Canada General Discussion (2019-)

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

It's only a paper candidacy if you don't campaign, and he has already been door knocking.

Does he live in the riding?

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

Nothing especially important, but I'm sure regulars in this thread know this guy.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ksituan/status/1412480864597032971

He's running for the Jagmeet Singh Party apparently 

It's always funny to see whether parties lean in more to the leader's brand or the party brand because that's usually a good indicator of which brand is more popular. We saw "Team Trudeau" back in 2015, and now the NDP seems to be going for "Team Jagmeet"

Somehow I don't think we'll see "Team O'Toole" or "Team Del Duca" anytime soon

[Benjamin Frank]

Nothing especially important, but I'm sure regulars in this thread know this guy.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ksituan/status/1412480864597032971

He's running for the Jagmeet Singh Party apparently 

It's always funny to see whether parties lean in more to the leader's brand or the party brand because that's usually a good indicator of which brand is more popular. We saw "Team Trudeau" back in 2015, and now the NDP seems to be going for "Team Jagmeet"

Somehow I don't think we'll see "Team O'Toole" or "Team Del Duca" anytime soon

Just wait for Del Ducamania.

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

Nothing especially important, but I'm sure regulars in this thread know this guy.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ksituan/status/1412480864597032971

He's running for the Jagmeet Singh Party apparently  

It's always funny to see whether parties lean in more to the leader's brand or the party brand because that's usually a good indicator of which brand is more popular. We saw "Team Trudeau" back in 2015, and now the NDP seems to be going for "Team Jagmeet"

Somehow I don't think we'll see "Team O'Toole" or "Team Del Duca" anytime soon

Just wait for Del Ducamania.

Well first he'll need to give a coherent answer for why he killed Harry Potter's parents

[mileslunn]

Nothing especially important, but I'm sure regulars in this thread know this guy.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ksituan/status/1412480864597032971

Super cool that he's running, and running for the good guys too!

Anyone else buy his Alberta map?

Didn't Tories get over 80% here last time?  I suspect this is one of the safest Tory ridings in whole country.  In Saskatchewan, I think Saskatoon West and Desnethe-Missinippi-Churchill River only ridings I could see NDP flipping. 

No one is under the illusion he will win. It's just nice to see him put his name on the ballot.

Nothing especially important, but I'm sure regulars in this thread know this guy.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ksituan/status/1412480864597032971

Super cool that he's running, and running for the good guys too!

Anyone else buy his Alberta map?

Never underestimate the power of cartography to swing a district.

Didn't Tories get over 80% here last time?  I suspect this is one of the safest Tory ridings in whole country.  In Saskatchewan, I think Saskatoon West and Desnethe-Missinippi-Churchill River only ridings I could see NDP flipping. 

It's a paper candidacy, NDP got only 9.5% there last time

It's only a paper candidacy if you don't campaign, and he has already been door knocking.

Lots of times candidates with future ambitions start in a no hope riding to learn the ropes of campaigning and then next time around run in a more winnable one.  So might be a trial run to learn ropes of campaigning and then in 2025 run in a more winnable one.

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

Conservatives pitch fiscal reform to end 'mistreatment of Western Canadians' - Leader Erin O'Toole, in Calgary a day after PM, says Alberta would get $4B under plan


"The proposal would give Alberta $4 billion in rebates, according to the Conservatives, leaving $1 billion for the rest of the country."

The irony is probably lost on those fine folks who vote CPC because the damn Frenchies in Kwebeck and the lazy fishers in the maritimes steal their hard earned tax dollars through equalization

[mileslunn]

Conservatives pitch fiscal reform to end 'mistreatment of Western Canadians' - Leader Erin O'Toole, in Calgary a day after PM, says Alberta would get $4B under plan


"The proposal would give Alberta $4 billion in rebates, according to the Conservatives, leaving $1 billion for the rest of the country."

The irony is probably lost on those fine folks who vote CPC because the damn Frenchies in Kwebeck and the lazy fishers in the maritimes steal their hard earned tax dollars through equalization

Probably suggests internals are horrible and actually at risk of losing seats in Alberta so trying to shore up that.  Fact Trudeau is in Alberta and seems quite confident suggests to me party internals show they are possibly on cusp of breakthrough there.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Residential schools trutherism/denialism is setting in on the Christian far right, probably surprising nobody. I'm not going to link to it but there's a pretty wed and wild American Conservative piece explicitly arguing that the mass graves are good, actually (as in it uses the phrase "good, actually").

Gave that a read. Quite disturbing. Was amazed at the chutzpah.

I'm very glad to hear you think so too, although I trusted that you would.

[Hatman 🍁]

It's only a paper candidacy if you don't campaign, and he has already been door knocking.

Does he live in the riding?

Yes, he does.

Nothing especially important, but I'm sure regulars in this thread know this guy.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ksituan/status/1412480864597032971

Super cool that he's running, and running for the good guys too!

Anyone else buy his Alberta map?

Didn't Tories get over 80% here last time?  I suspect this is one of the safest Tory ridings in whole country.  In Saskatchewan, I think Saskatoon West and Desnethe-Missinippi-Churchill River only ridings I could see NDP flipping. 

No one is under the illusion he will win. It's just nice to see him put his name on the ballot.

Nothing especially important, but I'm sure regulars in this thread know this guy.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ksituan/status/1412480864597032971

Super cool that he's running, and running for the good guys too!

Anyone else buy his Alberta map?

Never underestimate the power of cartography to swing a district.

Didn't Tories get over 80% here last time?  I suspect this is one of the safest Tory ridings in whole country.  In Saskatchewan, I think Saskatoon West and Desnethe-Missinippi-Churchill River only ridings I could see NDP flipping. 

It's a paper candidacy, NDP got only 9.5% there last time

It's only a paper candidacy if you don't campaign, and he has already been door knocking.

Lots of times candidates with future ambitions start in a no hope riding to learn the ropes of campaigning and then next time around run in a more winnable one.  So might be a trial run to learn ropes of campaigning and then in 2025 run in a more winnable one.

You are confusing parties here. People don't tend to run for the NDP with "future ambitions" in mind (though, there are a few cases of that). His main motivator to run is to give the previous candidate a break.

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

Conservatives pitch fiscal reform to end 'mistreatment of Western Canadians' - Leader Erin O'Toole, in Calgary a day after PM, says Alberta would get $4B under plan


"The proposal would give Alberta $4 billion in rebates, according to the Conservatives, leaving $1 billion for the rest of the country."

The irony is probably lost on those fine folks who vote CPC because the damn Frenchies in Kwebeck and the lazy fishers in the maritimes steal their hard earned tax dollars through equalization

Probably suggests internals are horrible and actually at risk of losing seats in Alberta so trying to shore up that.  Fact Trudeau is in Alberta and seems quite confident suggests to me party internals show they are possibly on cusp of breakthrough there.

Trudeau's trying to make big moves in Alberta, that's for sure. He was in Calgary to announce a new LRT line with Nenshi, he discussed equalization with Kenney, and he just poached a Calgary City councillor to run for the Grits in Skyview (which suggests that the riding is in play, politicians don't just leave behind their office to run in an unwinnable race). Tories have good reason to be worried.

[WindowPhil]

Conservatives pitch fiscal reform to end 'mistreatment of Western Canadians' - Leader Erin O'Toole, in Calgary a day after PM, says Alberta would get $4B under plan


"The proposal would give Alberta $4 billion in rebates, according to the Conservatives, leaving $1 billion for the rest of the country."

The irony is probably lost on those fine folks who vote CPC because the damn Frenchies in Kwebeck and the lazy fishers in the maritimes steal their hard earned tax dollars through equalization

Probably suggests internals are horrible and actually at risk of losing seats in Alberta so trying to shore up that.  Fact Trudeau is in Alberta and seems quite confident suggests to me party internals show they are possibly on cusp of breakthrough there.

Trudeau's trying to make big moves in Alberta, that's for sure. He was in Calgary to announce a new LRT line with Nenshi, he discussed equalization with Kenney, and he just poached a Calgary City councillor to run for the Grits in Skyview (which suggests that the riding is in play, politicians don't just leave behind their office to run in an unwinnable race). Tories have good reason to be worried.

Could you see Trudeau being the longest serving PM in Canadian history?

[Benjamin Frank]

Conservatives pitch fiscal reform to end 'mistreatment of Western Canadians' - Leader Erin O'Toole, in Calgary a day after PM, says Alberta would get $4B under plan


"The proposal would give Alberta $4 billion in rebates, according to the Conservatives, leaving $1 billion for the rest of the country."

The irony is probably lost on those fine folks who vote CPC because the damn Frenchies in Kwebeck and the lazy fishers in the maritimes steal their hard earned tax dollars through equalization

Probably suggests internals are horrible and actually at risk of losing seats in Alberta so trying to shore up that.  Fact Trudeau is in Alberta and seems quite confident suggests to me party internals show they are possibly on cusp of breakthrough there.

Trudeau's trying to make big moves in Alberta, that's for sure. He was in Calgary to announce a new LRT line with Nenshi, he discussed equalization with Kenney, and he just poached a Calgary City councillor to run for the Grits in Skyview (which suggests that the riding is in play, politicians don't just leave behind their office to run in an unwinnable race). Tories have good reason to be worried.

Could you see Trudeau being the longest serving PM in Canadian history?

He's a long way from that.  William Lyon MacKenzie King was Prime Minister for over 21 years.  (Most of 1922-1930, 1935-1948.)

Even topping Pierre Trudeau's roughly 15 years is a long way off.

[DC Al Fine]

Yeah. That's like winning another four majority governments back to back. If Trudeau's still PM in 2032, I'll start seriously asking the question.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Talking of Trudeau Sr., has there been much discussion, given everything, of his record on Native affairs, particularly that time he tried (admittedly without success) to legally abolish Native peoples as peoples? And I do believe that the minister who he used as the hatchet man for that is still alive. Has anyone asked him for a quote?

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

Conservatives pitch fiscal reform to end 'mistreatment of Western Canadians' - Leader Erin O'Toole, in Calgary a day after PM, says Alberta would get $4B under plan


"The proposal would give Alberta $4 billion in rebates, according to the Conservatives, leaving $1 billion for the rest of the country."

The irony is probably lost on those fine folks who vote CPC because the damn Frenchies in Kwebeck and the lazy fishers in the maritimes steal their hard earned tax dollars through equalization

Probably suggests internals are horrible and actually at risk of losing seats in Alberta so trying to shore up that.  Fact Trudeau is in Alberta and seems quite confident suggests to me party internals show they are possibly on cusp of breakthrough there.

Trudeau's trying to make big moves in Alberta, that's for sure. He was in Calgary to announce a new LRT line with Nenshi, he discussed equalization with Kenney, and he just poached a Calgary City councillor to run for the Grits in Skyview (which suggests that the riding is in play, politicians don't just leave behind their office to run in an unwinnable race). Tories have good reason to be worried.

Could you see Trudeau being the longest serving PM in Canadian history?

Do I see Trudeau serving continuously until 2038? No, and I dont think MacKenzie King's record will ever be broken.

Even if Trudeau gets a majority, his days are numbered. Conventional wisdom is that Chrystia Freeland will take over from him sometime before 2025.

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

Talking of Trudeau Sr., has there been much discussion, given everything, of his record on Native affairs, particularly that time he tried (admittedly without success) to legally abolish Native peoples as peoples? And I do believe that the minister who he used as the hatchet man for that is still alive. Has anyone asked him for a quote?

The minister of Indian affairs who presented the 1969 white paper was Jean Chrétien, yes, that one. He lives a pretty private life these days, only showing up now and then in Liberal events. I doubt you'd be able to get an answer or interview from the now-87 years old and recently widowed Chrétien

[Estrella]

Talking of Trudeau Sr., has there been much discussion, given everything, of his record on Native affairs, particularly that time he tried (admittedly without success) to legally abolish Native peoples as peoples? And I do believe that the minister who he used as the hatchet man for that is still alive. Has anyone asked him for a quote?

This story from a 1984 conference about indigenous rights in a patriated constitution is really eye-opening:

In a now infamous exchange, Kwakwaka’wakw lawyer and lead negotiator Bill Wilson states that he has two children who want to become lawyers and prime minister. When he says that they are Indigenous women, the male audience bursts into laughter, and Trudeau replies, “Tell them I’ll stick around until they’re ready.” Over 30 years later, Bill Wilson’s daughter, Jody Wilson-Raybould, became Canada’s first Indigenous minister of justice and attorney general in the government of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.

Incidentally, not long after the failure of Pierre's "what do you mean I can't just wave a wand and make Those People vanish from existence?", said minister ended up adopting an Inuk child from an orphanage. The child later got into some legal trouble with drugs and sexual assault, but from the scant information available, it seems that his adoptive father still supported him.

[Estrella]

Talking of Trudeau Sr., has there been much discussion, given everything, of his record on Native affairs, particularly that time he tried (admittedly without success) to legally abolish Native peoples as peoples? And I do believe that the minister who he used as the hatchet man for that is still alive. Has anyone asked him for a quote?

This story from a 1984 conference about indigenous rights in a patriated constitution is really eye-opening:

In a now infamous exchange, Kwakwaka’wakw lawyer and lead negotiator Bill Wilson states that he has two children who want to become lawyers and prime minister. When he says that they are Indigenous women, the male audience bursts into laughter, and Trudeau replies, “Tell them I’ll stick around until they’re ready.” Over 30 years later, Bill Wilson’s daughter, Jody Wilson-Raybould, became Canada’s first Indigenous minister of justice and attorney general in the government of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.

Incidentally, not long after the failure of Pierre's "what do you mean I can't just wave a wand and make Those People vanish from existence?", said minister ended up adopting an Inuk child from an orphanage. The child later got into some legal trouble with drugs and sexual assault, but from the scant information available, it seems that his adoptive father still supported him.

Being from New Zealand, how do they handle things with Maori? While definitely treated them badly in past and still seems like some issues, it seems much better there so any ideas of why?  Canada's treatment of First Nations and present situation is probably more comparable with Australian Aboriginals.  In fact similarities between two in treatment despite an ocean away is shocking in how similar in so many ways.

_{*cough* not that you could've known, tbh}

Anyway, White colonizers in NZ probably treated the natives most humanely (very relatively speaking of course) of all British colonies. The Treaty of Waitangi was more-or-less conceived as an agreement among equals. Māori have long had influence in politics that First Nations in Canada could only dream of*, like Māori electorates and larger representation in the top echelons of power. Still, there are many issues with poverty and discrimination, and opposition to expansion of Māori land rights is widespread.

IMO, one of the causes of this difference is that Māori is an unified ethnicity in itself, as opposed to the myriad of different groups in Canada or the US. NZ was among the last places on Earth to be settled by humans, only three hundred years before it was discovered by Europeans. The settlers did not have the time to splinter into different nations and stayed as one. This unity enabled them to fight back more effectively and preserve their culture, to the point that Pakeha (ie. Whites) adopted some elements of it. There's also the fact that Māori comprise about 17% of NZ population, compared to Indigenous populations of around 5% in Canada and 3% in Australia. When compared to treatment of Australian Aboriginals, there is certainly another factor, too.

* Occasionally in more nefarious ways as well; Robert Muldoon of all people had connections to Māori gangs.

[King of Kensington]

Gotta shore up that vote in Alberta

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/conservatives-fiscal-stabilization-alberta-1.6095232?__vfz=medium%3Dsharebar&fbclid=IwAR0keYwZQ985UPHRMwua0VjrKzeq97P7q6mQ1UqN7NaMRhpvYAEklc10kfc

[DC Al Fine]

https://twitter.com/NEWS957/status/1413479246509400074

[WindowPhil]

How would you rate the tenure of Chrystia Freeland if these were the accomplishments of her administration?

* Third longest serving PM in Canadian history (17 years and 5 majority governments).

* Established a 1,200 CA$ a month universal basic income for all Canadians.

* Legalized Prostitution throughout Canada, in a heavily regulated system with brothels similar to the one in Australia.

* Changed the national anthem line "God keep our land glorious and free" to "We keep our land glorious and free".

* Amended the Canada Health Act to include universal pharmacare, vision, dental, mental health, and gender transition treatment.

* Instrumental in the creation of the Canada Wireless Act, which further regulates the telecommunications industry. Establishes crown corporations similar to SaskTel across Canada. Breaks up Rogers, Bell and Telus and allows for wireless companies from other Commonwealth of Nations countries to operate in Canada to give consumers more options.

* Instrumental in the creation of the Canada Housing Act. Which is billed as "Universal Healthcare for Housing" and led to Canada having the lowest housing prices per capita in the G20.

* Instrumental in the creation of a High Speed Rail line between Windsor and Quebec City.

* Worked on an agreement with Quebec to change its status from the Province of Quebec to the Autonomous Nation of Quebec. Giving it further autonomy while recognizing it as both wholly Canadian and wholly distinct.

* Instrumental in the establishment of CANZUK, allowing Canadians to live and work freely in Australia, New Zealand and the United Kingdom. While allowing nationals of those nations to live and work freely in Canada with approval from the country as a whole and the province, territory or autonomous nation they intend to move to (thereby satisfying Quebec).

* Admits Turks and Caicos as the 10th province (remember Quebec is now an Autonomous nation and is not technically a province).
 
* Negotiated with the United States to give Puerto Rico the option to enter Canada as an autonomous nation. It votes to join, giving it a status that while similar to Quebec is more self contained. Allowing Puerto Rico to benefit from being part of Canada and Canada to benefit by having a larger economy of scale, cultural diversity and diplomatic foothold in Latin American organizations.

Would she be considered to be the greatest Canadian PM of all time if these were her accomplishments?

[mileslunn]

https://twitter.com/NEWS957/status/1413479246509400074

Wow, so he is switched fall on.  I know he switched to Liberals federally, but I assumed being a Red Tory he would still support the PCs provincially as provincial PCs are still like the old PCs pre-merger whereas federal Tories are not.

[mileslunn]

Third longest serving PM in Canadian history (17 years and 5 majority governments).

 Not likely to happen as nowadays people tend to fatigue after 10 years, maybe 15 if change leaders so I think Liberals lasting that long is extremely unlikely.

Established a 1,200 CA$ a month universal basic income for all Canadians.


While many favour this, not feasible without bankrupting country unless taxes go up a lot.  And just raising on rich won't cut as not enough of them, even if you taxed them at 100%.  Would have to raise GST at least 10% maybe 15% and somehow doubt public would support that.

Legalized Prostitution throughout Canada, in a heavily regulated system with brothels similar to the one in Australia

That is probably coming sooner or later much like legalization with marijuana.

Changed the national anthem line "God keep our land glorious and free" to "We keep our land glorious and free".


That would drive the right nuts, but much like change of all our sons command, I suspect this will come soon too.  We are a super woke nation.

Amended the Canada Health Act to include universal pharmacare, vision, dental, mental health, and gender transition treatment.


Pharmacare I think likely comes if Liberals are in power for another decade.  Dental care is a 50/50

Instrumental in the creation of the Canada Wireless Act, which further regulates the telecommunications industry. Establishes crown corporations similar to SaskTel across Canada. Breaks up Rogers, Bell and Telus and allows for wireless companies from other Commonwealth of Nations countries to operate in Canada to give consumers more options.

I agree something done here but unlikely both.  If more market oriented, then foreign ownership rules dropped which Marc Garneau ran on back in 2014 and Tories favour.  Freeland coming from left of party I think is more likely to go for nationalization, but perhaps opens to competition, but doubt does both.

Instrumental in the creation of the Canada Housing Act. Which is billed as "Universal Healthcare for Housing" and led to Canada having the lowest housing prices per capita in the G20.

I cannot see us having lowest housing prices in G20.  We are richer than many so our housing prices will always be higher than developing countries.  As for lowest in developed world, I will believe it when I see it, but yes if done could make her loved by millennials and Gen Z.  But hated by boomers who largely rely on housing as their primary asset to find retirement.

* Instrumental in the creation of a High Speed Rail line between Windsor and Quebec City.

This would be something that could look good as many talk about it, but no one ever walks the walk so if she achieved this, would be major achievement.

* Worked on an agreement with Quebec to change its status from the Province of Quebec to the Autonomous Nation of Quebec. Giving it further autonomy while recognizing it as both wholly Canadian and wholly distinct.

Not possible, requires constitutional amendment which requires 7 of 10 provinces with 50% + 1 of population support it.  This would probably be type of issue that would help push Alberta and maybe a few other Western provinces to separate.

* Instrumental in the establishment of CANZUK, allowing Canadians to live and work freely in Australia, New Zealand and the United Kingdom. While allowing nationals of those nations to live and work freely in Canada with approval from the country as a whole and the province, territory or autonomous nation they intend to move to (thereby satisfying Quebec).

This seems more a Conservative obsession.  While yes many would like this, I don't think there is much interest of parties on left for this.  Many see it as harkening back to old empire and even political correctness and race will come up as favouring white English speaking countries.  Might go over well in other three, but not in Canada which is a lot more woke than those.  Pretty much any free mobility agreement that is predominately white countries only is a non-starter in Canada.  It must include at least one non-white country and with asides Japan and South Korea (and a few others), most a lot poorer than Canada that seems unlikely anytime soon.

* Admits Turks and Caicos as the 10th province (remember Quebec is now an Autonomous nation and is not technically a province).

Lots of talk about it joining but requires a constitutional amendment.  More likely possibility is it joins an existing province.  Nova Scotia has already said they would take them as part of their province.  Other issue but could easily be worked out is Turks & Caicos Islands has no income tax while Canada has very high rates so people there might not like that.  But perhaps as an inducement maybe say those making less than 50K there would remain exempt and only those higher pay so avoid it becoming a tax haven where all the rich go to avoid paying taxes, but also be acceptable to middle class there.  

* Negotiated with the United States to give Puerto Rico the option to enter Canada as an autonomous nation. It votes to join, giving it a status that while similar to Quebec is more self contained. Allowing Puerto Rico to benefit from being part of Canada and Canada to benefit by having a larger economy of scale, cultural diversity and diplomatic foothold in Latin American organizations.

That is just silly.  More likely Puerto Rico becomes 51st state of US.

In summary some are impossible, some possible and would make her a great one.  One thing to remember is public is a lot more polarized than in past.  We tend to on polarization be about 10-15 years behind US so I think uniting people is a lot tougher than it was historically.  Too many go to echo chambers so isn't same united and common purpose as once was.

[Benjamin Frank]

I'm sure this has been, if not answered, then at least discussed. I've read some of the comments in this thread, but I have to say I haven't seen anybody clearly answer it (not in a way that fully makes sense to me anyway.)

Never mind the polls right after Paul Martin became Liberal leader when it was generally assumed the Liberals would win 250 seats, the low the Conservatives received in an election was 29.6% of the vote in 2004.  According to NANOS, the Conservatives are now at 23.6% support.  It's generally assumed the base for the Conservatives is around 30%.

How does one explain this sharp and sudden drop in support for the Conservatives below what was assumed to be their base?

TBH, it makes no sense to me.

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

I'm sure this has been, if not answered, then at least discussed. I've read some of the comments in this thread, but I have to say I haven't seen anybody clearly answer it (not in a way that fully makes sense to me anyway.)

Never mind the polls right after Paul Martin became Liberal leader when it was generally assumed the Liberals would win 250 seats, the low the Conservatives received in an election was 29.6% of the vote in 2004.  According to NANOS, the Conservatives are now at 23.6% support.  It's generally assumed the base for the Conservatives is around 30%.

How does one explain this sharp and sudden drop in support for the Conservatives below what was assumed to be their base?

TBH, it makes no sense to me.

I definitly think that the Conservative Internal polls have captured a huge surge in support of Western regionalist Parties and are definitly afraid of them becoming a new reform party that ultimately pushes them out of power for a decade similar to the reform Party.

The fact that O'Toole is pandering heavily to Alberta and Saskatchewan with his Equalization rebate policy and other announcements seem to indicate they have givend up winning the election and are instead just trying to hold the west.