MA-SEN Megathread: Senator Markey wins

[KaiserDave]

All the claps, all the applause.

[Ancestral Republican]

Too much quoted text --Mod

Good post!

[Not Me, Us]

Too much quoted text --Mod

Leonard likes this post!

[voice_of_resistance]

too much quoted text

I like this post! And I think many of the people of Massachusetts like it as well! MillenialModerate is being smarmy and disingenuous with his justifications here, and if he doesn't like the truth that Joe Kennedy is sucking up a veritable amount of political oxygen in the moment to primary a perfectly fine senator with a large amount of experience, he can go jump in the harbor.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Maybe the reason why Kennedy went down so fast in polls during the Harris Veep selection,  was that he was a 2024 Prez candidate,  now that Harris is Veep, she is the heir apparent to Biden. It's not a coincidence that his polls went down at the same time Harris was selected

[LtNOWIS]

It's totally appropriate for Hoyer and Pelosi to support one of their caucus members over an incumbent Senator. They're demonstrating loyalty to their fellow Representatives, instead of deferring to the upper house of Congress.

[YE]

It's totally appropriate for Hoyer and Pelosi to support one of their caucus members over an incumbent Senator. They're demonstrating loyalty to their fellow Representatives, instead of deferring to the upper house of Congress.

So if one of their House members primaries Biden, it’d be appropriate for Hoyer and Pelosi to support the House member?

[GoTfan]

If you're going to carry on about Markey not being an actual progressive, then can we perhaps talk about how Kennedy ia running to Markey's right on the environment? The literal writer of the GND. Can't be much more of a progressive on the environment than that.

Also, you don't get to say you're losing intelligence whenever you hear someone praise Markey because you're referring to voters in your own state as stupid and a joke because they haven't fallen for the Kennedy bollocks again.

You make a point about service and now much his family has given to the country. Yeah, okay, let me tell you about a guy named Hubert Humphrey, who was probably the guy most responsible for dragging the Democratic Party kicking and screaming to the left on civil rights, and then got rolled by a Kennedy machine that courted southern segregationists. Or a man named Lyndon Johnson, who actually managed to get both the CRA and VRA passed while JFK sat on his hands, not to manage the fustercluck with James Meredith.

No politician is completely shiny. Hell, no person is. Yet to say that the Kennedys are above that is the height of stupidity.

[MillennialModerate]

If you're going to carry on about Markey not being an actual progressive, then can we perhaps talk about how Kennedy ia running to Markey's right on the environment? The literal writer of the GND. Can't be much more of a progressive on the environment than that.

Also, you don't get to say you're losing intelligence whenever you hear someone praise Markey because you're referring to voters in your own state as stupid and a joke because they haven't fallen for the Kennedy bollocks again.

You make a point about service and now much his family has given to the country. Yeah, okay, let me tell you about a guy named Hubert Humphrey, who was probably the guy most responsible for dragging the Democratic Party kicking and screaming to the left on civil rights, and then got rolled by a Kennedy machine that courted southern segregationists. Or a man named Lyndon Johnson, who actually managed to get both the CRA and VRA passed while JFK sat on his hands, not to manage the fustercluck with James Meredith.

No politician is completely shiny. Hell, no person is. Yet to say that the Kennedys are above that is the height of stupidity.

Your assessment of the Kennedy’s on the race issue is laughable.

First, JFK made the decision to reach out to MLK’s wife when Nixon refused because of political ramifications.

In the early days of the administration there was some apathy on civil rights because JFK wanted his agenda passed but after tons of upheaval and disgusting acts of prejudice - JFK insisted on discussing the matter on national television and effectively putting the South in play for 64. Bobby took up the matter at justice in a way that had never been done before. There’s a reason John Lewis was such a staunch supporter of the Kennedy’s.

Your point about LBJ passing CRA and VRA while JFK sat on his hands is so ridiculous - JFK was dead. From the time sufficient momentum built up he was given a matter of months to pass such things. LBJ was able to pass it in such a short time due to the fact he used JFK’s memory to impose pressure on those who who didn’t want to vote for it.

No politician is perfect but it’s hard to get much better than John F Kennedy.

[KaiserDave]

If you're going to carry on about Markey not being an actual progressive, then can we perhaps talk about how Kennedy ia running to Markey's right on the environment? The literal writer of the GND. Can't be much more of a progressive on the environment than that.

Also, you don't get to say you're losing intelligence whenever you hear someone praise Markey because you're referring to voters in your own state as stupid and a joke because they haven't fallen for the Kennedy bollocks again.

You make a point about service and now much his family has given to the country. Yeah, okay, let me tell you about a guy named Hubert Humphrey, who was probably the guy most responsible for dragging the Democratic Party kicking and screaming to the left on civil rights, and then got rolled by a Kennedy machine that courted southern segregationists. Or a man named Lyndon Johnson, who actually managed to get both the CRA and VRA passed while JFK sat on his hands, not to manage the fustercluck with James Meredith.

No politician is completely shiny. Hell, no person is. Yet to say that the Kennedys are above that is the height of stupidity.

Your assessment of the Kennedy’s on the race issue is laughable.

First, JFK made the decision to reach out to MLK’s wife when Nixon refused because of political ramifications.

In the early days of the administration there was some apathy on civil rights because JFK wanted his agenda passed but after tons of upheaval and disgusting acts of prejudice - JFK insisted on discussing the matter on national television and effectively putting the South in play for 64. Bobby took up the matter at justice in a way that had never been done before. There’s a reason John Lewis was such a staunch supporter of the Kennedy’s.

Your point about LBJ passing CRA and VRA while JFK sat on his hands is so ridiculous - JFK was dead. From the time sufficient momentum built up he was given a matter of months to pass such things. LBJ was able to pass it in such a short time due to the fact he used JFK’s memory to impose pressure on those who who didn’t want to vote for it.

No politician is perfect but it’s hard to get much better than John F Kennedy.

Even if I may disagree with you, I have the good sense to say that JFK is COMPLETELY irrelevant to this race. It’s JKIII who disagrees, trying to use his last name for a blatantly opportunist adventure.

[MillennialModerate]

Okay? Yeah, those all suck but he's clearly changed course, proven himself to be a great ally for the State of Massachusetts to have, & stood on the side of working families much moreso than JKIII.

So we’re arguing about people being politically prudent over personal conviction. And your response is “clearly he changed course”. YES BECAUSE IT HELPS HIM POLITICALLY. The hypocrisy by you is rich considering this is the kind of comment you’d rake me and my support for JK over the coals for but with EM it’s just a genuine change of heart? Please

[brucejoel99]

Okay? Yeah, those all suck but he's clearly changed course, proven himself to be a great ally for the State of Massachusetts to have, & stood on the side of working families much moreso than JKIII.

So we’re arguing about people being politically prudent over personal conviction. And your response is “clearly he changed course”. YES BECAUSE IT HELPS HIM POLITICALLY. The hypocrisy by you is rich considering this is the kind of comment you’d rake me and my support for JK over the coals for but with EM it’s just a genuine change of heart? Please

How convenient of you to just ignore literally everything else in my post that called out your irrational support for JKIII. Just goes to show that literally nothing will stop you from continuing to worship at the altar of JKIII while thinking that Markey is the literal spawn of satan when it has been definitively shown to you time & time again that the latter's record is clearly & infinitely better than the former's. That's what's f**king rich.

[new_patomic]

Kennedy is now accusing Markey of 'weaponizing' his family and questioning their integrity, while also appropriating their words.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/512310-kennedy-markey-is-weaponizing-my-familys-history?

[KaiserDave]

Okay? Yeah, those all suck but he's clearly changed course, proven himself to be a great ally for the State of Massachusetts to have, & stood on the side of working families much moreso than JKIII.

So we’re arguing about people being politically prudent over personal conviction. And your response is “clearly he changed course”. YES BECAUSE IT HELPS HIM POLITICALLY. The hypocrisy by you is rich considering this is the kind of comment you’d rake me and my support for JK over the coals for but with EM it’s just a genuine change of heart? Please

Weren't you a diehard Biden supporter in the primaries? Support politicians who change course should be nothing new to you.

That being said Markey has been entirely consistent on environmental priorities and legislative diligence.

[brucejoel99]

Kennedy is now accusing Markey of 'weaponizing' his family and questioning their integrity, while also appropriating their words.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/512310-kennedy-markey-is-weaponizing-my-familys-history?

JKIII likes to use his name when doing so benefits him but gets pissy when he's called out for using his name to benefit him? Now, that's some prime /r/SelfAwarewolves material right there. After all, nobody knows how to 'weaponize' their family history & name to get to where they are today better than a member of the Kennedy family.

Honestly, though, it must be so rough for JKIII to be a Kennedy. I mean, all that free name-recognition & he still ends up being so milquetoast & unremarkable. No wonder he'll soon be - god willing - the first ever Kennedy to lose an election in the state of Massachusetts.

[GoTfan]

If you're going to carry on about Markey not being an actual progressive, then can we perhaps talk about how Kennedy ia running to Markey's right on the environment? The literal writer of the GND. Can't be much more of a progressive on the environment than that.

Also, you don't get to say you're losing intelligence whenever you hear someone praise Markey because you're referring to voters in your own state as stupid and a joke because they haven't fallen for the Kennedy bollocks again.

You make a point about service and now much his family has given to the country. Yeah, okay, let me tell you about a guy named Hubert Humphrey, who was probably the guy most responsible for dragging the Democratic Party kicking and screaming to the left on civil rights, and then got rolled by a Kennedy machine that courted southern segregationists. Or a man named Lyndon Johnson, who actually managed to get both the CRA and VRA passed while JFK sat on his hands, not to manage the fustercluck with James Meredith.

No politician is completely shiny. Hell, no person is. Yet to say that the Kennedys are above that is the height of stupidity.

Your assessment of the Kennedy’s on the race issue is laughable.

First, JFK made the decision to reach out to MLK’s wife when Nixon refused because of political ramifications.

In the early days of the administration there was some apathy on civil rights because JFK wanted his agenda passed but after tons of upheaval and disgusting acts of prejudice - JFK insisted on discussing the matter on national television and effectively putting the South in play for 64. Bobby took up the matter at justice in a way that had never been done before. There’s a reason John Lewis was such a staunch supporter of the Kennedy’s.

Your point about LBJ passing CRA and VRA while JFK sat on his hands is so ridiculous - JFK was dead. From the time sufficient momentum built up he was given a matter of months to pass such things. LBJ was able to pass it in such a short time due to the fact he used JFK’s memory to impose pressure on those who who didn’t want to vote for it.

No politician is perfect but it’s hard to get much better than John F Kennedy.

So you deny that they sought the support of southern segregationists in the 1960 election?

And it is far from laughable mate. Larry Tye's excellent book goes into more detail about it.

[Calthrina950]

Kennedy is now accusing Markey of 'weaponizing' his family and questioning their integrity, while also appropriating their words.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/512310-kennedy-markey-is-weaponizing-my-familys-history?

Kennedy seems to be running one of the worst campaigns of any candidate, primary or general, in this election. He knows that he is trailing in the polls, and is now resorting to personal attacks in an attempt to revive his position.

[new_patomic]

Kennedy is now accusing Markey of 'weaponizing' his family and questioning their integrity, while also appropriating their words.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/512310-kennedy-markey-is-weaponizing-my-familys-history?

Kennedy seems to be running one of the worst campaigns of any candidate, primary or general, in this election. He knows that he is trailing in the polls, and is now resorting to personal attacks in an attempt to revive his position.

One does wonder how much of this comes down to the pandemic, and it sending most of the campaign online.

But really, it just seems Kennedy never found his reason for being. Was it because Markey was a wayward representative and spent too much time in D.C., or was it that Kennedy would have a bigger national presence than Markey given how much he's campaigned for out-of-state Democrats. Is he an advocate for generational change, or a pleasant throwback for older more nostalgic Democrats. None of these are necessarily exclusive to one another, you can have more than one argument, but I don't think he ever really settled on a central theme that didn't amount to "I'd be better."

[Calthrina950]

Kennedy is now accusing Markey of 'weaponizing' his family and questioning their integrity, while also appropriating their words.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/512310-kennedy-markey-is-weaponizing-my-familys-history?

Kennedy seems to be running one of the worst campaigns of any candidate, primary or general, in this election. He knows that he is trailing in the polls, and is now resorting to personal attacks in an attempt to revive his position.

One does wonder how much of this comes down to the pandemic, and it sending most of the campaign online.

But really, it just seems Kennedy never found his reason for being. Was it because Markey was a wayward representative and spent too much time in D.C., or was it that Kennedy would have a bigger national presence than Markey given how much he's campaigned for out-of-state Democrats. Is he an advocate for generational change, or a pleasant throwback for older more nostalgic Democrats. None of these are necessarily exclusive to one another, you can have more than one argument, but I don't think he ever really settled on a central theme that didn't amount to "I'd be better."

I certainly agree, and even without the pandemic, I doubt that his campaign would be much better, given this fundamental flaw which you identified. Just look at Markey's most recent ad which was posted on here. Agree with him or not, you have to acknowledge that he has settled upon a cohesive and engaging narrative, and he has managed to effectively rebut Kennedy's attacks against him without getting into the gutter. Kennedy has relied too much on his last name, and it's clear that in this day and age, voters aren't buying such a strategy anymore. All the Kennedys of the older generation are gone and in the ground-the last of the siblings of JFK, RFK, and EMK died just a few months ago-and JPK III's attempt to tie himself to them is floundering.

[new_patomic]

Kennedy is now accusing Markey of 'weaponizing' his family and questioning their integrity, while also appropriating their words.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/512310-kennedy-markey-is-weaponizing-my-familys-history?

Kennedy seems to be running one of the worst campaigns of any candidate, primary or general, in this election. He knows that he is trailing in the polls, and is now resorting to personal attacks in an attempt to revive his position.

One does wonder how much of this comes down to the pandemic, and it sending most of the campaign online.

But really, it just seems Kennedy never found his reason for being. Was it because Markey was a wayward representative and spent too much time in D.C., or was it that Kennedy would have a bigger national presence than Markey given how much he's campaigned for out-of-state Democrats. Is he an advocate for generational change, or a pleasant throwback for older more nostalgic Democrats. None of these are necessarily exclusive to one another, you can have more than one argument, but I don't think he ever really settled on a central theme that didn't amount to "I'd be better."

I certainly agree, and even without the pandemic, I doubt that his campaign would be much better, given this fundamental flaw which you identified. Just look at Markey's most recent ad which was posted on here. Agree with him or not, you have to acknowledge that he has settled upon a cohesive and engaging narrative, and he has managed to effectively rebut Kennedy's attacks against him without getting into the gutter. Kennedy has relied too much on his last name, and it's clear that in this day and age, voters aren't buying such a strategy anymore. All the Kennedys of the older generation are gone and in the ground-the last of the siblings of JFK, RFK, and EMK died just a few months ago-and JFK III's attempt to tie himself to them is floundering.

The campaign apparatus has certainly looked... wanting.

The Boston Globe doesn't endorse you, okay, that's not great.

But attacking it for having "disproportionately white, well-off, well-educated readers" was, uh, a choice.

[Calthrina950]

Kennedy is now accusing Markey of 'weaponizing' his family and questioning their integrity, while also appropriating their words.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/512310-kennedy-markey-is-weaponizing-my-familys-history?

Kennedy seems to be running one of the worst campaigns of any candidate, primary or general, in this election. He knows that he is trailing in the polls, and is now resorting to personal attacks in an attempt to revive his position.

One does wonder how much of this comes down to the pandemic, and it sending most of the campaign online.

But really, it just seems Kennedy never found his reason for being. Was it because Markey was a wayward representative and spent too much time in D.C., or was it that Kennedy would have a bigger national presence than Markey given how much he's campaigned for out-of-state Democrats. Is he an advocate for generational change, or a pleasant throwback for older more nostalgic Democrats. None of these are necessarily exclusive to one another, you can have more than one argument, but I don't think he ever really settled on a central theme that didn't amount to "I'd be better."

I certainly agree, and even without the pandemic, I doubt that his campaign would be much better, given this fundamental flaw which you identified. Just look at Markey's most recent ad which was posted on here. Agree with him or not, you have to acknowledge that he has settled upon a cohesive and engaging narrative, and he has managed to effectively rebut Kennedy's attacks against him without getting into the gutter. Kennedy has relied too much on his last name, and it's clear that in this day and age, voters aren't buying such a strategy anymore. All the Kennedys of the older generation are gone and in the ground-the last of the siblings of JFK, RFK, and EMK died just a few months ago-and JFK III's attempt to tie himself to them is floundering.

The campaign apparatus has certainly looked... wanting.

The Boston Globe doesn't endorse you, okay, that's not great.

But attacking it for having "disproportionately white, well-off, well-educated readers" was, uh, a choice.

Certainly true. And I almost forgot that RFK's widow Ethel (JPK III's grandmother) is still alive. But this has little effect on the basic point which I was making. If JPK III cannot defeat Markey, then would he be able to defeat Ayanna Pressley down the line, when Elizabeth Warren either retires or is named to Biden's cabinet? Or when Markey does actually retire in 2026? I highly doubt it.

[Dipper Josh]

The Morse internal today had Markey up 43-36 in MA-01, the Richard Neal internal from a couple months ago (according to Zaybay) had Kennedy up 20 points in the district.

Obviously small scale internals aren't the most accurate but that is hard to ignore.

[GeneralMacArthur]

Kennedy hasn't run a great campaign, but Markey's campaign has been despicable.

He's been turning this race into a referendum on the Kennedy family and allied himself with these absolute assholes on the far-left who act as his shock troops doing everything they can to trash JKIII and the Kennedys as a whole.  Most of them had no idea who Kennedy or Markey were three months ago and now they're turned "Vote for Markey" into a progressive litmus test.

And you want to talk personal attacks?  Markey fired first.  But really, he's been firing throughout this campaign by letting Rose Twitter do the dirty work of oppo and character assassination against JKIII.

Such a shame that JKIII fell into this bear trap.  He was a rising star in the party, and ordinarily, running a primary campaign against a 74-year-old incumbent who's lost touch with his district is something we're cool with.  Right, AOC and Cori Bush fans?

Unfortunately, Markey used this destructive, divisive strategy, and now even if JKIII wins his career is going to be forever kneecapped by the relentless demonization and character assassination he's endured from the progressive left, for nothing other than the crime of challenging The Great Ed Markey, who I repeat, none of these people actually knows anything about other than that he's AOC's buddy.  Imagine if someone told them he voted for the Iraq War.  According to Bernie, that's a disqualifying mistake.

[GlobeSoc]

Kennedy hasn't run a great campaign, but Markey's campaign has been despicable.

He's been turning this race into a referendum on the Kennedy family and allied himself with these absolute assholes on the far-left who act as his shock troops doing everything they can to trash JKIII and the Kennedys as a whole.  Most of them had no idea who Kennedy or Markey were three months ago and now they're turned "Vote for Markey" into a progressive litmus test.

And you want to talk personal attacks?  Markey fired first.  But really, he's been firing throughout this campaign by letting Rose Twitter do the dirty work of oppo and character assassination against JKIII.

Such a shame that JKIII fell into this bear trap.  He was a rising star in the party, and ordinarily, running a primary campaign against a 74-year-old incumbent who's lost touch with his district is something we're cool with.  Right, AOC and Cori Bush fans?

Unfortunately, Markey used this destructive, divisive strategy, and now even if JKIII wins his career is going to be forever kneecapped by the relentless demonization and character assassination he's endured from the progressive left, for nothing other than the crime of challenging The Great Ed Markey, who I repeat, none of these people actually knows anything about other than that he's AOC's buddy.  Imagine if someone told them he voted for the Iraq War.  According to Bernie, that's a disqualifying mistake.

he's the great ed markey because if he wins its because of us and he'll owe us some votes on great progressive legislation

[Not Me, Us]

Kennedy hasn't run a great campaign, but Markey's campaign has been despicable.

He's been turning this race into a referendum on the Kennedy family and allied himself with these absolute assholes on the far-left who act as his shock troops doing everything they can to trash JKIII and the Kennedys as a whole.  Most of them had no idea who Kennedy or Markey were three months ago and now they're turned "Vote for Markey" into a progressive litmus test.

And you want to talk personal attacks?  Markey fired first.  But really, he's been firing throughout this campaign by letting Rose Twitter do the dirty work of oppo and character assassination against JKIII.

Such a shame that JKIII fell into this bear trap.  He was a rising star in the party, and ordinarily, running a primary campaign against a 74-year-old incumbent who's lost touch with his district is something we're cool with.  Right, AOC and Cori Bush fans?

Unfortunately, Markey used this destructive, divisive strategy, and now even if JKIII wins his career is going to be forever kneecapped by the relentless demonization and character assassination he's endured from the progressive left, for nothing other than the crime of challenging The Great Ed Markey, who I repeat, none of these people actually knows anything about other than that he's AOC's buddy.  Imagine if someone told them he voted for the Iraq War.  According to Bernie, that's a disqualifying mistake.

Stay mad lol