NY: Trump on Trial!

[Inmate Trump]

I don't think an indictment will change very many votes in either direction.  Here's why:

I think I mostly agree.

However (and this is mostly meaningless in the grand scheme) I did hear a very conservative co-worker today saying she hopes Trump drops out of the race because she thinks he’ll only cost the Republicans. This is a woman who has proudly supported Trump all along.

[emailking]

Trump Grand Jury Could Hear From Critic of Prosecution’s Star Witness
The grand jury considering the hush-money case against Mr. Trump might hear the testimony of lawyer Robert J. Costello, a critic of the ex-president’s fixer.

A Manhattan grand jury that is expected to vote soon on whether to indict Donald J. Trump may hear testimony Monday attacking the prosecution’s star witness, according to people with knowledge of the matter.

The testimony would come from a lawyer, Robert J. Costello, who would appear at the request of Mr. Trump’s lawyers, the people said. Mr. Costello was once a legal adviser to Michael D. Cohen, Mr. Trump’s former fixer, who has been a key witness for the Manhattan district attorney’s office.

Mr. Costello and Mr. Cohen had a falling out, and Mr. Costello would appear solely to undermine Mr. Cohen’s credibility, the people said.

Under New York law, a person who is expected to be indicted can request that a witness appear on his or her behalf. Mr. Trump’s lawyers have asked that Mr. Costello testify, but the final decision rests with the grand jury; it is unclear whether they have made a decision. The grand jury has been hearing evidence about the former president’s involvement in a hush money payment to a porn star.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/19/nyregion/trump-indictment-costello-cohen.html


Also Michael Cohen said today he's being called back to the grand jury tomorrow (again) as a rebuttal witness, probably to this.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

I really don't understand why this is such a huge deal for some or why they're triggered. Just don't get it. Regardless of whether you like Trump's policies or not, at this point you need to accept that there's very strong evidence he broke multiple laws and on issues that aren't minor.

If he's really innocent as claims, let an investigation and trial happen. Whether he's a former POTUS or not is irrelevant. The law is the law. If anything, politicians should be held to higher standard that average Joe's, not to a lesser standard.

1) It's a cult.

2) Not being held accountable for their own abuses is a key part of the modern Republican identity.

3) Republicans political (and increasingly, personal as well) identities are built on a tower of lies. If they admit that any of their core beliefs are false, that risks the whole imaginary edifice collapsing.

4) Trump is deliberately triggering them. That's what his videos and tweets - helpfully spread by first the media, and then virtually everyone (I'm guilty here as well) - are designed to do. His supporters have been conditioned over many years to be triggered, and he's pulling that trigger as hard as he can.

[Tekken_Guy]

One difference between this and January 6th that may help Trump is that I think mainstream GOP politicians didn't yet appreciate on January 6th just how much pressure they were under from their primary voters to stick with Trump no matter what (see Graham's "count me out" speech from that day).

The impeachment vote says otherwise.

[Ferguson97]

I really don't understand why this is such a huge deal for some or why they're triggered. Just don't get it. Regardless of whether you like Trump's policies or not, at this point you need to accept that there's very strong evidence he broke multiple laws and on issues that aren't minor.

If he's really innocent as claims, let an investigation and trial happen. Whether he's a former POTUS or not is irrelevant. The law is the law. If anything, politicians should be held to higher standard that average Joe's, not to a lesser standard.

There's basically three kinds of conservatives responding to this.

Some, like OSR, fundamentally believe that the president should be above the law. He agrees that Trump broke the law, but thinks that he should get a free pass just because he was the president. These people are the "wishy-washy faux Never Trumpers".

Others sincerely believe that even if Trump is completely innocent of all crimes, and that any efforts to prosecute him are politically motivated and that the charges are 100% fabricated. These people are the "true believers".

And then a lot of them know that he's guilty, but don't care because they like Trump and agree with his politics. They're closer to Republican loyalists than Trump loyalists, and will change their arguments in half a second if they think that this is the way that the party is moving. They make similar arguments as the true believers group, but deep down know that Trump is guilty. They just don't care. They don't care about institutions or principles, all they care about is advancing the conservative agenda. These people are "the hacks".

[Badger]

Yeah it’s not as simple as that . It’s easy to say this but reality is different than theory .

You know who agrees with me on this , Barack Obama

Obama was wrong.

I disagree as arresting Bush and Cheney would have not been good for our nation .

You keep saying that, but beyond ramblings of "muh precedent" you failed even begin stating a coherent reason why.

Either presidents are subject to the law or they're not. Considering that the Atlanta and New York investigations are only indirectly related to Trump's role as president, your level of arguing President should be above the law except if it violates National Security interests would basically mean that they could get away with Petty embezzlement, assault, and anything else unless it involves something Watergate or January 6th level. If anything, the inverse is true. If somehow the Atlanta and New York City investigations in your mind are directly related to his being president, and supposedly the other party will play politics likewise, then you really don't believe presidents should be beholden to the law. You say it, but you spend much much more time decrying that view then supporting it. And just repeating on your not ending Loop of my president and Country needs it isn't going to convince anyone other than yourself.

[Badger]

https://twitter.com/DougJBalloon/status/1637282221932560384

Saw this and it kind of crystallized something I've been mulling over.  I don't think an indictment will change very many votes in either direction.  Here's why:

Who will change their mind to vote for Trump solely because he's been indicted?  If someone wasn't already going to vote for him, an indictment is surely no plus.  Perhaps there are a few people who might do it as a root-for-the-underdog thing (although the idea of Trump as an underdog in life is rather laughable), but it's got to be a very small number.

Who will change their mind to NOT vote for Trump because of the indictment?  Most people who have stuck with him this long are solidly behind him regardless of any of his negatives, as in his famous "I could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue" quote.  He won't lose many, if any, diehard supporters over this.

The only place I can see it making a difference is among truly undecided voters, in either the primary or general election, trying to make up their minds at the last minute, and this could be the straw that tips them into voting for someone else or just sitting out.

On balance, I see at most a small negative electoral effect for Trump.

I think you're misconstrued too much of what people in the general voting populist versus the GOP Primary populace believe. This will be a boost for him in the primaries, but a negative for him in the general election.

[Badger]

I really don't understand why this is such a huge deal for some or why they're triggered. Just don't get it. Regardless of whether you like Trump's policies or not, at this point you need to accept that there's very strong evidence he broke multiple laws and on issues that aren't minor.

If he's really innocent as claims, let an investigation and trial happen. Whether he's a former POTUS or not is irrelevant. The law is the law. If anything, politicians should be held to higher standard that average Joe's, not to a lesser standard.

There's basically three kinds of conservatives responding to this.

Some, like OSR, fundamentally believe that the president should be above the law. He agrees that Trump broke the law, but thinks that he should get a free pass just because he was the president. These people are the "wishy-washy faux Never Trumpers".

Others sincerely believe that even if Trump is completely innocent of all crimes, and that any efforts to prosecute him are politically motivated and that the charges are 100% fabricated. These people are the "true believers".

And then a lot of them know that he's guilty, but don't care because they like Trump and agree with his politics. They're closer to Republican loyalists than Trump loyalists, and will change their arguments in half a second if they think that this is the way that the party is moving. They make similar arguments as the true believers group, but deep down know that Trump is guilty. They just don't care. They don't care about institutions or principles, all they care about is advancing the conservative agenda. These people are "the hacks".

I think you'll find that categories 1 and 3 have about a 98% overlap.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Yeah it’s not as simple as that . It’s easy to say this but reality is different than theory .

You know who agrees with me on this , Barack Obama

Obama was wrong.

I disagree as arresting Bush and Cheney would have not been good for our nation .

Locking up criminals is good for our nation. War criminals especially.

[I Will Not Be Wrong]

https://thehill.com/homenews/3907716-haberman-trump-very-anxious-about-potential-indictment-in-new-york/

Trump is nervous, according to Maggie Haberman.

“Yes, two things can be true at once. He is aware that there are reasons to believe this could help him politically … But he does not want to face getting arrested, which is what happens when you get indicted. You get fingerprinted. You get brought in. You have to ask for bail. None of that is something that he is excited about,” Haberman said.

[Ferguson97]

https://thehill.com/homenews/3907716-haberman-trump-very-anxious-about-potential-indictment-in-new-york/

Trump is nervous, according to Maggie Haberman.

“Yes, two things can be true at once. He is aware that there are reasons to believe this could help him politically … But he does not want to face getting arrested, which is what happens when you get indicted. You get fingerprinted. You get brought in. You have to ask for bail. None of that is something that he is excited about,” Haberman said.

So dumb question, how is this going to work since New York abolished cash bail? Could Bragg really hold Trump until the trial, or is there some mechanism that Trump could do to get freed?

[emailking]

The judge doesn't have to set bail and I don't think will.

[SteveRogers]

The judge doesn't have to set bail and I don't think will.

For a financial crime with no prior criminal history? The Judge will absolutely set bail. The real question is what bond conditions the judge will set (travel restrictions, etc.).

[emailking]

What I mean is he can be released without having to post bail, not that he will be held without bail.

[Virginiá]

https://mobile.twitter.com/RadioFreeTom/status/1637140326426050563

[emailking]

https://twitter.com/AWeissmann_/status/1637682114802905090

Trump has been "truthing" in all caps all weekend.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Trump is only going to get more unhinged as things get worse for him.

[Sir Mohamed]

Trump is only going to get more unhinged as things get worse for him.

It's already comical how his entire post is in all caps.

[BG-NY]

Trumpworld already has plans to hit back. Good segment on Bannon about their plans to organize and retaliate.

[Gass3268]

Trumpworld not happy with DeSantis.

https://twitter.com/alivitali/status/1637844683203174412?s=20

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1637817111216107522

The brainworms have indeed gotten to Tenney.

[Ferguson97]

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1637817111216107522

The brainworms have indeed gotten to Tenney.

Good to know that I can just not show up in court and everything will be fine

[ꙮ]

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1637817111216107522

The brainworms have indeed gotten to Tenney.

Gotten? When weren’t they there?

[Ferguson97]

OSR be like

https://twitter.com/NGrossman81/status/1637119106557026304

[T'Chenka]

Assuming nobody is killed or badly injured, I really want to see Trump arrested... primarily to see the right wing freakout when it happens.