Israel General Discussion: The Return of the Rotation Government

[Silent Hunter]

Ultimately 70+ years of fighting against Israel has just made the Palestinian position worse.

[CumbrianLefty]

Perhaps an even more cogent argument is that it has made *Israel* worse.

[Saruku]

Something that Zionists don't seem to understand is that Palestinian leaders are no less limited by political considerations than Israeli leaders.

These agreements obviously aren't encouraging for Palestinians, but the big picture seems more or less unchanged: it's not politically possible for an agreement to be reached now and won't be for the foreseeable future. In the short-term, Palestinians are paying the price, but in the long-term, it's possible that it will become very ugly all-around.

[Hnv1]

Something that Zionists don't seem to understand is that Palestinian leaders are no less limited by political considerations than Israeli leaders.

These agreements obviously aren't encouraging for Palestinians, but the big picture seems more or less unchanged: it's not politically possible for an agreement to be reached now and won't be for the foreseeable future. In the short-term, Palestinians are paying the price, but in the long-term, it's possible that it will become very ugly all-around.

Yeah it’s known. Israel could bend on even Jerusalem, but there is no Palestinian leader who can bend on the refugees and the “refugees”. So we’re in a dead end. And no one is eager to go back to the table when both sides know they have no reason to flex even a bit for a futile discussion

[Saruku]

I just find it worth nothing that Israel's diplomatic gains don't seem to be accompanied by any difference in public opinion (and Israel's standing in much of the West, especially the left, has declined over the last decade). So it's far from guaranteed that the favorable environment for Israel will continue indefinitely. And if the world really is headed towards Cold War 2.0, realpolitik may dictate losses for Israel that would probably surpass the gains. So comparing the Palestinian cause to the Tibetan nonsense (which was never seriously taken up by any state) seems ridiculous - if only Israel itself were as complacent as the Zionist rank-and-file!

Also, it's true that there are segments within Israeli politics that are willing to compromise on Jerusalem (and are serious about the "two-state solution" in general). But said segments have been unable to win an election in over a decade, and now their successors are nearly indistinguishable from the government with regard to the peace process industry. So can it continue to be said that *Israel itself* can compromise on Jerusalem, and is committed to the "two-state solution"? I don't really think so myself.

[Hnv1]

I just find it worth nothing that Israel's diplomatic gains don't seem to be accompanied by any difference in public opinion (and Israel's standing in much of the West, especially the left, has declined over the last decade). So it's far from guaranteed that the favorable environment for Israel will continue indefinitely. And if the world really is headed towards Cold War 2.0, realpolitik may dictate losses for Israel that would probably surpass the gains. So comparing the Palestinian cause to the Tibetan nonsense (which was never seriously taken up by any state) seems ridiculous - if only Israel itself were as complacent as the Zionist rank-and-file!

Also, it's true that there are segments within Israeli politics that are willing to compromise on Jerusalem (and are serious about the "two-state solution" in general). But said segments have been unable to win an election in over a decade, and now their successors are nearly indistinguishable from the government with regard to the peace process industry. So can it continue to be said that *Israel itself* can compromise on Jerusalem, and is committed to the "two-state solution"? I don't really think so myself.

You're quite the sensationalist. Cold War 2 isn't around the corner, and Israel has great working relations with Russia, China, and India.
The left in the west is ultra pro Palestine. so? they are farther from political power than we on the Israeli left.

The left-right divide on the Palestinian issue is dead, the left lost all the elections the past decade (well...a win in 2019 and 2020 but failed to form a government, and well a win in 2009, and a tie in 2013), in reasons that are unrelated to that issue. Even big parts of the Right would be willing for some agreement in Jerusalem.

Hell, I've been active in peace organizations for three decades now and can't say I'm committed to the 2SS like a decade ago. It's called being rational, adapting to the changing circumstances. The Oslo framework is dead, no one on the Palestinian side will move an inch until Abbas is dead and the succession battle is decided, and the internal divide between Hamas and Fatah is deadlegging the negotiations from the start.

Israel is committed to the 2SS like I am to quit smoking. on paper, I say yes but as the situation never materialize it makes no difference

[EastAnglianLefty]

I think we can probably accept that pro-Palestinian, anti-Uighur takes don't actually deserve to be treated in good faith.

[Hnv1]

I think we can probably accept that pro-Palestinian, anti-Uighur takes don't actually deserve to be treated in good faith.

I don’t understand the context of that post

[Lord Halifax]

I think we can probably accept that pro-Palestinian, anti-Uighur takes don't actually deserve to be treated in good faith.

I don’t understand the context of that post

It refers to Saruku's posting history.

[Saruku]

I have not said anything "anti-Uyghur". I have expressed skepticism of the Western MSM narrative on Xinjiang (perfectly reasonable given its track record: Saddam Hussein's WMDs, Iraqi soldiers throwing Kuwaiti infants out of incubators, to name just a few examples), and I do believe, as the silent majority of Uyghurs believe, that it's better for Uyghurs to be part of an emerging superpower instead of another forgettable "Stan" country fought over by various powers for their natural resources and strategic position. That is perfectly logically consistent with my anti-Zionism. The Zionist entity is one of the most successful capitalist-imperialist projects. Now those same capitalist-imperialist interests seek to balkanize China to protect its hegemony, and keep filling the ruling class' pockets. You seem to be operating on the mistaken assumption that everyone has the same worldview that you do.

I just wanted to clear that up. It wasn't my intention to derail this thread, and I won't be posting in it again unless there's new news.

[parochial boy]

Eh, no, I've got to ask. If your entire posting history consists of fussing about western imperialism, but your attitude towards Chinese imperialism is some combination of hand-waving it away and actively cheerleading it; do you actually have any genuine values at all?

[Hnv1]

Maoism is still a thing. Good to know

[Ancestral Republican]

People who say "Zionist regime" in 2020...

Posting Pepe memes in 2020 is even more cringe.

[Oryxslayer]

https://twitter.com/yairlapid/status/1322787160408367104?s=20

Everyone in Israel looks to be making preparations for Democratic control of Washington, not just Bibi.

[jaymichaud]

https://twitter.com/mohamedhemish/status/1324744089145888769?s=21

Bu-bu-but Orly Levy is a racist for not wanting to sit in a government with the Joint List 😤😤😤

[Former President tack50]

https://twitter.com/yairlapid/status/1322787160408367104?s=20

Everyone in Israel looks to be making preparations for Democratic control of Washington, not just Bibi.

Unrelated and late, but is this really something antisemitic?

This just seems like the standard "Liberals from out of state trying to buy our good Christian conservatives!" ad that seems to be quite common? And Schumer is the Dem majority leader, it's not like he is a random backbencher.

Would it suddenly not be anti-semitic if this ad was done in another state with a non-Jewish Dem candidate? Or if the picture was that of Biden or Pelosi? Despite the argument being the same? (Liberals from out of state buying our elections)

[jaymichaud]

https://twitter.com/yairlapid/status/1322787160408367104?s=20

Everyone in Israel looks to be making preparations for Democratic control of Washington, not just Bibi.

Unrelated and late, but is this really something antisemitic?

This just seems like the standard "Liberals from out of state trying to buy our good Christian conservatives!" ad that seems to be quite common? And Schumer is the Dem majority leader, it's not like he is a random backbencher.

Would it suddenly not be anti-semitic if this ad was done in another state with a non-Jewish Dem candidate? Or if the picture was that of Biden or Pelosi? Despite the argument being the same? (Liberals from out of state buying our elections)

I agree. Not antisemitic in my eyes, it's not as if they used a Rothschild or something.

[warandwar]

https://twitter.com/mohamedhemish/status/1324744089145888769?s=21

Bu-bu-but Orly Levy is a racist for not wanting to sit in a government with the Joint List 😤😤😤

Yes.

[Angel of Death]

Saeb Erekat just died of COVID-19 in an Israeli hospital. It never was clear to me if it was a realistic possibility he might have been the one to succeed Abbas.

[CumbrianLefty]

Saeb Erekat just died of COVID-19 in an Israeli hospital. It never was clear to me if it was a realistic possibility he might have been the one to succeed Abbas.

Well, fair to say it isn't now.

[Ancestral Republican]

Greenwashing?

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/legalizing-marijuana-could-happen-within-9-months-nissenkorn-648901

[Hnv1]

Greenwashing?

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/legalizing-marijuana-could-happen-within-9-months-nissenkorn-648901

More like one of the highest percentage of cannabis users in the world and everyone not wanting Zehut/green leaf parties wasting votes.

It won’t happen anytime soon anyhow

[jaymichaud]

Greenwashing?

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/legalizing-marijuana-could-happen-within-9-months-nissenkorn-648901

More like one of the highest percentage of cannabis users in the world and everyone not wanting Zehut/green leaf parties wasting votes.

It won’t happen anytime soon anyhow

Ale Yarok haven’t been running, tho?

[Hnv1]

Greenwashing?

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/legalizing-marijuana-could-happen-within-9-months-nissenkorn-648901

More like one of the highest percentage of cannabis users in the world and everyone not wanting Zehut/green leaf parties wasting votes.

It won’t happen anytime soon anyhow

Ale Yarok haven’t been running, tho?

Not in 2019/20. Did run in 2015 and wasted votes, and Zehut screwed over Bibi’s right wing majority in 2019A.

Anyhow the bill won’t pass as it’s government legislation by B&W, so incentive for likud to play ball, and  the government stopped moving forward legislation months ago. Plus it requires a lot of planning by administrative authorities and legislation. Considering the Knesset will dissolve either in December or March. That just won’t happen.

Unless Bibi sees some internal polls saying he needs it.

Part for Yamina and JL, legalisation is almost a consensus*


* it’s worth noting that Edelson’s Hag-wife is really anti cannabis and that might deter him from pushing it forward

[(no subject)]

I don't think the Kushner plan is intended to be a meaningful plan to settle the Palestine Question. But, I do agree that the Palestinians blew their chances for a Palestinian state a long time ago. My belief is that the Palestinians will now dwindle into insignificance in the minds of the other Middle Eastern countries and leaders and Palestine as a concept will be extinguished in the next decade.