. programs for mothers and their children. Robustly fund and support adoption, including a right to drop off your baby at an orphanage, no questions asked, if you cannot care for it. I support Build Back Better as passed by the House, which includes universal paid leave. I support closing the gender pay gap legislatively. I support protecting unions with the PRO act so Women can have better working conditions. I support decriminalizing non-violent drug offenses so we aren't separating families over minor matters. I support an aggressive fight against any company that would discriminate based on pregnancy status, or status of being a mother, for purposes of hiring, retention, or promotion.

I simply reject the idea that in order to support Women, we have to support their effectively unfettered ability to kill another. The US, until now, was one of just seven countries, including North Korea, allowing unfettered access to elective abortion. Today, that begins to change.

We are more socially liberal on this issue than most other countries, including Norway, France, Germany, the UK.

[jojoju1998]

It’s the height of hypocrisy of the same “pro lifers” to then fight against expanding the social safety net for prospective mothers. If you do not support universal healthcare and guaranteed paid maternal leave at the VERY minimum, I don’t want to hear pro life out of your mouth. I am pro life, 99% of the rest of these “pro lifers” only want to get high off their power.

I agree with the sentiment, but I think this type of gatekeeping does a disservice to the movement. You can lock arms with people you think are hypocrites.

HARD NO!
One cannot live without the other. This is not negotiable, this is human life.

By the way, Republicans will never support paid family leave, universal prek and childcare, because all they care about is power. They don't care about life. They don't care about the dignity of work, of every human person.

[jojoju1998]

It’s the height of hypocrisy of the same “pro lifers” to then fight against expanding the social safety net for prospective mothers. If you do not support universal healthcare and guaranteed paid maternal leave at the VERY minimum, I don’t want to hear pro life out of your mouth. I am pro life, 99% of the rest of these “pro lifers” only want to get high off their power.

I agree with the sentiment, but I think this type of gatekeeping does a disservice to the movement. You can lock arms with people you think are hypocrites.

HARD NO!
One cannot live without the other. This is not negotiable, this is human life.

I would not be particularly picky with my political allies if the debate was over whether murder should be legal or not (from a pro-life perspective).

It’s the height of hypocrisy of the same “pro lifers” to then fight against expanding the social safety net for prospective mothers. If you do not support universal healthcare and guaranteed paid maternal leave at the VERY minimum, I don’t want to hear pro life out of your mouth. I am pro life, 99% of the rest of these “pro lifers” only want to get high off their power.

I agree with the sentiment, but I think this type of gatekeeping does a disservice to the movement. You can lock arms with people you think are hypocrites.

HARD NO!
One cannot live without the other. This is not negotiable, this is human life.

By the way, Republicans will never support paid family leave, universal prek and childcare, because all they care about is power. They don't care about life. They don't care about the dignity of work, of every human person.

I am a (registered) Republican and I support all of these things. Nobody in the real world cares about "power" except, like, the people in government, but even then I don't think you would apply the same level of scrutiny to their opposition.

Well thank you for being consistent !

Per wikipedia

When the United States became independent, most states applied English common law to abortion. This meant it was not permitted after quickening, or the start of fetal movements, usually felt 15–20 weeks after conception.

Can't we just default to this + life of the mother and call it a day? I think we had it right and started overanalyzing.

That's most countries. The US is a rare one for having such lax abortion laws.

France is up to 12 weeks.

[jojoju1998]

In any case, as I said a few days ago, the median American voter is more moderate on abortion than the politicians are. A national 20-week abortion guarantee and ban would be very popular, but Congress would never pass it.

     This is something that falls on deaf ears here. Everytime a topic is made on abortion, it is a matter of time before someone posts a chart and declares America is majority pro-choice. More granular surveys find that the median voter supports abortion on demand in the first trimester only, which is a view effectively unrepresented among our elected officeholders.

Abortion on demand in the first trimester only IS what the rest of the world does.

[jojoju1998]

I'm sure those cheering this decision will be the first among us to support ensuring Medicaid for pregnant women and ensuring that those born will be ensured healthcare throughout childhood, right?

Yes. As a Pro Life Progressive, Yes.

Makes me a rairity, but so be it. It's progresisve to support life.

[jojoju1998]

Will this accelerate the population’s migration away from religion, as more and more people get fed up with these people shoving their religious beliefs down our throats?

Will this accelerate the population’s migration away from religion, as more and more people get fed up with these people shoving their religious beliefs down our throats?

Lol. Christians have been against killing the unborn since i was unborn and im 30.

I will repeat this.

Catholics have always been the ones against abortion, evangelical christians didn't care that much for it until the civil rights movement ended and they needed a new bogeyman to replace civil rights.

[jojoju1998]

There's a reason Christianity is dying among young people in this country. And it has to do with Christians themselves. Idc if you belong to "mainline" church. The face of Christianity in this country is evangelicalism. An ideology using religion as a tool to fight back against any social progress made since the 1950s (plus gutting public education). Luckily for them they have crazy right-wing Catholics to use as an ally.

The only positive with these decisions is that more young people will shun religion as its only use nowadays is a being a tool for the right.

It's sad because there are lots of young people that want to go to church, mass, explore their faith and spiritual beliefs, but it became so politicized.  It really became almost a part of one party (the Republicans), and I do agree with many evangelicals that say it's become too focused on these issues where it really cannot change the whole of society.  There's issues that have been so neglected - poverty, especially in children, hunger and food insecurity, homelessness, not being able to afford a family, not being able to keep families together - but they have been so narrow-minded.  Even at Liberty University there's students who are really starting to question this undying loyalty to one man (Trump) and how that really does not match the ideals they have.

Catholic Social Teaching :

The defense of human life, from conception to natural death. Poverty, Homelessness, immigration, are all part of the pro life frame work.


Many Catholics don't believe this themselves, although it's stated clearly in the teachings of the church damn it !

[jojoju1998]

https://twitter.com/GovPhilScott/status/1521492552704217093?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoog...

You know I wonder if there would be more interference ala Austria style regulation if we had a universal public healthcare system to begin with.

This debate over rights and autonomy assumes that everything in healthcare is a private matter.

In many other countries, since Healthcare is a right, it gives the government the right to regulate all healthcare services, including abortion.

[jojoju1998]

2. This is actually legally terrible. Contrary to popular belief, Roe's legal basis is solid. This is the exact sort of thing that a majoritarian legislature *shouldn't* have the right to weigh in on. The commerce clause is also fine, Dule.

Ok, so despite me being firmly pro-choice and thinking the leaked ruling is awful; this is a part I don't understand.

I actually have a very easy time imagining the US constitution recognizing some sort of vague (and honestly, not so vague) right to privacy. My issue is with the jump from "right to privacy" meaning "right to have an abortion".

There's perhaps an argument to be made about medical documents, or perhaps not disclosing your pregnancy status to your employers; but I struggle to ser how that extends to outright abortion being a right

THIS IS WHERE I AM AIMING AT IN MY POSTS ! BUT NO ONE UNDERSTANDS MY POINT.

[jojoju1998]

Absolutely disgusting, if true.

What I think many abortion ban proponents and Republican politicians don't get that statewide bans are primarily a war on poor women, who happen to be disproportionally black or Hispanic. Anyone from a conservative state with enough money is just going to sit in a plane and have an abortion in California, New York or Illinois, or somewhere abroad. All it does is preventing abortions for less wealthy women/families.

Furthermore, this is just a move backwards by a minority wanting to impose their moral views on society as a whole. Of course anything should be done to prevent abortions and late-term be restricted, but a total ban in some states is not a good idea. Generally, I believe abortion should be rare and legal.

It's what happens when the Supreme Court becomes a partisan and political organization.

A President can appoint a Supreme court justice that leans his or her way, with no regard to bipartisanship, neutrality,

[jojoju1998]

Again I ask of our Republican "friends"...

Imagine you have a 12 year old daughter who is raped with no access to a safe, legal abortion.

How do you feel about it?

They think rape is a opportunity.

[jojoju1998]

https://twitter.com/BarackObama/status/1521569658960240642

Obama in another life, could have been a supreme court justice.

[jojoju1998]

A couple of decades from now, when crime rates suddenly explode, we need to remember that THIS is why and not because of whoever is president around 2040.

It will literally be Trump's fault.

But that's exactly what they want.

Screw things up to create chaos, and take advantage of that chaos.

[jojoju1998]

https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1521673584116178944?cxt=HHwWgIC51YCEiZ4qAAAA

This is a good sign for democrats. They know they’re gonna get rocked if they overturn it. Let’s hope we can actually do something with it

Or it could produce the reverse effect. Republicans can be like " Democrats don't care about your pocketbook and they want to pursue radical social policies. ".

[jojoju1998]

Here's a deep question. If the pregnant women is comatose, and puling the plug would also mean the death of the fetus, would it be considered an abortion ? Who gives the right to decide what happens to the mother AND the baby ?

[jojoju1998]

https://twitter.com/mjs_DC/status/1522044847254872064

Republicans are monsters

If this comes to be and things get this bad, it almost becomes morally imperative to take things into your own hands. At the very least, sane people should evacuate.

But most people won't, because they have their lives and jobs and Families to deal with along with the communities they've lived in 4 years oh, and this will only become an issue when an f and unintended pregnancy arises, which people don't expect hence the term unintended.

And even then, those who struggle the most economically, which are hardly just the poor, and rely on a social network of family and close friends for not only immediate financial support but in direct financial support with things like Child Care, aren't going to have the wherewithal too readily locate even when an unintended pregnancy arises.

Progressives are going to have to create an underground railroad system to finance getting poor women in red States who want to terminate their pregnancy to the safety of a blue State, and litigate the inevitable Dred Scott Fugitive Slave Act style laws Republicans will inevitably enact.

Edit: and Kylie don't criticize me for posting something like eight things in a row. I don't live online, and simply took some time in my mid morning routine to go through the thread and respond to posts as I read them

Oh Jesus, we're going into Civil War aren't we ?