Israel General Discussion: The Return of the Rotation Government

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'member the 80's with the rotation government? I 'member!

Finally we can have a non election thread.

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I just took a peep on the coalition agreement. I don't think parts of it will stand judicial review.

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Is KL still going to be overrepresented in the major ministries?

Yes

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I just took a peep on the coalition agreement. I don't think parts of it will stand judicial review.

Indeed the "extended leap frog Norwegian law" which would have allowed B&W to resign but to be placed only by Hosen members further down the list is currently off the table (retroactive).

I expect the mechanism designed to override the regular apparatus of constructive motion of no confidence set in the Section 28 of the basic-law: government to be nullified by the SC as it constrains the power of the majority of the Knesset to elect a government. Also, the automatic substitution of PMs at a single date could raise some issues. What if B&W dissolves by then and Gantz is left with only 4 MKs supporting him, should he really be allowed to automatically become PM with no confidence?

Some of the rotational mechanisms regarding sacking and appointing ministers could go either way. The high road would have been a gentlemen's agreement like between 84-88, but as I wouldn't believe Bibi telling me it's raining during a monsoon I can understand the need for assurances.

As to the difficulties with some many sycophants on one side and too little on the other to man all posts. Likud will probably send some members to be ambassadors. Haskel is rumored to be heading to Australia. Ardan to the UN. Akonis might go to London. Meanwhile, Gantz who has too few MKs to fill all posts in the house and in government will probably appoint exterior ministers to some posts as professional ministers.

[Hnv1]

In other news, Yair Netanyahu is still a white supremacist:
https://twitter.com/YairNetanyahu/status/1255056296384040960?s=20

Really odd, especially considering his grandfather despised Christian values, Joffrey here is essentially a far-right catholic

[Hnv1]

In other news, Yair Netanyahu is still a white supremacist:
https://twitter.com/YairNetanyahu/status/1255056296384040960?s=20

Really odd, especially considering his grandfather despised Christian values, Joffrey here is essentially a far-right catholic

It's classic neo nazi rhetoric. He's no different than these people at this point, his grandfather would probably be ashamed (the probably is "if he wasn't as morally bankrupt as his son")

To a degree Yair is the fault of the American Right. The last 15 years so massive numbers of the Jewish far right in America immigrate to Israel and especially Jerusalem. Yair interacted with them at the university while participating in all the programmes financed by the "hope foundation" a right wing paleo-conservative Jewish NGO.

Like his father in the 80's importing the foolish antics of the shallow American republican politics, his son is importing the new bad trends of the alt-right.

Our relationship with America is toxic politically, and adverse strategically.

I have similar objections to the trends in the left importing the safe space identity politics shenanigans. 

[Hnv1]

In other news, Yair Netanyahu is still a white supremacist:
https://twitter.com/YairNetanyahu/status/1255056296384040960?s=20

Why in the world would any self-respecting Jew want Europe of all continents to "return to being Christian"?!

It's ironic given history. But in a modern context a Christian Europe would be more pro-Israeli and anti-Arabic/anti-Islamic, secularism makes Europeans (and Americans) less likely to support Israel. So it makes sense.

I'm sure his Polish and Hungarians best buds would be thrilled to have junior the notorious closet gay (the worst kept secret in Israeli politics) preaching them on Christian values.

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So after day 1 of the SC hearings on the new government it seems quite clear the majority of justices will allow Bibi to be PM. tomorrow will be more interesting and we'll see whether the coalition agreement of parts of will be struck down

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SC rejected all appeals against the formation of the government by Bibi and the coalition agreements by a unanimous verdict of 11 justices (unheard of). I could have made nice chunks of money if I placed bets on it...

They did warn though they would probably not accept pushing the opposition representative from the judicial appointment committee. But this actually is quite on shaky ground in law compared to other items. Strange.

Bibi now has 14 days to present the government for a confidence vote

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Just out of curiosity, on a scale of 1 to 10, how close is Avigdor Lieberman to the old Russian organised crime networks? Is there any political backlash/ethnic stereotyping the other way from religious types who view him and his community as ''not real Jews''?

1/ who knows? there were some suspicious evidence in his court case (like his driver who took the money vanished in Russia and some burned body in the Ukraine was found with his passport on him with the passport in good shape). or links to dodgy figures in Russia and the Serbian Republic in Bosnia. but who really knows? I wouldn't rule it out but I wouldn't put him down as a soldier as well.
2/ of course there is. that's what enabled him to break the chains that locked him in the right bloc since 2009.

[Hnv1]

Just out of curiosity, on a scale of 1 to 10, how close is Avigdor Lieberman to the old Russian organised crime networks? Is there any political backlash/ethnic stereotyping the other way from religious types who view him and his community as ''not real Jews''?

1/ who knows? there were some suspicious evidence in his court case (like his driver who took the money vanished in Russia and some burned body in the Ukraine was found with his passport on him with the passport in good shape). or links to dodgy figures in Russia and the Serbian Republic in Bosnia. but who really knows? I wouldn't rule it out but I wouldn't put him down as a soldier as well.

Wow. Also wasn´t there a party in the 90s also with the initials YB but the B stood for something else, and it was basically a front for the Russian Mafia in Israel?

Edit : found it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yisrael_BaAliyah

2/ of course there is. that's what enabled him to break the chains that locked him in the right bloc since 2009.

Do they specifically single out Russian Jews though (as opposed to Secular Jews in general)?

Yisrael Baliah wasn’t a mafia cover, they were a pure sectarian party for Russians led by Sheranski who was many things but not a wise guy. Eventually assimilated into Likud (Edelstein came from there).

Shas singles out Russians on several occasions. UTJ care less as their constituents don’t marry every busty willing blonde Russian girl.

[Hnv1]

Just out of curiosity, on a scale of 1 to 10, how close is Avigdor Lieberman to the old Russian organised crime networks? Is there any political backlash/ethnic stereotyping the other way from religious types who view him and his community as ''not real Jews''?

1/ who knows? there were some suspicious evidence in his court case (like his driver who took the money vanished in Russia and some burned body in the Ukraine was found with his passport on him with the passport in good shape). or links to dodgy figures in Russia and the Serbian Republic in Bosnia. but who really knows? I wouldn't rule it out but I wouldn't put him down as a soldier as well.

Wow. Also wasn´t there a party in the 90s also with the initials YB but the B stood for something else, and it was basically a front for the Russian Mafia in Israel?

Edit : found it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yisrael_BaAliyah

2/ of course there is. that's what enabled him to break the chains that locked him in the right bloc since 2009.

Do they specifically single out Russian Jews though (as opposed to Secular Jews in general)?

Yisrael Baliah wasn’t a mafia cover, they were a pure sectarian party for Russians led by Sheranski who was many things but not a wise guy. Eventually assimilated into Likud (Edelstein came from there).

Shas singles out Russians on several occasions. UTJ care less as their constituents don’t marry every busty willing blonde Russian girl.

Shas constituents marry blonde Russian girls?! Surely not the Haredi?

Of course not, but the the traditionalists do (“half Moroccan half Russian”). The Russian are no pushover themselves and their local media is full of racist writing against the natives especially the Sephardi. Though Russian women are more likely to marry Sephardi then Ashkenazi men.

Israel is a great lab experiment in anthropology really

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Yamina going to the opposition claiming they want to create a right wing opposition to this left government. It might have been perceived as sincere had we not known that Yamina would have happily got in with 1-2 more ministerial positions.

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Why does Bibi care about Communications so much?

The media market in Israel is very small since the collapse of partisan newspapers in the 80's and 90's, Bibi and the Right feels the media is controlled by the left or something like the "liberal media". Which, even if it was a correct statement 20 years ago (big if), is clearly false this days.

Bibi felt his fall in 99 had a lot to do with the entire media standing against him and since his rise to power in 2009 is trying to push a right wing populist (and dumbed down) outlets like Edelson's paper and channel 20.

honestly, his crusade went beyond rational and has probably a lot to do with his wife sensitivities with media criticism

[Hnv1]

Why does Bibi care about Communications so much?

The media market in Israel is very small since the collapse of partisan newspapers in the 80's and 90's, Bibi and the Right feels the media is controlled by the left or something like the "liberal media". Which, even if it was a correct statement 20 years ago (big if), is clearly false this days.

Bibi felt his fall in 99 had a lot to do with the entire media standing against him and since his rise to power in 2009 is trying to push a right wing populist (and dumbed down) outlets like Edelson's paper and channel 20.

honestly, his crusade went beyond rational and has probably a lot to do with his wife sensitivities with media criticism

How much of Bibi's worries here about losing the media are rooted in unjustified paranoia and how much is rooted in actual risk?
Does he fear that the possibility of the media going full-on nuking his image over indictment is a risk so grave he needs to do the most he can to avert it?

we are ex post here, the media already went nuclear and has been critical for years (though less then in the past), and behold his voters don't really care. hence there's nothing here over and above his personal desire to be framed as one of the greatest, some childish want of acknowledgement. I assume he never thought that perhaps is overt emphasis on media pictures and spins is the reason the media dislikes him.

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3, all this really gives me the vibe Shas are a nasty party, even by the standards of Isreali politics.

They're just basically a cult. I worked in a polling place in the April election, and one woman who came from another city came looking for a polling place where you could vote as an absentee. She was distressed because "it's a sacred obligation to vote Shas". They use their dead Rabbie, Ovadia Yossef, who was really popular, in all their ads, telling voters that he's "looking from above" and that they have to vote Shas for him. They also sold charms against covid-19 last time and other "blessings" every election. Not to mention the fact that their leader served a jail sentence for corruption and is now due to be indicted again.

I'm laughing at the the irony that they attack Russians for mafia stuff while they are basically THE mafia in Isreali politics, due to their exceptional corruption. Is that bad?

Well, they have no organzied or violent crime connections that I know of. Generally, mafia stuff isn't really an issue in Israeli politics (save pershaps for instances like the witnesses in Lieberman's trial, um, disappearing). But I think it's an accurate assessment that both Shas and YB represent the bad sides of their sects and not the good (sadly, I think this can be said for a lot of sectarial parties- the Haredim, the religious zionists, even the Arabs to an extent).

There's some pretty serious allegations in Misha Glenny's book McMafia (which led to be interested in how Russian Jews are perceived) that Likud was infiltrated by organised crime.

After Dubai, Israel is the next money laundering capital of the Middle East...

Seems like a sensationalist claim to me (as well every organized crime allegation ever). Considering Income Tax Authority in Israel is pretty tough and strong.

Organized crime in Israel is very low scale and very low-fi. Likudniks definitely have some ties to criminals, but they're petty criminals.

Part for holding houses in Israel, Russian mobsters don't seem to be money laundering here in a large scale

[Hnv1]

3, all this really gives me the vibe Shas are a nasty party, even by the standards of Isreali politics.

They're just basically a cult. I worked in a polling place in the April election, and one woman who came from another city came looking for a polling place where you could vote as an absentee. She was distressed because "it's a sacred obligation to vote Shas". They use their dead Rabbie, Ovadia Yossef, who was really popular, in all their ads, telling voters that he's "looking from above" and that they have to vote Shas for him. They also sold charms against covid-19 last time and other "blessings" every election. Not to mention the fact that their leader served a jail sentence for corruption and is now due to be indicted again.

I'm laughing at the the irony that they attack Russians for mafia stuff while they are basically THE mafia in Isreali politics, due to their exceptional corruption. Is that bad?

Well, they have no organzied or violent crime connections that I know of. Generally, mafia stuff isn't really an issue in Israeli politics (save pershaps for instances like the witnesses in Lieberman's trial, um, disappearing). But I think it's an accurate assessment that both Shas and YB represent the bad sides of their sects and not the good (sadly, I think this can be said for a lot of sectarial parties- the Haredim, the religious zionists, even the Arabs to an extent).

There's some pretty serious allegations in Misha Glenny's book McMafia (which led to be interested in how Russian Jews are perceived) that Likud was infiltrated by organised crime.

After Dubai, Israel is the next money laundering capital of the Middle East...

Seems like a sensationalist claim to me (as well every organized crime allegation ever). Considering Income Tax Authority in Israel is pretty tough and strong.

Organized crime in Israel is very low scale and very low-fi. Likudniks definitely have some ties to criminals, but they're petty criminals.

Part for holding houses in Israel, Russian mobsters don't seem to be money laundering here in a large scale

Don't Russians tend to prefer Cyprus as a money store, as opposed to Isreal?

I really don't know, it's possible. But claiming Israel is a secret hub for covert organized crime activity is quite fantastic

[Hnv1]

What would be needed to clean up Isreali politics?

Change the population. Israeli population is almost entirely originated from places where the standards for what is corrupt are much weaker than the west. And it's no coincidence our legal system shaped by German immigrants is at odds with the political system on corruption

[Hnv1]

Yamina going to the opposition claiming they want to create a right wing opposition to this left government. It might have been perceived as sincere had we not known that Yamina would have happily got in with 1-2 more ministerial positions.

Bennett and Shaked preparing to stick the knife in, maybe?

More like a 7 seat party has more ego than actual strength

[Hnv1]

Government to be sworn in this Thursday.

Bar for the allocation of the minor portfolios nothing interest left.

[Hnv1]

Government to be sworn in this Thursday.

Bar for the allocation of the minor portfolios nothing interest left.

"Whether Regev or Ohana will be police minister" is nothing of interest? Sad!
(/s)

Not really. It’s a ministerial position with almost zero power

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Gilad Arden accepted the dual position as ambassador both to Washington and the US (a post held by Abba Eban ages ago). Ardan would enter his new role on November. Which is interesting. Current ambassador Dremer is very close with the GOP, I think Bibi is keeping him there a bit longer for a strong push on the annexation. But it also seems Bibi does not think Trump is going to win.

[Hnv1]

Gilad Arden accepted the dual position as ambassador both to Washington and the US (a post held by Abba Eban ages ago). Ardan would enter his new role on November. Which is interesting. Current ambassador Dremer is very close with the GOP, I think Bibi is keeping him there a bit longer for a strong push on the annexation. But it also seems Bibi does not think Trump is going to win.

"Washington and the US"? Do you mean the US plus international organizations headquartered in Washington like the World Bank and the IMF?

Sorry miscliclked. The UN of course.

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Yamina spokesmen are going on a rant about how they’re gonna take down Netanyahu.

TBH, I totally didn’t see this one coming.

Considering the religious right lost 50% of its vote share in a year and there’s more national religious voting Likud than Yamina I’d say they’re all talk but no rock. Also who forced them to sign loyalty papers for over a year when it was sure Bibi would throw them aside the first moment he could?

The settlers don’t need Yamina, and their only core issues are the judicial system and paleoliberterian positions. So long, 4 ego maniacs

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The funny thing about Levy is that her office sounds like a duplicate of the fictive ministry from the cult satire show Polishook. In practice they gave her some of the authorities of internal security including the war on drugs and community security in the Arab sector. Weird move.
B&W are also supposed to appoint this Bedouin professor as a minister for minorities with Peretz in charge of Bedouin development (seems like a long term plan to draw them for JL). But this government would be a massive toe stepping mechanism.

As to Peretz, well he knew as political days are over. Bibi wanted to stick one to Bennet, and Gantz was his friend from the military. I’m not sure how the Likud people aren’t going beserk with ministries given to this nobodies.

The confidence vote will take place today at 20:00 after a new speaker is sworn in.