PA-SN 2022 megathread: Shrek vs. The Wizard of Oz

[NerdyBohemian]

I am speaking with a conservative privately on this from here. Things are simmering down greatly.

I think Oz's terrible gaffe(s) certainly gave Fetterman an opening here.

Well, tbf you think everything gives the Dems an opening, so who knows.

You think it's okay to promise to leave the forum for a year and not follow through.

Damnnnnnn.

[Ebowed]

The collective delusion here is ridiculous.

Rather than acknowledge the poor optics, many people opted instead to take on the burdens of any disabled person anywhere who has been treated unfairly, and by extension, gain the "moral high ground" by then accusing anyone who doesn't share their perspective of ableism.  Does this tactic remind you of previous electoral successes?

It is this utter refusal to use your own eyes and ears, and to instead absorb and parrot The Line, and conveniently it means that your opponents are bigots so you don't even need to engage in the courtesy of debating their ideas.  If anything, Fetterman's communication shortcomings overshadowed the fact that he repeatedly, shamelessly lied about his position on a number of issues.

I will give Fetterman credit though, at least he isn't a total piece of dirt who is running a scare campaign about Oz's religion and national origin like some people here would desperately like him to do.

[Ferguson97]

https://twitter.com/DavidABergstein/status/1585348082119897088

Dude can you cool it on posting so many things from literal Democratic operatives? He’s the communications director of the DSCC, his job is to create Democratic biased content.

The forum at least has a pretense of objectivity. It struggles with that already, it doesn’t need to become VoteDem.

His posts are increasingly becoming white noise to me. As I said the other day, Fetterman could be comatose and in a hospital bed, hooked to life support, and Democrats - such as many on this forum - would crawl on their hands and knees over broken glass to vote for him.

A comatose Democrat is better than any Republican.

[Pericles]

https://twitter.com/DavidABergstein/status/1585348082119897088

Dude can you cool it on posting so many things from literal Democratic operatives? He’s the communications director of the DSCC, his job is to create Democratic biased content.

The forum at least has a pretense of objectivity. It struggles with that already, it doesn’t need to become VoteDem.

His posts are increasingly becoming white noise to me. As I said the other day, Fetterman could be comatose and in a hospital bed, hooked to life support, and Democrats - such as many on this forum - would crawl on their hands and knees over broken glass to vote for him.

Obviously Democrats would, this seat decides control of the Senate and we don't want Mitch McConnell to be Majority Leader again.

[Calthrina950]

https://twitter.com/DavidABergstein/status/1585348082119897088

Dude can you cool it on posting so many things from literal Democratic operatives? He’s the communications director of the DSCC, his job is to create Democratic biased content.

The forum at least has a pretense of objectivity. It struggles with that already, it doesn’t need to become VoteDem.

His posts are increasingly becoming white noise to me. As I said the other day, Fetterman could be comatose and in a hospital bed, hooked to life support, and Democrats - such as many on this forum - would crawl on their hands and knees over broken glass to vote for him.

Obviously Democrats would, this seat decides control of the Senate and we don't want Mitch McConnell to be Majority Leader again.

That makes Democrats no better than Republicans here. Just as Republicans are fully behind Herschel Walker, even in the aftermath of his scandals, so are Democrats fully behind John Fetterman, even with his health struggles. All that matters is power for both political parties.

[Pericles]

https://twitter.com/DavidABergstein/status/1585348082119897088

Dude can you cool it on posting so many things from literal Democratic operatives? He’s the communications director of the DSCC, his job is to create Democratic biased content.

The forum at least has a pretense of objectivity. It struggles with that already, it doesn’t need to become VoteDem.

His posts are increasingly becoming white noise to me. As I said the other day, Fetterman could be comatose and in a hospital bed, hooked to life support, and Democrats - such as many on this forum - would crawl on their hands and knees over broken glass to vote for him.

Obviously Democrats would, this seat decides control of the Senate and we don't want Mitch McConnell to be Majority Leader again.

That makes Democrats no better than Republicans here. Just as Republicans are fully behind Herschel Walker, even in the aftermath of his scandals, so are Democrats fully behind John Fetterman, even with his health struggles. All that matters is power for both political parties.

We nominated a decent person who can do the job, it's not at all like Republicans who keep on nominating terrible people like in this very race the known quack and scammer who tortured and killed 329 dogs.

[Calthrina950]

https://twitter.com/DavidABergstein/status/1585348082119897088

Dude can you cool it on posting so many things from literal Democratic operatives? He’s the communications director of the DSCC, his job is to create Democratic biased content.

The forum at least has a pretense of objectivity. It struggles with that already, it doesn’t need to become VoteDem.

His posts are increasingly becoming white noise to me. As I said the other day, Fetterman could be comatose and in a hospital bed, hooked to life support, and Democrats - such as many on this forum - would crawl on their hands and knees over broken glass to vote for him.

Obviously Democrats would, this seat decides control of the Senate and we don't want Mitch McConnell to be Majority Leader again.

That makes Democrats no better than Republicans here. Just as Republicans are fully behind Herschel Walker, even in the aftermath of his scandals, so are Democrats fully behind John Fetterman, even with his health struggles. All that matters is power for both political parties.

We nominated a decent person who can do the job, it's not at all like Republicans who keep on nominating terrible people like in this very race the known quack and scammer who tortured and killed 329 dogs.

You may have nominated a decent person, but I rather not take a chance on him. I'm not a fan of Oz's either, and I feel sorry for the voters of Pennsylvania.

[Penn_Quaker_Girl]

https://twitter.com/DavidABergstein/status/1585348082119897088

Dude can you cool it on posting so many things from literal Democratic operatives? He’s the communications director of the DSCC, his job is to create Democratic biased content.

The forum at least has a pretense of objectivity. It struggles with that already, it doesn’t need to become VoteDem.

His posts are increasingly becoming white noise to me. As I said the other day, Fetterman could be comatose and in a hospital bed, hooked to life support, and Democrats - such as many on this forum - would crawl on their hands and knees over broken glass to vote for him.

A comatose Democrat is better than any Republican.

Ferg!

[TheReckoning]

https://twitter.com/DavidABergstein/status/1585348082119897088

Dude can you cool it on posting so many things from literal Democratic operatives? He’s the communications director of the DSCC, his job is to create Democratic biased content.

The forum at least has a pretense of objectivity. It struggles with that already, it doesn’t need to become VoteDem.

His posts are increasingly becoming white noise to me. As I said the other day, Fetterman could be comatose and in a hospital bed, hooked to life support, and Democrats - such as many on this forum - would crawl on their hands and knees over broken glass to vote for him.

Obviously Democrats would, this seat decides control of the Senate and we don't want Mitch McConnell to be Majority Leader again.

That makes Democrats no better than Republicans here. Just as Republicans are fully behind Herschel Walker, even in the aftermath of his scandals, so are Democrats fully behind John Fetterman, even with his health struggles. All that matters is power for both political parties.

We nominated a decent person who can do the job, it's not at all like Republicans who keep on nominating terrible people like in this very race the known quack and scammer who tortured and killed 329 dogs.

What makes you think Oz is a bad person incapable of doing the job?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1585369627286155264?t=ejp-x-fMyNZCyCE3w7...

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/DavidABergstein/status/1585348082119897088

Dude can you cool it on posting so many things from literal Democratic operatives? He’s the communications director of the DSCC, his job is to create Democratic biased content.

The forum at least has a pretense of objectivity. It struggles with that already, it doesn’t need to become VoteDem.

His posts are increasingly becoming white noise to me. As I said the other day, Fetterman could be comatose and in a hospital bed, hooked to life support, and Democrats - such as many on this forum - would crawl on their hands and knees over broken glass to vote for him.

Obviously Democrats would, this seat decides control of the Senate and we don't want Mitch McConnell to be Majority Leader again.

That makes Democrats no better than Republicans here. Just as Republicans are fully behind Herschel Walker, even in the aftermath of his scandals, so are Democrats fully behind John Fetterman, even with his health struggles. All that matters is power for both political parties.

Do you really not see a qualitative difference between Fetterman and Walker?  Fetterman has a health issue that is certainly concering but is hopefully improving.  In other respects he's a decent person and an experienced public servant.  Walker is a serial liar and domestic abuser with zero government experience who clearly lacks the capability to be a Senator.

And before you ask: no, I wouldn't vote for Walker if he was the Democratic nominee.

[OSR stands with Israel]

https://twitter.com/DavidABergstein/status/1585348082119897088

Dude can you cool it on posting so many things from literal Democratic operatives? He’s the communications director of the DSCC, his job is to create Democratic biased content.

The forum at least has a pretense of objectivity. It struggles with that already, it doesn’t need to become VoteDem.

His posts are increasingly becoming white noise to me. As I said the other day, Fetterman could be comatose and in a hospital bed, hooked to life support, and Democrats - such as many on this forum - would crawl on their hands and knees over broken glass to vote for him.

Obviously Democrats would, this seat decides control of the Senate and we don't want Mitch McConnell to be Majority Leader again.

That makes Democrats no better than Republicans here. Just as Republicans are fully behind Herschel Walker, even in the aftermath of his scandals, so are Democrats fully behind John Fetterman, even with his health struggles. All that matters is power for both political parties.

To be fair if your name isn’t Susan Collins , Lisa Murkowski, Mitt Romney , Joe Manchin, or Kyrsten Sinema then it pretty much doenst practically matter who your nominee is anyway . They pretty much are gonna vote with either Mitch McConnell or Chuck Schumer 90% of the time and given how little power committees have this day, then if really doesn’t matter who the individual really is .

Basically our legislative branch has basically become like a parliament where you are basically voting for the leader of your party rather than the individual nominee. So basically in GA , AZ , and PA the races aren’t really Masters vs Kelly , Walker vs Warnock and Oz vs Fetterman but McConnell vs Schumer .

If you want individuals to matter again for the senate you first have to make reforms to reduce the power of senate leadership first

[Calthrina950]

https://twitter.com/DavidABergstein/status/1585348082119897088

Dude can you cool it on posting so many things from literal Democratic operatives? He’s the communications director of the DSCC, his job is to create Democratic biased content.

The forum at least has a pretense of objectivity. It struggles with that already, it doesn’t need to become VoteDem.

His posts are increasingly becoming white noise to me. As I said the other day, Fetterman could be comatose and in a hospital bed, hooked to life support, and Democrats - such as many on this forum - would crawl on their hands and knees over broken glass to vote for him.

Obviously Democrats would, this seat decides control of the Senate and we don't want Mitch McConnell to be Majority Leader again.

That makes Democrats no better than Republicans here. Just as Republicans are fully behind Herschel Walker, even in the aftermath of his scandals, so are Democrats fully behind John Fetterman, even with his health struggles. All that matters is power for both political parties.

Do you really not see a qualitative difference between Fetterman and Walker?  Fetterman has a health issue that is certainly concering but is hopefully improving.  In other respects he's a decent person and an experienced public servant.  Walker is a serial liar and domestic abuser with zero government experience who clearly lacks the capability to be a Senator.

And before you ask: no, I wouldn't vote for Walker if he was the Democratic nominee.

I don't agree with several of Fetterman's policy positions and generally don't have a favorable view of his background or of his qualifications. I'll acknowledge that Walker is much worse than Fetterman, and I've condemned Walker on a number of occasions before. But I don't think the Senate would be enhanced by the presence of either of them.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

What I can't shake here is the implication embedded in all of the posts from our "friends" on the other side, which is that if you've had a stroke that causes aphasia, you are either disqualified from public service because it's somehow an immutable characteristic or you should retire from public life and "focus on recovery" i.e. more or less retire to nursing home. If anything horrible has ever happened to you? It's time to basically give up on life because if you do that, it helps some scumbag snake oil peddler with a R behind their name get elected to Senate.

John Fetterman is 53 years old. His brain is almost certainly in better shape than the brain of Chuck Grassley and we can expect Fetterman will be alive for much longer than Grassley will be alive. Yet we're subjected to a torrent of abuse when Grassley is effectively running as a rotting corpse. It isn't insulting to mention this about Grassley because the curse of our mortality and fragility in old age is a fact of human life - he is doomed to die sooner rather than later.

The hypocrisy and lack of self-reflection here is stunning. It is possible to hope for your candidate to win without signaling that a father with children who seems to basically be a good guy is a reprobate and also a vegetable.

[wbrocks67]

Glad CNN is covering this. He sounds totally fine and coherent.

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1585424353100972035

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1585422912164691968

[wbrocks67]

https://twitter.com/DavidABergstein/status/1585348082119897088

Dude can you cool it on posting so many things from literal Democratic operatives? He’s the communications director of the DSCC, his job is to create Democratic biased content.

The forum at least has a pretense of objectivity. It struggles with that already, it doesn’t need to become VoteDem.

he didn't "create" anything, I was posting because it's literally a screenshot of what CNN was covering today, and it's relevant that they were covering that viral moment

[Comrade Funk]

Can we stop pretending Oprah wasn't just a dangerous hack who allowed these frauds to gain credibility?

[Person Man]

All I know about this race is that if Fetterman loses, it's not because he ran a bad campaign.

And it looks like we may have overreacted last night at how much the debate would hurt Fetterman, because if anything he might have indeed gotten a sympathy boost to balance out the bad performance. It's definitely possible for Team Oz to overplay this and end up looking like jackasses.

I guess that having a stroke in your early fifties really is the American experience. More people can relate to that than being a TV doctor.

“Looks like” jackasses?

[kwabbit]

https://twitter.com/DavidABergstein/status/1585348082119897088

Dude can you cool it on posting so many things from literal Democratic operatives? He’s the communications director of the DSCC, his job is to create Democratic biased content.

The forum at least has a pretense of objectivity. It struggles with that already, it doesn’t need to become VoteDem.

A) don't police on me on what I can post and can't
B) he didn't "create" anything, I was posting because it's literally a screenshot of what CNN was covering today, and it's relevant that they were covering that viral moment

I'm not telling you, I'm just asking you. No one's gonna stop you from posting this stuff, just keep in mind that a lot us are here because we want to escape echo chambers and partisan media. The Senate threads don't need to become dominated by you and citizenz each posting propaganda pieces.

Also, yes he did create something. Bad news cycle for Oz is a spin. The only video on CNN's website and the two CNN.com headlines are negative towards Fetterman and his debate performance. To take the 20% of the coverage that focuses on Oz and his abortion gaffe and portray it as the primary takeaway from the debate is literally the job of the comms director.

Same as the Adam Jentleson tweet about the local coverage being neutral, when it's been predominantly negative. The Fox Philly website is 2 negative about Fetterman, the WPXI being two neutral, one negative. Those neutral are debate recaps that focus mainly on Fetterman's struggles.

It might seem likes news, but it's spin. I don't have a problem with most of your postings. The early vote stuff is great, but in my opinion anything from someone paid by a PAC or campaign is not making the conversation better.

[lakeview]

What I can't shake here is the implication embedded in all of the posts from our "friends" on the other side, which is that if you've had a stroke that causes aphasia, you are either disqualified from public service because it's somehow an immutable characteristic or you should retire from public life and "focus on recovery" i.e. more or less retire to nursing home. If anything horrible has ever happened to you? It's time to basically give up on life because if you do that, it helps some scumbag snake oil peddler with a R behind their name get elected to Senate.

John Fetterman is 53 years old. His brain is almost certainly in better shape than the brain of Chuck Grassley and we can expect Fetterman will be alive for much longer than Grassley will be alive. Yet we're subjected to a torrent of abuse when Grassley is effectively running as a rotting corpse. It isn't insulting to mention this about Grassley because the curse of our mortality and fragility in old age is a fact of human life - he is doomed to die sooner rather than later.

The hypocrisy and lack of self-reflection here is stunning. It is possible to hope for your candidate to win without signaling that a father with children who seems to basically be a good guy is a reprobate and also a vegetable.

You know this how?

You people keep demonstrating why this frenzied defense of Fetterman is such a turnoff. You know it's a bad situation but you think if you just talk enough, regardless of whether you know what the hell you're talking about, it will just go away.

Undecided voters don't want to hear "don't worry, his brain is fine" from someone whose basis for saying that is nothing beyond wishful thinking. They don't to hear what-about-ing about Herschel Walker or Chuck Grassley.

Undecided voters want to know why you people insisted Fetterman was ready to debate and would be fine, and he wasn't. What happened? And why should anyone believe this is the last time the Fetterman campaign will offer reassurances that turn out to be empty?

[wbrocks67]

Could be me just being too optimistic, but I feel like this could ultimately backfire for GOP and implore empathy towards Fetterman.

Could totally be wrong; we'll see how this plays out.

https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1585446103931097090

[wbrocks67]

https://twitter.com/DavidABergstein/status/1585348082119897088

Dude can you cool it on posting so many things from literal Democratic operatives? He’s the communications director of the DSCC, his job is to create Democratic biased content.

The forum at least has a pretense of objectivity. It struggles with that already, it doesn’t need to become VoteDem.

A) don't police on me on what I can post and can't
B) he didn't "create" anything, I was posting because it's literally a screenshot of what CNN was covering today, and it's relevant that they were covering that viral moment

I'm not telling you, I'm just asking you. No one's gonna stop you from posting this stuff, just keep in mind that a lot us are here because we want to escape echo chambers and partisan media. The Senate threads don't need to become dominated by you and citizenz each posting propaganda pieces.

Also, yes he did create something. Bad news cycle for Oz is a spin. The only video on CNN's website and the two CNN.com headlines are negative towards Fetterman and his debate performance. To take the 20% of the coverage that focuses on Oz and his abortion gaffe and portray it as the primary takeaway from the debate is literally the job of the comms director.

Same as the Adam Jentleson tweet about the local coverage being neutral, when it's been predominantly negative. The Fox Philly website is 2 negative about Fetterman, the WPXI being two neutral, one negative. Those neutral are debate recaps that focus mainly on Fetterman's struggles.

It might seem likes news, but it's spin. I don't have a problem with most of your postings. The early vote stuff is great, but in my opinion anything from someone paid by a PAC or campaign is not making the conversation better.

My only point in posting the CNN thing was to show that they were talking about the Oz gaffe as well. I didn't mean to imply they weren't saying anything else about Fetterman. Was just posting to show that they were talking about all of it, especially after the clip went viral. We didn't know if news outlets were going to ignore it or not.

Like with the ABC/NBC stuff, didn't post it because it was positive or negative. Posted it because both those clips were what they were - they were mostly neutral pieces, which we expect out of local news. If anyone has actually been handling this race with a little bit of grace, it's been the local Philly TV stations. Usually they stay away from adding too commentary. My point was just to show it's quite different what is being digested on local news compared to the constant POLITICO/DC beltway press bullsh!t.

I deleted my first comment b/c I didn't want to come off as harsh. But also I implore you -please do not lump me in with citizenz lol.

[jamestroll]

The collective delusion here is ridiculous.

Rather than acknowledge the poor optics, many people opted instead to take on the burdens of any disabled person anywhere who has been treated unfairly, and by extension, gain the "moral high ground" by then accusing anyone who doesn't share their perspective of ableism.  Does this tactic remind you of previous electoral successes?

It is this utter refusal to use your own eyes and ears, and to instead absorb and parrot The Line, and conveniently it means that your opponents are bigots so you don't even need to engage in the courtesy of debating their ideas.  If anything, Fetterman's communication shortcomings overshadowed the fact that he repeatedly, shamelessly lied about his position on a number of issues.

I will give Fetterman credit though, at least he isn't a total piece of dirt who is running a scare campaign about Oz's religion and national origin like some people here would desperately like him to do.

Some of the deleted posts were over the line when it came to making fun of Fetterman's ailments.

I went to far with others as well, which is sad. I generally think I have a good relation with blue avatars for a Democrat?

There is no denial that the right is harsher on disabilities compared to the left even if it is not that common.

But anyway I talked with a fairly prolific conservative here privately. All is good now.

[jamestroll]

I really miss the Virginia Governor thread. it was so peaceful and quiet compared to this.

Everyone was civil. And Non Swing Voter was so nice.

[Anti Democrat Democrat Club]

Me, waiting for Alben or the other #LambOrBusters to put up a proper rebuttal to my post