Russia-Ukraine war and related tensions Megathread

[afleitch]

Russian can demand what it wants from Ukraine, but it won't budge the international response to Russia.

[Hindsight was 2020]

Glad that now there will be talks.  Most things Putin has been demanding are reasonable in my view and Ukraine should try to meet him halfway on that. 

What is not reasonable and I hope Putin drops are

a) Ukraine demilitarization (not even clear what that means, does it mean no Ukraine army or a Ukraine army with no weapons) - this is not a reasonable demand on a sovereign nation   
b)  Zelensky has to go - this does not benefit Russia anyway.  Unless Putin wants to annex Ukraine whole (then why have talks at all) Putin will need someone on the Ukraine side to make the deal (which most in West Ukraine will be negative on) to make it stick.  Zelensky sounds like the man for the job.  For sure a Russian puppet cannot make the deal stick in Western Ukraine

[Person Man]

Awesome quote by CDU and Opposition leader Friedrich Merz in his Bundestag speech: "This clean democrat* [Putin], that he actually never was, has now turned into, on display for the whole world, a war criminal..."

* He used the term lupenreiner Demokrat, a referring to what Gerhard Schröder once called Putin. There's no exact translation for lupenrein, it means something like very "pure" or "clean" (the exact translation would be "lens clean").

A non-Latinized version of “transparent”.

[Flyersfan232]

Remember when Tucker Carlson and other rwers were saying how Russia’s military is better than ours because they released a recruiting video about how masculine and unpc the troops are? Lol

its the same with the ukrainian recruitment ads

[Logical]

During the 2020 Karabakh War there were three seperate ceasefires brokered by Russia, USA and France, all broken within hours. As long as one side feels that it could achieve its objectives militarily then truce may be violated at any time. Ukraine should remain wary and vigilant as these negotiations may be conducted in bad faith.

[pppolitics]

During the 2020 Karabakh War there were three seperate ceasefires brokered by Russia, USA and France, all broken within hours. As long as one side feels that it could achieve its objectives militarily then truce may be violated at any time. Ukraine should remain wary and vigilant as these negotiations may be conducted in bad faith.

In this case, Putin might be looking for an exit strategy since things aren't going as plan.

He probably need something he can spin as a "win" back at home.

[Blair]

I'm saying this with no real knowledge beyond a hunch but it always felt that that there was a space for an agreement which saw some sort of commitment around NATO membership, a possible carve out of the areas in Eastern Ukraine that have been controlled since 2014 by Russian forces & accepting Crimea.

[KaiserDave]

So Germany just radically changed almost a century of state policy on defense and Scholz is the one who did it?

[Mike88]

During the 2020 Karabakh War there were three seperate ceasefires brokered by Russia, USA and France, all broken within hours. As long as one side feels that it could achieve its objectives militarily then truce may be violated at any time. Ukraine should remain wary and vigilant as these negotiations may be conducted in bad faith.

In this case, Putin might be looking for an exit strategy since things aren't going as plan.

He probably need something he can spin as a "win" back at home.

Still, I'm very skeptical regarding these peace talks. There's something fishy.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Yeah, I fully expect this to be an attempt to assassinate Zelensky at the peace talks. Putin's not acting like he'll accept anything but full surrender, and that's not happening at the rate the war is actually going.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Yeah, I fully expect this to be an attempt to assassinate Zelensky at the peace talks. Putin's not acting like he'll accept anything but full surrender, and that's not happening at the rate the war is actually going.

Zelensky hasn't confirmed he's going himself.

[lfromnj]

Glad that now there will be talks.  Most things Putin has been demanding are reasonable in my view and Ukraine should try to meet him halfway on that. 

What is not reasonable and I hope Putin drops are

a) Ukraine demilitarization (not even clear what that means, does it mean no Ukraine army or a Ukraine army with no weapons) - this is not a reasonable demand on a sovereign nation   
b)  Zelensky has to go - this does not benefit Russia anyway.  Unless Putin wants to annex Ukraine whole (then why have talks at all) Putin will need someone on the Ukraine side to make the deal (which most in West Ukraine will be negative on) to make it stick.  Zelensky sounds like the man for the job.  For sure a Russian puppet cannot make the deal stick in Western Ukraine

I mean I don't get the purpose of wanting a closer Ukraine to Russia but annexing the most Russian parts of Ukraine. With Crimea and Donbass out Yanukych loses in 2010 right ?

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Yeah, I fully expect this to be an attempt to assassinate Zelensky at the peace talks. Putin's not acting like he'll accept anything but full surrender, and that's not happening at the rate the war is actually going.

Zelensky hasn't confirmed he's going himself.

I think he's too smart for that, yeah - and don't be surprised if Putin uses that as an excuse to break off the talks because he's "insulted".

[Person Man]

So Germany just radically changed almost a century of state policy on defense and Scholz is the one who did it?

Only Nixon could go to China.

[FrancoAgo]

Historic speech by Olaf Scholz. Germany completely changes its defense policy. It sounded like he would invest 100 billion EURO right here and now in military equipment and from now on spend at least 2% of GDP yearly on defense. This will furthermore have a ripple effect in that other NATO countries - like my own - have been hiding behind Germany in not spending the 2%. That will almost certainly change now.

This could actually be a real turning point. It could also signal a new world order where democratic Europe rises from the pathetic depence on the United States.

It’s worth noting ofc that even at the height of the Cold War the land forces between each side were not hugely outmatched in quality- and that was with a much larger USSR and a number of Warsaw Pact states.

Putin cannot go toe to toe with a U.K. France and Germany at Cold War levels of spending- along with other countries like Poland.

The WP countries had larger and more capable standing armies, but NATO could match them with mobilisation.

No, the NATO armies were standing army, they have most of the units near to full force, they can mobilize but the had not enough equipment for most men they can mobilize, the WP armies were mobilization armies they had many units under strength that need mobilization to fulfill the ranks.

[certified hummus supporter 🇵🇸🤝🇺🇸🤝🇺🇦]

So Germany just radically changed almost a century of state policy on defense and Scholz is the one who did it?

-Insert joke about Prussian discipline here-

[certified hummus supporter 🇵🇸🤝🇺🇸🤝🇺🇦]

In contrast to the based commies in Japan, our breed of commies are f*****g morons.

https://mobile.twitter.com/CpusaDepartment/status/1497944574961938432

[MaxQue]

Glad that now there will be talks.  Most things Putin has been demanding are reasonable in my view and Ukraine should try to meet him halfway on that.  

What is not reasonable and I hope Putin drops are

a) Ukraine demilitarization (not even clear what that means, does it mean no Ukraine army or a Ukraine army with no weapons) - this is not a reasonable demand on a sovereign nation  
b)  Zelensky has to go - this does not benefit Russia anyway.  Unless Putin wants to annex Ukraine whole (then why have talks at all) Putin will need someone on the Ukraine side to make the deal (which most in West Ukraine will be negative on) to make it stick.  Zelensky sounds like the man for the job.  For sure a Russian puppet cannot make the deal stick in Western Ukraine

I mean I don't get the purpose of wanting a closer Ukraine to Russia but annexing the most Russian parts of Ukraine. With Crimea and Donbass out Yanukych loses in 2010 right ?

By a lot. A 800000 votes win becomes a 3 million votes loss. Crimea was 78-17, Donetsk was 90-6 and Luhansk was 89-8.

[Aurelius]

In contrast to the based commies in Japan, our breed of commies are f*****g morons.

https://mobile.twitter.com/CpusaDepartment/status/1497944574961938432

Blame America first... never change.

[Unbeatable Titan Susan Collins]

https://twitter.com/JenGriffinFNC/status/1497946181053333504

[jaichind]

Glad that now there will be talks.  Most things Putin has been demanding are reasonable in my view and Ukraine should try to meet him halfway on that. 

What is not reasonable and I hope Putin drops are

a) Ukraine demilitarization (not even clear what that means, does it mean no Ukraine army or a Ukraine army with no weapons) - this is not a reasonable demand on a sovereign nation   
b)  Zelensky has to go - this does not benefit Russia anyway.  Unless Putin wants to annex Ukraine whole (then why have talks at all) Putin will need someone on the Ukraine side to make the deal (which most in West Ukraine will be negative on) to make it stick.  Zelensky sounds like the man for the job.  For sure a Russian puppet cannot make the deal stick in Western Ukraine

I mean I don't get the purpose of wanting a closer Ukraine to Russia but annexing the most Russian parts of Ukraine. With Crimea and Donbass out Yanukych loses in 2010 right ?

I think a limited interpretation of what Putin wants are constitutional guarantees of neutrality.  Ideally, a pro-Russia party wins elections but just like Finland in the 1945-1991 period the pro-USSR SKDL party never came close to winning any elections in Finland and that was fine by the USSR as long as Finland took a non anti-USSR position interntionally.

[MaxQue]

In contrast to the based commies in Japan, our breed of commies are f*****g morons.

https://mobile.twitter.com/CpusaDepartment/status/1497944574961938432

Well, to be fair, one is way more serious than the other. The Japan Communists are, well, social democrats at this point, and they are a serious party with a large membership (it claims 270000 members), has 10 representatives and 13 senators. It got 7% of the vote last election and has non-stop representation in the Diet since democracy came back after WWII.

The CPUSA, well. It claims less than 10000 members and did not run candidates for election since 1984 and never elected anybody anywhere.

[jaichind]

As the talks begin I really hope Putin can channel Hungarian leader Kádár who said 'Those who are not against us are for us.'' and focus on Ukraine being neutral and not trying to ask for things that weaken Ukraine sovereignty.

[compucomp]

The Ukrainians are certainly in a much stronger position for these peace talks than when Zelensky was asking for them two days ago. Still, I don't think he will get status quo ante bellum here. Russian forces have fallen short of expectations for sure but they are still winning in the sense that they hold Ukrainian territory, including some important parts in the South near Crimea.

[lfromnj]

Glad that now there will be talks.  Most things Putin has been demanding are reasonable in my view and Ukraine should try to meet him halfway on that.  

What is not reasonable and I hope Putin drops are

a) Ukraine demilitarization (not even clear what that means, does it mean no Ukraine army or a Ukraine army with no weapons) - this is not a reasonable demand on a sovereign nation  
b)  Zelensky has to go - this does not benefit Russia anyway.  Unless Putin wants to annex Ukraine whole (then why have talks at all) Putin will need someone on the Ukraine side to make the deal (which most in West Ukraine will be negative on) to make it stick.  Zelensky sounds like the man for the job.  For sure a Russian puppet cannot make the deal stick in Western Ukraine

I mean I don't get the purpose of wanting a closer Ukraine to Russia but annexing the most Russian parts of Ukraine. With Crimea and Donbass out Yanukych loses in 2010 right ?

By a lot. A 800000 votes win becomes a 3 million votes loss. Crimea was 78-17, Donetsk was 90-6 and Luhansk was 89-8.

So this makes no sense at all. If Russia wanted to keep influence in Ukraine why are they trying to remove the most Russian parts of Ukraine?