Russia-Ukraine war and related tensions Megathread
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Author Topic: Russia-Ukraine war and related tensions Megathread  (Read 960025 times)
Storr
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« Reply #18900 on: February 06, 2023, 11:21:12 AM »
Quote from: Woody on February 05, 2023, 03:23:35 PM


Maybe not?
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jaichind
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« Reply #18901 on: February 06, 2023, 12:15:58 PM »
Quote from: Stranger in a strange land on February 06, 2023, 10:44:47 AM

Even if Bennett's story is true:
1) Why would Zelensky believe any promise from Putin? Putin has lied and broken promises repeatedly, especially on matters related to Ukraine.
2) Why would Zelensky believe Bennett? During the early days of the war, the thought was that he was trying to broker a ceasefire to enhance his personal standing and that of Israel, and even if he was acting in completely good faith, he would still have incentive to either lie or not tell the whole truth.

All reasonable points.  My point is that even if true Bennett could have kept the story to himself.  I would be curious about why Bennett made this story public and told it in a way that made Zelensky look bad.
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Stranger in a strange land
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« Reply #18902 on: February 06, 2023, 02:27:08 PM »
Quote from: jaichind on February 06, 2023, 12:15:58 PM
Quote from: Stranger in a strange land on February 06, 2023, 10:44:47 AM

Even if Bennett's story is true:
1) Why would Zelensky believe any promise from Putin? Putin has lied and broken promises repeatedly, especially on matters related to Ukraine.
2) Why would Zelensky believe Bennett? During the early days of the war, the thought was that he was trying to broker a ceasefire to enhance his personal standing and that of Israel, and even if he was acting in completely good faith, he would still have incentive to either lie or not tell the whole truth.

All reasonable points.  My point is that even if true Bennett could have kept the story to himself.  I would be curious about why Bennett made this story public and told it in a way that made Zelensky look bad.
It only looks bad if you consider Bennett and Putin to be as or more trustworthy than Zelensky, which no sane or thinking person should.
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jaichind
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« Reply #18903 on: February 06, 2023, 02:40:31 PM »
Quote from: Stranger in a strange land on February 06, 2023, 02:27:08 PM
Quote from: jaichind on February 06, 2023, 12:15:58 PM
Quote from: Stranger in a strange land on February 06, 2023, 10:44:47 AM

Even if Bennett's story is true:
1) Why would Zelensky believe any promise from Putin? Putin has lied and broken promises repeatedly, especially on matters related to Ukraine.
2) Why would Zelensky believe Bennett? During the early days of the war, the thought was that he was trying to broker a ceasefire to enhance his personal standing and that of Israel, and even if he was acting in completely good faith, he would still have incentive to either lie or not tell the whole truth.

All reasonable points.  My point is that even if true Bennett could have kept the story to himself.  I would be curious about why Bennett made this story public and told it in a way that made Zelensky look bad.
It only looks bad if you consider Bennett and Putin to be as or more trustworthy than Zelensky, which no sane or thinking person should.

Sure, everyone has the right be believe who they want to believe.  My point is, of all the people in the world, why would Bennett choose to tell a story to make Zelensky look bad?  Putin and Zelensky clearly have incentives to make the other person look bad but why would Bennett want to jump into this?
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Dereich
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« Reply #18904 on: February 06, 2023, 03:23:16 PM »
Quote from: jaichind on February 06, 2023, 02:40:31 PM
Quote from: Stranger in a strange land on February 06, 2023, 02:27:08 PM
Quote from: jaichind on February 06, 2023, 12:15:58 PM
Quote from: Stranger in a strange land on February 06, 2023, 10:44:47 AM

Even if Bennett's story is true:
1) Why would Zelensky believe any promise from Putin? Putin has lied and broken promises repeatedly, especially on matters related to Ukraine.
2) Why would Zelensky believe Bennett? During the early days of the war, the thought was that he was trying to broker a ceasefire to enhance his personal standing and that of Israel, and even if he was acting in completely good faith, he would still have incentive to either lie or not tell the whole truth.

All reasonable points.  My point is that even if true Bennett could have kept the story to himself.  I would be curious about why Bennett made this story public and told it in a way that made Zelensky look bad.
It only looks bad if you consider Bennett and Putin to be as or more trustworthy than Zelensky, which no sane or thinking person should.

Sure, everyone has the right be believe who they want to believe.  My point is, of all the people in the world, why would Bennett choose to tell a story to make Zelensky look bad?  Putin and Zelensky clearly have incentives to make the other person look bad but why would Bennett want to jump into this?

Why would you assume that Bennett considered how it made Zelensky look at all? He's a now retired politician who wanted to make himself sound important by playing up his role in the biggest geopolitical incident of his time in office. The story as he told it is dramatic and puts him back in the spotlight. It was also told in the middle of a five hour interview. Ascribing greater political motive to an off-the-cuff story by a former politician seems pointless.
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Torie
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« Reply #18905 on: February 06, 2023, 03:54:35 PM »
Given that the Bennett meeting was a month after Putin invaded, the whole thing is absurd. Sure, I can see Zelinsky telling Bennett he would not join NATO if Putin got out of Ukraine, but surely Z did not think that would happen, just as he never thought that Putin would not kill him the first chance he got (Putin had already certainly tried), no matter what.
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Hindsight was 2020
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« Reply #18906 on: February 06, 2023, 04:44:01 PM »

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Storr
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« Reply #18907 on: February 06, 2023, 04:56:12 PM »
Just part of a long and thorough thread:







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jaichind
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« Reply #18908 on: February 07, 2023, 02:55:08 AM »
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-withdraws-19-mln-russian-soviet-era-books-libraries-2023-02-07/

"Ukraine withdraws 19 mln Russian, Soviet-era books from libraries"
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #18909 on: February 07, 2023, 03:00:04 AM »
Welcome to the Mini-Cultural Revolution, Vashyavatnik-style!
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jaichind
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« Reply #18910 on: February 07, 2023, 03:06:31 AM »
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/02/06/gop-polls-russia-ukraine-territory/

"GOP base warms to giving Russia some of Ukraine's territory"
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #18911 on: February 07, 2023, 03:08:39 AM »
Not impossible that Biden proposing "land for peace" would have been more popular among Republicans than Democrats.
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Logical
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« Reply #18912 on: February 07, 2023, 04:52:09 AM »

Who do you think will the GOP leadership listen to. The braindead base who blew their chance at winning the Senate or Lockheed Martin's finest lobbyists?
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jaichind
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« Reply #18913 on: February 07, 2023, 04:59:12 AM »
Quote from: Logical on February 07, 2023, 04:52:09 AM

Who do you think will the GOP leadership listen to. The braindead base who blew their chance at winning the Senate or Lockheed Martin's finest lobbyists?

I agree this will have very little impact on the GOP policy position this year and most likely next.  On the flip side if these trends continue and also spread to independents this could boost Trump both in the GOP primary and general election.  Remember that in the Midwest the Scandinavian vote tends to be anti-war.  They were a factor in 2016 and could be a factor in 2024 especially if Trump is the GOP nominee and runs on an antiwar platform.
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jaichind
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« Reply #18914 on: February 07, 2023, 05:03:08 AM »
https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/02/06/austria-russia-osce-meeting-ukraine-boycott/

"Austria’s About to Give Russia a Soapbox at the OSCE"

Looks like Austria will allow some Russians to attend the OSCE summit.
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jaichind
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« Reply #18915 on: February 07, 2023, 05:53:10 AM »
https://www.voanews.com/a/ukraine-recalls-ambassador-to-germany-/6652600.html

"Ukraine Recalls Ambassador to Germany"

This guy, Andriy Melnyk, who defended Bandera and was then removed as Ukraine's Ambassador to Germany is now the new Ukraine Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs
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Middle-aged Europe
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« Reply #18916 on: February 07, 2023, 06:37:05 AM »
Quote from: jaichind on February 07, 2023, 05:53:10 AM
https://www.voanews.com/a/ukraine-recalls-ambassador-to-germany-/6652600.html

"Ukraine Recalls Ambassador to Germany"

This guy, Andriy Melnyk, who defended Bandera and was then removed as Ukraine's Ambassador to Germany is now the new Ukraine Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs

You didn't actually strike me as the kind of person who would have issues with defending someone like Bandera.
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jaichind
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« Reply #18917 on: February 07, 2023, 06:48:01 AM »
Quote from: Middle-aged Europe on February 07, 2023, 06:37:05 AM
Quote from: jaichind on February 07, 2023, 05:53:10 AM
https://www.voanews.com/a/ukraine-recalls-ambassador-to-germany-/6652600.html

"Ukraine Recalls Ambassador to Germany"

This guy, Andriy Melnyk, who defended Bandera and was then removed as Ukraine's Ambassador to Germany is now the new Ukraine Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs

You didn't actually strike me as the kind of person who would have issues with defending someone like Bandera.

I have no issue with Bandera.  I view him in the same vein as the Chetniks in Serbia and on the whole, would lean toward being positive toward both.  My issue here is if defending Bandera caused a problem in Germany then Ukraine should not back down to remove him.  If you are going to remove him then why then promote him.
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Woody
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« Reply #18918 on: February 07, 2023, 07:36:09 AM »
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Hindsight was 2020
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« Reply #18919 on: February 07, 2023, 08:06:31 AM »
Based!
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jaichind
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« Reply #18920 on: February 07, 2023, 08:27:24 AM »
Russian rocket attacks are having an economic impact.  The Ukraine economy is getting shut down so the government has to print more money which in term means more loss of reserves to keep UAH stable.  There was a big Ukraine devaluation back in July.  Looks like there is a need for another economic aid package soon and/or another UAH devaluation.
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Woody
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« Reply #18921 on: February 07, 2023, 09:06:12 AM »
Wagner pushing towards the Slovyansk-Bakhmut highway from Blahodatne and Soledar according to UA GenStab (Around Zaliznianske). In Bakhmut itself Russian forces roughly control 1/3 of the city now.
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Woody
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« Reply #18922 on: February 07, 2023, 09:14:56 AM »
Russians also did some probing in E.Kharkiv Oblast. Towards Dvorichna - Kupyansk.
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Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom
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« Reply #18923 on: February 07, 2023, 11:15:46 AM »
I have taken to following the Sea Lion Press thread on the invasion rather than reading the increasingly large piles of incomprehensible fascist drivel written by subliterate war crime apologists like SirWoodbury and Jaichind.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #18924 on: February 07, 2023, 11:27:08 AM »
People here really need to learn to use the ignore function (ideally with the enhancements you can turn on in the "Atlas - Forum Options" menu).
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