PA-SN 2022 megathread: Shrek vs. The Wizard of Oz

[ProgressiveModerate]

https://twitter.com/Cernovich/status/1567297054791335936

Tilt Fetterman -> Tilt Oz

Can anyone really confidently say Lamb would be doing worse than Fetterman at this point? Between the jogger ad designed to depress black turnout, debate dodge, and the incoherent speeches. Oz has more of opening than he ever would’ve with Lamb.

Tbf, I don’t think Lamb would’ve ever capitalized on Oz’s flaws the way Fetterman has pretty successfully, and honestly would’ve likely let Oz steal more of the narrative. It’s really impossible to say but I still think Fetterman was the strongest candidate.

[Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom]

https://twitter.com/Cernovich/status/1567297054791335936
Tilt Fetterman -> Tilt Oz

Can anyone really confidently say Lamb would be doing worse than Fetterman at this point? Between the jogger ad designed to depress black turnout, debate dodge, and the incoherent speeches. Oz has more of opening than he ever would’ve with Lamb.

Yes, Dr. Oz is seen positively and very relatable among Black voters. WTF

[Anti Democrat Democrat Club]

Can anyone really confidently say Lamb would be doing worse than Fetterman at this point? Between the jogger ad designed to depress black turnout, debate dodge, and the incoherent speeches. Oz has more of opening than he ever would’ve with Lamb.

Absolutely. Oz would be running ads on repeat about Lamb endorsing the Philly mask mandate, and Lamb would be running a much more boilerplate, less savvy campaign. He certainly wouldn't be nationally talked about like Fetterman is.

This is what we're up against, folks. When a centrist wins, most progressives do the mature thing and back the centrist. Real life isn't Talk Elections or Twitter, and the Sawxes of the world don't exist in meaningful numbers. When Joe Biden won in Super Tuesday, I didn't dredge up a bunch of concerns about him being old. I backed him like a normal person, and I supported him in the general as enthusiastically as I did Bernie.

When a progressive wins a primary, the centrists turn their knives on us. They make up scandals against us. They call on someone - anyone - to run against us. And when they do, they back them as if they were the rightful nominee. First, they did it to Kara Eastman and India Walton. Now they do it to a normal Democrat for the horrible crime of backing Bernie Sanders six years ago.

This is what separates Blue MAGA from a normal centrist or a Dem hack. They don't care about Fetterman's health. They know his speaking or his appearances aren't issues. They just see it as an opportunity to throw their own January 6th, overturn a free and fair election, and install their candidate as the Democratic nominee. They'd rather lose with Lamb than win with Fetterman, because the thing they fear most is a powerful progressive who can change the status quo. Even if it means 6 years of Oz and sacrificing the majority.

[Anti Democrat Democrat Club]

https://twitter.com/Cernovich/status/1567297054791335936
Tilt Fetterman -> Tilt Oz

Can anyone really confidently say Lamb would be doing worse than Fetterman at this point? Between the jogger ad designed to depress black turnout, debate dodge, and the incoherent speeches. Oz has more of opening than he ever would’ve with Lamb.

Yes, Dr. Oz is seen positively and very relatable among Black voters. WTF

Trust me, henster is aware of this. He just prefers Oz over Fetterman.

[Pulaski]

https://twitter.com/JamesFallows/status/1566157682763042816

A violation of the Hippocratic oath and grounds to be struck off.

[Pulaski]

https://twitter.com/Jezebel/status/1567242496497045504

........what?

Not a big deal. Leaving aside the morality/legality of it, I interpret him saying that it's not really a safety concern if they're further than first cousins apart, which it isn't.

A little weird the way he decided to answer the question, but he's a weird guy.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

https://twitter.com/Cernovich/status/1567297054791335936

Tilt Fetterman -> Tilt Oz

Can anyone really confidently say Lamb would be doing worse than Fetterman at this point? Between the jogger ad designed to depress black turnout, debate dodge, and the incoherent speeches. Oz has more of opening than he ever would’ve with Lamb.

Irrelevant.  Fetterman is the nominee and he’ll make a phenomenal Senator.  We need to be united behind him right now, not parroting BS Republican talking points or complaining about Lamb losing the primary.

[wbrocks67]

Once again, I see that the GOP going after Fetterman's speech patterns is incredibly gross. Just because you have a hard time speaking after a stroke does not mean that your brain dead or something. The assumption that these two are correlated is once again completely disrespectful to anyone with some type of disability. Oh you don't speak like the rest of us? Your brain must be fried.

It would seem he has good days and bad days. I also think there is something to be said about having a free-flowing conversation versus having to remember different items to check off. In the MSNBC interview, he was pretty much completely fine, I think b/c he wasn't trying to rattle off remembered talking points. I think he probably gets more nervous in bigger settings too to make sure he says all the stuff that he planned out to say.

But again, back to the good and bad days. The video of him speaking on Labor Day was much better than that.

It's clear the GOP and Oz are completely desperate so they're willing to do whatever they can.

[Xing]

Based on the replies, I was expecting to hear Fetterman literally gasping for air and rambling unintelligibly. I actually watched the clip, and… he sounds a bit tired I guess? And made one slip up or two? This does not seem like some damning sound bite that will cost him 4-5% of the vote like some are acting like it will, particularly if it was just in that particular moment that he slipped up once and the rest of his speech was fine. To be clear, Fetterman doesn’t have this race in the bag and he never has, but this feels like quite the overreaction. Not that this sort of thing isn’t par for the course for Atlas.

[wbrocks67]

Based on the replies, I was expecting to hear Fetterman literally gasping for air and rambling unintelligibly. I actually watched the clip, and… he sounds a bit tired I guess? And made one slip up or two? This does not seem like some damning sound bite that will cost him 4-5% of the vote like some are acting like it will, particularly if it was just in that particular moment that he slipped up once and the rest of his speech was fine. To be clear, Fetterman doesn’t have this race in the bag and he never has, but this feels like quite the overreaction. Not that this sort of thing isn’t par for the course for Atlas.

Well and this is what the GOP has been doing - taking bits and pieces of Fettermans speeches and then amplifying the 'worst' parts of them to try and set this narrative that just because he takes a few breaths or mixes up a word that he's incapable of being a senator.

Much like the focus group we saw, I don't really see how this doesn't backfire on Republicans. Everyone in their life knows someone who has come back from a health scare or incident. And those people are also fine to get back out there and get a job. The implications coming from the GOP on this are really gross. "if you had a stroke, sorry, you better stay at home forever because you're worthless to society and braindead!" What a winning message.

[GALeftist]

Based on the replies, I was expecting to hear Fetterman literally gasping for air and rambling unintelligibly. I actually watched the clip, and… he sounds a bit tired I guess? And made one slip up or two? This does not seem like some damning sound bite that will cost him 4-5% of the vote like some are acting like it will, particularly if it was just in that particular moment that he slipped up once and the rest of his speech was fine. To be clear, Fetterman doesn’t have this race in the bag and he never has, but this feels like quite the overreaction. Not that this sort of thing isn’t par for the course for Atlas.

Yeah, I mean, we've all seen him speaking clearly elsewhere, it's obvious that his brain is still functioning properly to some degree at a bare minimum. I'm obviously not a doctor but my uneducated opinion is that this seems like post-stroke aphasia; as long as it doesn't get worse to the point that communication is extremely difficult or impossible, I don't see why it would hinder his performance as a US Senator, and it's definitely better than a lot of other things which can happen after strokes, like amnesia or confusion. (I'd also like to note that this is yet another example of people holding Herschel Walker to a wildly different standard.)

[roxas11]

In my opinion Dr OZ biggest hurdle when it comes to winning this race is not John Fetterman its Doug Mastriano


This is the biggest reason why I think OZ attacks on John Fetterman health are ultimately pointless because the reality is if Doug mastriano loses the Governor race he is probably going to drag OZ down with him..

If I was OZ and the GOP I would be focusing way more on trying to get Doug Mastriano across the Finish Line than I would be on John Fetterman health issues right about now because come November if Mastriano goes down in defeat he is most likely taking OZ and the GOP down with him...

[riceowl]

Ugh I don't like this. I'm newly concerned about Fetterman's chances.

[wbrocks67]

Ugh I don't like this. I'm newly concerned about Fetterman's chances.

No concern trolling in this thread.

[RussFeingoldWasRobbed]

Ugh I don't like this. I'm newly concerned about Fetterman's chances.

Susan Collins is that you? /s

[riceowl]

Haha sorry about it, I just had the sudden shivers. Feel free to ignore or to comfort

[This user has not been convicted of 34 felonies]

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

https://twitter.com/Jezebel/status/1567242496497045504
........what?

EDIT:

My daughters hate my smell.

Debating making this my new signature

Why does Jezebel of all places consider second-cousin romance to be "incest"?   Are they late medieval Catholic bishops?

American society in general is incredibly persnickety about consanginuity by world standards. It might be a holdover from the strength the eugenics movement once had here or something.

The issue with that is eugenics is complete bs, whereas there are actual genealogical concerns over incest.

Sure, but second cousins is really not that closely related compared to what other societies normally use the word "incest" to mean.

Regardless, Oz's remark is creepy irrespective of the point he was trying to make and contributes to the perception that he's a wacko with little or no idea how the people he wants to be his constituents talk and think, which is the main issue for this thread.

The remark was from several years ago when he wasn't running for anything.  Maybe it does matter to how people perceive him, but it's hard for me to see good reason why it should.

[wbrocks67]

and the hits just keep coming

https://twitter.com/patriottakes/status/1567551530726719491

[wbrocks67]

"Oz said on Tuesday during his press conference that the first debate with Fetterman should be held within the next 10 days. Oz agreed to a debate this week with KDKA-TV, but according to the news station, the Fetterman campaign said that time was not doable, though it did not rule out a future event."

LMAO who the f**k is Oz to demand when to do a debate? You're lucky you're getting even one! Let's not forget that his request of *five* debates was absolutely asinine. You'll get one in October like a normal PA Senate campaign.

https://twitter.com/hollyotterbein/status/1567612613030297601

[ultraviolet]

Fetterman needs to debate, full stop. Same as Walker in GA. The stroke excuse is bs; if he can be out on the campaign trail doing speeches, he can debate. I really don't understand his aversion to debating.

His aversion to debating is because he is winning?

Well then that’s incredibly lame of him

[Progressive Pessimist]

I'll still need to see something substantive to suggest that Oz has suddenly flipped this race on its head. That clip from the last page of Fetterman, and the admittedly very awkward "New Jersey" gaffe/Freudian slip, is not enough to convince me. Oz still has a perception problem and is doing little to affirmatively make the case as to why Pennsylvanians should vote for him.

Though I will concede that Fetterman in that video wasn't all that charismatic. Oz isn't really either, so it might not even matter. In fact, given how the concept of "authenticity" appeals so much to Americans, Fetterman's lack of polish might even be an attribute, especially when contrasted with Oz.

[wbrocks67]

I'll still need to see something substantive to suggest that Oz has suddenly flipped this race on its head. That clip from the last page of Fetterman, and the admittedly very awkward "New Jersey" gaffe/Freudian slip, is not enough to convince me. Oz still has a perception problem and is doing little to affirmatively make the case as to why Pennsylvanians should vote for him.

Though I will concede that Fetterman in that video wasn't all that charismatic. Oz isn't really either, so it might not even matter. In fact, given how the concept of "authenticity" appeals so much to Americans, Fetterman's lack of polish might even be an attribute, especially when contrasted with Oz.

The problem for Oz is that having a health incident or knowing someone with one is completely relatable to almost everyone. Everyone knows someone who has got dealt with something and then tried to bounce back as much as they could. Oz being so gross as to sh*t on all of that and mock it just makes him look even more out of touch and gross than he did before.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

I'll still need to see something substantive to suggest that Oz has suddenly flipped this race on its head. That clip from the last page of Fetterman, and the admittedly very awkward "New Jersey" gaffe/Freudian slip, is not enough to convince me. Oz still has a perception problem and is doing little to affirmatively make the case as to why Pennsylvanians should vote for him.

Though I will concede that Fetterman in that video wasn't all that charismatic. Oz isn't really either, so it might not even matter. In fact, given how the concept of "authenticity" appeals so much to Americans, Fetterman's lack of polish might even be an attribute, especially when contrasted with Oz.

The problem for Oz is that having a health incident or knowing someone with one is completely relatable to almost everyone. Everyone knows someone who has got dealt with something and then tried to bounce back as much as they could. Oz being so gross as to sh*t on all of that and mock it just makes him look even more out of touch and gross than he did before.

It looks crass. That's a big issue for him. Crassness can work for you if you are Trump, but Oz is not Trump.

[Progressive Pessimist]

I'll still need to see something substantive to suggest that Oz has suddenly flipped this race on its head. That clip from the last page of Fetterman, and the admittedly very awkward "New Jersey" gaffe/Freudian slip, is not enough to convince me. Oz still has a perception problem and is doing little to affirmatively make the case as to why Pennsylvanians should vote for him.

Though I will concede that Fetterman in that video wasn't all that charismatic. Oz isn't really either, so it might not even matter. In fact, given how the concept of "authenticity" appeals so much to Americans, Fetterman's lack of polish might even be an attribute, especially when contrasted with Oz.

The problem for Oz is that having a health incident or knowing someone with one is completely relatable to almost everyone. Everyone knows someone who has got dealt with something and then tried to bounce back as much as they could. Oz being so gross as to sh*t on all of that and mock it just makes him look even more out of touch and gross than he did before.

It looks crass. That's a big issue for him. Crassness can work for you if you are Trump, but Oz is not Trump.

Agreed. He is coming off as very mean-spirited, which is common for the GOP currently, but it looks bad when you're a frigging doctor and condescending to someone with a serious health issue they're recovering from. He's making Fetterman look more sympathetic.

If he were running a better campaign, perhaps he could have utilized Fetterman's stroke to his advantage if he were to come at it from a perspective of being concerned about Fetterman's health. But it's too late to even try that because everything out of him has been: look at this unhealthy fatty! You wouldn't have had a stroke if you stopped eating and ate more crudite! We'll have the defibs ready for the debate!" It's pathetic.