SCOTUS overturns Roe megathread (pg 53 - confirmed)

[afleitch]

Shame. Shame. Shame.

And the biggest shame towards those who hold 'pro-life' positions for expediency or just to feel good about themselves, who never once thought of the consequences of holding them, and who let the most egregious positions be taken, and state laws passed by pro-life advocates.

[afleitch]

I fully expect most Republican states to pass blanket bans within the next month after the decision goes live. They’ll also likely try fugitive abortion acts and basically bury themselves in the long run.

Allot of them already have bans on the books that will automatically go into effect.

Also, for extra fun, because no one thought it would actually happen, they tend to be poorly thought out and broadly written.

And if deaths through school shootings don't change their position on access to guns, people dying as a result of abortion restrictions, prohibitions and trying to get round them won't change their position much either. They'll probably just dig in.

[afleitch]

Biden states;

Banned - Michigan, Arizona, Georgia.
Restricted - Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Virginia.
Not protected - New Hampshire, New Mexico

Rest are protected by law

Trump states;

Protected by law - Montana
Restricted - Indiana, West Virginia, Florida, Nebraska, Kansas

Rest are banned.

Rest are banned

[afleitch]

In related news Oklahoma signed into law it's 6 week ban, with 'bounty hunter' provisions.

[afleitch]

Well I never thought I'd be 'radicalised' into a new position on abortion.

I always maintained that it was primarily a medical/healthcare issue, in line with UK thinking, our 1968 Act etc rather than a rights and an access to rights issue. But I am seeing it differently now, particularly in a US context. I have to reappraise my position domestically to ensure that there is no attempt at lobbying or backsliding at home.

It was an expected decision, but a deeply disturbing one. It's not the end; the tentacles of Big Pro-Life and the Republican Fertility Cult will reach into the bedroom and the pharmacy and the doctors office soon enough. I wish I could help. I wish I could do something.

[afleitch]

The progressive and moderate wings of the Democratic Party on Atlas are at full-on civil war and I am sitting here laughing my ass off over it.

That says more about you than it does about them.

[afleitch]

The phrase I would employ is 'become ungovernable'

That's the best interim solution; don't overshare anymore.
Don't snitch. Don't tell. Ditch info sharing pregnancy or period tracking apps. Maintain and establish a not at all secret system of support for those seeking terminations at home, across state lines or abroad. Go 'out of town'. No questions asked. Do everything possible to drain prohibitive states of labour and skills.

[afleitch]

Ghoul

https://mobile.twitter.com/briantylercohen/status/1541102529483640832

[afleitch]

wElL AcTuAlLy gAs pRiCeS ArE MoRe iMpOrTaNt tHaN YoUr rIgHtS is a hell of a pickup line.

The issue of inflation is more important than the issue of abortion

I mean, if you're forced to carry a pregnancy you don't want, the cost of raising a child for eighteen years really does put short term inflation concerns into perspective don't you think?

[afleitch]

The Pro-Life movement and it's legislative victories is a broadly non secular and Christian driven movement. So their views on abortion, carried through into law, overlaps with their generally restrictive (to put it mildly) views on women and the family.

To put less mildly and to paraphrase a tweet I can't find; the Pro-Life movement carries with it an undercurrent of 'slut shaming.'

That individual women will suffer, or with the methotrexate example, will be burdened by restrictions based on biological sex that a man would not, is of no consequence to the Pro-Life movement.

As horrendous as Gunn's beliefs are, I respect them more than the idea that abortion should be illegal, but with an exception for rape. If you honestly believe a fetus is a person from the moment of fertilization, then you can't allow abortion in any circumstances of that fertilization.

Anyone who thinks abortion should be generally illegal but is OK with a rape exception isn't basing their opposition to legal abortion on the idea that a fetus is a person, but on something like "actions have consequences" or "personal responsibility" or "punish women for having sex," etc., which are ultimately worse in my eyes than "even a zygote is a person."

I sort of agree. If you're genuinely Pro-'fetus' you really shouldn't make exceptions for rape, incest, severe genetic abnormalities that lead to immediate death upon separation from the womb and depending on how you evaluate age when providing care, sometimes the life of the mother.

Making those exceptions a priori, already concedes that the interests of the mother are placed higher, before you get down to the rest of the tick box exercise.

People should be pressed on this. As I've said before, people who wrap themselves in the Pro-Life identity when pushed, aren't really. Or at least hold views more in line with say, the UK status quo. But their silence or passive grandstanding had empowered the worst elements of pernicious conservatism.

On that note, a shout out to the spectacular failure of the Moderate Hero 'consistent life ethic' folk who have in handing the ball over to the conservatives have won f-ck all other than an abortion ban.

As I mentioned elsewhere

'the Church exerts almost negligible influence on public policy or policy within the political pro-life movement

It has little influence on any matter of public policy in either party on welfare, death penalty, human trafficking, the gays etc where it holds equally articulated convictions.

Abortion is it's only 'win', even supplying much of the activist base but at the cost of conceding pretty much everything else. For all it's faults at least the Church understands that you can't have an absolutist policy, and support the people most affected by it without a social change that the United States will not commit to.

Part of the reason I posted this is because it's an abject failure of the entire movement and everyone in it, in choosing to legislatively push and electorally dogwhistle almost exclusively for one sole part of the movement or 'consistent life ethic' or however it's framed for fifty years, that the realities of post Roe today, won't be the same realities post Roe say, two or three decades ago. It will be an absolute hellscape in most red states and potentially Roe on steroids in blue states.'

[/rant]

[afleitch]

Where's our evangelical posters to defend this Ohio garbage? Oh wait. They must be protesting in support of universal healthcare and free school lunch the pro-lifers they are.

I'd say that what someone did to the girl is awful and indefensible.  With that said, taking an innocent life will not right the wrong of what was done.  That baby didn't do anything wrong; how they were conceived was not their fault.  Killing him or her would be like killing an innocent bystander to a crime.

So you support a child being forced to bear a child.

I think that's the greater evil.

[afleitch]

Where's our evangelical posters to defend this Ohio garbage? Oh wait. They must be protesting in support of universal healthcare and free school lunch the pro-lifers they are.

I'd say that what someone did to the girl is awful and indefensible.  With that said, taking an innocent life will not right the wrong of what was done.  That baby didn't do anything wrong; how they were conceived was not their fault.  Killing him or her would be like killing an innocent bystander to a crime.

So you support a child being forced to bear a child.

I think that's the greater evil.

The difference is that you don't believe that abortion is literally murder.  If you do believe that it's literally murder (like I do), then actively killing someone is the far worse action.

No. I think having a personal morality, or system of ethics that personifies a zygote as a child, for the sake of appeasing a god, to protect your own selfish desire for something good to happen to you after death, when someone living and breathing needs protection. I can't hold any respect for that.

[afleitch]

Truly amazing to watch all the fundies twist themselves into knots trying to explain how conception and life are completely connected, and that ending a pregnancy is murder.

After all, mass studies of hormonal levels and chemicals in women of child-bearing age shows that 40% of conceptions end in miscarriage, and the vast, vast majority of those happen prior to 8 weeks - before a woman even knows she's pregnant. "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you" - and yet God snuffed out that life before any living being or doctor was aware of your existence. No "tests, trials or tribulations" to be had or learned from in this case.

If you believe life begins at conception, then you must also reconcile the scientific reality that God murders fully over one-third of the human race before anybody is even aware of their existence for reasons unknown (Blood sacrifice? Maybe that's how he remains omnipotent! #Adrenochrome #Groomer). Apparently only God gets to slaughter babies!

If 'life and death and killing and saving' and all other constructed ethics around that are transported into the womb as part of some theological or policy battle, then yes, you can essentially argue that the womb is a place of danger and death and loss as much as it is a cradle of life. And you must have a f-cked up view of women if that's what you debase their bodies to even if it's unintentional.

[afleitch]

Your attempt to frame anti-immigration views as the true socially progressive answer would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic. Nobody is buying it.

Answer this directly - how do American blacks and gays directly benefit from importing more foreigners?

The gain more from immigration than a nation adopting right wing nativism. Because that ideology never comes alone.

[afleitch]

The gain more from immigration than a nation adopting right wing nativism. Because that ideology never comes alone.

So you admit they don't gain from importing foreigners. Thanks for clarifying.

I said exactly the opposite.

Please stop derailing this thread.

[afleitch]

https://twitter.com/musclesnnursing/status/1548740495089827840

Big Pro Life is a sociopathy.

[afleitch]

The first good morning of news to wake up to since the repeal.

[afleitch]

This is what happens when healthcare is moralised in the public sphere for political gain. Graphs and trends and questions and ads and laws.

[afleitch]

https://mobile.twitter.com/JessicaValenti/status/1592640415374901249

Is it a fertility cult?

https://mobile.twitter.com/JessicaValenti/status/1592641416169422848

Or a death cult?