Israel General Discussion: The Return of the Rotation Government

[SInNYC]

Are the Haredi observing the lockdown? Last I heard, Bibi is trying to cut a deal so they dont have to, though its not clear they will even without such a deal.

[CumbrianLefty]

Good old Covid virus, obviously doesn't affect the Haredi like it does other people

[Hnv1]

Are the Haredi observing the lockdown? Last I heard, Bibi is trying to cut a deal so they dont have to, though its not clear they will even without such a deal.

From my observations, yes, and most adhered to mask-wearing and other measures from the start (don't forget they lost a lot of people in NY and knew what was coming). It's only a faction of Hassidic Jews and some strict lithuanians that caused problems.

[Never Made it to Graceland]

Are the Haredi observing the lockdown? Last I heard, Bibi is trying to cut a deal so they dont have to, though its not clear they will even without such a deal.

From my observations, yes, and most adhered to mask-wearing and other measures from the start (don't forget they lost a lot of people in NY and knew what was coming). It's only a faction of Hassidic Jews and some strict lithuanians that caused problems.

By and large the Hasidim in NY still are not adhering though. Almost no mask wearing and continuing to hold large gatherings like weddings and funerals.

[Mike88]

So... yeah... :

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1308997723941670912

[jaymichaud]

So... yeah... :

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1308997723941670912

It's probably more Sara than him. Everyone who works for them says that she's a piece of work.

[NewYorkExpress]

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/10/2/israeli-tourism-minister-resigns-to-protest-netanyahu

Israel’s tourism minister has resigned from the fractious government, saying he does not have an “ounce of trust” in Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, accusing him of putting his personal and legal issues ahead of the response to the COVID-19 crisis.

Asaf Zamir is a member of the centrist Blue and White party, which battled Netanyahu’s right-wing Likud in three stalemated elections in under a year before forming an emergency government with it in May to combat the pandemic.

Israel went into a second nationwide lockdown last month and is now grappling with one of the worst outbreaks in the world on a per capita basis. The emergency government has been roiled by infighting and has faced widespread criticism over its confusing and often contradictory response to the pandemic.

“I can no longer sit in a government in which I don’t have an ounce of trust in the person at its head,” Zamir tweeted.

“I have unfortunately determined that the coronavirus crisis and its terrible impact is at best in second place in the list of priorities of the prime minister. Personal and legal considerations are at the top of Netanyahu’s priorities.”

Is this the end of the road for the coalition government?

[Hnv1]

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/10/2/israeli-tourism-minister-resigns-to-protest-netanyahu

Israel’s tourism minister has resigned from the fractious government, saying he does not have an “ounce of trust” in Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, accusing him of putting his personal and legal issues ahead of the response to the COVID-19 crisis.

Asaf Zamir is a member of the centrist Blue and White party, which battled Netanyahu’s right-wing Likud in three stalemated elections in under a year before forming an emergency government with it in May to combat the pandemic.

Israel went into a second nationwide lockdown last month and is now grappling with one of the worst outbreaks in the world on a per capita basis. The emergency government has been roiled by infighting and has faced widespread criticism over its confusing and often contradictory response to the pandemic.

“I can no longer sit in a government in which I don’t have an ounce of trust in the person at its head,” Zamir tweeted.

“I have unfortunately determined that the coronavirus crisis and its terrible impact is at best in second place in the list of priorities of the prime minister. Personal and legal considerations are at the top of Netanyahu’s priorities.”

Is this the end of the road for the coalition government?

Not yet, but a budget needs to pass in December 24th. No one is working on it and it takes time. Gantz announced B&W will start with selecting a new AG. Can’t see it happening. I assume it will die soon

[Hnv1]

Went to a demonstration here yesterday. A leftist neighbourhood, and then I went to my sister’s area to the demonstration (radical left bastion of Haifa). Police were mainly overwhelmed with low numbers so stood by. The scenes from Tel Aviv are disturbing. The fabric of Israeli society is tearing, more than the 90’s or the point in the 80’s where civil war looked around the corner.

If this is the last hoorah than be it. I’ll join the youth at any violent protest if needed be. “It is our moral obligation to break unjust laws”.

[jaymichaud]

Went to a demonstration here yesterday. A leftist neighbourhood, and then I went to my sister’s area to the demonstration (radical left bastion of Haifa). Police were mainly overwhelmed with low numbers so stood by. The scenes from Tel Aviv are disturbing. The fabric of Israeli society is tearing, more than the 90’s or the point in the 80’s where civil war looked around the corner.

If this is the last hoorah than be it. I’ll join the youth at any violent protest if needed be. “It is our moral obligation to break unjust laws”.

Wait, when was this? 1982?

[Continential]

If there is a civil war, how will it go as Israel has nukes?

[Hnv1]

Went to a demonstration here yesterday. A leftist neighbourhood, and then I went to my sister’s area to the demonstration (radical left bastion of Haifa). Police were mainly overwhelmed with low numbers so stood by. The scenes from Tel Aviv are disturbing. The fabric of Israeli society is tearing, more than the 90’s or the point in the 80’s where civil war looked around the corner.

If this is the last hoorah than be it. I’ll join the youth at any violent protest if needed be. “It is our moral obligation to break unjust laws”.

Wait, when was this? 1982?

81 was a dirty campaign, the dirtiest until 2015. Until 1985 things were dodgy, Lebanon war and polarisation were massive. Both big parties had 75% of the house. After the rotation government settled in things cooled off for a bit.

[Hnv1]

If there is a civil war, how will it go as Israel has nukes?

The IDF will probably sit idle, a civil war will probably be mainly street clashes and clashes with the police. The age of tanks in the streets is over I think.

[CumbrianLefty]

Went to a demonstration here yesterday. A leftist neighbourhood, and then I went to my sister’s area to the demonstration (radical left bastion of Haifa). Police were mainly overwhelmed with low numbers so stood by. The scenes from Tel Aviv are disturbing. The fabric of Israeli society is tearing, more than the 90’s or the point in the 80’s where civil war looked around the corner.

If this is the last hoorah than be it. I’ll join the youth at any violent protest if needed be. “It is our moral obligation to break unjust laws”.

Wait, when was this? 1982?

81 was a dirty campaign, the dirtiest until 2015. Until 1985 things were dodgy, Lebanon war and polarisation were massive. Both big parties had 75% of the house. After the rotation government settled in things cooled off for a bit.

I don't suppose the rampant inflation around that time would have helped either.

[Hnv1]

Went to a demonstration here yesterday. A leftist neighbourhood, and then I went to my sister’s area to the demonstration (radical left bastion of Haifa). Police were mainly overwhelmed with low numbers so stood by. The scenes from Tel Aviv are disturbing. The fabric of Israeli society is tearing, more than the 90’s or the point in the 80’s where civil war looked around the corner.

If this is the last hoorah than be it. I’ll join the youth at any violent protest if needed be. “It is our moral obligation to break unjust laws”.

Wait, when was this? 1982?

81 was a dirty campaign, the dirtiest until 2015. Until 1985 things were dodgy, Lebanon war and polarisation were massive. Both big parties had 75% of the house. After the rotation government settled in things cooled off for a bit.

I don't suppose the rampant inflation around that time would have helped either.

No, neither did the banking stocks crisis that nearly bankrupted half the country. But the main issues were on foreign policy and demographic struggle between Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jews.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

One reason why international reporting of Israeli politics is so bad these days is the fact that most of the people filing the copy on it cut their teeth back when it was dominated by those two big hyper-ideological blocks*, and have failed to adjust to everything that has changed since the end of that period.

_{*Average age of international Middle East reporters and correspondents is now amongst the oldest in journalism.}

[jaymichaud]

One reason why international reporting of Israeli politics is so bad these days is the fact that most of the people filing the copy on it cut their teeth back when it was dominated by those two big hyper-ideological blocks*, and have failed to adjust to everything that has changed since the end of that period.

_{*Average age of international Middle East reporters and correspondents is now amongst the oldest in journalism.}

Labor Zionism vs Revisionist Zionism? Those are pretty much dead ideologies at this point.

[Zinneke]

One reason why international reporting of Israeli politics is so bad these days is the fact that most of the people filing the copy on it cut their teeth back when it was dominated by those two big hyper-ideological blocks*, and have failed to adjust to everything that has changed since the end of that period.

_{*Average age of international Middle East reporters and correspondents is now amongst the oldest in journalism.}

Labor Zionism vs Revisionist Zionism? Those are pretty much dead ideologies at this point.

Yet Likud still exists? How has it evolved since then?

[Hnv1]

One reason why international reporting of Israeli politics is so bad these days is the fact that most of the people filing the copy on it cut their teeth back when it was dominated by those two big hyper-ideological blocks*, and have failed to adjust to everything that has changed since the end of that period.

_{*Average age of international Middle East reporters and correspondents is now amongst the oldest in journalism.}

Labor Zionism vs Revisionist Zionism? Those are pretty much dead ideologies at this point.

Yet Likud still exists? How has it evolved since then?

Is this question genuine or a joke? Because I’m not sure if I should answer it.

Labour v Revisionist is dead yes, but the new divides build on the old ones so it’s in the background, same as the 80’s-90’s are in the background of the new divide emerging now between conservative and liberal camps.

[kaoras]

One reason why international reporting of Israeli politics is so bad these days is the fact that most of the people filing the copy on it cut their teeth back when it was dominated by those two big hyper-ideological blocks*, and have failed to adjust to everything that has changed since the end of that period.

_{*Average age of international Middle East reporters and correspondents is now amongst the oldest in journalism.}

Labor Zionism vs Revisionist Zionism? Those are pretty much dead ideologies at this point.

Yet Likud still exists? How has it evolved since then?

Is this question genuine or a joke? Because I’m not sure if I should answer it.

He is asking how Likud has survived till the present day despite revisionist Zionism "being a dead ideology". That's not an obvious question, though I think you interpreted it as if Likud still exists today.

[Zinneke]

One reason why international reporting of Israeli politics is so bad these days is the fact that most of the people filing the copy on it cut their teeth back when it was dominated by those two big hyper-ideological blocks*, and have failed to adjust to everything that has changed since the end of that period.

_{*Average age of international Middle East reporters and correspondents is now amongst the oldest in journalism.}

Labor Zionism vs Revisionist Zionism? Those are pretty much dead ideologies at this point.

Yet Likud still exists? How has it evolved since then?

Is this question genuine or a joke? Because I’m not sure if I should answer it.

Labour v Revisionist is dead yes, but the new divides build on the old ones so it’s in the background, same as the 80’s-90’s are in the background of the new divide emerging now between conservative and liberal camps.

Yeah what kaoras said : how come Likud survived but Labour didn't.

[Hnv1]

One reason why international reporting of Israeli politics is so bad these days is the fact that most of the people filing the copy on it cut their teeth back when it was dominated by those two big hyper-ideological blocks*, and have failed to adjust to everything that has changed since the end of that period.

_{*Average age of international Middle East reporters and correspondents is now amongst the oldest in journalism.}

Labor Zionism vs Revisionist Zionism? Those are pretty much dead ideologies at this point.

Yet Likud still exists? How has it evolved since then?

Is this question genuine or a joke? Because I’m not sure if I should answer it.

Labour v Revisionist is dead yes, but the new divides build on the old ones so it’s in the background, same as the 80’s-90’s are in the background of the new divide emerging now between conservative and liberal camps.

Yeah what kaoras said : how come Likud survived but Labour didn't.

Mmm. Likud morphed into a big party that still gave identity to large segments in society. Labour׳s socialist tradition had very little pull on its now upper middle class voters. Plus Likud is a party of governance a lot of people depend on them staying in power. Lastly, Labour had really bad leaders for most of the time and the damage done by the Second Intifada was heavy, there’s too big a segment of potential supporters who just don’t like the leftist tag.

[CumbrianLefty]

One reason why international reporting of Israeli politics is so bad these days is the fact that most of the people filing the copy on it cut their teeth back when it was dominated by those two big hyper-ideological blocks*, and have failed to adjust to everything that has changed since the end of that period.

_{*Average age of international Middle East reporters and correspondents is now amongst the oldest in journalism.}

Labor Zionism vs Revisionist Zionism? Those are pretty much dead ideologies at this point.

Yet Likud still exists? How has it evolved since then?

For the worse?

[Never Made it to Graceland]

I have a question about this fur trade ban.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-54418334

What exactly is the point, if the Ultra-Orthodox are granted an exemption? Aren't they the number one consumers of fur by far? I doubt there was a massive trade in, like, mink coats before. Considering it's, you know, Israel, where heavy winter attire isn't exactly in demand.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Yeah what kaoras said : how come Likud survived but Labour didn't.

Up to a point these things come down to chance and personalities more than maybe we like to admit, but one issue is probably just that Likud has always been shaped to a great extent by its leader of the moment, while Labour was a cadre party in an unusually literal sense. So when Israeli politics was upended by the formation of Kadima it was possible for the rump Likud to remain broadly speaking itself, while the shattering of the old Labour Party was permanent: Humpty Dumpty could not be put back together again. In that respect it has something in common with the DC in Italy.