Special Election megathread (5/21: CA-20)

[Interlocutor is just not there yet]

Not mentioned yet here, but Ayanna Pressley endorsed Nina Turner yesterday. Fairly big news considering Pressley's role as a major Warren surrogate in 2019/20. I wonder if other "Warren Democrats" will be announcing their support for Turner as well.

I mean, Porter already endorsed Turner and is probably a higher-profile member of the Warren sphere than Pressley is.

Hard disagree. The general public is way more likely to know who Ayanna Pressley is than Katie Porter.

I don't think the general public knows much about who either of them are (Unless you're from Massachusetts or Southern California).. Or are 'way more likely' to know one over the other.

[wbrocks67]

Not mentioned yet here, but Ayanna Pressley endorsed Nina Turner yesterday. Fairly big news considering Pressley's role as a major Warren surrogate in 2019/20. I wonder if other "Warren Democrats" will be announcing their support for Turner as well.

https://twitter.com/Marisa_N19/status/1410232531220373511

Also it looks like in the wake of Clyburn's move, Turner raised over $100K in 24 hours.

It's funny how Nina Turner thinks she's the only one raising money here

https://twitter.com/allymutnick/status/1410566593315328003

[GALeftist]

I really don't understand why Nina Turner has turned into this Tulsi like figure in the minds of so many of y'all (and evidently in the mind of Mr. Clyburn as well). Yeah, she's used hyperbolic language in the past, but honestly I would bet she voted for Hillary in 2016 and just never admitted to it. In this primary, she has primarily tied herself to Berniecrats/the Squad nationally and the Ohio Democratic establishment locally. Neither group suggests to me that she will be anything other that a normal progressive Democrat in terms of voting record a la AOC.

She compared voting for Biden to "eating a bowl of sh**t". At least even TULSI had sense enough to endorse Biden in April. Turner said this mere weeks before the 2020 DNC convention.

She's also cozy with Jill Stein and the Greens, which is another characteristic she shares with Gabbard. Stein offered her the VP slot in 2016 after she made her loyalty to MAGA and Putin clear in the public eye. She's going to win this seat and stab Democrats in the back.

1. No, she compared it to eating half a bowl, with Trump being the entire thing. It should be OK for Democrats to say that the candidate is imperfect but better than the alternative.
2. Yeah, crazy how she didn't take the slot. Almost like she's a closet Hillary voter like I've been saying all along.
3. 100% of "backstabs" in this Congress have been from centrists.

[GeneralMacArthur]

Marcia Fudge's mother endorses Shontel Brown.

Since Biden admin figures are presumably staying out of primaries, that's as close as you're gonna get to a Fudge endorsement.

[Meatball Ron]

1. No, she compared it to eating half a bowl, with Trump being the entire thing. It should be OK for Democrats to say that the candidate is imperfect but better than the alternative.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Are you seriously implying that

a) there is a material difference between eating "half a bowl of sh**t" and "a bowl of sh**t" - either way, you are eating sh**t

b) comparing a candidate to "eating sh**t" is the same thing as saying they're "imperfect"

I understand the nuance you're going for, but all Turner was saying is that "Biden is terrible but a little less bad than Trump." That's not the same thing as "imperfect but worth supporting" or whatever (which I would, of course, be fine with). Someone who thinks Biden is terrible should not be a Democratic member of Congress, especially considering how narrow the majority is.

[wbrocks67]

Marcia Fudge's mother endorses Shontel Brown.

Since Biden admin figures are presumably staying out of primaries, that's as close as you're gonna get to a Fudge endorsement.

Interesting. The primary is still a month away. It certainly feels as though Brown could get some late momentum.

However, Turner has SO much $$ that idek if it would be enough

[GALeftist]

1. No, she compared it to eating half a bowl, with Trump being the entire thing. It should be OK for Democrats to say that the candidate is imperfect but better than the alternative.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Are you seriously implying that

a) there is a material difference between eating "half a bowl of sh**t" and "a bowl of sh**t" - either way, you are eating sh**t

b) comparing a candidate to "eating sh**t" is the same thing as saying they're "imperfect"

I understand the nuance you're going for, but all Turner was saying is that "Biden is terrible but a little less bad than Trump." That's not the same thing as "imperfect but worth supporting" or whatever (which I would, of course, be fine with). Someone who thinks Biden is terrible should not be a Democratic member of Congress, especially considering how narrow the majority is.

I'm not really interested in debating the rather subjective debate of whether the distastefulness of ingesting feces is absolute or varies depending on the volume of said feces. With the context, I think it's pretty clear that she was used (perhaps hyperbolic) language to explain how she can both be critical of Biden and in favor of voting for him. I mean, why even make the distinction to begin with if that's not the point she was making?

With respect to your point about how "someone who thinks Biden is terrible should not be a Democratic member of Congress," I disagree vehemently for a couple reasons. Firstly, people who didn't like Biden were a substantial part of Biden's coalition in 2020; I should know, I was one of them. Voters like me deserve to be represented in government. More importantly, though, you seem to be suggesting that anyone who wants to serve as a Democrat in Congress must approve of any given Democratic president with only relatively minor criticisms, if any. This would lead to one of two things happening. Either A. anyone left of Biden goes unrepresented in the federal government, depriving them of representation and the nation of any good ideas they may come up with, or B. they are represented, just by a third party instead of the Democrats, which would be even worse, as the split would likely result in a spoiler effect kneecapping both parties.

[Meatball Ron]

1. No, she compared it to eating half a bowl, with Trump being the entire thing. It should be OK for Democrats to say that the candidate is imperfect but better than the alternative.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Are you seriously implying that

a) there is a material difference between eating "half a bowl of sh**t" and "a bowl of sh**t" - either way, you are eating sh**t

b) comparing a candidate to "eating sh**t" is the same thing as saying they're "imperfect"

I understand the nuance you're going for, but all Turner was saying is that "Biden is terrible but a little less bad than Trump." That's not the same thing as "imperfect but worth supporting" or whatever (which I would, of course, be fine with). Someone who thinks Biden is terrible should not be a Democratic member of Congress, especially considering how narrow the majority is.

I'm not really interested in debating the rather subjective debate of whether the distastefulness of ingesting feces is absolute or varies depending on the volume of said feces. With the context, I think it's pretty clear that she was used (perhaps hyperbolic) language to explain how she can both be critical of Biden and in favor of voting for him. I mean, why even make the distinction to begin with if that's not the point she was making?

With respect to your point about how "someone who thinks Biden is terrible should not be a Democratic member of Congress," I disagree vehemently for a couple reasons. Firstly, people who didn't like Biden were a substantial part of Biden's coalition in 2020; I should know, I was one of them. Voters like me deserve to be represented in government. More importantly, though, you seem to be suggesting that anyone who wants to serve as a Democrat in Congress must approve of any given Democratic president with only relatively minor criticisms, if any. This would lead to one of two things happening. Either A. anyone left of Biden goes unrepresented in the federal government, depriving them of representation and the nation of any good ideas they may come up with, or B. they are represented, just by a third party instead of the Democrats, which would be even worse, as the split would likely result in a spoiler effect kneecapping both parties.

Ehhhh, you're missing the point. I think Biden skeptics / Biden critics like AOC clearly have a place in Congress and are a good representation of the people in Biden's "coalition" who don't like Biden. That is not the same thing as saying the thought of Biden as President is as appetizing as the thought of eating human feces. Nina clearly feels differently than AOC and the vast majority of Biden skeptics in his "coalition" (many of whom, like the Sunrise children, probably didn't actually turn out to vote). I don't know you or your politics so I can't really say whether you're more in the AOC camp or the Nina camp.

[GoTfan]

Progressives held up Biden's agenda?

It was those fabled moderates like Sinema who killed a $15 minimum wage which *checks notes* Biden campaigned on.

[Meatball Ron]

Progressives held up Biden's agenda?

It was those fabled moderates like Sinema who killed a $15 minimum wage which *checks notes* Biden campaigned on.

Literally nobody is disagreeing with this

[wbrocks67]

I'm starting to get the impression Brown actually may have a shot here now

https://twitter.com/JacobRubashkin/status/1410941619562504199?ref_src=twsrc%5Etf...

[BuckeyeNut]

I'm starting to get the impression Brown actually may have a shot here now

https://twitter.com/JacobRubashkin/status/1410941619562504199?ref_src=twsrc%5Etf...

It is almost entirely dependent on how many people they can show this to, but Brown might be inching back into this thing. It is worth noting this ad is paid for by Brown, so she can't rely on SuperPACs boosting it. Turner has had such a massive cash advantage that TV and radio are liable to be saturated. Social media exists, of course, but we'll see. This ad is also liable to open up a can of worms with the Hatch Act (Fudge's mother says, "we're voting for Shoten Brown), which might generate some bad headlines not just for Brown, but also Fudge.

[wbrocks67]

Haaland was able to endorse though, so why can't Fudge?

[Meatball Ron]

(Fudge's mother says, "we're voting for Shoten Brown), which might generate some bad headlines not just for Brown, but also Fudge.

Would be pretty hard to prove that "we're" = her and Marcia, as opposed to her and her friends, her and her neighbors, her and whoever. Pretty smart.

[GALeftist]

Ehhhh, you're missing the point. I think Biden skeptics / Biden critics like AOC clearly have a place in Congress and are a good representation of the people in Biden's "coalition" who don't like Biden. That is not the same thing as saying the thought of Biden as President is as appetizing as the thought of eating human feces. Nina clearly feels differently than AOC and the vast majority of Biden skeptics in his "coalition" (many of whom, like the Sunrise children, probably didn't actually turn out to vote). I don't know you or your politics so I can't really say whether you're more in the AOC camp or the Nina camp.

This obviously isn't provable, but I'm almost certain that Nina Turner and AOC are very close to one another in terms of their feelings towards Biden, even if the language they use differs significantly. I'm probably more in the AOC camp in terms of language and the Turner camp in terms of feelings, but I have less to lose from a Biden administration, so that's probably to be expected.

It is almost entirely dependent on how many people they can show this to, but Brown might be inching back into this thing. It is worth noting this ad is paid for by Brown, so she can't rely on SuperPACs boosting it. Turner has had such a massive cash advantage that TV and radio are liable to be saturated. Social media exists, of course, but we'll see. This ad is also liable to open up a can of worms with the Hatch Act (Fudge's mother says, "we're voting for Shoten Brown), which might generate some bad headlines not just for Brown, but also Fudge.

Yeah, I think it would be silly to say that Turner isn't still the favorite by a wide margin, but Brown is no longer a nonfactor; I'm guessing she probably has around 15-20% chance of winning, so if she won it'd be surprising but not shocking to me.

[Meatball Ron]

Ehhhh, you're missing the point. I think Biden skeptics / Biden critics like AOC clearly have a place in Congress and are a good representation of the people in Biden's "coalition" who don't like Biden. That is not the same thing as saying the thought of Biden as President is as appetizing as the thought of eating human feces. Nina clearly feels differently than AOC and the vast majority of Biden skeptics in his "coalition" (many of whom, like the Sunrise children, probably didn't actually turn out to vote). I don't know you or your politics so I can't really say whether you're more in the AOC camp or the Nina camp.

This obviously isn't provable, but I'm almost certain that Nina Turner and AOC are very close to one another in terms of their feelings towards Biden, even if the language they use differs significantly. I'm probably more in the AOC camp in terms of language and the Turner camp in terms of feelings, but I have less to lose from a Biden administration, so that's probably to be expected.

You're right - there probably isn't a significant difference in terms of their feelings. But you're also right that it isn't provable, so all we have to go off is their words. I am a big believer in the phrase, "when someone shows you who they are, believe them." I don't trust Nina and I think the "bowl of sh**t" comment is a big problem, even if it was hyperbolic.

[GeneralMacArthur]

I have a bigger problem with Nina's behavior in 2016 than 2020.  I'm 2016 she was promoting all the conspiracy theories about Hillary Clinton stealing the election and being hopelessly corrupt and all that stuff that Trump profited from enormously, and she teamed up with Jill Stein big time, to the point that Nina was considered for Green Party VP.  She continued promoting these conspiracy theories throughout the Trump administration in her role as leader of Bernie's Super PAC (her co-leader was Tulsi Gabbard, another former Bernie acolyte who had a "DNC rigged 2016 and is rigging 2020" push poll featured on her website throughout her presidential run).  And of course she was one of Bernie world's main liaisons with what was then known as left-wing media but has since become openly right-wing or at least anti-Dem (the Glenn Greenwalds, Jimmy Dores, Aaron Mates and Caitlyn Johnstones of the world).

She's only become relatively better-behaved recently because for whatever reason, Bernie personally has more respect for Biden than he did for Clinton, and drew a line in the sand that his crew wasn't supposed to cross (although Sirota still did, leading to his ostracization).  The "voting for Biden is like eating a bowl of poop" comment is actually very tame and harmless compared to the things Nina was saying about Clinton and the DNC every day during the fateful 2016 election.

I don't actually believe that she's changed though (even if she has she's still awful) she's just following Bernie's lead and adapting to the new administration.

[GoTfan]

I have a bigger problem with Nina's behavior in 2016 than 2020.  I'm 2016 she was promoting all the conspiracy theories about Hillary Clinton stealing the election and being hopelessly corrupt and all that stuff that Trump profited from enormously, and she teamed up with Jill Stein big time, to the point that Nina was considered for Green Party VP.  She continued promoting these conspiracy theories throughout the Trump administration in her role as leader of Bernie's Super PAC (her co-leader was Tulsi Gabbard, another former Bernie acolyte who had a "DNC rigged 2016 and is rigging 2020" push poll featured on her website throughout her presidential run).  And of course she was one of Bernie world's main liaisons with what was then known as left-wing media but has since become openly right-wing or at least anti-Dem (the Glenn Greenwalds, Jimmy Dores, Aaron Mates and Caitlyn Johnstones of the world).

She's only become relatively better-behaved recently because for whatever reason, Bernie personally has more respect for Biden than he did for Clinton, and drew a line in the sand that his crew wasn't supposed to cross (although Sirota still did, leading to his ostracization).  The "voting for Biden is like eating a bowl of poop" comment is actually very tame and harmless compared to the things Nina was saying about Clinton and the DNC every day during the fateful 2016 election.

I don't actually believe that she's changed though (even if she has she's still awful) she's just following Bernie's lead and adapting to the new administration.

You know why Sanders listened to Biden more?

It's because Biden didn't try to run roughshod over him.

[brucejoel99]

I'm starting to get the impression Brown actually may have a shot here now

https://twitter.com/JacobRubashkin/status/1410941619562504199

Based & fudgepilled.

[GeneralMacArthur]

You know it's funny, on the last page folks were saying it was petty for Clyburn to anti-endorse Nina in a Dem primary after she repeatedly insulted him, and then on this page we've got someone saying Nina was totally justified promulgating Trump's favorite conspiracy theories about Clinton and helping Stein in the general election because Hillary was allegedly mean to her boss (even though she gave Bernie an entire day of the convention to himself as a consolation prize for losing the primary).

[EJ24]

How long after Turner wins does she give a speech suggesting we impeach Joe Biden for eco-terrorism because he didn't pass the Green New Deal by executive order?

Or maybe that's a bit hyperbolic, perhaps she just goes on Joe Rogan's podcast and trashes Biden/Kamala for 35 solid minutes, then pretends she has no idea why right-wing think tanks and GOP strategists are tweeting it all over the place and using it in ads.

[Never Made it to Graceland]

How long after Turner wins does she give a speech suggesting we impeach Joe Biden for eco-terrorism because he didn't pass the Green New Deal by executive order?

Or maybe that's a bit hyperbolic, perhaps she just goes on Joe Rogan's podcast and trashes Biden/Kamala for 35 solid minutes, then pretends she has no idea why right-wing think tanks and GOP strategists are tweeting it all over the place and using it in ads.

The Biden Boys in this thread are off their rockers.

[Never Made it to Graceland]

Do the centrist Dems rushing to latch on to every progressive's strongest opponent at their donors' behests realize that the entire paradigm of Democratic politics is going to change in 20 years? This talk of progressivism "destroying the Dems' future" is utter nonsense. The time to push for strong environmental policies was yesterday, but today, now, is all we can do, as we have seen with the heat waves killing hundreds of people this week. Who cares who geriatric old Clyburn endorses when that's the reality we're faced with?

[Zaybay]

This race has honestly been a rather great representation of just how disconnected the dialogue pertaining to an election can be from the actual election.

The contrast of the absolute vitriol, anger, constant arguments, rehashing 2016, and absolute hysteria that's occurring across media platforms on this race while the actual election is a rather quiet, boring primary where not even the debates are eliciting strong arguments between the candidates is truly something to behold.

[brucejoel99]

How long after Turner wins does she give a speech suggesting we impeach Joe Biden for eco-terrorism because he didn't pass the Green New Deal by executive order?

Or maybe that's a bit hyperbolic, perhaps she just goes on Joe Rogan's podcast and trashes Biden/Kamala for 35 solid minutes, then pretends she has no idea why right-wing think tanks and GOP strategists are tweeting it all over the place and using it in ads.

The Biden Boys in this thread are off their rockers.

Hey, whatever you do, don't look at me, y'all, I said my piece on & made my peace with Congresswoman Turner months ago, the latter aspect of which is presumably something that - let alone presumably more than - I presume the likes of GMac will ever be able to do. I'm just in the business of trying to make halfhearted-but-still-somehow-witty quips at this point.