🇬🇷 Greek politics and elections

[oldtimer]

First poll in 11 years in which PASOK is the second biggest party:

Opinion Poll for Action24:

38.5% ND (-0.6)
16.0% PASOK (+3.7)
14.7% Syriza (-2.6)
10.6% KKE (+1.1)
  5.9% EL (nc)
  3.9% NIKI (-0.7)
  3.0% Spartans (-0.6)
  2.5% PE (-0.9)
  2.4% MeRA25
  2.5% Other parties (-1.8 )

Poll conducted between 13 and 15 November 2023. Polled 1,011 voters.

Is it possible a Syriza collapse could push KKE above PASOK? I'm not really familiar with the dynamics of the left in Greece.

Absent a severe crisis this is my forecast for the greek left:

PASOK will probably never exceed 13-14% without an implosion of ND to it's left or a radical change in the economic structure towards sectors that support PASOK against the sectors that support ND.

The limit of the Communists is the size of their patronage labour union network, that hands out jobs and protection to it's members, even at it's best they couldn't exceed 9%.

It's probable that SYRIZA voters will abstain, they have no hope of public sector jobs or a private patronage network that supports the non-communist left.

That should boost all parties a bit from reduced turnout, but not seriously change things abscent the disappearance of SYRIZA, just like in the last election.

[Mike88]

Parts of Syriza's youth movement are also leaving the party.

https://twitter.com/ekathimerini/status/1726223441223876806

[oldtimer]

Parts of Syriza's youth movement are also leaving the party.

https://twitter.com/ekathimerini/status/1726223441223876806

The curtains will fall around the euro elections in May.

Either they all leave to found new parties to compete in the euro elections or after a catastrophic result becomes the Deus ex machina that removes Kasselakis.

[Mike88]

In this week's episode, 9 MPs leave Syriza as a new poll puts the party tied with KKE at 3rd place:

https://twitter.com/POLITICOEurope/status/1727699944692121991

ATHENS — Greece’s main opposition party Syriza continues to dissolve, with another exodus of members, accusing the party leader of “authoritarian behavior.”

Nine lawmakers, including ex-ministers and senior party officials, announced on Thursday they are leaving the party, leaving Syriza with just 36 MPs in the 300-seat parliament, just four more than the third party, the socialist Pasok party.
(...)

Prorata poll: (after 15.5% of undecideds are excluded)

40.2% ND (+1.7)
14.2% PASOK (+1.4)
12.4% KKE (+1.8 )
12.4% Syriza (-4.9)
  4.7% EL (-2.0)
  4.1% PE (+1.9)
  3.0% NIKI (-0.4)
  3.0% Spartans (-0.9)
  2.4% MeRA25
  3.6% Other parties (-1.0)

Poll conducted between 15 and 20 November 2023. Polled 1,000 voters.

[oldtimer]

In this week's episode, 9 MPs leave Syriza as a new poll puts the party tied with KKE at 3rd place:

https://twitter.com/POLITICOEurope/status/1727699944692121991

ATHENS — Greece’s main opposition party Syriza continues to dissolve, with another exodus of members, accusing the party leader of “authoritarian behavior.”

Nine lawmakers, including ex-ministers and senior party officials, announced on Thursday they are leaving the party, leaving Syriza with just 36 MPs in the 300-seat parliament, just four more than the third party, the socialist Pasok party.
(...)

Prorata poll: (after 15.5% of undecideds are excluded)

40.2% ND (+1.7)
14.2% PASOK (+1.4)
12.4% KKE (+1.8 )
12.4% Syriza (-4.9)
  4.7% EL (-2.0)
  4.1% PE (+1.9)
  3.0% NIKI (-0.4)
  3.0% Spartans (-0.9)
  2.4% MeRA25
  3.6% Other parties (-1.0)

Poll conducted between 15 and 20 November 2023. Polled 1,000 voters.

They where due to leave last Sunday but they got cold feet.

Kasselakis then forced then to leave today, by convening for today SYRIZA's executive committee to approve of his idea of him taking all the policy decisions.

Plus yesterday he published that he had moved to a 30k euros a month luxury apartment, highly hypocritical of the "leader of the left" and it angered people.

He's always on TV flaunting his lifestyle like an Orange County Reality Show.

[oldtimer]

The Greek PM has conducted a Reshuffle.

The main changes:

Τhe Minister of Public Order was sacked over rising crime rates and a number of police officer deaths.

Michalis Chrisochoidis, who was ex-minister of Public Order on and off for over 24 years now in numerous PASOK-ND governments, has been reappointed to the post after getting sacked many months ago over the government's failure to deal with numerous crisis.

The Minister of Employment, the controversial Adonis Georgiadis, got demoted again, this time to Health Minister , which was his first senior post 11 years ago.

This after Georgiadis carried out Mitsotakis orders to pass the legalization of Illegal Immigration Bill, and the Pakistani Government published a video with Georgiadis hailing an agreement to import half a million pakistani labourers to Greece, equivalent to 12% of the greek workforce.

https://greekcitytimes.com/2023/12/20/georgiadis-pakistani-claims/

That created a public outcry and small cracks inside ND, with ex-PM Samaras refusing to vote for it.

[oldtimer]

The greek press is reporting that Tsipras is planning to launch a new party (headed by himself of course) after the Euroelections.

That would make it 4 SYRIZA splinters.

[oldtimer]

There is a surprising political crisis occuring over Gay Marriage.

Mitsotakis wants to push his left wing social agenda, and so far he has been succesfull with the support of the left opposition.

This time opposition from within his own party is becoming so strong and the left opposition so fragmented he can rely on neither.

Mitsotakis has pleaded with Ministers and his MP's to at least abstain from the vote, PASOK is leaning towards No, and opposition within what's left of SYRIZA to Kasselakis is growing.

Beyond today's declared No votes from MP's in the middle of ND, Mitsotakis could count to about 100 yes votes (now probably fewer), plus 36 from Kasselakis (now doubtfull).

There is speculation among the press that Mitsotakis wants to retire to an EU post (seems to be typical of EU PM's in trouble lately).

Basically I haven't seen such a ruckus from within a government since the dying days of the Tsipras Administration.

Even ND media are attacking Mitsotakis for prioritizing a divisive social agenda over the economy or crime.

[MaxQue]

There is a surprising political crisis occuring over Gay Marriage.

Mitsotakis wants to push his left wing social agenda, and so far he has been succesfull with the support of the left opposition.

This time opposition from within his own party is becoming so strong and the left opposition so fragmented he can rely on neither.

Mitsotakis has pleaded with Ministers and his MP's to at least abstain from the vote, PASOK is leaning towards No, and opposition within what's left of SYRIZA to Kasselakis is growing.

Beyond today's declared No votes from MP's in the middle of ND, Mitsotakis could count to about 100 yes votes (now probably fewer), plus 36 from Kasselakis (now doubtfull).

There is speculation among the press that Mitsotakis wants to retire to an EU post (seems to be typical of EU PM's in trouble lately).

Basically I haven't seen such a ruckus from within a government since the dying days of the Tsipras Administration.

Even ND media are attacking Mitsotakis for prioritizing a divisive social agenda over the economy or crime.

So, pushing homophonia hidden behind an inexisting wave of crime.

[oldtimer]

There is a surprising political crisis occuring over Gay Marriage.

Mitsotakis wants to push his left wing social agenda, and so far he has been succesfull with the support of the left opposition.

This time opposition from within his own party is becoming so strong and the left opposition so fragmented he can rely on neither.

Mitsotakis has pleaded with Ministers and his MP's to at least abstain from the vote, PASOK is leaning towards No, and opposition within what's left of SYRIZA to Kasselakis is growing.

Beyond today's declared No votes from MP's in the middle of ND, Mitsotakis could count to about 100 yes votes (now probably fewer), plus 36 from Kasselakis (now doubtfull).

There is speculation among the press that Mitsotakis wants to retire to an EU post (seems to be typical of EU PM's in trouble lately).

Basically I haven't seen such a ruckus from within a government since the dying days of the Tsipras Administration.

Even ND media are attacking Mitsotakis for prioritizing a divisive social agenda over the economy or crime.

So, pushing homophonia hidden behind an inexisting wave of crime.

There is a crime wave alright, no day passes without a murder in the news, and 2 police officers where killed in the past few months, and it's a small country.

It's logical for a country that's had it's society smashed by a long economic depression to have hard times.

Besides that, Kasselakis being gay doesn't help the popularity of gays in Greece, everything associated with him becomes politically radioactive.

Mitsotakis pushing for this over the objections of everyone, is seen as a personal favour to Kasselakis who everyone hates for a variety of reasons.

Also Mitsotakis has burned his political capital when he pushed for other left wing social stuff over the objections of his own party.
ND MP rebellions which have been unthinkable are becoming common, even if he has the power to expel them.

[MaxQue]

There is a surprising political crisis occuring over Gay Marriage.

Mitsotakis wants to push his left wing social agenda, and so far he has been succesfull with the support of the left opposition.

This time opposition from within his own party is becoming so strong and the left opposition so fragmented he can rely on neither.

Mitsotakis has pleaded with Ministers and his MP's to at least abstain from the vote, PASOK is leaning towards No, and opposition within what's left of SYRIZA to Kasselakis is growing.

Beyond today's declared No votes from MP's in the middle of ND, Mitsotakis could count to about 100 yes votes (now probably fewer), plus 36 from Kasselakis (now doubtfull).

There is speculation among the press that Mitsotakis wants to retire to an EU post (seems to be typical of EU PM's in trouble lately).

Basically I haven't seen such a ruckus from within a government since the dying days of the Tsipras Administration.

Even ND media are attacking Mitsotakis for prioritizing a divisive social agenda over the economy or crime.

So, pushing homophonia hidden behind an inexisting wave of crime.

There is a crime wave alright, no day passes without a murder in the news, and 2 police officers where killed in the past few months, and it's a small country.

It's logical for a country that's had it's society smashed by a long economic depression to have hard times.

Besides that, Kasselakis being gay doesn't help the popularity of gays in Greece, everything associated with him becomes politically radioactive.

Mitsotakis pushing for this over the objections of everyone, is seen as a personal favour to Kasselakis who everyone hates for a variety of reasons.

Well, you just put your finger of it. There is no augmentation of crime, just more talk of it by a immoral media system.

[oldtimer]

There is a surprising political crisis occuring over Gay Marriage.

Mitsotakis wants to push his left wing social agenda, and so far he has been succesfull with the support of the left opposition.

This time opposition from within his own party is becoming so strong and the left opposition so fragmented he can rely on neither.

Mitsotakis has pleaded with Ministers and his MP's to at least abstain from the vote, PASOK is leaning towards No, and opposition within what's left of SYRIZA to Kasselakis is growing.

Beyond today's declared No votes from MP's in the middle of ND, Mitsotakis could count to about 100 yes votes (now probably fewer), plus 36 from Kasselakis (now doubtfull).

There is speculation among the press that Mitsotakis wants to retire to an EU post (seems to be typical of EU PM's in trouble lately).

Basically I haven't seen such a ruckus from within a government since the dying days of the Tsipras Administration.

Even ND media are attacking Mitsotakis for prioritizing a divisive social agenda over the economy or crime.

So, pushing homophonia hidden behind an inexisting wave of crime.

There is a crime wave alright, no day passes without a murder in the news, and 2 police officers where killed in the past few months, and it's a small country.

It's logical for a country that's had it's society smashed by a long economic depression to have hard times.

Besides that, Kasselakis being gay doesn't help the popularity of gays in Greece, everything associated with him becomes politically radioactive.

Mitsotakis pushing for this over the objections of everyone, is seen as a personal favour to Kasselakis who everyone hates for a variety of reasons.

Well, you just put your finger of it. There is no augmentation of crime, just more talk of it by a immoral media system.

Maybe there's a hidden agenda, maybe there isn't.

But things that where politically unthinkable just a few months ago are happening.

When a PM who has total power, pleads in public to his cabinet to vote yes, and begs his MP's not to vote against him, it usually starts the countdown for his departure.

It signals he doesn't have standing withing his party anymore, which was unthinkable until recently.

[oldtimer]

The political crisis over gay marriage continues.

The Archbishop of Greece has done a very rare public statement requesting a referendum, Mitsotakis rejected it.

ND leadership is leaking that around 100 ND MP's will vote in favour with around 30 against, though it's debatable how accurate those assumptions are.

The conservative parties will vote No unanimously.

SYRIZA continues to go through it's death convulsions, it's unknown how many would vote in favour, at least 3 will vote No.
They have a meeting at Kasselakis's country retreat, which Tsipras is boycotting.

PASOK is currently leaning towards yes, but some of it's MP's are vocally against.

The Konstantopoulou party will vote yes.

The Communists will vote No.

Greece's artistic community is also split.

Unlike the rest of Mitsotakis's neoliberal agenta, this doesn't have unanimous support from the greek business community, so it's a rare free debate which the greek PM can't censure.

[CumbrianLefty]

The Communists will vote No

Of course

[Storr]

The political crisis over gay marriage continues.

The Archbishop of Greece has done a very rare public statement requesting a referendum, Mitsotakis rejected it.

ND leadership is leaking that around 100 ND MP's will vote in favour with around 30 against, though it's debatable how accurate those assumptions are.

The conservative parties will vote No unanimously.

SYRIZA continues to go through it's death convulsions, it's unknown how many would vote in favour, at least 3 will vote No.
They have a meeting at Kasselakis's country retreat, which Tsipras is boycotting.

PASOK is currently leaning towards yes, but some of it's MP's are vocally against.

The Konstantopoulou party will vote yes.

The Communists will vote No.

Greece's artistic community is also split.

Unlike the rest of Mitsotakis's neoliberal agenta, this doesn't have unanimous support from the greek business community, so it's a rare free debate which the greek PM can't censure.

Gay marriage vote in parliament set for Feb. 15th:

https://www.politico.eu/article/greeces-mitsotakis-makes-progressive-pivot-with-same-sex-marriage-bill/

[oldtimer]

The political crisis over gay marriage continues.

The Archbishop of Greece has done a very rare public statement requesting a referendum, Mitsotakis rejected it.

ND leadership is leaking that around 100 ND MP's will vote in favour with around 30 against, though it's debatable how accurate those assumptions are.

The conservative parties will vote No unanimously.

SYRIZA continues to go through it's death convulsions, it's unknown how many would vote in favour, at least 3 will vote No.
They have a meeting at Kasselakis's country retreat, which Tsipras is boycotting.

PASOK is currently leaning towards yes, but some of it's MP's are vocally against.

The Konstantopoulou party will vote yes.

The Communists will vote No.

Greece's artistic community is also split.

Unlike the rest of Mitsotakis's neoliberal agenta, this doesn't have unanimous support from the greek business community, so it's a rare free debate which the greek PM can't censure.

Gay marriage vote in parliament set for Feb. 15th:

https://www.politico.eu/article/greeces-mitsotakis-makes-progressive-pivot-with-same-sex-marriage-bill/

Nothing much has changed since my last post on the subject.

But here is a rundown:

Spoiler alert! Click Show to show the content.

Show

Miltiades Varvitsiotis resigned as an MP, ND still keeps his seat.

Some unusual suspects continue to come out for NO, but the consensus is a majority with the support of most of the other center left parties who are also split.
Around 160-175 Yeah's to around 100 No's.

The New Left Syriza splinter might be in talks to merge with PASOK, but every political move has been postponed until after the Euro elections.

Mitsotakis is facing double trouble with both the Church and Farmers.

The current Archbishop was appointed to the post due to him being a family relation of the Papandreou family and was never popular.
Christians have increasingly ignored his authority and now that loss of authority has crept up to the Bishops level who increasingly support NIKKI.
 
Gradually the government is losing control of the Church and a collision is imminent over social issues.

Now Farmers are emulating their european counterparts and are out blocking the main rural routes (after the infrastructure destruction of the past 2 years you can't really call them Highways), demanding more money.

The main beneficiary of all this is Velopoulos.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Please don't believe everything oldtimer is posting. They guy is mixing real news with made-up s**t.

[Oryxslayer]

Gay Marriage passes, 176 - 76.

[DL]

Gay Marriage passes, 176 - 76.

Can anyone explain to me why in all the years PASOK and later Syriza was in power - there was zero action on same sex marriage in Greece and now the rightwing New Democracy Party ends up being the one to do it?

[Tintrlvr]

Gay Marriage passes, 176 - 76.

Can anyone explain to me why in all the years PASOK and later Syriza was in power - there was zero action on same sex marriage in Greece and now the rightwing New Democracy Party ends up being the one to do it?

The left is fairly socially conservative in Greece, and the right is relatively less socially conservative than in other countries. The left would have had enough defectors that they couldn't ever pass it on their own, and ND has had more socially conservative leaders in the past who would not have supported it when they were out of power but have a socially liberal leader now who is supportive.

[icc]

What was the partisan breakdown of the vote?

[JimJamUK]

Gay Marriage passes, 176 - 76.

Reading the earlier posts in this thread, you would not have expected such an overwhelming majority…

[Oryxslayer]

What was the partisan breakdown of the vote?

This list of tweets, which uses far too many to convey the point,  has that information.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Gay Marriage passes, 176 - 76.

Can anyone explain to me why in all the years PASOK and later Syriza was in power - there was zero action on same sex marriage in Greece and now the rightwing New Democracy Party ends up being the one to do it?

PASOK didn't have the chance to pass much social reforms back in 2010 because the financial crisis overwhelmed everything.
SYRIZA were a bunch of frauds who talked big but were afraid to pass anything meaningful that would have angered their far-right governing partners of ANEL.

[PSOL]

People were complaining months after Tsipras got into power why weed wasn’t legalized.

They had one job to revitalize the country and they blew it.