SCOTUS overturns Roe megathread (pg 53 - confirmed)

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

Goodbye integrity of the Supreme Court if this is at all true. Now blue states are going to have laws like gun restrictions overturned, and they'll just shrug it off. "Mr. Alito has made his decision; now let him enforce it." And, prosecutors and DA's across the country have already said they will outright refuse to enforce any bans. Abortifacients will be as easy to obtain as any other drug. Nice going, assholes.

Also, big boost for Democrats heading into November this year and 2024. Expect to see this covered endlessly, and the ensuing "unintended" consequences and horror stories.

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

https://twitter.com/cami_mondeaux/status/1521296227291312133

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

This is extremely disgusting even for conservatives.



Page 30.

Literally "legal abortion proponents are racist eugenicists but we don't question either side's intentions."

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

https://twitter.com/steve_vladeck/status/1521305387923816449?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw...

This logic makes no sense. If the outcome is already known, then "the blow" already happened/is currently happening/will be happening.

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

https://twitter.com/steve_vladeck/status/1521305387923816449?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw...

This logic makes no sense. If the outcome is already known, then "the blow" already happened/is currently happening/will be happening.

If the end result is, instead, an opinion by Thomas that isn't quite so egregiously awful and transparently political, the right can use the contrast between Alito's naked partisan ****-take and Thomas' technically equivalent but far more normal-seeming opinion to paint it as liberals getting all bent out of shape over "business as usual". It won't help them with any pro-choice voters, but it will help them maintain the illusion for their followers that they're the "normal" part of the country.

No one will care how the decision is worded. That's not the issue here, it's the outcome.

Maybe you'll have a point if they do an about-face or take the middle ground and uphold the MS law but keep Roe and Casey intact.

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

Oh my god, stop with the stupid semantic arguments about human beings. A fetus is a human life in an extremely early stage of development. Only a fool would deny that. The issue is whether or not we want the government legislating away women's bodily autonomy over an unviable fetus.

We're well on the way to conservative legislation that requires police-state oversight of all female behavior during pregnancy, all in the name of making sure the fetus is preserved. If you care about individual rights and liberties (which we all know conservatives don't) then this is terrible news.

If that's the first argument, then the second argument is whether the best way to protect this right is by (A) Passing a Constitutional amendment or other federal law, or (B) Having five unelected elderly people in robes read a 250-year-old document in such a way so as to construe a nonexistent right and then hope that five other unelected elderly people in robes don't someday decide otherwise. I know which approach I prefer.

Hopefully this cause outweighs your desire to ban circumcision or religious child-rearing.

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

There's an awful lot of religious fundamentalists in this thread trying to impose their values on others. Yes, Congress should have passed a law legalising abortion. However, the issue should have remained settled judicially. Roe was good policy, and a lot of suffering will now be caused by millions of people losing their rights. Just as Roe was not a permanent victory, this won't be either and eventually, one way or another, abortion rights will be guaranteed again.

It is not the job of the courts to decide what is or what is not good policy.

I'm not trying to give an interpretation of the US Constitution, I'm giving my opinion that I support abortion being legal and accessible and so it's obviously a bad outcome from my view that this will not be the situation in many states.

Sadly while I agree with you, it is a huge stretch to say that abortion is guaranteed by any clause within the constitution.

It is long, LONG overdue that congress passed a law guaranteeing the right to an abortion in every single state so that we can finally settle this issue once and for all. Make it limited like in Europe so that the majority of people support it.

This is the number one thing that Democrats should make the centerpiece of their agenda for the next six months. Murkowski and Collins would absolutely go along with it, so you don't need to rely on Manchin or Sinema at all (and Sinema I presume would also go along with it). Use reconciliation this year to pass it and use the legislation itself to continuously make this decision and abortion in general the centerpiece of the 2022 election.

Democrats are largely doomed to a poor result, but if abortion is at the forefront of voters' minds that is infinitely better for Democrats than, say, inflation. Decent chance Dems keep the senate if abortion becomes the main issue at stake.

The rules don't allow for reconciliation on this. It's another "scrap the filibuster or nothing" type deal, and the answer is always nothing.

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

Per wikipedia

When the United States became independent, most states applied English common law to abortion. This meant it was not permitted after quickening, or the start of fetal movements, usually felt 15–20 weeks after conception.

Can't we just default to this + life of the mother and call it a day? I think we had it right and started overanalyzing.

A 20-week ban would be a completely acceptable compromise that the vast majority of Americans on both sides would support. Six weeks is bullsh!t, Alabama's zero-weeks law is bullsh!t, and legal third-trimester abortions would be bullsh!t but we don't see Democrats going for that.

In any case, as I said a few days ago, the median American voter is more moderate on abortion than the politicians are. A national 20-week abortion guarantee and ban would be very popular, but Congress would never pass it.

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

I for one, find it disgusting that it's even possible to "leak" a future SC decision in order to intimidate the court into doing exactly what they want (which is what this is, no doubt). The court's integrity is on the line, not because they might overrule Roe, but if they buckle to social/political pressure in response to this leak.

Has it been established that this was leaked by a pro-choicer, and what the motivations were? Or are you just assuming? It's very easy to see the argument that this was releasing by a supporter of ending Roe v. Wade to make sure those 5 stay in line, because if one of them flips now, everyone will know about it.

Do you really think with the amount of media and activism the left has in their favor that the conservative justices are going to be pressured to stay in place? Barrett and Kavanaugh have been notoriously flaky over the past 2 years, and complained about the court's "image".

If it was a pro-life person who leaked, why would they leak a victory for them potentially two months in advance? It makes much more sense to me that a pro-choicer would've leaked, as a panic mechanism to turn up the heat on the court (and the issue in general) to gain favorability for their side.

Harry just answered you: to keep them all in line. Now it is too late for last-minute compromises or changes, because anything different will be seen as "caving to public pressure."

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

No? I never said that?

I just think it’s nonsensical and unnecessary.

There’s plenty of ways to prevent pregnancy if you don’t want a child:

Condoms
Female condoms
Birth control pills
Morning after pills

Etc

All of which I 110% support.

If you’re going to ignore all those, and have unsafe sex anyway…That seems like a personal problem. It rewards being irresponsible. If a woman is raped, or her health is at risk, or the father of the child has abandoned the family/they’ve broken up and she doesn’t want to be a single mother, those are valid reasons for having an abortion. But as a form of birth control? No.

I tend to agree. But even regular birth control does fail occasionally, and lawmakers in Idaho are looking to ban IUDs and morning-after pills. If anything, we should be making those free, like the COVID vaccine, if we really want to lower the number of abortions.

But bans impact poor people the most. The people who can't afford childcare as the cost of living increases, and carrying the emotional baggage of having a child out there they are not able to care for is something I am simply unable to empathize with. And a lot, perhaps most, of these women who have abortions do decide to become mothers once they're on better footing.

Banning abortion will be like banning guns or street drugs. (I'm "pro-choice" on both abortion and gun ownership, for the most part.) And it's not 1973 anymore. Women are having abortions that are simply not reported, because it is easier to self-induce abortions, safely, with the help of abortifacients; drugs, which the government sucks at regulating as we've seen over the years.

Ultimately the debate is futile, because if the pro-life side is right, then abortion truly is murder and it must be outlawed. But a zygote is not a person and that is why I think this viewpoint lacks nuance. I think that banning abortion after the first trimester but guaranteeing access beforehand is the way to go, but that again is insufficient if abortion truly is murder. And a lot of pro-life people are going to see what pre-Roe America looked like, and the practical consequences of imposing strict bans and prosecuting either women or abortion providers.

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

No? I never said that?

I just think it’s nonsensical and unnecessary.

There’s plenty of ways to prevent pregnancy if you don’t want a child:

Condoms
Female condoms
Birth control pills
Morning after pills

Etc

All of which I 110% support.

If you’re going to ignore all those, and have unsafe sex anyway…That seems like a personal problem. It rewards being irresponsible. If a woman is raped, or her health is at risk, or the father of the child has abandoned the family/they’ve broken up and she doesn’t want to be a single mother, those are valid reasons for having an abortion. But as a form of birth control? No.

I tend to agree. But even regular birth control does fail occasionally, and lawmakers in Idaho are looking to ban IUDs and morning-after pills. If anything, we should be making those free, like the COVID vaccine, if we really want to lower the number of abortions.

But bans impact poor people the most. The people who can't afford childcare as the cost of living increases, and carrying the emotional baggage of having a child out there they are not able to care for is something I am simply unable to empathize with. And a lot, perhaps most, of these women who have abortions do decide to become mothers once they're on better footing.

Banning abortion will be like banning guns or street drugs. (I'm "pro-choice" on both abortion and gun ownership, for the most part.) And it's not 1973 anymore. Women are having abortions that are simply not reported, because it is easier to self-induce abortions, safely, with the help of abortifacients; drugs, which the government sucks at regulating as we've seen over the years.

Ultimately the debate is futile, because if the pro-life side is right, then abortion truly is murder and it must be outlawed. But a zygote is not a person and that is why I think this viewpoint lacks nuance. I think that banning abortion after the first trimester but guaranteeing access beforehand is the way to go, but that again is insufficient if abortion truly is murder. And a lot of pro-life people are going to see what pre-Roe America looked like, and the practical consequences of imposing strict bans and prosecuting either women or abortion providers.

I think banning IUDs and Morning after pills is very, very wrong and is immoral. I think things such as the morning after pill should be readily available and free in all colleges, high schools, low income areas and such - places where accidental pregnancy happens frequently. I think that birth control shouldn’t cost a woman even a penny. And I think also that there should be greater education at the high school level and above about the various ways to have safe sex, told from a compassionate and tactful perspective - that it can be just as enjoyable as unsafe sex

It’s my feeling that with birth control pills and greater education, abortion would be utterly redundant and thus would probably not be at all necessary unless the woman was raped, the pregnancy was risky, or the child would be born with birth defects or is dead in the womb, etc.

I agree with everything you said, but on a sightly unrelated note, I've heard this to be BS. But I'm a 27-year-old virgin so what would I know?

EDIT: Actually I assume you're not referring to condoms here

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

McConnell says national abortion ban ‘possible’

https://thehill.com/news/senate/3480725-mcconnell-says-national-abortion-ban-possible/

Yeah, not happening. But I will say this leaked opinion has raised my opinion of the filibuster slightly.

If the federal government ever goes to war with blue states on the abortion issue, they will lose. It will go the same way as marijuana. National bans will not be enforced even if Republicans have 60 anti-choice votes in the Senate.

McConnell can rot in hell.

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

Goodbye Roe! This should have happened decades ago!

Why? Are you a female? Do you want the government telling you how to manage your body? Truly?

Or, if you are not a female, how come you think you have a right to tell women how to manage their bodies? Would you like the government to tell you how to manage yours? Truly?

Abortion is legalized murder. Why are you pro-murder?

Murder is based sometimes. Without it, we'd still have John Lennon.

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

I'm quoting the Reason article I posted once again, for how bans will be circumvented, and have been since the Texas law was upheld:

When Texas banned abortion after fetal cardiac activity can be detected (which typically happens about six weeks into a pregnancy), the number of abortions performed by clinics in that state fell by half. But many women traveled to clinics in other states or used pills to perform self-induced abortions. The upshot, judging from studies of both workarounds, was that the net reduction in abortions obtained by Texas women was roughly one-fifth the apparent decrease.

That experience may be misleading as an indicator of what will happen even in Texas after the Supreme Court overturns Roe. Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, and Oklahoma—all of which saw influxes of Texas women seeking abortions—are likely to ban the procedure once they are free to do so. But abortion is expected to remain legal in three other nearby states: Colorado, Kansas, and New Mexico. Women who live far away from such options—in southeast Texas and Louisiana, for example—will face the biggest obstacles.

The next route here is abortion pills via mail, which states like Texas are already trying to control, but we already know how successful the government is at regulating drugs.

Aid Access, which enables women to obtain abortion pills from abroad based on prescriptions written by a doctor in Austria, saw a huge increase in requests from Texas after that state's ban took effect. And Aid Access is by no means the only source of abortion pills, which can be obtained through various websites, purchased over the counter in Mexico, or received in states that allow delivery by mail after an online or phone consultation. Organizations such as Hey Jane and Abortion on Demand facilitate that last option.

And even Reason concedes that the women impacted most will be those who are low-income. Considering the workarounds, and the fact that abortion has already long been inaccessible in large swaths of the country, there may not be as much of a reduction in abortions as the supporters of the decision are hoping for or the opponents are expecting.

Which means that abortion access will be less equitable, although big corporations, as we've already seen, will be offering transportation for women who have to travel a certain number of miles. And while I don't like their reasoning per se (maternity costs > abortion costs), it's evident that there will be workarounds in place and an underground network, especially in places where abortion has been practically inaccessible for some time. No amount of government intrusion is going to end that.

This is a terrible decision but what the pro-choice movement needs to do now is help women navigate these tall barriers.

Those of you who are (once again) using this to re-litigate the 2016 primary: know that you are doing no favors. You are helping no one.

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

To keep babies safe, we should adopt other pro-life policies, such as stricter gun controls measures.

Right guys?

Or better yet, because many gun control policies are unlikely to survive this Court, use the Second Amendment to protect abortion rights. I don't think anyone's thought of that one yet!

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

As most Europeans, I'm for < 3 Month abortions.

However, I do think people are overreacting (talking about the "I need to take a day off, and the "shaking rn" crowd). All this says is that abortion isn't constitutionally protected. Most states will continue to allow it.

lol at the bolded

Don't quite understand what you mean?

You think abortion will be fully outlawed in 25+ states?

Depends. If the GOP regains their trifectas in several states, and/or defeats the sitting AG in Wisconsin, there will be more restrictions for sure.

But I've given up on making predictions. What I'm confident about is that today is not the final word on abortion, we will be hearing about it through November and beyond, Biden is in the process of preparing executive orders to do what he can do in his power, and in August there is a ballot initiative to bar abortion protections from the Constitution (it wouldn't ban abortion, but it would return the issue to the legislature and if the GOP regains the trifecta in November, banning abortion will be one of their first priorities).

It will be interesting to see where that referendum in Kansas goes. But today's news will absolutely boost turnout from the pro-choice side there and neither result would surprise me.

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

Add Dick's Sporting Goods to the list of companies offering compensation for abortion travel:
https://twitter.com/DICKS/status/1540399862688223234?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctw...
As BRTD said, people who work for JPMorgan Chase aren't exactly the type of people who would find themselves unable to travel due to financial means, but this probably makes a bigger impact.

And I will reiterate that I loathe "woke capitalism" and the real motives behind those programs, but as one who believes that legal and accessible abortion is preferable to the alternative, I'll take the W.

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

Add Dick's Sporting Goods to the list of companies offering compensation for abortion travel:
https://twitter.com/DICKS/status/1540399862688223234?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctw...
As BRTD said, people who work for JPMorgan Chase aren't exactly the type of people who would find themselves unable to travel due to financial means, but this probably makes a bigger impact.

And I will reiterate that I loathe "woke capitalism" and the real motives behind those programs, but as one who believes that legal and accessible abortion is preferable to the alternative, I'll take the W.

Should also offer a minimum of 12 months of paid maternal leave, now that would be real "pro-Choice" right there.

No objection from me.

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

Anonymous has made its opinion known:
https://twitter.com/YourAnonNews/status/1540393064287567877
We took on the Church of Scientology, we occupied Wall Street, we hacked Russian websites, and given that Anonymous typically puts its money where its mouth is beyond Twitter virtue signaling, it will be interesting to see which direction we take for the underground abortion networks.

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

AG Garland: States can't ban FDA-approved abortion pills on safety grounds

I hope this holds true.

This will be litigated and go before the Supreme Court. 

Pro-choice advocates should really just lay low for a few years and focus on codifying abortion rights into as many States' laws as possible.  Going the litigious route just gives Alito & Co. the opportunity to create all sorts of anti-choice precedents that will take decades to overturn.

"The DOJ has no role to play in determining what the country's abortion laws will be" said the Supreme Court today.

Democratic presidents will eventually start ignoring this court as illegitimate. Abortion pills will be legal in most states and even if a state bans them, women will still get them the same way I get my pot.

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

Pretty significant turnout at the protest I attended in Phoenix today - probably in the range of 2.5-5k? Not breaking any records obviously, but great numbers for such short notice.

Overall it was peaceful. There were a few counter demonstrators in blue MAGA hats carrying around crucifixes. Standard crazy person stuff.

The cops did start shooting off tear gas at us by the end of the night. A small group of demonstrators got near the entrance to the Capitol (no signs of ]or violence I might add!). Cops started firing tear gas without warning when that happened. They just can't help themselves!

Certainly made headlines so good on that.

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

https://twitter.com/RobOHanrahan/status/1540631005530308608?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoog...

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

How come you ignored my comment about how American Christians are often willing to ally with unbelievers and deliberately avoid calling out their anti-Christ beliefs and behavior for political gain?

Because there's nothing he wouldn't accept to achieve theocracy. He doesn't care if we accept Christianity in our hearts because his aspiration is a world where we are made to follow its rules anyway or burn (both in real life and imaginary lava jail).

Unfortunately, I see relations between Christians and non-Christians becoming far worse and more violent as a result of this philosophy and opportunists using its believers. Americans are a people who like to decide our fate, and the Evangelicals follow a strategy of political entrenchment rather than democratic persuasion. At least some seem to think it will be fine because they can use the pretense of legitimacy to shoot everyone who protests demanding to vote for their government.

This is depressing but true. Anyone who's Christian is going to be, by default, assumed to support this decision, regardless of where their church actually stands. But there's not going to be any nuanced discussion of abortion in the coming years. We will hear the secular view and the religious fundamentalist view but not much else. Because $$$$

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1540852015693037568
This is Rep. Mary Miller (IL-15).  The full quote, which is quite clear, is: "President Trump, on behalf of all the MAGA patriots in America, I want to thank you for the historic victory for white life in the Supreme Court yesterday."

...Legitimately horrifying.

Miller’s congressional office didn’t immediately return The Daily Beast’s request for comment on Saturday evening. The Trump rally comes as Miller, who already received Trump’s endorsement, looks for a turnout boast ahead of a Tuesday primary as she faces off against Rep. Rodney Davis (R-IL)

https://www.thedailybeast.com/maga-rep-mary-miller-thanks-trump-for-giving-white-life-a-win

I mean, they're just gonna start saying it out loud now? I guess that was inevitable at some point but people really need to wake up here.

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

As if they don't seemingly realize it's disproportionately going to be a bunch of unwanted non-white babies popping out going forward

This is one of the most frequent debates that /pol/ has. The camps seems to be divided into "This is good because women are bad" to "Abortion is good because it means fewer black babies" to "Abortion is bad because white women still get abortions too." If anything, you can learn more about how people feel from a 4chan post because it's totally anonymous there, and it may not quite have the traffic of Twitter (in part because since it was sold you need to buy an account to bypass reCAPTCHA - thanks for that, moot) but there's not a really an active left segment on 4chan today at this point. Dirtbag or otherwise.

I really need to just resist the urge to keep going back to "check on things."