SCOTUS overturns Roe megathread (pg 53 - confirmed)

[Hermit For Peace]

Abortion should not be left up to legislators. Kansas was able to vote on the matter and the people chose to keep abortion practices in tact. What the majority of American people want is far more valuable than what a bunch of disinterested political folks try to force us to want. But we live in a patriarchal society where what is good for the woman is not necessarily the path we follow, and that's how the cookie crumbles.

[Skill and Chance]

Abortion should not be left up to legislators. Kansas was able to vote on the matter and the people chose to keep abortion practices in tact. What the majority of American people want is far more valuable than what a bunch of disinterested political folks try to force us to want. But we live in a patriarchal society where what is good for the woman is not necessarily the path we follow, and that's how the cookie crumbles.

I'm not sure this is so clear cut.  More women than men have voted in every presidential election since 1984, and women outvote men most dramatically in the Deep South (most Southern states had 55%+ female electorates in 2020).  That timeframe covers the appointments of the entire current SCOTUS.  To whatever extent current policy doesn't reflect what women want, it's a huge stretch to blame men at this point.  This goes doubly so for state-level policy in the South.

[Hermit For Peace]

Abortion should not be left up to legislators. Kansas was able to vote on the matter and the people chose to keep abortion practices in tact. What the majority of American people want is far more valuable than what a bunch of disinterested political folks try to force us to want. But we live in a patriarchal society where what is good for the woman is not necessarily the path we follow, and that's how the cookie crumbles.

I'm not sure this is so clear cut.  More women than men have voted in every presidential election since 1984, and women outvote men most dramatically in the Deep South (most Southern states had 55%+ female electorates in 2020).  That timeframe covers the appointments of the entire current SCOTUS.  To whatever extent current policy doesn't reflect what women want, it's a huge stretch to blame men at this point.  This goes doubly so for state-level policy in the South.

Voting is not quite the same as women being treated "differently" than men in society. It's still a male dominated society we're living in, although it's changing very slowly. How many presidents have been female? How many CEOs are female? How many representatives in congress are female? Women have a higher instance of living in poverty than men, especially single mothers. It's not so much about blaming men as it is that we are still living in a male dominated society because that's how it's always been.

[Skill and Chance]

Abortion should not be left up to legislators. Kansas was able to vote on the matter and the people chose to keep abortion practices in tact. What the majority of American people want is far more valuable than what a bunch of disinterested political folks try to force us to want. But we live in a patriarchal society where what is good for the woman is not necessarily the path we follow, and that's how the cookie crumbles.

I'm not sure this is so clear cut.  More women than men have voted in every presidential election since 1984, and women outvote men most dramatically in the Deep South (most Southern states had 55%+ female electorates in 2020).  That timeframe covers the appointments of the entire current SCOTUS.  To whatever extent current policy doesn't reflect what women want, it's a huge stretch to blame men at this point.  This goes doubly so for state-level policy in the South.

Voting is not quite the same as women being treated "differently" than men in society. It's still a male dominated society we're living in, although it's changing very slowly. How many presidents have been female? How many CEOs are female? How many representatives in congress are female? Women have a higher instance of living in poverty than men, especially single mothers. It's not so much about blaming men as it is that we are still living in a male dominated society because that's how it's always been.

However, this isn't about a male CEO setting sexist corporate policy, this is about government policy, which a majority of voters reasonably control over the 40 year long run.  Also, while corporate senior management hasn't shifted much, women are the majority at every level of higher education now, including doctors and lawyers.  In some educational settings, it's a 60/40 majority or higher.  Even the corporate senior management thing could be addressed through Scandinavian style mandates if you have a clear majority of votes  and make it a top priority.

A more likely scenario is the male CEO's wife is voting to maximize his influence/opportunity/income rather than her own and cumulatively there's enough of this going on to mostly maintain the status quo (~20% of married mothers don't formally work).  But it's still a choice those women are making as to what their best interests are, right?

[Hermit For Peace]

Abortion should not be left up to legislators. Kansas was able to vote on the matter and the people chose to keep abortion practices in tact. What the majority of American people want is far more valuable than what a bunch of disinterested political folks try to force us to want. But we live in a patriarchal society where what is good for the woman is not necessarily the path we follow, and that's how the cookie crumbles.

I'm not sure this is so clear cut.  More women than men have voted in every presidential election since 1984, and women outvote men most dramatically in the Deep South (most Southern states had 55%+ female electorates in 2020).  That timeframe covers the appointments of the entire current SCOTUS.  To whatever extent current policy doesn't reflect what women want, it's a huge stretch to blame men at this point.  This goes doubly so for state-level policy in the South.

Voting is not quite the same as women being treated "differently" than men in society. It's still a male dominated society we're living in, although it's changing very slowly. How many presidents have been female? How many CEOs are female? How many representatives in congress are female? Women have a higher instance of living in poverty than men, especially single mothers. It's not so much about blaming men as it is that we are still living in a male dominated society because that's how it's always been.

However, this isn't about a male CEO setting sexist corporate policy, this is about government policy, which a majority of voters reasonably control over the 40 year long run.  Also, while corporate senior management hasn't shifted much, women are the majority at every level of higher education now, including doctors and lawyers.  In some educational settings, it's a 60/40 majority or higher.  Even the corporate senior management thing could be addressed through Scandinavian style mandates if you have a clear majority of votes  and make it a top priority.

A more likely scenario is the male CEO's wife is voting to maximize his influence/opportunity/income rather than her own and cumulatively there's enough of this going on to mostly maintain the status quo (~20% of married mothers don't formally work).  But it's still a choice those women are making as to what their best interests are, right?

That's the ideal, but we don't live in an ideal world. Life is complicated and people are influenced by social programming and also social events that are beyond their control.

[jojoju1998]

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1556009739171119105

So much for Red States are better for the economy.

It’s more than just tax cuts folks.

[Person Man]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/abortion-vote-recount-under-way-in-kansas/ar-AA10BWNu?li=BBnbfcL

They really don’t like democracy.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/abortion-vote-recount-under-way-in-kansas/ar-AA10BWNu?li=BBnbfcL

They really don’t like democracy.

When tens of millions of American voters across over 30 states voted to amend their state constitutions to ban same-sex marriage, Democrats did not like democracy either. All those voters were "homophobic."

Yes.

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/abortion-vote-recount-under-way-in-kansas/ar-AA10BWNu?li=BBnbfcL

They really don’t like democracy.

When tens of millions of American voters across over 30 states voted to amend their state constitutions to ban same-sex marriage, Democrats did not like democracy either. All those voters were "homophobic."

I strongly doubt that the Democrats asked for recounts or challenged any of those results that they lost by almost 20%.  Feel free to provide examples if there were any.

[NOVA Green]

Don't believe this has yet been noted on this thread, since it might be relatively "breaking news story" for those living in US EST zone, plus being a Friday Night and all that awesome sh!t.

Idaho’s strict abortion bans will be allowed to take effect while legal challenges over the laws play out, the Idaho Supreme Court ruled on Friday.

A doctor and a regional Planned Parenthood affiliate sued the state earlier this year over three anti-abortion laws, all of which were designed to take effect this year now that the U.S. Supreme Court has overturned Roe v. Wade.

Under the ruling, a near-total criminalizing of all abortions — but allowing doctors to defend themselves at trial by claiming the abortion was done to save the pregnant person’s life — will take effect Aug. 25.

https://www.oregonlive.com/politics/2022/08/idaho-supreme-court-wont-block-states-strict-abortion-bans.html

Brief musical interlude...

Malvina Reynolds:

Judy Small

Still at least it might not be that difficult for working-class and poorer residents from Idaho to potentially be able to travel over the border to Washington or Oregon to obtain medically necessary procedures, and quite possibly even funded by taxpayer dollars.

Price of gas continues to drop, but still a bit of a slog from even Boise to a nearby clinic in OR or WA.

I strongly suspect that the ID-PUB "abortion overreach" might cause them a bit of hits within both congressional districts, as well as issues when it comes to even the faith based community.

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/state/idaho/

https://stateimpact.npr.org/idaho/2012/12/13/legislators-religions-align-closely-with-idahoans-except-for-catholics-and-mormons/

https://www.idahopress.com/news/local/census-on-american-religion-ada-canyon-counties-among-idahos-most-religiously-diverse/article_51549731-bcb8-5af0-af85-8fbf9166d231.html

[Skill and Chance]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/abortion-vote-recount-under-way-in-kansas/ar-AA10BWNu?li=BBnbfcL

They really don’t like democracy.

State officials didn't initiate this.  It appears they have a law on the books where one crazy and relatively rich person can singlehandedly force a recount of anything.

[Person Man]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/abortion-vote-recount-under-way-in-kansas/ar-AA10BWNu?li=BBnbfcL

They really don’t like democracy.

State officials didn't initiate this.  It appears they have a law on the books where one crazy and relatively rich person can singlehandedly force a recount of anything.

Someone has trouble with the concept of Consent of the Governed regardless.

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/greenhousenyt/status/1558541651592859649

[Progressive Pessimist]

https://twitter.com/greenhousenyt/status/1558541651592859649

This will hopefully drive up Dane County turnout.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

https://twitter.com/greenhousenyt/status/1558541651592859649

This will hopefully drive up Dane County turnout.

Enough to save Evers, sure, but he's still going to have this legislature to deal with because it's about as gerrymandered as apartheid South Africa.

[Person Man]

https://twitter.com/greenhousenyt/status/1558541651592859649

This will hopefully drive up Dane County turnout.

Enough to save Evers, sure, but he's still going to have this legislature to deal with because it's about as gerrymandered as apartheid South Africa.

Wisconsin is a Jim Crow state at least on this issue.

[wesmoorenerd]

https://twitter.com/greenhousenyt/status/1558541651592859649

This will hopefully drive up Dane County turnout.

Enough to save Evers, sure, but he's still going to have this legislature to deal with because it's about as gerrymandered as apartheid South Africa.

Wisconsin is a Jim Crow state at least on this issue.

the feds unironically need to step in with regards to WI gerrymandering. it's bad enough that the state is basically no longer a functional democracy.

[Hermit For Peace]

https://twitter.com/greenhousenyt/status/1558541651592859649

This will hopefully drive up Dane County turnout.

Enough to save Evers, sure, but he's still going to have this legislature to deal with because it's about as gerrymandered as apartheid South Africa.

Wisconsin is a Jim Crow state at least on this issue.

All my relatives were from Wisconsin. Glad my mother and father migrated to California, the land of the free. They knew that something was wrong with staying in WI. That state certainly did not have the opportunities that California offered. Not to mention the weather in San Diego was ideal. Also not to mention that California does not live in the backwoods of time like WI and all those other small-minded states.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

https://twitter.com/greenhousenyt/status/1558541651592859649

This will hopefully drive up Dane County turnout.

Enough to save Evers, sure, but he's still going to have this legislature to deal with because it's about as gerrymandered as apartheid South Africa.

Wisconsin is a Jim Crow state at least on this issue.

the feds unironically need to step in with regards to WI gerrymandering. it's bad enough that the state is basically no longer a functional democracy.

Sadly, the Supreme Court has decided (for some reason) that they can’t decide (or just don’t feel like deciding) what a “republican form of government” is.

[Progressive Pessimist]

https://twitter.com/greenhousenyt/status/1558541651592859649

This will hopefully drive up Dane County turnout.

Enough to save Evers, sure, but he's still going to have this legislature to deal with because it's about as gerrymandered as apartheid South Africa.

It's still better than Michels becoming a rubber stamp for the legislature.

[Person Man]

https://twitter.com/greenhousenyt/status/1558541651592859649

This will hopefully drive up Dane County turnout.

Enough to save Evers, sure, but he's still going to have this legislature to deal with because it's about as gerrymandered as apartheid South Africa.

It's still better than Michels becoming a rubber stamp for the legislature.

Who themselves are just a rubber stamp of the local religious establishment and dealership  owners.

[Person Man]

the feds unironically need to step in with regards to WI gerrymandering. it's bad enough that the state is basically no longer a functional democracy.

Sadly, the Supreme Court has decided (for some reason) that they can’t decide (or just don’t feel like deciding) what a “republican form of government” is.

That is an opportunity, not an obstacle. It's up to Congress (Democrat) or the executive (Democrat) to determine what a "republican form of government" is, and the Court (Republican) lacks the power to review their definitions.

Didn’t Huckabee talk about sending the National Guard in to overthrow liberal state governments?

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

the feds unironically need to step in with regards to WI gerrymandering. it's bad enough that the state is basically no longer a functional democracy.

Sadly, the Supreme Court has decided (for some reason) that they can’t decide (or just don’t feel like deciding) what a “republican form of government” is.

That is an opportunity, not an obstacle. It's up to Congress (Democrat) or the executive (Democrat) to determine what a "republican form of government" is, and the Court (Republican) lacks the power to review their definitions.

The Court "lacks" that power now. We'll see how long it takes for them to suddenly discover otherwise once the Youth Pastor Dans and Honda Dealer Hals of WOW and Oshkosh can't get 64% of seats in the legislature on 45% of the vote any longer.

[Skill and Chance]

the feds unironically need to step in with regards to WI gerrymandering. it's bad enough that the state is basically no longer a functional democracy.

Sadly, the Supreme Court has decided (for some reason) that they can’t decide (or just don’t feel like deciding) what a “republican form of government” is.

That is an opportunity, not an obstacle. It's up to Congress (Democrat) or the executive (Democrat) to determine what a "republican form of government" is, and the Court (Republican) lacks the power to review their definitions.

The Court "lacks" that power now. We'll see how long it takes for them to suddenly discover otherwise once the Youth Pastor Dans and Honda Dealer Hals of WOW and Oshkosh can't get 64% of seats in the legislature on 45% of the vote any longer.

This is an interesting point.  With the current membership of SCOTUS, if they did decide to intervene under the republican form of government clause it would more likely be "republican form of government = legislature must have the final say on as many issues as possible."  For example, allowing ballot initiatives to change the laws against the wishes of the elected representatives could easily be ruled to not be "republican" in nature by a court motivated enough to limit the impact of initiatives.

[Skill and Chance]

https://twitter.com/greenhousenyt/status/1558541651592859649

This will hopefully drive up Dane County turnout.

Enough to save Evers, sure, but he's still going to have this legislature to deal with because it's about as gerrymandered as apartheid South Africa.

It's still better than Michels becoming a rubber stamp for the legislature.

Who themselves are just a rubber stamp of the local religious establishment and dealership  owners.

IDK though at least their state senate districts have to have equal population.  And their governor will have to win the most votes statewide.  And their attorney general will be elected independently and so can confidently act independently of their governor.  In half the states (sadly not including Wisconsin), the voters can have the final say by referendum.  State government is arguably more democratic than the federal government, even with gerrymandering (and there's still plenty of it in the US House).  If your #1 concern is democracy, you should probably want everything other than war/foreign relations to be handled at the state level.