COVID-19 Megathread 6: Return of the Omicron

[emailking]

If you don't want a booster (3rd, 4th, 10th, whatever) then don't take it.

A lot of people keep saying they're going to be required, but that hasn't happened. They're good for people who want them.

Some colleges require them now.

Oops. I wasn't aware of that. Hopefully not many.

[Roll Roons]

There are many aspects of COVID that are not well known:

1. That "mild" symptoms are anything short of SpO2 < 94%/hospitalization and are not what would be considered mild by the general population
2. That many people suffer long term effects from COVID even if they weren't hospitalized, and that the vaccine does not prevent this fully
3. That if you're hospitalized, even if you survive, there's a good chance you'll suffer long term effects
4. That there is no safe way to dine indoors
5. That there is no safe way to gather in large unmasked groups
6. That 6 feet was just a guideline and airborne transmission is actually more like how cigarette smoke would propagate

This was off the top of my head. Give the CDC/NIH a day and I'm sure they will come up with more. Give them what are effectively unlimited funds (for comparison, total spending on the 2020 campaign was $14.4 billion) to make every ad on every TV and radio station a PSA about COVID, maybe even buy out entire programs and turn them into long COVID documentaries, and I believe they can sway 20-30% of the population to take COVID seriously, on top of the say 30% that are already taking it seriously. There will be something like 40% that will not be swayed, like this forum, but at that point the market forces will have to favor the 60%.

This is nonsense.  It's been two years, the risks of COVID are well known by this point.  I am "fully vaccinated" for now, two jabs, and I tested positive this week.  The risks of hospitalization and death are very low if you are younger than 65, vaccinated, and not immunocompromised.  It is literally just a flu like illness.  If you are scared of getting sick, stay home, but you folks really need to stop trying to dictate how other people should live their lives.  It's getting tiresome.

These are all facts. You might not care about them, but if you weren't afraid of the truth, why are you so intent on suppressing knowledge of it? I'm not proposing to force anyone to do anything here, I'm proposing to let the full truth be known to everyone and then let market forces take care of it. You're just afraid that a solid majority will agree with me, alter their behavior to protect themselves, and then the free market will react and we'll resemble something like March 2020, without any government mandate or restriction.

Fine. Let's have it your way. Let's have a generation of socially and academically stunted kids with high rates of depression, drug abuse and suicide. Let's have millions of people sitting idle because they were laid off from their service or leisure sector jobs. Let's have anarchy in the streets because people aren't working or going to school and therefore have nothing better to do.

Do you listen to yourself?

[DINGO Joe]

There are many aspects of COVID that are not well known:

1. That "mild" symptoms are anything short of SpO2 < 94%/hospitalization and are not what would be considered mild by the general population
2. That many people suffer long term effects from COVID even if they weren't hospitalized, and that the vaccine does not prevent this fully
3. That if you're hospitalized, even if you survive, there's a good chance you'll suffer long term effects
4. That there is no safe way to dine indoors
5. That there is no safe way to gather in large unmasked groups
6. That 6 feet was just a guideline and airborne transmission is actually more like how cigarette smoke would propagate

This was off the top of my head. Give the CDC/NIH a day and I'm sure they will come up with more. Give them what are effectively unlimited funds (for comparison, total spending on the 2020 campaign was $14.4 billion) to make every ad on every TV and radio station a PSA about COVID, maybe even buy out entire programs and turn them into long COVID documentaries, and I believe they can sway 20-30% of the population to take COVID seriously, on top of the say 30% that are already taking it seriously. There will be something like 40% that will not be swayed, like this forum, but at that point the market forces will have to favor the 60%.

This is nonsense.  It's been two years, the risks of COVID are well known by this point.  I am "fully vaccinated" for now, two jabs, and I tested positive this week.  The risks of hospitalization and death are very low if you are younger than 65, vaccinated, and not immunocompromised.  It is literally just a flu like illness.  If you are scared of getting sick, stay home, but you folks really need to stop trying to dictate how other people should live their lives.  It's getting tiresome.

These are all facts. You might not care about them, but if you weren't afraid of the truth, why are you so intent on suppressing knowledge of it? I'm not proposing to force anyone to do anything here, I'm proposing to let the full truth be known to everyone and then let market forces take care of it. You're just afraid that a solid majority will agree with me, alter their behavior to protect themselves, and then the free market will react and we'll resemble something like March 2020, without any government mandate or restriction.

Fine. Let's have it your way. Let's have a generation of socially and academically stunted kids with high rates of depression, drug abuse and suicide. Let's have millions of people sitting idle because they were laid off from their service or leisure sector jobs. Let's have anarchy in the streets because people aren't working or going to school and therefore have nothing better to do.

Do you listen to yourself?

I'd rather they'd learn how to drive a truck, but that's selfish of me.  Also, oddly enough the suicide rate did drop in 2020 for whatever reason.

[jamestroll]

There are many aspects of COVID that are not well known:

1. That "mild" symptoms are anything short of SpO2 < 94%/hospitalization and are not what would be considered mild by the general population
2. That many people suffer long term effects from COVID even if they weren't hospitalized, and that the vaccine does not prevent this fully
3. That if you're hospitalized, even if you survive, there's a good chance you'll suffer long term effects
4. That there is no safe way to dine indoors
5. That there is no safe way to gather in large unmasked groups
6. That 6 feet was just a guideline and airborne transmission is actually more like how cigarette smoke would propagate

This was off the top of my head. Give the CDC/NIH a day and I'm sure they will come up with more. Give them what are effectively unlimited funds (for comparison, total spending on the 2020 campaign was $14.4 billion) to make every ad on every TV and radio station a PSA about COVID, maybe even buy out entire programs and turn them into long COVID documentaries, and I believe they can sway 20-30% of the population to take COVID seriously, on top of the say 30% that are already taking it seriously. There will be something like 40% that will not be swayed, like this forum, but at that point the market forces will have to favor the 60%.

This is nonsense.  It's been two years, the risks of COVID are well known by this point.  I am "fully vaccinated" for now, two jabs, and I tested positive this week.  The risks of hospitalization and death are very low if you are younger than 65, vaccinated, and not immunocompromised.  It is literally just a flu like illness.  If you are scared of getting sick, stay home, but you folks really need to stop trying to dictate how other people should live their lives.  It's getting tiresome.

These are all facts. You might not care about them, but if you weren't afraid of the truth, why are you so intent on suppressing knowledge of it? I'm not proposing to force anyone to do anything here, I'm proposing to let the full truth be known to everyone and then let market forces take care of it. You're just afraid that a solid majority will agree with me, alter their behavior to protect themselves, and then the free market will react and we'll resemble something like March 2020, without any government mandate or restriction.

Fine. Let's have it your way. Let's have a generation of socially and academically stunted kids with high rates of depression, drug abuse and suicide. Let's have millions of people sitting idle because they were laid off from their service or leisure sector jobs. Let's have anarchy in the streets because people aren't working or going to school and therefore have nothing better to do.

Do you listen to yourself?

I'd rather they'd learn how to drive a truck, but that's selfish of me.  Also, oddly enough the suicide rate did drop in 2020 for whatever reason.

Many are learning how to drive a truck...

[DINGO Joe]

Not fast enough.

[jamestroll]

Not fast enough.

The leisure and hospitality sector isn't going away. While I'm in the management part of it, which isn't that bad, I have had thoughts of leaving it myself.

But that part of the economy isn't going to go away.

[soundchaser]

There are many aspects of COVID that are not well known:

1. That "mild" symptoms are anything short of SpO2 < 94%/hospitalization and are not what would be considered mild by the general population
2. That many people suffer long term effects from COVID even if they weren't hospitalized, and that the vaccine does not prevent this fully
3. That if you're hospitalized, even if you survive, there's a good chance you'll suffer long term effects
4. That there is no safe way to dine indoors
5. That there is no safe way to gather in large unmasked groups
6. That 6 feet was just a guideline and airborne transmission is actually more like how cigarette smoke would propagate

This was off the top of my head. Give the CDC/NIH a day and I'm sure they will come up with more. Give them what are effectively unlimited funds (for comparison, total spending on the 2020 campaign was $14.4 billion) to make every ad on every TV and radio station a PSA about COVID, maybe even buy out entire programs and turn them into long COVID documentaries, and I believe they can sway 20-30% of the population to take COVID seriously, on top of the say 30% that are already taking it seriously. There will be something like 40% that will not be swayed, like this forum, but at that point the market forces will have to favor the 60%.

This is nonsense.  It's been two years, the risks of COVID are well known by this point.  I am "fully vaccinated" for now, two jabs, and I tested positive this week.  The risks of hospitalization and death are very low if you are younger than 65, vaccinated, and not immunocompromised.  It is literally just a flu like illness.  If you are scared of getting sick, stay home, but you folks really need to stop trying to dictate how other people should live their lives.  It's getting tiresome.

These are all facts. You might not care about them, but if you weren't afraid of the truth, why are you so intent on suppressing knowledge of it? I'm not proposing to force anyone to do anything here, I'm proposing to let the full truth be known to everyone and then let market forces take care of it. You're just afraid that a solid majority will agree with me, alter their behavior to protect themselves, and then the free market will react and we'll resemble something like March 2020, without any government mandate or restriction.

You have a very loose definition of the word “facts.”

[DINGO Joe]

Not fast enough.

The leisure and hospitality sector isn't going away. While I'm in the management part of it, which isn't that bad, I have had thoughts of leaving it myself.

But that part of the economy isn't going to go away.

Oh for God's sakes Jimmy, I live in New Orleans, why would I expect/want that to go away?  But right now, I need some damn truck drivers.

[jamestroll]

Not fast enough.

The leisure and hospitality sector isn't going away. While I'm in the management part of it, which isn't that bad, I have had thoughts of leaving it myself.

But that part of the economy isn't going to go away.

Oh for God's sakes Jimmy, I live in New Orleans, why would I expect/want that to go away?  Bit right now, I need some damn truck drivers.

Yea.. a lot of them are getting lazy. They should drive the trucks

[Donerail]

If you don't want a booster (3rd, 4th, 10th, whatever) then don't take it.

A lot of people keep saying they're going to be required, but that hasn't happened. They're good for people who want them.

What? Many universities (including the Cal State & UC systems, the Colorado State system, basically every university in Oregon, etc.) and employers (including all healthcare workers in California, as well as Meta) require boosters.

[ilikeverin]

If you don't want a booster (3rd, 4th, 10th, whatever) then don't take it.

A lot of people keep saying they're going to be required, but that hasn't happened. They're good for people who want them.

What? Many universities (including the Cal State & UC systems, the Colorado State system, basically every university in Oregon, etc.) and employers (including all healthcare workers in California, as well as Meta) require boosters.

SUNY requires boosters, too, thank God.

[Green Line]

If you don't want a booster (3rd, 4th, 10th, whatever) then don't take it.

A lot of people keep saying they're going to be required, but that hasn't happened. They're good for people who want them.

If the vaccine mandate is upheld by the supreme court, there is going to be a flood of booster mandates immediately afterwards.  Everyone is just waiting to see what happens now.  OHSA, obviously, will require boosters.  Their whole logic for the mandate make boosters necessary indefinitely.

[emailking]

If the vaccine mandate is upheld by the supreme court, there is going to be a flood of booster mandates immediately afterwards.  Everyone is just waiting to see what happens now.  OHSA, obviously, will require boosters.  Their whole logic for the mandate make boosters necessary indefinitely.

You might be right, but that's not obvious to me. I don't think OSHA would try to require them if Biden doesn't want it.

[Aurelius]

Sonoma County has banned "large gatherings" (defined as anything >50 people) and has issued what they call a "voluntary stay at home order," recommending residents to shelter in place and avoid contact with others for at least the next 30 days. But "there are no government policies restricting any behavior."

I didn't exactly say that the lack of government action was a positive thing, and I said what I said out of cynicism towards the moral bankruptcy of this country on COVID. I suppose I spend too much time on this forum, and thus it's easy to come to the conclusion that everyone thinks like the anti-restriction mob here. I'm very glad to see there are at least some virtuous people in this country, enough to pressure a local government to institute a common-sense low effort NPI to try to slow down the spread, when Omicron has clearly proven to be much more severe than the common cold and hospitalizations in the US are now at a record high.

Are you saying that we should return to the lockdowns of March 2020?

If money grew on trees, absolutely. In the real world, we can't afford to subsidize all the businesses that would be shut down and support the unemployment caused so something like the Sonoma county policy is probably the most that can be done, and even that may be too much and result in the county (and thus the taxpayers of the county) paying to support businesses.

Honestly maybe the most practical NPI is to give $50-100 billion to the CDC and NIH, have them blanket the airwaves nationwide with a PSA campaign informing people of the dangers of COVID and discouraging gathering in large groups etc, and let market forces take care of the rest.

What member of the public do you think

a) is not aware of COVID’s existence
b) would be swayed by a radio ad fearmongering about probably the most known disease on the planet?

There are many aspects of COVID that are not well known:

1. That "mild" symptoms are anything short of SpO2 < 94%/hospitalization and are not what would be considered mild by the general population
2. That many people suffer long term effects from COVID even if they weren't hospitalized, and that the vaccine does not prevent this fully
3. That if you're hospitalized, even if you survive, there's a good chance you'll suffer long term effects
4. That there is no safe way to dine indoors
5. That there is no safe way to gather in large unmasked groups
6. That 6 feet was just a guideline and airborne transmission is actually more like how cigarette smoke would propagate

This was off the top of my head. Give the CDC/NIH a day and I'm sure they will come up with more. Give them what are effectively unlimited funds (for comparison, total spending on the 2020 campaign was $14.4 billion) to make every ad on every TV and radio station a PSA about COVID, maybe even buy out entire programs and turn them into long COVID documentaries, and I believe they can sway 20-30% of the population to take COVID seriously, on top of the say 30% that are already taking it seriously. There will be something like 40% that will not be swayed, like this forum, but at that point the market forces will have to favor the 60%.

I am trying very, very hard to put this as diplomatically as possible. A very close friend of mine is dead, by suicide, as a direct result of the exact kind of unending covid theater you so tirelessly push for. I will not elaborate further out of respect for him, his memory, and his family.

I have zero respect, or tolerance, for those who continue to advocate it. After two years of this I am now actively hostile to you and those like you, not out of "selfishness", but out of simple respect for the well being of my community and those I care about. Look yourself in the mirror and think long and hard about what you are saying.

[compucomp]

Sonoma County has banned "large gatherings" (defined as anything >50 people) and has issued what they call a "voluntary stay at home order," recommending residents to shelter in place and avoid contact with others for at least the next 30 days. But "there are no government policies restricting any behavior."

I didn't exactly say that the lack of government action was a positive thing, and I said what I said out of cynicism towards the moral bankruptcy of this country on COVID. I suppose I spend too much time on this forum, and thus it's easy to come to the conclusion that everyone thinks like the anti-restriction mob here. I'm very glad to see there are at least some virtuous people in this country, enough to pressure a local government to institute a common-sense low effort NPI to try to slow down the spread, when Omicron has clearly proven to be much more severe than the common cold and hospitalizations in the US are now at a record high.

Are you saying that we should return to the lockdowns of March 2020?

If money grew on trees, absolutely. In the real world, we can't afford to subsidize all the businesses that would be shut down and support the unemployment caused so something like the Sonoma county policy is probably the most that can be done, and even that may be too much and result in the county (and thus the taxpayers of the county) paying to support businesses.

Honestly maybe the most practical NPI is to give $50-100 billion to the CDC and NIH, have them blanket the airwaves nationwide with a PSA campaign informing people of the dangers of COVID and discouraging gathering in large groups etc, and let market forces take care of the rest.

What member of the public do you think

a) is not aware of COVID’s existence
b) would be swayed by a radio ad fearmongering about probably the most known disease on the planet?

There are many aspects of COVID that are not well known:

1. That "mild" symptoms are anything short of SpO2 < 94%/hospitalization and are not what would be considered mild by the general population
2. That many people suffer long term effects from COVID even if they weren't hospitalized, and that the vaccine does not prevent this fully
3. That if you're hospitalized, even if you survive, there's a good chance you'll suffer long term effects
4. That there is no safe way to dine indoors
5. That there is no safe way to gather in large unmasked groups
6. That 6 feet was just a guideline and airborne transmission is actually more like how cigarette smoke would propagate

This was off the top of my head. Give the CDC/NIH a day and I'm sure they will come up with more. Give them what are effectively unlimited funds (for comparison, total spending on the 2020 campaign was $14.4 billion) to make every ad on every TV and radio station a PSA about COVID, maybe even buy out entire programs and turn them into long COVID documentaries, and I believe they can sway 20-30% of the population to take COVID seriously, on top of the say 30% that are already taking it seriously. There will be something like 40% that will not be swayed, like this forum, but at that point the market forces will have to favor the 60%.

I am trying very, very hard to put this as diplomatically as possible. A very close friend of mine is dead, by suicide, as a direct result of the exact kind of unending covid theater you so tirelessly push for. I will not elaborate further out of respect for him, his memory, and his family.

I have zero respect, or tolerance, for those who continue to advocate it. After two years of this I am now actively hostile to you and those like you, not out of "selfishness", but out of simple respect for the well being of my community and those I care about. Look yourself in the mirror and think long and hard about what you are saying.

And I have zero respect for people like you who refuse to take a deadly and ultra-contagious pandemic seriously and would go to any length to push your views on the entire population, including demanding that people reject the evidence of their eyes and ears, as the Party commanded in 1984, and suppressing facts and knowledge unfavorable to your view. I have an entirely clear conscience as I am doing the right thing to push for public health and to save lives. If you want to have the blood of 800K+ dead Americans on your hands, including the last 200-300K which could be classified as avoidable deaths except for the actions of people like you, then please feel free to wipe your hands with it.

[GeneralMacArthur]

C) You should only do a PCR test if you have tested positive on the antigen test (they are super expensive anyways so why would you test?)

Because I have a life and want to spend the next two weeks living it instead of hiding inside waiting to find out whether or not I have COVID.  But I also don't want to spread COVID to dozens of other people, especially people I care about, if I do have it.

Dude that ain't cool.  There's literally people that need to get those tests to come back negative in order to get back to work.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here, are you implying I shouldn't get tested even after spending significant time with someone who was infected with COVID, because someone else might need the test more than me?

Correct. It's selfish to hog tests if you're low risk.

Tell that to my loved ones who don't want to get COVID from me.

Your loved ones are going to get omicron from someone no matter what.

You can't dodge it.

So the end result of this story is that I do, in fact, have COVID, and it sucks.  Wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy, and certainly not the people I love.

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

About the tests. Flashback from June 2020:

https://twitter.com/RonaldKlain/status/1276502449898041344

[President Johnson]

I'm just leaving this good news here as well: BioNtech, Pfitzer's German partner in vaccine development, begun producing an adjusted vaccine for Omicron. First deliveries expected for March.

BioNtech also developed a method for fast detection of new variants:

https://twitter.com/Reuters_Health/status/1480955224395239434

[GeneralMacArthur]

About the tests. Flashback from June 2020:

https://twitter.com/RonaldKlain/status/1276502449898041344

Is this supposed to be some kind of dunk?  The Biden administration fixed testing, and then Omicron hit and suddenly demand for tests was like 10x higher than previously.  Were they supposed to somehow anticipate Omicron?

[Horus]

C) You should only do a PCR test if you have tested positive on the antigen test (they are super expensive anyways so why would you test?)

Because I have a life and want to spend the next two weeks living it instead of hiding inside waiting to find out whether or not I have COVID.  But I also don't want to spread COVID to dozens of other people, especially people I care about, if I do have it.

Dude that ain't cool.  There's literally people that need to get those tests to come back negative in order to get back to work.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here, are you implying I shouldn't get tested even after spending significant time with someone who was infected with COVID, because someone else might need the test more than me?

Correct. It's selfish to hog tests if you're low risk.

Tell that to my loved ones who don't want to get COVID from me.

Your loved ones are going to get omicron from someone no matter what.

You can't dodge it.

So the end result of this story is that I do, in fact, have COVID, and it sucks.  Wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy, and certainly not the people I love.

So, do you feel like you failed morally? That's how many pro restriction/forever maskers feel when they catch this extremely transmissible, mild variant that is impossible to avoid.

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

About the tests. Flashback from June 2020:

https://twitter.com/RonaldKlain/status/1276502449898041344

Is this supposed to be some kind of dunk?  The Biden administration fixed testing, and then Omicron hit and suddenly demand for tests was like 10x higher than previously.  Were they supposed to somehow anticipate Omicron?

Not a dunk, just stating a fact about how incompetent this administration has been.

Excuses, excuses. Europe, and especially UK, has been hit earlier by Omicron and has less problem with testing (again, especially UK). They testing more, it's easier and cheaper (mostly free?).

[GeneralMacArthur]

About the tests. Flashback from June 2020:

https://twitter.com/RonaldKlain/status/1276502449898041344

Is this supposed to be some kind of dunk?  The Biden administration fixed testing, and then Omicron hit and suddenly demand for tests was like 10x higher than previously.  Were they supposed to somehow anticipate Omicron?

Not a dunk, just stating a fact about how incompetent this administration has been.

Excuses, excuses. Europe, and especially UK, has been hit earlier by Omicron and has less problem with testing (again, especially UK). They testing more, it's easier and cheaper (mostly free?).

It's a valid excuse.  European nations are much more compact and have much lower populations than the United States.

[GeneralMacArthur]

C) You should only do a PCR test if you have tested positive on the antigen test (they are super expensive anyways so why would you test?)

Because I have a life and want to spend the next two weeks living it instead of hiding inside waiting to find out whether or not I have COVID.  But I also don't want to spread COVID to dozens of other people, especially people I care about, if I do have it.

Dude that ain't cool.  There's literally people that need to get those tests to come back negative in order to get back to work.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here, are you implying I shouldn't get tested even after spending significant time with someone who was infected with COVID, because someone else might need the test more than me?

Correct. It's selfish to hog tests if you're low risk.

Tell that to my loved ones who don't want to get COVID from me.

Your loved ones are going to get omicron from someone no matter what.

You can't dodge it.

So the end result of this story is that I do, in fact, have COVID, and it sucks.  Wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy, and certainly not the people I love.

So, do you feel like you failed morally? That's how many pro restriction/forever maskers feel when they catch this extremely transmissible, mild variant that is impossible to avoid.

No, I don't feel like I failed morally at all.  But my friend getting tested despite being asymptomatic let him know early that he had it, which let me know early that I might get it, which led to me separating from my girlfriend, so now I have COVID and she doesn't.  Without testing, I would have just gone home to her none the wiser and now we would both have COVID.  Thus testing was able to help me avoid giving COVID to someone I love.

[compucomp]

It enrages me that Republicans can now win political points by criticizing Biden's pandemic response as not good enough. I might agree with them on their points but it is ludicrous and utterly hypocritical for Republicans to lodge this criticism when their standard bearer is Donald Trump whose pandemic policy was to have us inject bleach and shine UV light up our asses, and their party stands proudly and loudly against the vaccine and any containment whatsoever. I know Fauci and Walensky should stay away from partisan politics but they would have been within their rights to say that they could have done so much more if not for the obstruction and resistance from the Republicans.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/01/11/world/omicron-covid-testing-vaccines#us-health-officials-defend-the-administrations-response-to-the-omicron-variant

Senator Richard Burr, the top Republican on the panel, said the Biden administration had spent months issuing confusing, contradictory recommendations. He cited zigzagging guidance on booster shots, and noted that this month Dr. Fauci had publicly contradicted Dr. Rochelle P. Walensky, the C.D.C. director, in suggesting the agency’s guidance on isolation for those who had tested positive would be revised to include a testing recommendation.

“Most Americans can’t make heads or tails of anything coming out of this administration,” Senator Tommy Tuberville, an Alabama Republican, said. “At times it doesn’t seem like anyone’s in charge.”

Mr. Burr was also harshly critical of the administration’s promise to deliver 500 million rapid tests to the homes of Americans, saying that Mr. Biden had pledged to do so without having the tests in hand.

Senator Susan Collins, a Maine Republican, said the scarcity of tests “appears to have been entirely preventable,” and that the administration failed to anticipate the need even though Congress allocated billions of dollars for testing efforts.

[GregTheGreat657]

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/coronavirus/might-be-over-that-peak-ny-viral-spread-rates-ease-as-deaths-hospitalizations-rise/3489703/

LETS F***ING GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! *knocks on wood*