Canada General Discussion (2019-)

[harpercanuck]

andrew scheer points out the obvs fact. Green party leader liz may was arrested in BC should we freeze her assets and to anyone who donated to the greens? jagmeet singh is a terrorist financier supporting the khalistanis in india why don't we freeze his assets too. Hes already banned from entering india perhaps the indian govt should seize his familys money. I have no doubt they own land in india

[T'Chenka]

andrew scheer points out the obvs fact. Green party leader liz may was arrested in BC should we freeze her assets and to anyone who donated to the greens? jagmeet singh is a terrorist financier supporting the khalistanis in india why don't we freeze his assets too. Hes already banned from entering india perhaps the indian govt should seize his familys money. I have no doubt they own land in india

What a sad talking point...

[Vosem]

Has it actually dawned upon  Is any critic of the Canadian government's action here that  Freezing the bank accounts of The protesters Until they cease illegally trespassing and shutting down the roads as they have been for weeks  Is is an infinitely more humane and Is non violent response than the typical American version of sending in cops with truncheons and tear gas?

No, actually extrajudicially seizing people's property is a much less civilized response than arresting them and letting the judiciary decide whether they've done anything wrong. There would be far less outrage if Trudeau had done the Canadian equivalent of sending in the National Guard.

[Badger]

Has it actually dawned upon  Is any critic of the Canadian government's action here that  Freezing the bank accounts of The protesters Until they cease illegally trespassing and shutting down the roads as they have been for weeks  Is is an infinitely more humane and Is non violent response than the typical American version of sending in cops with truncheons and tear gas?

No, actually extrajudicially seizing people's property is a much less civilized response than arresting them and letting the judiciary decide whether they've done anything wrong. There would be far less outrage if Trudeau had done the Canadian equivalent of sending in the National Guard.

 Agree to disagree about which is less "civilized and" , by this I think we can agree should be defined as" the lesser of evils" .

I've actually thought about this over the last day or so and I'm now neutral at best about this action. On the one hand I do believe it is Far less potentially disastrous than the still possible measure of full bore police response,  But I'm highly concerned about the lack of mechanism for challenging any such action by the government..

Offer the recourse of some sort of administrative hearing at least, and I think it's OK. Until then though, I'm dubious.

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

In Canadian Electoral politics news, the Sasketchwan NDP yet again proves to be in total disarray. They lost a by-election to hold their northern seat of Athabasca which has never been won by a conservative party before. Much of this is down to turnout as Indegenious turnout traditional crashes during by-elections which due to the very strane polarization of northern Canada dooms the NDP chances. The Sask Party won the seat with 51% of the vote on 24% turnout .Nevertheless, it Scott Moe has decided to very much gloat about his victory.

https://twitter.com/PremierScottMoe/status/1493810155015884803

[harpercanuck]

andrew scheer points out the obvs fact. Green party leader liz may was arrested in BC should we freeze her assets and to anyone who donated to the greens? jagmeet singh is a terrorist financier supporting the khalistanis in india why don't we freeze his assets too. Hes already banned from entering india perhaps the indian govt should seize his familys money. I have no doubt they own land in india

What a sad talking point...

why don't you go tell that to the victims families of the 1985 air india attack, the worst terrorist attack on canadian soil.

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

In Canadian Electoral politics news, the Sasketchwan NDP yet again proves to be in total disarray. They lost a by-election to hold their northern seat of Athabasca which has never been won by a conservative party before. Much of this is down to turnout as Indegenious turnout traditional crashes during by-elections which due to the very strane polarization of northern Canada dooms the NDP chances. The Sask Party won the seat with 51% of the vote on 24% turnout .Nevertheless, it Scott Moe has decided to very much gloat about his victory.

https://twitter.com/PremierScottMoe/status/1493810155015884803

Apparently, the riding is almost entirely first nation with neglible white population. Apparently the Sask Party managed to win the Metis population here 95/5 thanks to their canidate

[It’s so Joever]

https://twitter.com/RebelNewsOnline/status/1494115333136867329


Trudeau is a fascist

So f**king based.

[Estrella]

https://twitter.com/RebelNewsOnline/status/1494115333136867329

Trudeau is a fascist

At this point, the interference of American far-right in Canadian politics is a national security issue and should be treated accordingly.

[DC Al Fine]

I urge people calling for the freezing of Canadian citizens bank accounts without due process of law to deal with a few hundred protesters to seriously reconsider their illiberal and authoritarian turn.

Such actions and support for them increasingly resemble the far-right authoritarians they purport to combat.

[DC Al Fine]

A Coastal GasLink pipeline (previously subject to blockades) site was violently attacked last night by approximately 20 people.

Eargerly awaiting the Prime Minister's invocation of the Emergencies Act to deal with attacks on our national infrastructure /s

[Estrella]

A Coastal GasLink pipeline (previously subject to blockades) site was violently attacked last night by approximately 20 people.

Eargerly awaiting the Prime Minister's invocation of the Emergencies Act to deal with attacks on our national infrastructure /s

If local and national police were known to be sympathetic to violent protesters and responded to a series of weeks-long blockades by inaction or giving the perpetrators hugs, if half of all donations to the Wet'suwet'en blockades came from foreign actors, if Indigenous protesters engaged in a wave of harassment and destruction of property like the one that forced the Ottawa police to create a hate crime hotline, if the attackers were confirmed to have caches of firearms and plot murders of police officers, if they had connections to violent foreign militants, then yes, Emergencies Act would be an appropriate response. Are those things happening?

[StateBoiler]

In Canadian Electoral politics news, the Sasketchwan NDP yet again proves to be in total disarray. They lost a by-election to hold their northern seat of Athabasca which has never been won by a conservative party before. Much of this is down to turnout as Indegenious turnout traditional crashes during by-elections which due to the very strane polarization of northern Canada dooms the NDP chances. The Sask Party won the seat with 51% of the vote on 24% turnout .Nevertheless, it Scott Moe has decided to very much gloat about his victory.

https://twitter.com/PremierScottMoe/status/1493810155015884803

That tweet is hardly gloating. He acknowledged the result and congratulated the new MLA from his party.

[DC Al Fine]

A Coastal GasLink pipeline (previously subject to blockades) site was violently attacked last night by approximately 20 people.

Eargerly awaiting the Prime Minister's invocation of the Emergencies Act to deal with attacks on our national infrastructure /s

If local and national police were known to be sympathetic to violent protesters and responded to a series of weeks-long blockades by inaction or giving the perpetrators hugs, if half of all donations to the Wet'suwet'en blockades came from foreign actors, if Indigenous protesters engaged in a wave of harassment and destruction of property like the one that forced the Ottawa police to create a hate crime hotline, if the attackers were confirmed to have caches of firearms and plot murders of police officers, if they had connections to violent foreign militants, then yes, Emergencies Act would be an appropriate response. Are those things happening?

To be very clear neither of the Ottawa protest nor the Coastal Gas Link incident remotely rise to the level of invoking the Emergencies Act. The previous time this act was invoked a diplomat and provincial cabinet minister had been kidnapped, nothing like that has happened in this crisis.

The actions you describe above are heinous, but they should be handled through the ordinary means our constitution and tradition has appointed; the police and courts operating with due process of law.

Take the Coutts arms cache. It sounds scary, but the police seized a mere thirteen firearms (several of which appear to be non-restricted long guns) plus assorted ammunition body armour etc. That's bad, but the police make similar sized busts frequently without requiring emergency powers. Just last month, police in my province seized a similar sized arms cache from a group of neo Nazis, complete with large amounts of ammunition and the like. They didn't require emergency powers to do deal with this group.

Civil liberties are hard to obtain and very easy to lose. Governments should only use emergency powers to override civil liberties as a last resort in extreme circumstances.

I expect politicians of all stripes to be hypocrites on this issue, but it is deeply disturbing how little it takes for many observers, both on Atlas and off to cheer on emergency powers, suspending due process of law, immunity for agents of the state etc. When Trudeau Sr. invoked the War Measures Act, then-NDP leader Tommy Douglas decried the act as "taking a sledgehammer to crack a peanut" and a "Black Friday for civil liberties". Where is that ethos today?

How far much of the progressive left has fallen that they are willing to sell their civil liberties birthright for a pottage of protection against a few hundred truckers.

[Estrella]

A Coastal GasLink pipeline (previously subject to blockades) site was violently attacked last night by approximately 20 people.

Eargerly awaiting the Prime Minister's invocation of the Emergencies Act to deal with attacks on our national infrastructure /s

If local and national police were known to be sympathetic to violent protesters and responded to a series of weeks-long blockades by inaction or giving the perpetrators hugs, if half of all donations to the Wet'suwet'en blockades came from foreign actors, if Indigenous protesters engaged in a wave of harassment and destruction of property like the one that forced the Ottawa police to create a hate crime hotline, if the attackers were confirmed to have caches of firearms and plot murders of police officers, if they had connections to violent foreign militants, then yes, Emergencies Act would be an appropriate response. Are those things happening?

To be very clear neither of the Ottawa protest nor the Coastal Gas Link incident remotely rise to the level of invoking the Emergencies Act. The previous time this act was invoked a diplomat and provincial cabinet minister had been kidnapped, nothing like that has happened in this crisis.

The actions you describe above are heinous, but they should be handled through the ordinary means our constitution and tradition has appointed; the police and courts operating with due process of law.

Take the Coutts arms cache. It sounds scary, but the police seized a mere thirteen firearms (several of which appear to be non-restricted long guns) plus assorted ammunition body armour etc. That's bad, but the police make similar sized busts frequently without requiring emergency powers. Just last month, police in my province seized a similar sized arms cache from a group of neo Nazis, complete with large amounts of ammunition and the like. They didn't require emergency powers to do deal with this group.

Civil liberties are hard to obtain and very easy to lose. Governments should only use emergency powers to override civil liberties as a last resort in extreme circumstances.

I expect politicians of all stripes to be hypocrites on this issue, but it is deeply disturbing how little it takes for many observers, both on Atlas and off to cheer on emergency powers, suspending due process of law, immunity for agents of the state etc. When Trudeau Sr. invoked the War Measures Act, then-NDP leader Tommy Douglas decried the act as "taking a sledgehammer to crack a peanut" and a "Black Friday for civil liberties". Where is that ethos today?

How far much of the progressive left has fallen that they are willing to sell their civil liberties birthright for a pottage of protection against a few hundred truckers.

I guess you might be right about that. I definitely appreciate that you have principles _{unlike some other people here}

I'd still argue that this case may be different because of police bias. It's not as bad as the US, but it's clear that they're significantly harsher on left-wing/anti-pipeline protesters at best and openly racist towards indigenous people at worst, while they treat truckers (and Proud Boys, etc) with kid gloves. Given the recent political drama at Ottawa city hall, I wouldn't be surprised if they straight-up acted, or rather did not act on their own. Maybe this makes using the Act more justified, maybe it's an argument against it. I guess it's both.

[StateBoiler]

How far much of the progressive left has fallen that they are willing to sell their civil liberties birthright for a pottage of protection against a few hundred truckers.

Sign of the times. Conservatives and progressives have both become evil groups of people willing to throw their principles in the trash as long as it hurts people they don't like. Ends justify the means.

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

In Canadian Electoral politics news, the Sasketchwan NDP yet again proves to be in total disarray. They lost a by-election to hold their northern seat of Athabasca which has never been won by a conservative party before. Much of this is down to turnout as Indegenious turnout traditional crashes during by-elections which due to the very strane polarization of northern Canada dooms the NDP chances. The Sask Party won the seat with 51% of the vote on 24% turnout .Nevertheless, it Scott Moe has decided to very much gloat about his victory.

https://twitter.com/PremierScottMoe/status/1493810155015884803

I've also heard people float the idea that the Sask Party won because it's only a by-election and it wasn't going to change the government, but having an MLA in the governing party could strengthen the voice of Northern Saskatchewan. I don't know if this narrative is true, but it would make sense. From a purely pragmatic viewpoint, when you're one of the most remote and impoverished regions of Canada, electing an MLA who will sit in the government's caucus for the next three years gives you greater representation and increases the chances of goodies being thrown your way.

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

Something I find worrying, both from a small-l liberal and small-c conservative perspective, is how the most substantial actions on civil liberties taken by governments over recent years have also been the ones that largely happened out of the PMO and/or Premiers' Offices. I know the Emergencies Act and this whole business of seizing people's bank accounts will go through the legislative process, and most likely pass. I also understand that a lot of what was done was justified as public health measures, and a lot of it was justifiable. But something seems off with our political process, that minor bills on pretty unsubstantial change can take months to come into effect, but a major shift in the relationship between the state and the citizen has happened largely unilaterally.

[Thomas D]

https://twitter.com/OttawaPolice/status/1494797253554450433

[DC Al Fine]

https://twitter.com/CanadianPolling/status/1494793407532781573?t=j8f6TXjePQwRMxJ...

Ahem

[Central Lake]

https://theupheaval.substack.com/p/reality-honks-back?utm_source=url

[Central Lake]

Also btw my community in Sri Lanka is associated with a political party called the Ceylon Workers Congress.

Even though most of these events happened before I was born, I have always felt affinity and sympathy towards negotiations, labour strikes, civil disobedience, etc.

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

In Canadian Electoral politics news, the Sasketchwan NDP yet again proves to be in total disarray. They lost a by-election to hold their northern seat of Athabasca which has never been won by a conservative party before. Much of this is down to turnout as Indegenious turnout traditional crashes during by-elections which due to the very strane polarization of northern Canada dooms the NDP chances. The Sask Party won the seat with 51% of the vote on 24% turnout .Nevertheless, it Scott Moe has decided to very much gloat about his victory.

https://twitter.com/PremierScottMoe/status/1493810155015884803

That tweet is hardly gloating. He acknowledged the result and congratulated the new MLA from his party.

Look at his other tweet. Not even calling him Dr, talk about a snub. Anyway in other news Dr Melie is out as NDP leader in Saskatchewan
.https://twitter.com/PremierScottMoe/status/1493961003230392325?t=ZuYolmReMl_E_zb...

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

https://twitter.com/CanadianPolling/status/1494793407532781573?t=j8f6TXjePQwRMxJ...
Ahem

Wow, that's a pretty big movement. Although it probably reflects the government's handling of recent events more than the CPC getting more popular.

Interestingly, the CPC+PPC vote in that poll is 45%...I'm a little skeptical of that, considering the Canadian right hasn't won that big a share of the vote since 1984.

Icing on the cake: The Liberals would still win the election according to Mainstreet's projections. I'm guessing they're just plugging in current numbers into 2021 breakdowns, and real elections don't work like that. But man, the fact that it's mathematically possible to win an election by 8 points but lose the seat count by 20 is...something. Conservatives need to figure out how to distribute their vote more efficiently, and Liberals need to be less smug talking about how the electoral college distorts the popular.

[harpercanuck]

https://twitter.com/CanadianPolling/status/1494793407532781573?t=j8f6TXjePQwRMxJ...
Ahem

Wow, that's a pretty big movement. Although it probably reflects the government's handling of recent events more than the CPC getting more popular.

Interestingly, the CPC+PPC vote in that poll is 45%...I'm a little skeptical of that, considering the Canadian right hasn't won that big a share of the vote since 1984.

Icing on the cake: The Liberals would still win the election according to Mainstreet's projections. I'm guessing they're just plugging in current numbers into 2021 breakdowns, and real elections don't work like that. But man, the fact that it's mathematically possible to win an election by 8 points but lose the seat count by 20 is...something. Conservatives need to figure out how to distribute their vote more efficiently, and Liberals need to be less smug talking about how the electoral college distorts the popular.

joke tier poll. canada is a messed up place another election would yeild the same 33-31% result with libs 155 ish and tories 123 ish