SCOTUS overturns Roe megathread (pg 53 - confirmed)

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

This is Ginnsberg fault that's why she will never be regarded as one of the Greatest Judge she will be remembered as long as Rs maintain their Supermajority as the one that let Trump get ACB, I didn't watch her funeral, she should of retired she knew she was sick everyone knows their body and she could sit thru cases

[Adam Griffin]

All Democrats (especially at the state level) have to do is start yelling "Marbury v. Madison" and/or "judicial review" - or what? Is the Supreme Court going to send in its army?

This country has been on Terri Schiavo levels of life support for the past 40 years. Let's just get it over with now. Who's going to win, after all: the tightly-clustered and defensible population centers allied with multinational corporations who actually own most of the land, food, water and utility operations alongside the educated people who actually fly the drones, turn the keys and drop the bombs, or....the rubes whose Walmarts, pharmacies, utilities and grocery stores can be red-zoned, along with those who spent 20 weeks in basic/AIT and/or can shoot at planes with 1% accuracy?

Kudos to whomever reported this. And we're supposedly the snowflakes!

[super6646]

What a ing travesty this can happen in a developed country in the 21st century.

Guarantee many of the same pro-lifers are all about “my body my choice” with the vaccine and demand the gov to stay away from regulating their guns even if lives would be saved. What the hell is going on with the US?

tbf the whole "my body, my choice" when it came to COVID restrictions started as something to point out that most pro-choicers were completely fine with giving up bodily autonomy to save other humans when it came to that issue, but not when it comes to an issue that is literally designed to kill humans.

An abortion is strictly a matter for the person dealing with it. A vaccine is a rather minor inconvenience at worse for 99.99% of people that has a tremendous utilitarian purpose for society as a whole, and not doing so was to a detriment for 0 rational reasoning besides “well I don’t trust the experts”. I don’t see the comparison whatsoever. Just being selfish in the worst of ways in both cases.

One person that dealt with the issue of abortion was my grandchild who died in an abortion.  That child would be 20 years old now.  That child felt pain before they died; pain that you would Constitutionally object to if it were felt by a convicted murderer, and pain that you would have more pity for if it were suffered by an unborn animal.

What would you say to that unborn child as they felt the pain death by abortion brings?

I don't get maudlin about this subject, but I'm certainly thinking about it today.  My unborn grandchild is with Jesus for Eternity and has no memory of the pain.  That does not justify the actions of humans on this Earth.  

You and I have no idea as to whether that fetus felt pain, but the evidence is scant at best

https://www.livescience.com/54774-fetal-pain-anesthesia.html

The religious stuff aside, there is no utility to banning abortion (which will happen in certain states) besides appealing to an minority sect of the population. Last I remember, the US doesn’t have an official state religion, so why should the lord’s imposition be forced upon everyone?

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

What a ing travesty this can happen in a developed country in the 21st century.

Guarantee many of the same pro-lifers are all about “my body my choice” with the vaccine and demand the gov to stay away from regulating their guns even if lives would be saved. What the hell is going on with the US?

tbf the whole "my body, my choice" when it came to COVID restrictions started as something to point out that most pro-choicers were completely fine with giving up bodily autonomy to save other humans when it came to that issue, but not when it comes to an issue that is literally designed to kill humans.

An abortion is strictly a matter for the person dealing with it. A vaccine is a rather minor inconvenience at worse for 99.99% of people that has a tremendous utilitarian purpose for society as a whole, and not doing so was to a detriment for 0 rational reasoning besides “well I don’t trust the experts”. I don’t see the comparison whatsoever. Just being selfish in the worst of ways in both cases.

One person that dealt with the issue of abortion was my grandchild who died in an abortion.  That child would be 20 years old now.  That child felt pain before they died; pain that you would Constitutionally object to if it were felt by a convicted murderer, and pain that you would have more pity for if it were suffered by an unborn animal.

What would you say to that unborn child as they felt the pain death by abortion brings?

I don't get maudlin about this subject, but I'm certainly thinking about it today.  My unborn grandchild is with Jesus for Eternity and has no memory of the pain.  That does not justify the actions of humans on this Earth.  

You and I have no idea as to whether that fetus felt pain, but the evidence is scant at best

https://www.livescience.com/54774-fetal-pain-anesthesia.html

The religious stuff aside, there is no utility to banning abortion (which will happen in certain states) besides appealing to an minority sect of the population. Last I remember, the US doesn’t have an official state religion, so why should the lord’s imposition be forced upon everyone?

Keep telling yourself that.  

https://lozierinstitute.org/new-study-shows-unborn-babies-feel-pain-at-12-weeks

Dr. David Prentice, Vice President and Research Director of the Charlotte Lozier Institute commented:

“Unborn babies feel pain. The science has clearly shown for years that unborn children can perceive pain in the womb, but this is a significant admission by doctors on both sides of the abortion debate, recognizing that even early in human development, the unborn can feel pain. And as the authors note, ‘the mere experience of pain…is morally significant.’ Science again points to the humanity of the unborn.”

[super6646]

What a ing travesty this can happen in a developed country in the 21st century.

Guarantee many of the same pro-lifers are all about “my body my choice” with the vaccine and demand the gov to stay away from regulating their guns even if lives would be saved. What the hell is going on with the US?

tbf the whole "my body, my choice" when it came to COVID restrictions started as something to point out that most pro-choicers were completely fine with giving up bodily autonomy to save other humans when it came to that issue, but not when it comes to an issue that is literally designed to kill humans.

An abortion is strictly a matter for the person dealing with it. A vaccine is a rather minor inconvenience at worse for 99.99% of people that has a tremendous utilitarian purpose for society as a whole, and not doing so was to a detriment for 0 rational reasoning besides “well I don’t trust the experts”. I don’t see the comparison whatsoever. Just being selfish in the worst of ways in both cases.

One person that dealt with the issue of abortion was my grandchild who died in an abortion.  That child would be 20 years old now.  That child felt pain before they died; pain that you would Constitutionally object to if it were felt by a convicted murderer, and pain that you would have more pity for if it were suffered by an unborn animal.

What would you say to that unborn child as they felt the pain death by abortion brings?

I don't get maudlin about this subject, but I'm certainly thinking about it today.  My unborn grandchild is with Jesus for Eternity and has no memory of the pain.  That does not justify the actions of humans on this Earth.  

You and I have no idea as to whether that fetus felt pain, but the evidence is scant at best

https://www.livescience.com/54774-fetal-pain-anesthesia.html

The religious stuff aside, there is no utility to banning abortion (which will happen in certain states) besides appealing to an minority sect of the population. Last I remember, the US doesn’t have an official state religion, so why should the lord’s imposition be forced upon everyone?

Keep telling yourself that.  

https://lozierinstitute.org/new-study-shows-unborn-babies-feel-pain-at-12-weeks

Dr. David Prentice, Vice President and Research Director of the Charlotte Lozier Institute commented:

“Unborn babies feel pain. The science has clearly shown for years that unborn children can perceive pain in the womb, but this is a significant admission by doctors on both sides of the abortion debate, recognizing that even early in human development, the unborn can feel pain. And as the authors note, ‘the mere experience of pain…is morally significant.’ Science again points to the humanity of the unborn.”

https://jme.bmj.com/content/46/1/3

“ Fetal pain has long been a contentious issue, in large part because fetal pain is often cited as a reason to restrict access to termination of pregnancy or abortion. We have divergent views regarding the morality of abortion, but have come together to address the evidence for fetal pain.”

“ The precise nature of fetal pain experience remains unknown and will, perhaps, remain forever unknowable. None of us can return to a state of conscious “innocence” to report on existence before our self-reflective lives. ”

Article notes that later stage abortions should see anaesthetics applied and there is a possibly it could be as soon as 12 weeks to have pain, or not until 24 weeks, and that even then there’s contentiousness.

So no, not settled science, and not an issue that should have been reopened. “Party of personal liberty”, ridiculous.

[DaleCooper]

Our God IS an Awesome God!

This decision is only ging to drive younger people further and further away from religion. You do realise that?

Four people to date have recommended this, none of which have a history of caring what God might thing enough to change their mind on an issue.  I take these assessments with a grain of salt.  

I can assure you that God's reputation is in the toilet, especially among younger people in this country, and it's "Christians" who have put it there. Prominent Christians in this country made the decision a while back to whore themselves and their faith out for worldly influence, and because of that sin, Christianity in the US is now often seen as a brand or cultural identity rather than a genuine faith. And that's a reputation that all Christians, even the good ones, have to deal with now.

Christians have forgotten what they're here for, and that's to serve others and lead people to Christ. It's not to save the world themselves through political action. Look at Trump, one of the men most responsible for this repeal. He's a hell-bound man. Trump is 76 and will soon die, and the "Christians" who have been kissing his ass for the last few years have never once bothered to attempt to lead that man to Christ. Even worse, they're willing to publicly pretend that he's Christian because they need his influence and power. They're fine with him and his devotees burning in hell if it means they can get some more political power to push whatever their next issue is. It's goddamn disgusting. How can you possibly expect people who don't already agree with you to take anything you say related to God seriously?

I've heard this from you already.  We agree on some subjects, but not this one.

"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction."
Proverbs 1:7, KJV.  The word "fool" has a powerful meaning in Scripture, implying someone who is both unreasonable and unteachable.  If people are beginning to think that maybe they're not on God's Side on this issue, that is all to the good.  I hope their discomfort grows to the point to where they cry out to God, who is lovingly waiting for them to come.

That has nothing to do with what I said.

Let the reader decide.  I'm sorry that my religious convictions didn't lead me to vote the way you'd like me to, but my reasoning is far more consistent and Biblical than those who argue that a Biblical Christian ought to have voted for Biden. 

The Biden Administration has unleashed the Forces of Mordor against the church.  They are actively anti-Christian, not just passively.  Voting is a choice between two (2) individuals, not an endorsement of that candidate's every issue position.  I have no regrets as to my 2016 and 2020 votes. 

I'm not talking about voting, I'm talking about exploiting the name of Jesus Christ for political power and deliberately ignoring their Christian obligations in order to maintain worldly power.

That's not what I'm about, and my personal life proves that.

That's frankly not what my church is like.  I would not belong to an overtly political church.  There is a point where Scripture demands that one take a position on public issues, and abortion is certainly one of those.

You're still missing the point. You were incredulous about why Americans are losing faith in God and I'm telling that the idolatry and hypocrisy of American Christians is a big part of why that's the case.

I'm also not talking about people voting for Trump. I'm talking about the so-called Christian faith leaders who are content to stand alongside him in the name of God and ignore his rank, unrepentant adultery, ignore the fact that he is unsaved, and ignore the fact that he is leading all of his devotees straight to hell just so that they can acquire more political power and achieve success in this world. If you're keeping your mouth shut about salvation simply to accommodate the political authority or allies that you want the grace of, then please also shut the hell up about being a Christian. You can oppose abortion without selling out Jesus Christ in the process, and you can certainly do it without the help of money-grubbing, power-hungry spiritual whores who are turning more and more people away from Christ by the day.

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

Um...wow. This was unexpected.

https://twitter.com/SenBobCasey/status/1540345011941900289

Now abortion isn't about "morals"  It isn't about "healthcare".  It isn't about "birth control".  It isn't about "privacy" any more than any other medical procedure.

It's about the issue of where HUMAN LIFE begins.  If that weren't the issue, there wouldn't be the ruckus.  This issue would have died 50 years ago with opposition to over-the-counter comdoms.

I have never been as disgusted with a politician as I am with Bob Casey, Jr. today.  Here's a guy who said he was a pro-life Democrat, but a statement such as this suggests that his principles on a life-and-death issue were paper-thin.  It's as if he posed to get elected, but now found a reason to give up the pose because he's from Pennsylvania and (most likely) wants to be President.

Those of you being pompous here, preaching about Christians making money off the Gospel (and, no, i'm not a supporter of Jesus, Inc.) ought to be calling out this utter shamelessness.  Was Bob Casey a fake all of these years?  Or is he fake now?  This is a guy that politically profited off the reputation of his pro-life Father to get elected, and now he's a shameless flip-flopper on a life-and-death issue.

I loathe Mitt Romney, but Mittens was never as shameless as this.  Not on his worst day.

[DaleCooper]

All Democrats (especially at the state level) have to do is start yelling "Marbury v. Madison" and/or "judicial review" - or what? Is the Supreme Court going to send in its army?

This country has been on Terri Schiavo levels of life support for the past 40 years. Let's just get it over with now. Who's going to win, after all: the tightly-clustered and defensible population centers allied with multinational corporations who actually own most of the land, food, water and utility operations alongside the educated people who actually fly the drones, turn the keys and drop the bombs, or....the rubes whose Walmarts, pharmacies, utilities and grocery stores can be red-zoned, along with those who spent 20 weeks in basic/AIT and/or can shoot at planes with 1% accuracy?

Kudos to whomever reported this. And we're supposedly the snowflakes!

Someone reported one of my posts too. I think it was either one of my religious posts or the one about the Russian/American publics.

[GoTfan]

Um...wow. This was unexpected.

https://twitter.com/SenBobCasey/status/1540345011941900289

Now abortion isn't about "morals"  It isn't about "healthcare".  It isn't about "birth control".  It isn't about "privacy" any more than any other medical procedure.

It's about the issue of where HUMAN LIFE begins.  If that weren't the issue, there wouldn't be the ruckus.  This issue would have died 50 years ago with opposition to over-the-counter comdoms.

I have never been as disgusted with a politician as I am with Bob Casey, Jr. today.  Here's a guy who said he was a pro-life Democrat, but a statement such as this suggests that his principles on a life-and-death issue were paper-thin.  It's as if he posed to get elected, but now found a reason to give up the pose because he's from Pennsylvania and (most likely) wants to be President.

Those of you being pompous here, preaching about Christians making money off the Gospel (and, no, i'm not a supporter of Jesus, Inc.) ought to be calling out this utter shamelessness.  Was Bob Casey a fake all of these years?  Or is he fake now?  This is a guy that politically profited off the reputation of his pro-life Father to get elected, and now he's a shameless flip-flopper on a life-and-death issue.

I loathe Mitt Romney, but Mittens was never as shameless as this.  Not on his worst day.

Wrong.

It's about a tiny minority of theocrats like yourself enforcing your sense of morality on everyone else.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Now, we know as I previously, said that D's was so concerned about a backlash on Crt packing this frees them up if they get the Secularist Trifecta to pack the Crt, if it's a 53/47 PA, WI and OH Senate plus 218 in the H they can pass DC Statehood and get 55 Senators to pack the Crt, Sinema and Manchin will never go for Crt packing but other Ds will

This also helps Demings and Beasley who were seen as too socialistic as Harris types, they will be seen now in a much better light that's why I put NC and FL  on my map

[fhtagn]

https://twitter.com/BonillaJL/status/1540378925074944016?t=jNL6CQG1KXxaqxBZQ6zcf...

[Devout Centrist]

Pretty significant turnout at the protest I attended in Phoenix today - probably in the range of 2.5-5k? Not breaking any records obviously, but great numbers for such short notice.

Overall it was peaceful. There were a few counter demonstrators in blue MAGA hats carrying around crucifixes. Standard crazy person stuff.

The cops did start shooting off tear gas at us by the end of the night. A small group of demonstrators got near the entrance to the Capitol (no signs of forced entry or violence I might add!). Cops started firing tear gas without warning when that happened. They just can't help themselves!

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Pretty significant turnout at the protest I attended in Phoenix today - probably in the range of 2.5-5k? Not breaking any records obviously, but great numbers for such short notice.

Overall it was peaceful. There were a few counter demonstrators in blue MAGA hats carrying around crucifixes. Standard crazy person stuff.

The cops did start shooting off tear gas at us by the end of the night. A small group of demonstrators got near the entrance to the Capitol (no signs of ]or violence I might add!). Cops started firing tear gas without warning when that happened. They just can't help themselves!

Certainly made headlines so good on that.

[Kleine Scheiße]

the penalty for treason is prescribed in the constitution

[Middle-aged Europe]

In general I believe that this forum is way too male to actually discuss abortion in any meaningful manner, but alas.

[Person Man]

Based Tony Evers said that he won't appoint any DAs who will enforce any ban on abortion and he'll immediately pardon anyone charged with a crime for one.

In a Republican gerrymandered state that becomes D held, that will be what we can expect.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

https://twitter.com/RobOHanrahan/status/1540631005530308608?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoog...

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

Um...wow. This was unexpected.

https://twitter.com/SenBobCasey/status/1540345011941900289

Now abortion isn't about "morals"  It isn't about "healthcare".  It isn't about "birth control".  It isn't about "privacy" any more than any other medical procedure.

It's about the issue of where HUMAN LIFE begins.  If that weren't the issue, there wouldn't be the ruckus.  This issue would have died 50 years ago with opposition to over-the-counter comdoms.

I have never been as disgusted with a politician as I am with Bob Casey, Jr. today.  Here's a guy who said he was a pro-life Democrat, but a statement such as this suggests that his principles on a life-and-death issue were paper-thin.  It's as if he posed to get elected, but now found a reason to give up the pose because he's from Pennsylvania and (most likely) wants to be President.

Those of you being pompous here, preaching about Christians making money off the Gospel (and, no, i'm not a supporter of Jesus, Inc.) ought to be calling out this utter shamelessness.  Was Bob Casey a fake all of these years?  Or is he fake now?  This is a guy that politically profited off the reputation of his pro-life Father to get elected, and now he's a shameless flip-flopper on a life-and-death issue.

I loathe Mitt Romney, but Mittens was never as shameless as this.  Not on his worst day.

Wrong.

It's about a tiny minority of theocrats like yourself enforcing your sense of morality on everyone else.

Perhaps you and those who agree with you are wrong, and God, Himself is making it clear.

This Forum is full of people trying to impose their secular morality on me.  This is hardly a "Live, and Let Live" place.  That's not good enough for many here on many issues.  Perhaps you can spend today thinking that God has a side in this issue, and you're out of sync with Him.  I know that many here simply think that's not possible, but maybe, just maybe, that's what's happening here.

[DaleCooper]

Um...wow. This was unexpected.

https://twitter.com/SenBobCasey/status/1540345011941900289

Now abortion isn't about "morals"  It isn't about "healthcare".  It isn't about "birth control".  It isn't about "privacy" any more than any other medical procedure.

It's about the issue of where HUMAN LIFE begins.  If that weren't the issue, there wouldn't be the ruckus.  This issue would have died 50 years ago with opposition to over-the-counter comdoms.

I have never been as disgusted with a politician as I am with Bob Casey, Jr. today.  Here's a guy who said he was a pro-life Democrat, but a statement such as this suggests that his principles on a life-and-death issue were paper-thin.  It's as if he posed to get elected, but now found a reason to give up the pose because he's from Pennsylvania and (most likely) wants to be President.

Those of you being pompous here, preaching about Christians making money off the Gospel (and, no, i'm not a supporter of Jesus, Inc.) ought to be calling out this utter shamelessness.  Was Bob Casey a fake all of these years?  Or is he fake now?  This is a guy that politically profited off the reputation of his pro-life Father to get elected, and now he's a shameless flip-flopper on a life-and-death issue.

I loathe Mitt Romney, but Mittens was never as shameless as this.  Not on his worst day.

Wrong.

It's about a tiny minority of theocrats like yourself enforcing your sense of morality on everyone else.

Perhaps you and those who agree with you are wrong, and God, Himself is making it clear.

This Forum is full of people trying to impose their secular morality on me.  This is hardly a "Live, and Let Live" place.  That's not good enough for many here on many issues.  Perhaps you can spend today thinking that God has a side in this issue, and you're out of sync with Him.  I know that many here simply think that's not possible, but maybe, just maybe, that's what's happening here.

How come you ignored my comment about how American Christians are often willing to ally with unbelievers and deliberately avoid calling out their anti-Christ beliefs and behavior for political gain?

[afleitch]

The phrase I would employ is 'become ungovernable'

That's the best interim solution; don't overshare anymore.
Don't snitch. Don't tell. Ditch info sharing pregnancy or period tracking apps. Maintain and establish a not at all secret system of support for those seeking terminations at home, across state lines or abroad. Go 'out of town'. No questions asked. Do everything possible to drain prohibitive states of labour and skills.

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

Um...wow. This was unexpected.

https://twitter.com/SenBobCasey/status/1540345011941900289

Now abortion isn't about "morals"  It isn't about "healthcare".  It isn't about "birth control".  It isn't about "privacy" any more than any other medical procedure.

It's about the issue of where HUMAN LIFE begins.  If that weren't the issue, there wouldn't be the ruckus.  This issue would have died 50 years ago with opposition to over-the-counter comdoms.

I have never been as disgusted with a politician as I am with Bob Casey, Jr. today.  Here's a guy who said he was a pro-life Democrat, but a statement such as this suggests that his principles on a life-and-death issue were paper-thin.  It's as if he posed to get elected, but now found a reason to give up the pose because he's from Pennsylvania and (most likely) wants to be President.

Those of you being pompous here, preaching about Christians making money off the Gospel (and, no, i'm not a supporter of Jesus, Inc.) ought to be calling out this utter shamelessness.  Was Bob Casey a fake all of these years?  Or is he fake now?  This is a guy that politically profited off the reputation of his pro-life Father to get elected, and now he's a shameless flip-flopper on a life-and-death issue.

I loathe Mitt Romney, but Mittens was never as shameless as this.  Not on his worst day.

Wrong.

It's about a tiny minority of theocrats like yourself enforcing your sense of morality on everyone else.

Perhaps you and those who agree with you are wrong, and God, Himself is making it clear.

This Forum is full of people trying to impose their secular morality on me.  This is hardly a "Live, and Let Live" place.  That's not good enough for many here on many issues.  Perhaps you can spend today thinking that God has a side in this issue, and you're out of sync with Him.  I know that many here simply think that's not possible, but maybe, just maybe, that's what's happening here.

How come you ignored my comment about how American Christians are often willing to ally with unbelievers and deliberately avoid calling out their anti-Christ beliefs and behavior for political gain?

On a secular plane, there's nothing wrong with that.  Evangelical Christians have deep divisions with many secular people on matters of Eternal Siginificance.  Again:  I have never said that Donald Trump has been saved, or has lived what one would consider a "sanctified" life. 

We also have deep divisions and disagreements in matters of Eternal Significance with many Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Mormons, Jews, and Muslims, but we DO have (on a secular plane) areas of agreement with many of these people, and see nothing wrong with this.  I certainly don't agree with these other groups on important matters of theology, but we DO have agreement with many folks in these groups on the issue of abortion (and what God thinks about it), the role of the Family in society and the fact that God ordained the Family (long before He ordained the Church, as a matter of fact).  I have been critical of folks like Franklin Graham, who took down sections of his website which presented deep theological differences with Mormonism when he was supporting Mitt Romney.  Those theological differences are not trivial and should not be papered over, but they should not stop someone who is in Fundamental agreement with them on abortion, and on issues where Scripture is at odds with Secularism.

The Parable of the Two Sons
28 “What do you think? There was a man who had two sons. He went to the first and said, ‘Son, go and work today in the vineyard.’

29 “‘I will not,’ he answered, but later he changed his mind and went.

30 “Then the father went to the other son and said the same thing. He answered, ‘I will, sir,’ but he did not go.

31 “Which of the two did what his father wanted?”

“The first,” they answered.

Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. 32 For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.

Donald Trump did the will of the Father while President (from our perspective).  Joe Biden is in open rebellion against the father (although he hasn't always been).  I justify my vote on that.

I've answered your question.  More than once.  You can disagree with me all you want, but my discussion with you on this particular issue is over.  If you say I haven't answered your question, you're "misspeaking" at best and "trolling" at worst.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

It's all on the news each and every hour ike we are ending Desegregation, Lol it's important that it's gonna lose this right but is not the beginning of segregation, it's gonna energize the under 30 yr olds whom we're thinking about sitting out and in realizet from 40% to 60% that's what it's gonna do we can see a Prez turnout but we still have inflation and we are at the greatest income inequality since the 1970s and the difference is projects in the 1970s and they gave out Pandemic Rental assistance and no Section 8

But, some may think that Thomas may revisit ridding porn when he says end Griswold but more likely what's gonna happen it won't be a federal ban it would go back to states for every issue

Anthony Kennedy was nowhere near retired and he gave his seat to Trump as well as Ginsberg didn't retire

[Hindsight was 2020]

When I think of doing Yahweh’s will the first thing that comes to wind is destroying democratic institutions and ripping children away from their parents and shoving them in cages

[DaleCooper]

Since the conversation is over and I'm supposedly trolling I won't clutter the thread by quoting Fuzzy's post, but I will explain my point to anyone reading and also explain why it's relevant to this thread. I'm an ex-evangelical so I'm going to channel my old self and write this from that perspective, if you'll indulge me for a few paragraphs.

I want it to be clear that the religious talk on this issue from people like Fuzzy is a political performance done for the exclusive purpose of achieving success in secular government. This is about ending abortion, but it's not about serving God, at least not serving God the way the Bible demands it. Contrary to what Fuzzy seems to think I believe, I don't think it's wrong to agree with someone on a particular issue. What I'm talking about is tolerating and accommodating sinful and anti-Christ behavior in order to further a secular political goal. Denying God in the presence of unsaved people who need to hear the gospel is anti-Christ to the core. Holding hands with those who stand for a false, hell-bound religious system and pretending that they represent righteousness is anti-Christ to the core, no matter how impressive your political goal is. You're selling out God in order to achieve earthly accomplishments.

The issue I kept bringing up that Fuzzy refused to answer, and yes he did refuse to directly address it, relates to downplaying, withholding, and perverting the gospel in order to achieve more political power, regardless of what the end results are. He and other Christians are eager to twist the gospel around to make it seem like Trump is a Christian, but that's BS. We all know he would never extend such license to anyone else. Everyone knows behind the scenes that Trump does not believe in Jesus Christ as a savior, and regardless of whatever he claims to believe, Donald Trump is an unrepentant adulterer. The scripture is clear: God hates divorce, those who divorce and remarry are living in adultery, and there is no place for adulterers in the Kingdom of Heaven. For Christians to stand by him, worship his image, or ignore his behavior sends a message to the world that unrepentant unbelief and immorality are a-okay. You're bearing false witness to the world, ignoring an opportunity to preach the truth to men in hopes that some of them might be saved, all in exchange for power.

If you're still with me, my question is, "Why is it okay for Trump's 'Christian' entourage to withhold this information from him and encourage him to continue as he is and wind up in hell when he inevitably dies, as all men do?" The answer here, which Fuzzy unintentionally admitted, is that political victories in these cases are more important than the salvation of those allies who serve to further Christian influence in secular government. If the Christians who have sold their souls for political power were willing to warn Trump of his eternal fate, then they might lose access to him. They're willing to let Trump and his devotees remain blissfully ignorant on their way to hell if it means an abortion-related win. They're willing to deny Christ and adopt a fake milquetoast Jesus if it means achieving some piddling abortion victory.

I know a few people who are devout Christians and desperately want to end abortion. They vote, of course, but they also dedicate their time to helping pregnant women in need as well as families with children who have been born, they pray, and they're able to do all that without denying Christ in the presence of unbelievers for political gain. They don't whore themselves out to secular authorities, like most of the Christian Right does.

If you've stuck with me through this miserable, probably terrible post, thank you. The tl;dr is basically that you can oppose abortion while serving God, or you can forsake God to achieve political success in opposition to abortion or any other cultural issue. Don't let the people doing the latter ever talk a big game to you about how they're representing Christ. See it for what it is: a political strategy. It's as empty as "Hope & Change"

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

How come you ignored my comment about how American Christians are often willing to ally with unbelievers and deliberately avoid calling out their anti-Christ beliefs and behavior for political gain?

Because there's nothing he wouldn't accept to achieve theocracy. He doesn't care if we accept Christianity in our hearts because his aspiration is a world where we are made to follow its rules anyway or burn (both in real life and imaginary lava jail).

Unfortunately, I see relations between Christians and non-Christians becoming far worse and more violent as a result of this philosophy and opportunists using its believers. Americans are a people who like to decide our fate, and the Evangelicals follow a strategy of political entrenchment rather than democratic persuasion. At least some seem to think it will be fine because they can use the pretense of legitimacy to shoot everyone who protests demanding to vote for their government.

This is depressing but true. Anyone who's Christian is going to be, by default, assumed to support this decision, regardless of where their church actually stands. But there's not going to be any nuanced discussion of abortion in the coming years. We will hear the secular view and the religious fundamentalist view but not much else. Because $$$$