Russia-Ukraine war and related tensions Megathread

[Cashew]

That argument would have had more credibility outside the west if it was actually talked about rather than swept under the rug with "whataboutery" being one of the things keeping it in the public conciousness.

In this thread, the issue has been raised and the differences pointed out repeatedly by multiple people. The ones bringing it up both in this thread and in other places are doing it to try and score cheap political points against the West in general and the U.S. in particular while dodging answering any of the questions posed by their tepid to nonexistent support of Ukraine. They’re not interested in an honest examination of the issue, but in using “what about Iraq/Afghanistan” as a deflection from their morally bankrupt stance.

I am supre that you could question the motives of many brining that up, and I am well aware that every situtation is different, that doesn't change that for some people there is never a right time to bring this up.

More importantly though, assuming this somehow ends in Putin facing a war crimes tribunal it will not be an outright victory of international law like many in the west hope for, but also as the stronger lawless West forcing a weaker lawless Russia to break, aka might makes right. By exempting itself from it's own self professed principles and judgement manded down upon other is inevitably tainted as a victor's justice regardless of how well deserved the consequences were, incentivizing efforts across the global south to reduce western leverage over their economies.

The consistent repetition of this issue being brought up particularly in this thread but also in broader media in relation to Ukraine in order to shield Russia from criticism and undermine support for Ukraine certainly makes one wonder about the motives of those involved! Oh, yes, the Global South or as it’s been also referred to, the Developing World. Here, I already examined both the deflection and the supposed unity in the GS/DW and guess what it’s mostly a Russian propaganda campaign with direct support from pro-Russian governments. Which doesn’t exactly lend credibility to those of you who keep trying to forge a false equivalence between the two (or is it three? Tankies have somehow contorted themselves into being on the side of the goddamned Taliban in opposing intervention in Afghanistan) situations. In addition to the dubious rationales used in repeatedly raising the issue, in this thread the issue has repeatedly been discussed. Just because you don’t like the conclusions doesn’t mean it wasn’t discussed seriously. But bringing Iraq up in order to give cover to Russia is…despicable, I would say.

Oh yes did you notice that the GS/DW isn’t remotely on the same page on this? See the link above.

The lawless West? Based on what? There have been two basic principles in the system of international law set up after WWII: don’t annex other countries by force and don’t commit genocide. The latter hasn’t always been adhered to but the former was about the only law actually adhered to…well, except for Russia. They’re the ones engaging in might makes right. Drawing a moral equivalence between Russia and the West…are you fucking serious?! What bullshit is this? Goddamn, do you tankies keep spawning from a basement somewhere? I - and others - have already had this discussion with the Brazilian and New Jerseyite fascists. Your position of equivalence sucked then and sucks now, except you suck even harder because the evidence keeps pouring in of how utterly much you suck. Have you noticed the emerging genocidal actions of Russia? Remember this? Or this? Or all the other atrocities posted in this thread? Read some human rights reports before trying to draw false equivalences.

1. You are a hideous liar, I never said they were equivalent, I have never endorsed the soviet invasions of 1956, 1968, or supported this war and you know that.

2. The reality is that there would be a lot less tankies and whataboutery today if the bad guys didn't walk away like nothing happened, a fully self inflicted wound. If Putin is defeated it would be because of a power imbalance between the west and Russia, a power inbalance large enough to ensure that Anerican politicians and members of the military are exempt from any serious international accountability for war crimes. It's not just the US, the UK continues to defy international law in the chagos islands while wailing about the south China sea. Yes the west is lawless, not to the extent of wanting to annex a country but shooting the messenger in the past is precisely why they continue to spring up at such inoportune moment like now.

1. No, actually, I knew nothing of your other stances and was responding only to what you posted, which indeed said both the West and Russia were operating under might makes right principles. You drew the equivalency.

2. Ok, you’re calling the U.S. “bad guys”, using the very same Manichean language that is being decried by all of the same people that insist on drawing out “both sides” comparisons to oppose the idea that there is a moral distinction between Russia in Ukraine and America in Iraq. That seems a bit hypocritical. There would be no less tankies and whataboutery in any event because as Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and their response to it have indicated they are intellectually and morally bankrupt raving anti-Western and especially anti-American loons. Or did you not notice how the tankies’ favorite countries all are on Russia’s side?

2b. If you cannot see any difference between how the West acted in Iraq and Russia is acting in Ukraine, then you’re a tankie or Trumpist nut. If you do see a difference, then why are you drawing an equivalence between the two cases? I have consistently noticed this attitude on the tankie left that paints the U.S.’ actions in Iraq with a broad brush that declares them to be on the same level as, say, the Chinese in Xinjiang, as an article of near-religious faith. Oh wait, the tankie left doesn’t think the Chinese are doing anything wrong. Well, pick another genocide from the list, I suppose. But your words indicate that the only international accountability you would consider to be “serious” would be automatic guilty verdicts before a kangaroo court. I’m sure the U.N. Human Rights Council could fill that role. Because an actual free and fair court trial would be a lot less clear-cut than you think. Actual war crimes should be prosecuted, but not by biased courts. And perhaps you could throw in all the other war criminals out there in the world, but that would include people tankies love so I guess you really just want Americans on trial. I mentioned the Chagos Islands myself as an injustice in another thread so no gotcha there.

Why look there you’re already accomplishing your goal of deflecting attention from what the Russians are doing in Ukraine in this thread! Aren’t you proud?

Aren't you proud of putting words in my mouth? Aren't you proud that you know nothing of my stances yet somehow continue to insinuate about my motives?

Let me try to explain it in a way not even you can distort. The invasion of Iraq was the original sin that destroyed the trust of many in the western media, and that none of the perpetrators has suffered even so much as becoming social pariahs dealt a blow to the political establishment in general, leading many in other directions in search for truth, some of which became tankies. While sending troops to their death on a lie and giving Fallujah absurd numbers of birth defects is not as bad as a war of conquest the lack of a reckoning means the credilility of many calling out Russia have a question mark above their head. This does not mean that Russia should not be criticized, but seeing as though there has not been a reckoning I dont think its unreasonable that countries without that hanging over their head like France should be focused on as more credible with bloodthirsty pro Iraq war pundits in the United States deplatformed regardless of being right on this issue.

[NOVA Green]

Apologies if this has already been discussed previously, but it looks like Russia might well be suspended from the UN Human Rights Council in the very near future:

British United Nations Ambassador Barbara Woodward voiced support Monday for the United States’ call to suspend Russia from the U.N. Human Rights Council after images emerged appearing to show Russian atrocities against civilians in Bucha.

Suspending Russia from the Human Rights Council would require the support of at least two-thirds of the U.N. General Assembly’s 193 members. Woodward said she expected to accomplish that, noting 141 nations had voted to condemn the invasion.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/04/04/russia-ukraine-war-news-putin-live-updates/#link-7S7W2GOGZJASTLX2MEX7IOBFIQ

Do we know if the process to remove them from the Security Council (if there is one) is similar to this?

Def not...

Despite the outrage, there is currently no mechanism to remove a permanent member of the security council.

In order to remove a permanent member, they must first be removed from the larger UN General Assembly.

The Security Council would need to make the recommendation to the General Assembly to vote a country out.

As Russia is a permanent member of the Security Council, this will not happen.

Sure we can go into the technicalities if Russia should be a member of the UN Security Council, considering they are Russian and not USSR.

Still, we are starting to League of Nations and "War to End All War" territory.

Reality is that even certain types of war crimes might not even cross "red lines" with what we are seeing now.

[NOVA Green]

FWIW... US tested their own hypersonic missile a couple weeks back.

The US successfully tested a hypersonic missile in mid-March but kept it quiet for two weeks to avoid escalating tensions with Russia as US President Joe Biden was about to travel to Europe, according to a defense official familiar with the matter.

The Hypersonic Air-breathing Weapon Concept (HAWC) was launched from a B-52 bomber off the west coast, the official said, in the first successful test of the Lockheed Martin version of the system.

https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-04-04-22/h_e45fa2ee0cf6956ae49240ef71c53c5d

[WMS]

1. No, actually, I knew nothing of your other stances and was responding only to what you posted, which indeed said both the West and Russia were operating under might makes right principles. You drew the equivalency.

2. Ok, you’re calling the U.S. “bad guys”, using the very same Manichean language that is being decried by all of the same people that insist on drawing out “both sides” comparisons to oppose the idea that there is a moral distinction between Russia in Ukraine and America in Iraq. That seems a bit hypocritical. There would be no less tankies and whataboutery in any event because as Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and their response to it have indicated they are intellectually and morally bankrupt raving anti-Western and especially anti-American loons. Or did you not notice how the tankies’ favorite countries all are on Russia’s side?

2b. If you cannot see any difference between how the West acted in Iraq and Russia is acting in Ukraine, then you’re a tankie or Trumpist nut. If you do see a difference, then why are you drawing an equivalence between the two cases? I have consistently noticed this attitude on the tankie left that paints the U.S.’ actions in Iraq with a broad brush that declares them to be on the same level as, say, the Chinese in Xinjiang, as an article of near-religious faith. Oh wait, the tankie left doesn’t think the Chinese are doing anything wrong. Well, pick another genocide from the list, I suppose. But your words indicate that the only international accountability you would consider to be “serious” would be automatic guilty verdicts before a kangaroo court. I’m sure the U.N. Human Rights Council could fill that role. Because an actual free and fair court trial would be a lot less clear-cut than you think. Actual war crimes should be prosecuted, but not by biased courts. And perhaps you could throw in all the other war criminals out there in the world, but that would include people tankies love so I guess you really just want Americans on trial. I mentioned the Chagos Islands myself as an injustice in another thread so no gotcha there.

Why look there you’re already accomplishing your goal of deflecting attention from what the Russians are doing in Ukraine in this thread! Aren’t you proud?

Aren't you proud of putting words in my mouth? Aren't you proud that you know nothing of my stances yet somehow continue to insinuate about my motives?

Let me try to explain it in a way not even you can distort. The invasion of Iraq was the original sin that destroyed the trust of many in the western media, and that none of the perpetrators has suffered even so much as becoming social pariahs dealt a blow to the political establishment in general, leading many in other directions in search for truth, some of which became tankies. While sending troops to their death on a lie and giving Fallujah absurd numbers of birth defects is not as bad as a war of conquest the lack of a reckoning means the credilility of many calling out Russia have a question mark above their head. This does not mean that Russia should not be criticized, but seeing as though there has not been a reckoning I dont think its unreasonable that countries without that hanging over their head like France should be focused on as more credible with bloodthirsty pro Iraq war pundits in the United States deplatformed regardless of being right on this issue.

I’m going off what you said in this thread. Your own words here are what’s being used to determine your motives. So far you keep confirming them.

No it wasn’t. It’s a convenient one for anti-Westerners to use, but in case you’ve missed it the same countries opposing the West now opposed the West back during the Kosovo intervention, using the same rationales. It wAs EvEn An IlLeGaL wAr BeCaUsE rUsSiA aNd ChInA dIdN’t ApPrOvE oF iT oN tHe SeCuRiTy CoUnCiL jUsT lIkE iRaQ!!!!1!! NATO had to step in and handle it on their own.

The “original sin”? Seriously, what makes Iraq uniquely bad? I think you’re suffering from too narrow a perspective if you think there was anything uniquely bad about Iraq. Both over the years and concurrently around the world there have been plenty of other wars similar to Iraq in whole or in part. Sorry pal Rumsfeld is dead now so you can’t punish him, and he was the one who fucked up the most. As for the others, some probably do deserve punishment but probably not what you have in mind. You are being vague about “the perpetrators’” numbers and names and what you want done to them so I can’t say more about that without details.

About narrow perspectives: tankies were around well before the “original sin”. They were there saying the same things before the Iraq War, flying to Baghdad to show opposition to the U.S. and get placed on bridges and the like. They were there saying the same things during the Gulf War - one of them was a left-wing high school teacher of mine who declared her support for Saddam Hussein (and then left the school, I think). They opposed Panama, and Libya, and Grenada, and they’ve been around since at least 1956!. And they’ve always been horrible people, as that link will elucidate.

And then your logic goes haywire. Because you’re drawing an equivalence again by saying that somehow everyone who didn’t oppose the Iraq intervention has no standing to criticize Russia? Because somehow everyone who did so was “bloodthirsty”? You are aware Saddam Hussein’s regime was guilty of every war crime there is, including at least two genocides, except using nukes, and that only because the Israelis bombed his research facility…which the French were helping with. But those aren’t “original sins” that are unforgivable, so only America is too “bloodthirsty” to criticize Russia.

Ah, yes, the France of Jacque Chirac, a sterling example to follow for certain and in regards to Iraq well Wikipedia says: “Along with Vladimir Putin (whom he called "a personal friend"),[56] Hu Jintao, and Gerhard Schröder, Chirac emerged as a leading voice against George W. Bush and Tony Blair in 2003…” Chirac, Putin, Hu, and Schroder. You sure you want to claim moral superiority for France? Oh wait there’s more: “On 19 January 2006, Chirac said that France was prepared to launch a nuclear strike against any country that sponsors a terrorist attack against French interests. He said his country's nuclear arsenal had been reconfigured to include the ability to make a tactical strike in retaliation for terrorism.[58]” That’s a more extreme stance than the U.S. ever took. Then there’s the long, sordid history of French intervention in Africa, nuclear testing in Oceania…but I suppose those don’t count as “original sins” that are unforgivable so France is good and America is bad, got it.

So, deplatforming for any American who didn’t hold your opinion on Iraq, to not be allowed to criticize Russia? But French are ok, because they have no “original sins”? Well then might as well let Francois Fillon have a platform, it’s not like he had any suspicious ties to Russia!

Despite your protestations, you’re absolutely drawing an equivalence between the Iraq and Ukraine situations. No one who supported the Iraq intervention regardless of their reasons for doing so is to be allowed a platform to criticize Russia! Because they are “bloodthirsty” and tainted with “original sin”! What the fuck is this logic? How the hell does this make sense?

The two situations are not the fucking same!

[Cashew]

To make some unfounded speculation, does anybody else think part of the reason for the war crimes is to provoke Ukrainian war crimes and scare Russian soldiers away from surrendering, along with making as many officers as possible complicit thereby tying them further to Putin? Or is the Russian army really that bad?

[😥]

https://twitter.com/ukrainesinger/status/1511198612507791361?t=vKqRN1YZ7WQzskwSe...

]I just wanted you to know this story. And if the events that are unfolding in Ukraine are not genocide, then I do not know what is

[OSR stands with Israel]

Putin Needs to be thrown in this prison as punishment for his horrible crimes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Dolphin_Prison

along with all his generals as well for committing these war crimes.

[Alben Barkley]

To make some unfounded speculation, does anybody else think part of the reason for the war crimes is to provoke Ukrainian war crimes and scare Russian soldiers away from surrendering, along with making as many officers as possible complicit thereby tying them further to Putin? Or is the Russian army really that bad?

To make some unfounded speculation, does anybody else think part of the reason for the war crimes is to provoke Polish war crimes and scare German soldiers away from surrendering, along with making as many officers as possible complicit thereby tying them further to Hitler? Or is the German army really that bad?

[Cashew]

1. No, actually, I knew nothing of your other stances and was responding only to what you posted, which indeed said both the West and Russia were operating under might makes right principles. You drew the equivalency.

2. Ok, you’re calling the U.S. “bad guys”, using the very same Manichean language that is being decried by all of the same people that insist on drawing out “both sides” comparisons to oppose the idea that there is a moral distinction between Russia in Ukraine and America in Iraq. That seems a bit hypocritical. There would be no less tankies and whataboutery in any event because as Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and their response to it have indicated they are intellectually and morally bankrupt raving anti-Western and especially anti-American loons. Or did you not notice how the tankies’ favorite countries all are on Russia’s side?

2b. If you cannot see any difference between how the West acted in Iraq and Russia is acting in Ukraine, then you’re a tankie or Trumpist nut. If you do see a difference, then why are you drawing an equivalence between the two cases? I have consistently noticed this attitude on the tankie left that paints the U.S.’ actions in Iraq with a broad brush that declares them to be on the same level as, say, the Chinese in Xinjiang, as an article of near-religious faith. Oh wait, the tankie left doesn’t think the Chinese are doing anything wrong. Well, pick another genocide from the list, I suppose. But your words indicate that the only international accountability you would consider to be “serious” would be automatic guilty verdicts before a kangaroo court. I’m sure the U.N. Human Rights Council could fill that role. Because an actual free and fair court trial would be a lot less clear-cut than you think. Actual war crimes should be prosecuted, but not by biased courts. And perhaps you could throw in all the other war criminals out there in the world, but that would include people tankies love so I guess you really just want Americans on trial. I mentioned the Chagos Islands myself as an injustice in another thread so no gotcha there.

Why look there you’re already accomplishing your goal of deflecting attention from what the Russians are doing in Ukraine in this thread! Aren’t you proud?

Aren't you proud of putting words in my mouth? Aren't you proud that you know nothing of my stances yet somehow continue to insinuate about my motives?

Let me try to explain it in a way not even you can distort. The invasion of Iraq was the original sin that destroyed the trust of many in the western media, and that none of the perpetrators has suffered even so much as becoming social pariahs dealt a blow to the political establishment in general, leading many in other directions in search for truth, some of which became tankies. While sending troops to their death on a lie and giving Fallujah absurd numbers of birth defects is not as bad as a war of conquest the lack of a reckoning means the credilility of many calling out Russia have a question mark above their head. This does not mean that Russia should not be criticized, but seeing as though there has not been a reckoning I dont think its unreasonable that countries without that hanging over their head like France should be focused on as more credible with bloodthirsty pro Iraq war pundits in the United States deplatformed regardless of being right on this issue.

I’m going off what you said in this thread. Your own words here are what’s being used to determine your motives. So far you keep confirming them.

No it wasn’t. It’s a convenient one for anti-Westerners to use, but in case you’ve missed it the same countries opposing the West now opposed the West back during the Kosovo intervention, using the same rationales. It wAs EvEn An IlLeGaL wAr BeCaUsE rUsSiA aNd ChInA dIdN’t ApPrOvE oF iT oN tHe SeCuRiTy CoUnCiL jUsT lIkE iRaQ!!!!1!! NATO had to step in and handle it on their own.

The “original sin”? Seriously, what makes Iraq uniquely bad? I think you’re suffering from too narrow a perspective if you think there was anything uniquely bad about Iraq. Both over the years and concurrently around the world there have been plenty of other wars similar to Iraq in whole or in part. Sorry pal Rumsfeld is dead now so you can’t punish him, and he was the one who fucked up the most. As for the others, some probably do deserve punishment but probably not what you have in mind. You are being vague about “the perpetrators’” numbers and names and what you want done to them so I can’t say more about that without details.

About narrow perspectives: tankies were around well before the “original sin”. They were there saying the same things before the Iraq War, flying to Baghdad to show opposition to the U.S. and get placed on bridges and the like. They were there saying the same things during the Gulf War - one of them was a left-wing high school teacher of mine who declared her support for Saddam Hussein (and then left the school, I think). They opposed Panama, and Libya, and Grenada, and they’ve been around since at least 1956!. And they’ve always been horrible people, as that link will elucidate.

And then your logic goes haywire. Because you’re drawing an equivalence again by saying that somehow everyone who didn’t oppose the Iraq intervention has no standing to criticize Russia? Because somehow everyone who did so was “bloodthirsty”? You are aware Saddam Hussein’s regime was guilty of every war crime there is, including at least two genocides, except using nukes, and that only because the Israelis bombed his research facility…which the French were helping with. But those aren’t “original sins” that are unforgivable, so only America is too “bloodthirsty” to criticize Russia.

Ah, yes, the France of Jacque Chirac, a sterling example to follow for certain and in regards to Iraq well Wikipedia says: “Along with Vladimir Putin (whom he called "a personal friend"),[56] Hu Jintao, and Gerhard Schröder, Chirac emerged as a leading voice against George W. Bush and Tony Blair in 2003…” Chirac, Putin, Hu, and Schroder. You sure you want to claim moral superiority for France? Oh wait there’s more: “On 19 January 2006, Chirac said that France was prepared to launch a nuclear strike against any country that sponsors a terrorist attack against French interests. He said his country's nuclear arsenal had been reconfigured to include the ability to make a tactical strike in retaliation for terrorism.[58]” That’s a more extreme stance than the U.S. ever took. Then there’s the long, sordid history of French intervention in Africa, nuclear testing in Oceania…but I suppose those don’t count as “original sins” that are unforgivable so France is good and America is bad, got it.

So, deplatforming for any American who didn’t hold your opinion on Iraq, to not be allowed to criticize Russia? But French are ok, because they have no “original sins”? Well then might as well let Francois Fillon have a platform, it’s not like he had any suspicious ties to Russia!

Despite your protestations, you’re absolutely drawing an equivalence between the Iraq and Ukraine situations. No one who supported the Iraq intervention regardless of their reasons for doing so is to be allowed a platform to criticize Russia! Because they are “bloodthirsty” and tainted with “original sin”! What the fuck is this logic? How the hell does this make sense?

The two situations are not the fucking same!

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2018/3/20/invasion-of-iraq-the-original-sin-of-the-21st-century

https://www.france24.com/en/20170206-interview-joby-warrick-black-flags-rise-isis-islamic-state-group-iraq-war-terrorism

The articles above use the word original sin, sure there is more than just a headline but let me intentionally take it out of context and claim that it says Iraq was some unique evil.

It was the original sin in the sense that it marked the end of the relatively politically calm 90's, the post 9/11 unity, and much greater suspicion of humanitarian intervention.

Also note that I never said that the Iraq was was unforgivable, you did. I said that a reckoning was needed before American credibility was restored. Caught again putting words in my mouth.

And you correct that France has a long sorid history in Africa, especially in Algeria, but that was further back in history than the more recent Iraq war with less of those people alive or relevant politically today, just like how Eisenhower and following presidents supporting Latin American coups tainted with blood the policymakers of the era that went along with it but of Americans of this era are not responsible for his actions, so please avoid further whataboutism.

Yes I am aware Saddam was a monster, again, whataboutism.

What the  is this logic? How the hell does this make sense?

If you ally with unrepentant bad guys, and let bad guys on you side off with a slap on the wrist, than your moral authority when criticizing other bad guys is lessened, which I have been saying over and over in different forms trying to reach you. Simple.

The two situations are not the ing same!

I agree

While sending troops to their death on a lie and giving Fallujah absurd numbers of birth defects is not as bad as a war of conquest

There is a lack of good faith in the arguments they make

What a sick joke.



Why don't you grow a pair and tell me what you really think rather than play this duplicitous game with my words?

[Cashew]

To make some unfounded speculation, does anybody else think part of the reason for the war crimes is to provoke Ukrainian war crimes and scare Russian soldiers away from surrendering, along with making as many officers as possible complicit thereby tying them further to Putin? Or is the Russian army really that bad?

To make some unfounded speculation, does anybody else think part of the reason for the war crimes is to provoke Polish war crimes and scare German soldiers away from surrendering, along with making as many officers as possible complicit thereby tying them further to Hitler? Or is the German army really that bad?

I was pretty honest that I was pulling a conspiracy theory out of my ass was I not? I am fine with being wrong, but I have done nothing against you personally and do not deserve your snark.

[Alben Barkley]

To make some unfounded speculation, does anybody else think part of the reason for the war crimes is to provoke Ukrainian war crimes and scare Russian soldiers away from surrendering, along with making as many officers as possible complicit thereby tying them further to Putin? Or is the Russian army really that bad?

To make some unfounded speculation, does anybody else think part of the reason for the war crimes is to provoke Polish war crimes and scare German soldiers away from surrendering, along with making as many officers as possible complicit thereby tying them further to Hitler? Or is the German army really that bad?

I was pretty honest that I was pulling a conspiracy theory out of my ass was I not? I am fine with being wrong, but I have done nothing against you personally and do not deserve your snark.

Uh, if it was just a joke all along, no reason to be offended by a counter-joke?

[Cashew]

To make some unfounded speculation, does anybody else think part of the reason for the war crimes is to provoke Ukrainian war crimes and scare Russian soldiers away from surrendering, along with making as many officers as possible complicit thereby tying them further to Putin? Or is the Russian army really that bad?

To make some unfounded speculation, does anybody else think part of the reason for the war crimes is to provoke Polish war crimes and scare German soldiers away from surrendering, along with making as many officers as possible complicit thereby tying them further to Hitler? Or is the German army really that bad?

I was pretty honest that I was pulling a conspiracy theory out of my ass was I not? I am fine with being wrong, but I have done nothing against you personally and do not deserve your snark.

Uh, if it was just a joke all along, no reason to be offended by a counter-joke?

I will take your word for it.

[Middle-aged Europe]

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1511031502049587206

[Person Man]

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1511031502049587206

If this doesn’t happen, that would be grounds to defund the UN.

[TiltsAreUnderrated]

Plot twist. Western official: "My understanding is that tanks & jets will not be supplied, partly because...they have this offensive dimension...but also...would not be particularly relevant... what the Americans have told us is that they are not minded to give [MBTs] to Ukraine"

Yes, because Ukraine is going to storm Moscow with a few hundred Soviet-era T-72 tanks.

This is pathetic. If the Ukrainians need tanks, then give them the bloody tanks!

It looks like the Czechs have begun to do so with their old reserve stocks: https://echo24.cz/a/SrjYb/cesko-poslalo-na-ukrajinu-desitky-tanku-t-72-a-bvp

In theory, it might have been wiser to apply the (relatively quick, according to certain OSINT accounts) upgrade of giving these tanks reactive armour, but that could still be doable in Ukraine and perhaps crappy tanks now are more important for Ukraine than somewhat less crappy tanks in a few weeks.

[GoTfan]

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1511031502049587206

If this doesn’t happen, that would be grounds to defund the UN.

Which would in turn make the UN dominated by China.

[CumbrianLefty]

In Syria, the opposition has been a mixed bag of factions but the Assad regime has been outright genocidal, backed by - hey, I’ll be! - Iran and Russia. Or do the same people who go into hysterics at the thought of ever opposing Russia in Ukraine suddenly support doing so in Syria?

There is a lack of good faith in the arguments they make.

Well that is a polite - some might even say somewhat euphemistic - way of putting it. Indeed one of the main reasons for the reluctance of many to openly intervene in Syria was the deeply problematic nature of much of the opposition. Only a few nutters ever disagreed that Assad is thoroughly bad.

[TiltsAreUnderrated]

Protesters in Moscow have staged “die-ins” to demonstrate against the Bucha massacre: https://www.twitter.com/holodmedia/status/1511096128082690053
Ukraine deserves to be commended for its many acts of bravery, but those are easier than they otherwise would be because it faces an existential threat. These Muscovites could have kept their heads down but chose not to, and that takes comparable courage IMO.

Nova Green has done a good job highlighting them here and it is important to remember their struggle as Duginists and Russophobes seek to erase the visibility of conscientious Russians.

[Meclazine for Israel]

These Muscovites could have kept their heads down but chose not to, and that takes comparable courage IMO.

Bernie Sanders said he admired the courageous people of Moscow who risk their own livelihood to protest this war.

It has now gone to a new level of grotesque.

[Middle-aged Europe]

https://twitter.com/business/status/1511283954644664323

[Person Man]

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1511031502049587206

If this doesn’t happen, that would be grounds to defund the UN.

Which would in turn make the UN dominated by China.

No one would stay in the UN besides Chinese satellites.
At any rate, genocide is non-negotiable. Unfortunately, this is how we will wander into some sort of great reckoning. The incentive to play ball will evaporate as the costs render in pointless.

[pppolitics]

https://twitter.com/KyivPost/status/1510950415092916227

[pppolitics]

https://twitter.com/Mariana_Betsa/status/1510966912724963328

[Omega21]

https://twitter.com/KyivPost/status/1510950415092916227

The Russian separatist posted this over a week ago, saying the girl was "tortured by Azovites"

[rc18]

Having spent over an hour last night reading social media posts from Ukrainians in Russian-occupied towns and cities, about their fears of ending up like the people in Bucha (yes, they are aware), I'm really losing my tolerance for arseholes posting Russian talking points.