COVID-19 Megathread 6: Return of the Omicron

[Horus]

Just curious…

Any vaccinated people starting wearing masks again when going out?  Any choosing not to mask up?

If it's mandated, or in a medical setting. Here in DeKalb county all businesses seem to be mandating them again, other than my local gas station.

I never wear my mask outdoors. That's silly.

[Hammy]

Just curious…

Any vaccinated people starting wearing masks again when going out?  Any choosing not to mask up?

If it's mandated, or in a medical setting. Here in DeKalb county all businesses seem to be mandating them again, other than my local gas station.

I never wear my mask outdoors. That's silly.

I'll add that I don't either. Went to a park around dusk a few days ago and walked around about a half hour, mask free, which was a calming release of a year and a half of built up stress.

[Alben Barkley]

At this point I unironically believe that mask mandates are oppressive. Simply because they target even those who are fully vaccinated and have done everything right, whereas most of those who refuse to get vaccinated are also not going to wear masks anyway. That's a textbook form of collective punishment as far as I'm concerned. Literally the entire thing is now a performative stunt among people who already are effectively immune from the virus (or its worst effects at least) trying to show off to each other how woke and enlightened they are because they cover their faces with a placebo cloth. While the only people who might possibly benefit from it shun and scoff at it. It's incredibly bizarre to me, and alienates me even farther from "my side" (the left) than I already was. And I can't imagine I'm alone in that.

My philosophy about this whole thing now is simple:

1. Let those who insist on dying die. Don't try to interfere with the will of Darwin!

2. Let those of us who long ago made the decision to take the f--king shot and get on with our lives actually do so, rather than continue to try in vain to "protect" those who clearly and adamantly do not want to be "protected."

3. Don't worry about the children, as even an unvaccinated child is still exponentially less likely to die from COVID than a vaccinated middle aged adult, who himself has a smaller risk of dying from COVID than from a bee sting.

The entire thing at this point strikes me now less as a public health concern and more as some bizarre religious ritual crossed with a dick measuring contest. Just STOP. Just STOP already. Leave me alone, leave the kids alone, leave EVERYONE alone. If they are stupid enough to expose themselves to the virus unvaccinated, LET THEM! That is THEIR choice and THEIR problem! Ours is NOT an authoritarian country like China, or at least it's not supposed to be.

Fact of the matter is COVID-19 can now safely be considered a nuisance virus like the flu that CAN be deadly to those who refuse to take the vaccine against it, but ultimately is basically a complete non-threat to those who do and isn't even likely at all to kill most of those who don't. We'll probably be stuck with it forever, like the flu, but we don't HAVE to be stuck with ridiculous Draconian measures to "stop" it forever unless we choose to. These tactics will never actually successfully purge the thing from the Earth but they can and will anger many reasonable people who might otherwise sympathize with the side of the political aisle that is pushing them.

I mean seriously, some of the takes I'm seeing from Twitter and elsewhere seem to be logically implying that any risk whatsoever in life, no matter how minute, is absolutely unacceptable and anyone who believes otherwise is a literal murderer. By this "logic," driving a car is murder, as it is now far, far, far, far, infinite number of FARs more likely to kill a vaccinated adult or child than COVID.

I say the loons who unironically believe we all still need masks can go ahead and lock themselves in bubbles for the rest of their lives and the rest of us can laugh at them as they argue with George Costanza about the correct spelling of "the Moops." But they have to f--k off and leave the rest of us who are not severely psychologically crippled alone to live our lives!

[Meclazine for Israel]

COVID lockdowns in Melbourne extended for 3 weeks.

Sydney also in lockdown and about to turn into the 4th Reich under Kommandant Gladys Berejiklian:

https://www.reddit.com/r/CoronavirusDownunder/comments/pfkk54/nsw_gladys_update_remix/

[beaver2.0]

Just curious…

Any vaccinated people starting wearing masks again when going out?  Any choosing not to mask up?

Yes but where it is required and it seems that it's required almost everywhere here.  I've been to the Costco food court and had lunch there a number of times and (obviously) not worn a mask.

[compucomp]

At this point I unironically believe that mask mandates are oppressive. Simply because they target even those who are fully vaccinated and have done everything right, whereas most of those who refuse to get vaccinated are also not going to wear masks anyway. That's a textbook form of collective punishment as far as I'm concerned. Literally the entire thing is now a performative stunt among people who already are effectively immune from the virus (or its worst effects at least) trying to show off to each other how woke and enlightened they are because they cover their faces with a placebo cloth. While the only people who might possibly benefit from it shun and scoff at it. It's incredibly bizarre to me, and alienates me even farther from "my side" (the left) than I already was. And I can't imagine I'm alone in that.

My philosophy about this whole thing now is simple:

1. Let those who insist on dying die. Don't try to interfere with the will of Darwin!

2. Let those of us who long ago made the decision to take the f--king shot and get on with our lives actually do so, rather than continue to try in vain to "protect" those who clearly and adamantly do not want to be "protected."

3. Don't worry about the children, as even an unvaccinated child is still exponentially less likely to die from COVID than a vaccinated middle aged adult, who himself has a smaller risk of dying from COVID than from a bee sting.

The entire thing at this point strikes me now less as a public health concern and more as some bizarre religious ritual crossed with a dick measuring contest. Just STOP. Just STOP already. Leave me alone, leave the kids alone, leave EVERYONE alone. If they are stupid enough to expose themselves to the virus unvaccinated, LET THEM! That is THEIR choice and THEIR problem! Ours is NOT an authoritarian country like China, or at least it's not supposed to be.

Fact of the matter is COVID-19 can now safely be considered a nuisance virus like the flu that CAN be deadly to those who refuse to take the vaccine against it, but ultimately is basically a complete non-threat to those who do and isn't even likely at all to kill most of those who don't. We'll probably be stuck with it forever, like the flu, but we don't HAVE to be stuck with ridiculous Draconian measures to "stop" it forever unless we choose to. These tactics will never actually successfully purge the thing from the Earth but they can and will anger many reasonable people who might otherwise sympathize with the side of the political aisle that is pushing them.

I mean seriously, some of the takes I'm seeing from Twitter and elsewhere seem to be logically implying that any risk whatsoever in life, no matter how minute, is absolutely unacceptable and anyone who believes otherwise is a literal murderer. By this "logic," driving a car is murder, as it is now far, far, far, far, infinite number of FARs more likely to kill a vaccinated adult or child than COVID.

I say the loons who unironically believe we all still need masks can go ahead and lock themselves in bubbles for the rest of their lives and the rest of us can laugh at them as they argue with George Costanza about the correct spelling of "the Moops." But they have to f--k off and leave the rest of us who are not severely psychologically crippled alone to live our lives!

This post is just wrong on several counts:

1. At this point, nobody is safe from COVID. It's abundantly clear by now that with Delta, breakthrough cases are not rare events at all, and may even be stretching to call them uncommon. There's still protection against severe disease but new data show that is waning; this is why there is now a push for booster shots.

2. Masks are no "placebo", they have repeatedly proven effective at stopping respiratory disease transmission.

3. Masks are a zero cost mitigation measure, a surgical mask costs 5-10c apiece. They don't harm the economy at all, a mask doesn't prevent one from doing anything once the usual exceptions for bars and restaurants are carved out.

If that doesn't convince you, how about this: mask mandates are supported by a majority of the public (source: https://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/documents/monmouthpoll_us_080221.pdf/), including 85% of Democrats. Do you really want to associate yourself with the Trumpist pro-COVID forces, who stormed the Capitol, believe the vaccine is a conspiracy for Bill Gates to mind control the world, and take horse dewormer for COVID? No? Then get in line with your party.

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

For the most part, I'm not against mask mandates in the short term. 

But the rhetoric of "nobody is safe from covid" is really bothersome to me.
It is true that almost nobody is 100% safe from covid.  But that is also true of hundreds of other marginal dangers we face everyday.

We really need to be contextualizing this with the framework of relative risk compared to these other dangers and the daily efforts and costs we use to mitigate those.

For example, is there really any evidence at all that covid is more dangerous in terms of risk of death or serious long-term effect than the flu among vaccinated people?

Even with the delta variant, is there any evidence that covid is more of the threat to children than other common childhood illnesses?

There has been a serious and disturbing lack of data transparency with respect to the actual effectiveness of vaccines, along with the relative risks to different cohorts and age groups with respect to the delta variant.  It is completely mind-blowing to me that is seem like no one is breaking down daily case and death reports by age and vaccination status.

But it actually seems like people on both side are incentivized to hide this information.  Anti-vaxxers of course don't want to see data that will force them to confront how well the vaccines work.  But people on the other side also don't want to admit how well the vaccines work because they think it will encourage the relaxation of other restrictions.

[Horus]

At this point I unironically believe that mask mandates are oppressive. Simply because they target even those who are fully vaccinated and have done everything right, whereas most of those who refuse to get vaccinated are also not going to wear masks anyway. That's a textbook form of collective punishment as far as I'm concerned. Literally the entire thing is now a performative stunt among people who already are effectively immune from the virus (or its worst effects at least) trying to show off to each other how woke and enlightened they are because they cover their faces with a placebo cloth. While the only people who might possibly benefit from it shun and scoff at it. It's incredibly bizarre to me, and alienates me even farther from "my side" (the left) than I already was. And I can't imagine I'm alone in that.

My philosophy about this whole thing now is simple:

1. Let those who insist on dying die. Don't try to interfere with the will of Darwin!

2. Let those of us who long ago made the decision to take the f--king shot and get on with our lives actually do so, rather than continue to try in vain to "protect" those who clearly and adamantly do not want to be "protected."

3. Don't worry about the children, as even an unvaccinated child is still exponentially less likely to die from COVID than a vaccinated middle aged adult, who himself has a smaller risk of dying from COVID than from a bee sting.

The entire thing at this point strikes me now less as a public health concern and more as some bizarre religious ritual crossed with a dick measuring contest. Just STOP. Just STOP already. Leave me alone, leave the kids alone, leave EVERYONE alone. If they are stupid enough to expose themselves to the virus unvaccinated, LET THEM! That is THEIR choice and THEIR problem! Ours is NOT an authoritarian country like China, or at least it's not supposed to be.

Fact of the matter is COVID-19 can now safely be considered a nuisance virus like the flu that CAN be deadly to those who refuse to take the vaccine against it, but ultimately is basically a complete non-threat to those who do and isn't even likely at all to kill most of those who don't. We'll probably be stuck with it forever, like the flu, but we don't HAVE to be stuck with ridiculous Draconian measures to "stop" it forever unless we choose to. These tactics will never actually successfully purge the thing from the Earth but they can and will anger many reasonable people who might otherwise sympathize with the side of the political aisle that is pushing them.

I mean seriously, some of the takes I'm seeing from Twitter and elsewhere seem to be logically implying that any risk whatsoever in life, no matter how minute, is absolutely unacceptable and anyone who believes otherwise is a literal murderer. By this "logic," driving a car is murder, as it is now far, far, far, far, infinite number of FARs more likely to kill a vaccinated adult or child than COVID.

I say the loons who unironically believe we all still need masks can go ahead and lock themselves in bubbles for the rest of their lives and the rest of us can laugh at them as they argue with George Costanza about the correct spelling of "the Moops." But they have to f--k off and leave the rest of us who are not severely psychologically crippled alone to live our lives!

This post is just wrong on several counts:

1. At this point, nobody is safe from COVID. It's abundantly clear by now that with Delta, breakthrough cases are not rare events at all, and may even be stretching to call them uncommon. There's still protection against severe disease but new data show that is waning; this is why there is now a push for booster shots.

2. Masks are no "placebo", they have repeatedly proven effective at stopping respiratory disease transmission.

3. Masks are a zero cost mitigation measure, a surgical mask costs 5-10c apiece. They don't harm the economy at all, a mask doesn't prevent one from doing anything once the usual exceptions for bars and restaurants are carved out.

If that doesn't convince you, how about this: mask mandates are supported by a majority of the public (source: https://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/documents/monmouthpoll_us_080221.pdf/), including 85% of Democrats. Do you really want to associate yourself with the Trumpist pro-COVID forces, who stormed the Capitol, believe the vaccine is a conspiracy for Bill Gates to mind control the world, and take horse dewormer for COVID? No? Then get in line with your party.

Your CCP tendencies are showing here.

[Hammy]

3. Masks are a zero cost mitigation measure, a surgical mask costs 5-10c apiece. They don't harm the economy at all, a mask doesn't prevent one from doing anything once the usual exceptions for bars and restaurants are carved out.

Surgical masks don't do a whole lot for the wearer and don't offer a whole lot of protection from Delta given the high amount of viral load that's out there and that they aren't tight fitting.

N95's are the only thing that are really effective, so at least stop trying to push this as a "zero cost" mitigation.

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

At this point, nobody is safe from COVID. It's abundantly clear by now that with Delta, breakthrough cases are not rare events at all, and may even be stretching to call them uncommon. There's still protection against severe disease but new data show that is waning; this is why there is now a push for booster shots.

Because most Americans overestimate (per polls) the danger of covid by factor of 20-50, I have to put a question: what do you think is chance for a healthy vaccinated and unvaccinated, respectively, 18-30/30-50 years old to get severe disease and dead, respectively, and how's that compares to flu?

[Frodo]

When you go get your third COVID booster shot, ask for Moderna:

https://twitter.com/business/status/1432548424067518465

[Skill and Chance]

3. Masks are a zero cost mitigation measure, a surgical mask costs 5-10c apiece. They don't harm the economy at all, a mask doesn't prevent one from doing anything once the usual exceptions for bars and restaurants are carved out.

Surgical masks don't do a whole lot for the wearer and don't offer a whole lot of protection from Delta given the high amount of viral load that's out there and that they aren't tight fitting.

N95's are the only thing that are really effective, so at least stop trying to push this as a "zero cost" mitigation.

There is data showing that surgical masks are quite statistically effective in reducing spread and somewhat protective for the wearer.  It's not just N95s that help.  There was a great study out of Bangladesh released just today showing a meaningful effect from surgical masks in slowing the spread and protecting the elderly in communities where a majority of the adult population wore them.

[TheTide]

If that doesn't convince you, how about this: mask mandates are supported by a majority of the public (source: https://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/documents/monmouthpoll_us_080221.pdf/), including 85% of Democrats. Do you really want to associate yourself with the Trumpist pro-COVID forces, who stormed the Capitol, believe the vaccine is a conspiracy for Bill Gates to mind control the world, and take horse dewormer for COVID? No? Then get in line with your party.

A lot of other conspiracy theories on other topics are/have been believed by a majority, so perhaps this isn't the best argument.

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

3. Masks are a zero cost mitigation measure, a surgical mask costs 5-10c apiece. They don't harm the economy at all, a mask doesn't prevent one from doing anything once the usual exceptions for bars and restaurants are carved out.

Surgical masks don't do a whole lot for the wearer and don't offer a whole lot of protection from Delta given the high amount of viral load that's out there and that they aren't tight fitting.

N95's are the only thing that are really effective, so at least stop trying to push this as a "zero cost" mitigation.

There is data showing that surgical masks are quite statistically effective in reducing spread and somewhat protective for the wearer.  It's not just N95s that help.  There was a great study out of Bangladesh released just today showing a meaningful effect from surgical masks in slowing the spread and protecting the elderly in communities where a majority of the adult population wore them.

Didn't read the study, but an article about it on WaPo today. While quite intriguing (first randomized study on that matter?), there is one imo very big issue, namely:

Abaluck also noted that the intervention group was found to practice more social distancing, which may complicate the findings on masks. However, he noted that in locations such as mosques, where many participants worshiped, there was “no physical distance,” along with poor indoor ventilation — but there was increased mask-wearing.

We KNOW, that social distancing is essential and one of the most effective way to keep R0 down.

Nevertheless, it seems to be an interesting study. Will be interesting to hear, what smarter than me people (Nate Silver?  ) will say about it [also it isn't peer-reviewed yet].

[Hammy]

3. Masks are a zero cost mitigation measure, a surgical mask costs 5-10c apiece. They don't harm the economy at all, a mask doesn't prevent one from doing anything once the usual exceptions for bars and restaurants are carved out.

Surgical masks don't do a whole lot for the wearer and don't offer a whole lot of protection from Delta given the high amount of viral load that's out there and that they aren't tight fitting.

N95's are the only thing that are really effective, so at least stop trying to push this as a "zero cost" mitigation.

There is data showing that surgical masks are quite statistically effective in reducing spread and somewhat protective for the wearer.  It's not just N95s that help.  There was a great study out of Bangladesh released just today showing a meaningful effect from surgical masks in slowing the spread and protecting the elderly in communities where a majority of the adult population wore them.

How recent was the Bangladesh study? I'll concede that what I'm going on was from last summer.

[_.]

Tennessee takes the lead from Florida (which now is down to fourth) in terms of per capita confirmed cases, a lead it is likely to retain in coming days.

Image Link

Also I really hate to be that guy but...

Called it.


In other news, Georgia is hot on Florida's heels. Expect a rank switch within three days. Possibly less.

Image Link

[Progressive Pessimist]

Tennessee takes the lead from Florida (which now is down to fourth) in terms of per capita confirmed cases, a lead it is likely to retain in coming days.

Image Link

Also I really hate to be that guy but...

Called it.


In other news, Georgia is hot on Florida's heels. Expect a rank switch within three days. Possibly less.

Image Link

Ha! Take that libs! *cough* *wheeze* *death rattle*

[HillGoose]

maybe a bright spot re:anti-vaxxers, i spoke with my brother (who is an avid listener of right-wing conspiracy radio and podcasts) today and apparently he finally decided to get the vaccine because the "new world order" is "releasing variants to kill the unvaccinated" not sure how many are adopting similar views, i don't get around to listening all the new lunatic conspiracy theories, but that's at least one person who was convinced that way. i mean if it does the job??

bizarre.

[GeneralMacArthur]

Man, the only blue states on that list are Hawai'i and Oregon (unless you want to call Georgia a blue state now).

It really is just Republicans killing themselves left and right.  At some point you have to wonder whether COVID will end up being enough to swing the FL gubernatorial election simply because DeSantis will have killed tens of thousands of his own voters.

[Matty]

Man, the only blue states on that list are Hawai'i and Oregon (unless you want to call Georgia a blue state now).

It really is just Republicans killing themselves left and right.  At some point you have to wonder whether COVID will end up being enough to swing the FL gubernatorial election simply because DeSantis will have killed tens of thousands of his own voters.

Florida has a higher vaccination rate than numerous blue states and even NYC, and is above the national avg in % of population vaccinated.

90%+ of deaths in florida are among the unvaccinated. I will NEVER blame a governor (no matter what party) for the death of someone who refused a life-saving vaccine.

Some of you need to learn the concept of personal responsibility.

If you die of covid because you didn't get the vaccine even though you could walk into any grocery store or pharmacy to get it as a same day walk in appointment, that's your fault, not your elected officials' fault.

BTW, numerous states north of the mason dixon line are top 5 right now for % growth in covid cases.

[Hammy]

Florida has a higher vaccination rate than numerous blue states and even NYC, and is above the national avg in % of population vaccinated.

Florida tracks number of vaccinations, not residence, though I don't recall who brought it up--there's likely a lot of people who are out of staters who reside there for a month or two out of the year being vaccinated. Their vaccination number is also "above the national average" because it's averaged by state--with a lot of states with low populations and low vaccination rates artificially dragging down the national average.

If 100% of those listed in Florida are in fact residents, then they are only a half % above the national total.

90%+ of deaths in florida are among the unvaccinated. I will NEVER blame a governor (no matter what party) for the death of someone who refused a life-saving vaccine.

Some of you need to learn the concept of personal responsibility.

If you die of covid because you didn't get the vaccine even though you could walk into any grocery store or pharmacy to get it as a same day walk in appointment, that's your fault, not your elected officials' fault.

While I agree 100% that it's not the government's job to stop people from harming themselves and agree with all of this in concept, this is not purely a personal responsibility problem. The people refusing to vaccinate are directly affecting others, including those who have--they are filling up the ICUs so people with non-COVID emergencies can't be treated, they are straining ambulance services, their actions are causing PTSD in nurses who have to continue watching patients die (or are opting to quit to avoid dealing with this), and now places in Florida are having to ration water use as they are running out of liquid oxygen (which is going to unvaccinated covid patients) that treats it.


Governors in Florida and Texas who try to ban mitigation measures, or downplay what this is doing to the healthcare system (leading to more recklessness) absolutely deserve blame, as do those in midwestern states spewing dangerous antivax theories, along with people like Cuomo who put their public image above all, absolutely deserve all the blame they recieve.

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

Governors in Florida and Texas who try to ban mitigation measures, or downplay what this is doing to the healthcare system (leading to more recklessness) absolutely deserve blame, as do those in midwestern states spewing dangerous antivax theories, along with people like Cuomo who put their public image above all, absolutely deserve all the blame they recieve.

A lot of states were hit harder than FL/TX during last winter/spring, for instance CA/MA/NY despite way more and stricter "mitigation measures" (masking? what's more?). It might work in very short run (so unclear, seems like weather/luck matters way more), but in long run it simple doesn't work. What work are vaccines. So if you want to drag them, drag for right things, not for symbolic theater.

[It’s so Joever]

maybe a bright spot re:anti-vaxxers, i spoke with my brother (who is an avid listener of right-wing conspiracy radio and podcasts) today and apparently he finally decided to get the vaccine because the "new world order" is "releasing variants to kill the unvaccinated" not sure how many are adopting similar views, i don't get around to listening all the new lunatic conspiracy theories, but that's at least one person who was convinced that way. i mean if it does the job??

bizarre.

When you find the correct answer on a math quiz with the wrong method.

[GeneralMacArthur]

Man, the only blue states on that list are Hawai'i and Oregon (unless you want to call Georgia a blue state now).

It really is just Republicans killing themselves left and right.  At some point you have to wonder whether COVID will end up being enough to swing the FL gubernatorial election simply because DeSantis will have killed tens of thousands of his own voters.

Florida has a higher vaccination rate than numerous blue states and even NYC, and is above the national avg in % of population vaccinated.

90%+ of deaths in florida are among the unvaccinated. I will NEVER blame a governor (no matter what party) for the death of someone who refused a life-saving vaccine.

Some of you need to learn the concept of personal responsibility.

If you die of covid because you didn't get the vaccine even though you could walk into any grocery store or pharmacy to get it as a same day walk in appointment, that's your fault, not your elected officials' fault.

BTW, numerous states north of the mason dixon line are top 5 right now for % growth in covid cases.

Florida is a unique case because they have a large elderly population and seniors in every state are 75%+ vaccinated.  But the governor has stood in the way of literally every single other public health and safety measure and done everything he can to kneecap the public health infrastructure while encouraging the population to engage in dangerous, disease-spreading behavior.

So while the folks who got vaccinated may be safe, the virus is absolutely ravaging the unvaccinated.  And if FL's vaccination rate was closer to the 40% of its sister red states, rather than 53%, the sheer volume of death and suffering would be even more staggering than it already is.


By the way -- since my comment was about the entire chart and not just Florida -- Florida is actually a big outlier in terms of vaccination rate.  At 53% it's the highest vaccination rate among red states.  Nebraska is the only other red state over 50%.  All the other red states are under 50% vaccinated.  On the other hand, Nevada (48%) is the only blue state below 50%.  There are five red states (ID, WY, MS, AL, WV) that haven't even hit 40% yet.  Meanwhile ten blue states are above 60% -- including New York.

[ProudModerate2]

maybe a bright spot re:anti-vaxxers, i spoke with my brother (who is an avid listener of right-wing conspiracy radio and podcasts) today and apparently he finally decided to get the vaccine because the "new world order" is "releasing variants to kill the unvaccinated" not sure how many are adopting similar views, i don't get around to listening all the new lunatic conspiracy theories, but that's at least one person who was convinced that way. i mean if it does the job??

bizarre.

Wow. Just wow.