PA-SN 2022 megathread: Shrek vs. The Wizard of Oz

[Boobs]

The accommodations for Fetterman’s current condition - closed captioning - are no more unreasonable or burdensome than for a deaf or hard-of-hearing person, which I assume no reasonable person would describe as “unfit” for office. Comparing it to Feinstein’s evident cognitive decline, and the implication it makes someone unfit for office, is ableist, regardless of how you feel about that term or how much you grumble about “wokeism”, and it implies those with hearing disabilities are somehow intellectually unfit or unable. The media’s coverage of this story is horrible, so much for the “woke” control of such institutions.

[This user has not been convicted of 34 felonies]

I don't remember this much handwringing after Senator Lujan suffered a stroke. Not sure if anyone questioned his fitness to serve.

[Dr Oz Lost Party!]

The MSM going full blown ableist against Fetterman makes my skin crawl. I use closed captioning whenever I watch Netflix or Hulu, does that mean I'm disqualified from holding political office? What a f****** joke. Don't ever let anyone tell you that there's such thing as the "liberal media" in this country.

One of the only things I will ever agree with Trump on is that the media in this country is irredeemably rotten.

I mean, just look at this horses*t.

[GALeftist]

The MSM going full blown ableist against Fetterman makes my skin crawl. I use closed captioning whenever I watch Netflix or Hulu, does that mean I'm disqualified from holding political office? What a f****** joke. Don't ever let anyone tell you that there's such thing as the "liberal media" in this country.

One of the only things I will ever agree with Trump on is that the media in this country is irredeemably rotten.

A lot of people have been saying variations of "the media likes Republicans and wants them to win." I think that actually gives them too much credit in that it's only incidentally true. They know that if they were to actually be scrupulous in their coverage here, it would just be an ordinary interview using closed captioning that no one would care about, so they intentionally poked the hornet's nest to provoke an artificial controversy that they can then profit off of. They aren't interested in informing you, they're interested in engaging you, and if anger is more engaging than information then that's what they'll pursue.

[wbrocks67]

I don't remember this much handwringing after Senator Lujan suffered a stroke. Not sure if anyone questioned his fitness to serve.

My point exactly. No one has questioned Lujan at all - not one peep.

[Senator Incitatus]

I don't remember this much handwringing after Senator Lujan suffered a stroke. Not sure if anyone questioned his fitness to serve.

Luján is not up for re-election, and I imagine that if his stroke occurred in 2020, there'd be a very serious chance he'd lose to Ronchetti despite being in a much safer state. It is concerning he's serving after a stroke and I do question his fitness—though I'm not aware of its severity, and there are probably members of the Senate like Feinstein more severely impaired than Fetterman or Luján—but you can't seriously compare the attention on an actively campaigning nominee with a Senator who isn't up for another five years.

The accommodations for Fetterman’s current condition - closed captioning - are no more unreasonable or burdensome than for a deaf or hard-of-hearing person, which I assume no reasonable person would describe as “unfit” for office. Comparing it to Feinstein’s evident cognitive decline, and the implication it makes someone unfit for office, is ableist, regardless of how you feel about that term or how much you grumble about “wokeism”, and it implies those with hearing disabilities are somehow intellectually unfit or unable. The media’s coverage of this story is horrible, so much for the “woke” control of such institutions.

I think the difference is obvious—a hearing impairment alone doesn't point to any underlying cognitive issue, especially presuming that a hearing-impaired candidate would publish their medical records to confirm that. I assume you're being intentionally obtuse but it's not particularly clever.

Fetterman also evidently struggles to read the captions and speak, which is a disability I would consider unfitness for Senate service and has nothing to do with his hearing, except that they stem from the same cause.

[Real Texan Politics]

At the rate Fetterman's going, I honestly don't see the debates happening.

Which is a shame since I was planning on taking a shot (of water) every time he said New Jersey, but alas...

[wbrocks67]

I don't remember this much handwringing after Senator Lujan suffered a stroke. Not sure if anyone questioned his fitness to serve.

Luján is not up for re-election, and I imagine that if his stroke occurred in 2020, there'd be a very serious chance he'd lose to Ronchetti despite being in a much safer state. It is concerning he's serving after a stroke and I do question his fitness—though I'm not aware of its severity, and there are probably members of the Senate like Feinstein more severely impaired than Fetterman or Luján—but you can't seriously compare the attention on an actively campaigning nominee with a Senator who isn't up for another five years.

The accommodations for Fetterman’s current condition - closed captioning - are no more unreasonable or burdensome than for a deaf or hard-of-hearing person, which I assume no reasonable person would describe as “unfit” for office. Comparing it to Feinstein’s evident cognitive decline, and the implication it makes someone unfit for office, is ableist, regardless of how you feel about that term or how much you grumble about “wokeism”, and it implies those with hearing disabilities are somehow intellectually unfit or unable. The media’s coverage of this story is horrible, so much for the “woke” control of such institutions.

I think the difference is obvious—a hearing impairment alone doesn't point to any underlying cognitive issue, especially presuming that a hearing-impaired candidate would publish their medical records to confirm that. I assume you're being intentionally obtuse but it's not particularly clever.

Fetterman also evidently struggles to read the captions and speak, which is a disability I would consider unfitness for Senate service and has nothing to do with his hearing, except that they stem from the same cause.

Uh, this is quite simply not true. He'll miss a word or two here and there, but he clearly reads it very quickly and understands the question.

[wbrocks67]

From the people who brought you "will the Walker scandal affect the GA race?", now comes this.

Funny how they never ask that when something happens with a Democrat! It's always a level 10 scandal with them. But every time it's about the GOP, it's "will this really have any affect?"

https://twitter.com/rev_avocado/status/1580018375157108736

[GALeftist]

I think the difference is obvious—a hearing impairment alone doesn't point to any underlying cognitive issue

Neither does aphasia. This is like one of my biggest issues with the coverage of this issue. I think it's intuitive to people that issues with the speech processing part of the brain imply issues elsewhere, but that is not the case! This isn't like my spin or anything, this is settled science, feel free to look it up. As such, this should be something that the media emphasizes, because it is unintuitive yet highly relevant to Fetterman's performance as a Senator, yet they have done an extremely poor job at conveying this message, as you've demonstrated.

Fetterman also evidently struggles to read the captions and speak, which is a disability I would consider unfitness for Senate service and has nothing to do with his hearing, except that they stem from the same cause.

I'd be interested to see an example of this, because this doesn't comport with what I've seen.

[wbrocks67]

https://twitter.com/jjabbott/status/1580231295812370437

[Morning in Atlas]

Honestly, that interview was a really bad look for Fetterman.  People will question his mental competence.  If his reaction time is similarly delayed at the debate, it could be a campaign-ending issue for him.

Not to sound like a hack, but i watched it this morning on NBC and thought he did fine.

Unfortunately, people are sheep and will listen to what the magic box tells them instead of using their brains.

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

Are we sure this media "attack" on Fetterman's condition is actually an attack?

Fetterman gained the most in the polls when the Oz campaign was most focused on attacking his health.  It was really a spectacular backfire.

Maybe some in the media realize this and believe that refocusing on his health will make him seem more sympathetic.

[Senator Incitatus]

https://twitter.com/JohnFetterman/status/1580237987639459854

"My opponent is perfectly healthy" as an attack is certainly new ground in politics, whatever else it is. Our country is sick. And yes, Oz is indirectly to blame for that.

[Morning in Atlas]

Are we sure this media "attack" on Fetterman's condition is actually an attack?

Fetterman gained the most in the polls when the Oz campaign was most focused on attacking his health.  It was really a spectacular backfire.

Maybe some in the media realize this and believe that refocusing on his health will make him seem more sympathetic.

Not sure. All I know is that this is by design. Oz is one of them.

[wbrocks67]

Full interview is 32 minutes

https://twitter.com/MeetThePress/status/1580275864628928512

[wbrocks67]

Are we sure this media "attack" on Fetterman's condition is actually an attack?

Fetterman gained the most in the polls when the Oz campaign was most focused on attacking his health.  It was really a spectacular backfire.

Maybe some in the media realize this and believe that refocusing on his health will make him seem more sympathetic.

I mean, absolutely. I don't think the GOP will run on this beyond Twitter posts because the last time they tried it, it backfired.

And it's very possible that many will feel empathetic to Fetterman after seeing he's working on his recovery.

However, still doesn't mean that they handled it the right way.

[This user has not been convicted of 34 felonies]

Good to know what the national media's response to a candidate with Down syndrome or autism would be. I mean, surely if someone who has a stroke cannot serve in government, that means that someone with one of those disorders would also be unfit to serve?

[jamestroll]

Does Fetterman stutter? I hope not.. apparently many people think that is the most difficult to accommodate.

[Aurelius]

Good to know what the national media's response to a candidate with Down syndrome or autism would be. I mean, surely if someone who has a stroke cannot serve in government, that means that someone with one of those disorders would also be unfit to serve?

I mean yeah, someone with Down syndrome does not have the basic cognitive capabilities to serve in elected office. So yes, I absolutely do hope that if by some freak occurrence a major party nominated a candidate with Down syndrome that the media would constantly beat that drum and not let anyone forget it. And it would be cruel to nominate such a candidate in the first place!

Autism is an almost meaningless term nowadays because it covers such a wide spectrum from people who need round-the-clock care all the way to fully-functioning people who are a bit "quirky". There are definitely politicians who have been somewhere on the spectrum.

[Senator Incitatus]

Good to know what the national media's response to a candidate with Down syndrome or autism would be. ... someone with one of those disorders would also be unfit to serve?

I can't tell if you're subversively trying to make Fetterman's condition seem worse by this or draw people into defending him, but yes, an adult with Down syndrome would not be fit to serve as a United States Senator. Are you serious? How would they even win the nomination of a major party in a competitive Senate race?

"Autism" is obviously different, since it refers to a spectrum of disorders, but a non-verbal severely autistic adult or one with high support needs would also be unfit. I feel like I was dosed with one of Oz's quack pills reading this.

[Aurelius]

Good to know what the national media's response to a candidate with Down syndrome or autism would be. ... someone with one of those disorders would also be unfit to serve?

I can't tell if you're subversively trying to make Fetterman's condition seem worse by this or draw people into defending him, but yes, an adult with Down syndrome would not be fit to serve as a United States Senator. Are you serious? How would they even win the nomination of a major party in a competitive Senate race?

"Autism" is obviously different, since it refers to a spectrum of disorders, but a non-verbal severely autistic adult or one with high support needs would also be unfit. I feel like I was dosed with one of Oz's quack pills reading this.

It makes a lot more sense when you realized that despite all the talk about Saving Democracy, many of these people don't value democracy one bit. They simply see The People as a vehicle to be browbeaten into legitimizing their Correct Politics at the ballot box. Hence how everything from Dobbs to Brexit to god knows what else is a ~~~threat to democracy~~~.

[jamestroll]

Fetterman is not incapable of doing the job even if you are a Republican.

There are people with disabilities on this site, including myself, so let's not turn this into a disability bashing thread.

[This user has not been convicted of 34 felonies]

Good to know what the national media's response to a candidate with Down syndrome or autism would be. ... someone with one of those disorders would also be unfit to serve?

I can't tell if you're subversively trying to make Fetterman's condition seem worse by this or draw people into defending him, but yes, an adult with Down syndrome would not be fit to serve as a United States Senator. Are you serious? How would they even win the nomination of a major party in a competitive Senate race?

"Autism" is obviously different, since it refers to a spectrum of disorders, but a non-verbal severely autistic adult or one with high support needs would also be unfit. I feel like I was dosed with one of Oz's quack pills reading this.

Not sure if you're aware of this, but there are plenty of people with Down syndrome and Autism spectrum disorders who are perfectly high functioning and can understand and express complex emotions. We shouldn't be saying that it's not possible for someone with Down syndrome or an ASD disorder to ever be capable of holding elected office, and it absolutely should not be disqualifying in and of itself. I mean, there are plenty of politicians with dyslexia and other learning disabilities who are perfectly capable of holding office.

Obviously I'm not suggesting that someone who is non-verbal or severely autistic would want to pursue a career in politics, but if someone was on the Autism spectrum (Yuh-Line Niou comes to mind) and one of their opponents tried to say they were unfit to serve because of that? It would be completely idiotic.

Though the usual suspects coming out of the woodwork to put words in my mouth does not shock me.

[wbrocks67]

https://twitter.com/AJentleson/status/1580274502285414402