🇬🇷 Greek politics and elections

[icc]

What was the partisan breakdown of the vote?

This list of tweets, which uses far too many to convey the point,  has that information.

Thanks - slightly surprisingly strong showing from New Democracy. When we passed gay marriage in the UK, a majority of Tory MPs voted against it despite support from the top.

[mileslunn]

What was the partisan breakdown of the vote?

This list of tweets, which uses far too many to convey the point,  has that information.

Thanks - slightly surprisingly strong showing from New Democracy. When we passed gay marriage in the UK, a majority of Tory MPs voted against it despite support from the top.

Also partly timing as when UK legalized it only 15 countries allowed it and more European did not than did.  Today majority of EU members allow it and its 36 globally prior to Greece so opposition to it is much tougher.  Also when UK legalized it, it had only been around anywhere for just over a decade while now for over 20 years. 

At least in UK Conservatives had almost half support it.  In France, Spain, Portugal, and Canada, overwhelming majority of conservatives voted against it with number support it in each country in low single digits.

[icc]

Indeed, but I don’t think Greek public opinion is any more favourable than it was in the UK when it was legalised (can’t speak for the others you mention), and the Greeks had a much more powerful Church backlash.

[Landslide Lyndon]

What was the partisan breakdown of the vote?

This list of tweets, which uses far too many to convey the point,  has that information.

Thanks - slightly surprisingly strong showing from New Democracy. When we passed gay marriage in the UK, a majority of Tory MPs voted against it despite support from the top.

After two easy wins and with most of the media extremely friendly towards him, Mitsotakis's internal opposition is very feeble. Former prime minister Samaras led the charge against SSM but at the end of the day this made very little difference.
And I'm pretty sure that as somebody who is obsessed with winning centrist voters Mitsotakis actually welcomed the vocal opposition by the theocratic, nationalist, ultra-conservative wing of his party.

[CumbrianLefty]

Is it true that the old style Commies voted against?

[Landslide Lyndon]

Is it true that the old style Commies voted against?

Yes. I've been saying for years that KKE has nothing to do with the left and they are probably our most conservative and reactionary party in the parliament.

[Oryxslayer]

Is it true that the old style Commies voted against?

The Communists were unanimously opposed. Other strong opponents include Greek Solution, Spartans, and Níki. A absolutely wonderful class of characters.

[crals]

One would think a party named Spartans would have voted in favour.

[Flyersfan232]

One would think a party named Spartans would have voted in favour.

https://www.curvemag.com/blog/history/the-myth-of-the-ancient-greek-gay-utopia/

[Flyersfan232]

so how are things looking for the eu elections?

[Estrella]

So, I knew that Kyriakos Mitsoakis is related to the PM with the same surname (his dad Konstantinos Mitsoakis, PM 1990-1993), but I found out he's also the brother of Dora Bakoyannis (former Mayor of Athens and Foreign Minister) and the uncle of Kostas Bakoyannis (the current Mayor of Athens). Which is weird, but then Greek politics is infamous for being very Happy Families. And then... that his great-grand-uncle was Eleftherios Venizelos, arguably the founder of modern Greece and certainly the founder of the Venizelist tradition today represented by Pasok and Syriza. Like, this is Romanov levels of inbreeding. Imagine if Rishi Sunak's sister was, I don't know, Theresa May, his nephew was Sadiq Khan, his father was John Major and his distant uncle was David Lloyd George.

[Vosem]

So, I knew that Kyriakos Mitsoakis is related to the PM with the same surname (his dad Konstantinos Mitsoakis, PM 1990-1993), but I found out he's also the brother of Dora Bakoyannis (former Mayor of Athens and Foreign Minister) and the uncle of Kostas Bakoyannis (the current Mayor of Athens). Which is weird, but then Greek politics is infamous for being very Happy Families. And then... that his great-grand-uncle was Eleftherios Venizelos, arguably the founder of modern Greece and certainly the founder of the Venizelist tradition today represented by Pasok and Syriza. Like, this is Romanov levels of inbreeding. Imagine if Rishi Sunak's sister was, I don't know, Theresa May, his nephew was Sadiq Khan, his father was John Major and his distant uncle was David Lloyd George.

It actually goes way beyond that. Since the restoration of democracy in 1974, throwing out temporary placeholders, there have been 9 Greek Prime Ministers who have won at least one election. These include a Papandreou father-and-son duo (Andreas in the 1980s and 1990s and Georgios in the 2010s; note that Andreas's father Georgios was also PM in the 1960s), a Mitsotakis father-and-son duo (Konstantinos in the 1990s and Kyriakos in the 2010s; they are descended from the earlier Venizelos dynasty which also produced multiple PMs), and a Karamanlis uncle-and-nephew duo (with the same name, Konstantinos). Only three out of nine post-1974 Greek Prime Ministers -- Simitis, Samaras, and Tsipras -- were not from prime ministerial dynasties.

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

So, I knew that Kyriakos Mitsoakis is related to the PM with the same surname (his dad Konstantinos Mitsoakis, PM 1990-1993), but I found out he's also the brother of Dora Bakoyannis (former Mayor of Athens and Foreign Minister) and the uncle of Kostas Bakoyannis (the current Mayor of Athens). Which is weird, but then Greek politics is infamous for being very Happy Families. And then... that his great-grand-uncle was Eleftherios Venizelos, arguably the founder of modern Greece and certainly the founder of the Venizelist tradition today represented by Pasok and Syriza. Like, this is Romanov levels of inbreeding. Imagine if Rishi Sunak's sister was, I don't know, Theresa May, his nephew was Sadiq Khan, his father was John Major and his distant uncle was David Lloyd George.

Not David Lloyd George, but his frenemy Herbert Henry Asquith has a great-granddaughter who is much more famous than most politicians.

[Landslide Lyndon]

So, I knew that Kyriakos Mitsoakis is related to the PM with the same surname (his dad Konstantinos Mitsoakis, PM 1990-1993), but I found out he's also the brother of Dora Bakoyannis (former Mayor of Athens and Foreign Minister) and the uncle of Kostas Bakoyannis (the current Mayor of Athens). Which is weird, but then Greek politics is infamous for being very Happy Families. And then... that his great-grand-uncle was Eleftherios Venizelos, arguably the founder of modern Greece and certainly the founder of the Venizelist tradition today represented by Pasok and Syriza. Like, this is Romanov levels of inbreeding. Imagine if Rishi Sunak's sister was, I don't know, Theresa May, his nephew was Sadiq Khan, his father was John Major and his distant uncle was David Lloyd George.

Bakoyiannis isn't mayor anymore. He lost his race for re-election last October.

[Flyersfan232]

so are possibleity on pasok merging with one of the split off of syriza?

[oldtimer]

Something was about to blow after the inner party spliterings among the center left parties over gay marriage.

Today it blew, Kasselakis had already antagonized everyone with his "bitch queen" act.
Now on the day of the SYRIZA party convention, Tsipras has come out for an early leadership election.

The loser will start his own party.

Now in the event Kasselakis loses, the New Left is likely to reunite with SYRIZA instead of joining PASOK, upending the developments of the past few months.

[oldtimer]

so how are things looking for the eu elections?

Before the likely dumping of Kasselakis and after Gay Marriage/Farming protests, the picture was settling to:

Spoiler alert! Click Show to show the content.

Show

ND: battered, but still way ahead.
PASOK: spinning wheels.
SYRIZA: fading to obscurity.
Communists: hitting their ceiling.
Velopoulos: having a go for possible 3rd place.
NIKKI: gaining less than Velopoulos.
Spartans: trying not to fall under the threshold.
Konstantopoulou: trying to cross the threshold
New Left: trying to cross the threshold.
Varoufakis: who cares ?

Basically the Right and the Communists gaining a few points at the expence of the Center Left.

Within the Right, Velopoulos is gaining the upper hand.
Within the Left, the Communists have gained the upper hand.

Now given the great similarities between Greece and Portugal there is always the possibility of a CHEGA, but Velopoulos is not as charismatic and with a more "dirty" record than Ventura.

There is a real feel that a populist billionaire could really shake things up, but Greece has none.

[Harlow]

Kasselakis had already antagonized everyone with his "bitch queen" act.

Nice. Very subtle.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Kasselakis had already antagonized everyone with his "bitch queen" act.

Nice. Very subtle.

To be fair, Kasselakis himself is the opposite of subtle.
That's why he has lost even some of his staunchest supporters and Tsipras came out of semi-retirement to call him out.

[oldtimer]

Actual Real Clown Car Alert

SYRIZA's early leadership elections have been cancelled after a farcical Convention.

Spoiler alert! Click Show to show the content.

Show

Thursday:
Tsipras asked for en early Leadership election.

Friday:
Tsipras preffered Candidate, Olga Gerovasili, had named her candidacy.
Kasselakis said elections March 10th.

Saturday:
Those who opposed Kasselakis said March 10th is too early.

Sunday:

Kasselakis asked Olga in the Convention face to face for elections on March 10th, she said no, then she asked for her to withdraw her candidacy, she said no.

Then they tabled a Vote of Confidence in favour of Kasselakis.
Kasselakis opposed the Vote of Confidence and wanted to vote NO to himself.

Then Kasselakis raised his hand to take the floor, but that hand raising was counted as an affirmative vote, so the elections where cancelled unanimously over his own objections.

To sum up:

Tsipras called for early elections to get rid of Kasselakis.
Kasselakis said ok.
Tsipras U-turned (he has that reputation) and pushed to cancel the elections that he called, but his candidate refuses to withdraw.
Kasselakis now wants early elections, but they wont let him.

And that circus governed Greece for 4 years.

[oldtimer]

One can't go on vacation without something serious happening.

The greek government is in another sudden crisis.

2 ministers where sacked today as a no-confidence vote is taking place.
All this started in the past 2 weeks as all the pre-election scandals from last year have popped up again, from the child prostitution scandal to the railway disaster:

Spoiler alert! Click Show to show the content.

Show

The government appointed Prosecutor recommened to drop most charges against the leading figure in the child prostitution ring and instead to prosecute the Mother of the victim.

Naturally there was a public uproar that the government wanted to aid the ringleaders and hide it's involvement in the scandal, as it was widely published when the scandal broke last year.

Then the investigation over last year's Train Wreck began to damage the government, and it led to a no-confidence vote to be called for today (greek no-confidence votes are just a formality).

Along with the publication by the press that the Government tampered with the investigation, with specific allegations about tape doctorings and involvement of an oligarch to pay the bail of leading suspects:

https://www.tovima.gr/print/politics/i-montaziera-sta-tempi-lfrixnei-nees-skies-stin-tragodia/

It has been published that Mitsotakis has come at loggerheads with the Cretan Oligarchs, and their media (all but 1 of private national TV stations) recently have been critical of the government lately.

When that specific newspaper ("To Vima") published the story the government denied it, and attacked it's owner and accused the opposition of ties with oligarchs.
 
However today it was unveiled that 2 ministers had dinner with Marinakis (the owner of "To Vima") just before they broke the story.

Since it looks likely that they where the source of the leak, they where sacked.

That's on top of the growing rifts inside ND between it's 2 ex-PM's and Mitsotakis over social policy, that have grown since Open Borders and Gay Marriage where pushed in the past few months.

Basically the scandals that where brushed under the carpet in 2023 have come out again, and the talk of the town over the past few weeks is that Mitsotakis wants to leave to be appointed EU Commission President after the Euroelections.

The growing internal splits inside ND and growing disatisfaction by the Shipping Oligarchs feeds that perception.

[Flyersfan232]

One can't go on vacation without something serious happening.

The greek government is in another sudden crisis.

2 ministers where sacked today as a no-confidence vote is taking place.
All this started in the past 2 weeks as all the pre-election scandals from last year have popped up again, from the child prostitution scandal to the railway disaster:

Spoiler alert! Click Show to show the content.

Show

The government appointed Prosecutor recommened to drop most charges against the leading figure in the child prostitution ring and instead to prosecute the Mother of the victim.

Naturally there was a public uproar that the government wanted to aid the ringleaders and hide it's involvement in the scandal, as it was widely published when the scandal broke last year.

Then the investigation over last year's Train Wreck began to damage the government, and it led to a no-confidence vote to be called for today (greek no-confidence votes are just a formality).

Along with the publication by the press that the Government tampered with the investigation, with specific allegations about tape doctorings and involvement of an oligarch to pay the bail of leading suspects:

https://www.tovima.gr/print/politics/i-montaziera-sta-tempi-lfrixnei-nees-skies-stin-tragodia/

It has been published that Mitsotakis has come at loggerheads with the Cretan Oligarchs, and their media (all but 1 of private national TV stations) recently have been critical of the government lately.

When that specific newspaper ("To Vima") published the story the government denied it, and attacked it's owner and accused the opposition of ties with oligarchs.
 
However today it was unveiled that 2 ministers had dinner with Marinakis (the owner of "To Vima") just before they broke the story.

Since it looks likely that they where the source of the leak, they where sacked.

That's on top of the growing rifts inside ND between it's 2 ex-PM's and Mitsotakis over social policy, that have grown since Open Borders and Gay Marriage where pushed in the past few months.

Basically the scandals that where brushed under the carpet in 2023 have come out again, and the talk of the town over the past few weeks is that Mitsotakis wants to leave to be appointed EU Commission President after the Euroelections.

The growing internal splits inside ND and growing disatisfaction by the Shipping Oligarchs feeds that perception.

who is likely to succeed him?

[Mike88]

I think this talk of Misotakis going to an EU post is just completely stupid, besides being just out of this world, and not sure if it has any ground.

In another topic, PASOK, according to polls, has slipped to third place and "car crash" Syriza is back in second place. Is Androulakis leadership being contested?

[oldtimer]

One can't go on vacation without something serious happening.

The greek government is in another sudden crisis.

2 ministers where sacked today as a no-confidence vote is taking place.
All this started in the past 2 weeks as all the pre-election scandals from last year have popped up again, from the child prostitution scandal to the railway disaster:

Spoiler alert! Click Show to show the content.

Show

The government appointed Prosecutor recommened to drop most charges against the leading figure in the child prostitution ring and instead to prosecute the Mother of the victim.

Naturally there was a public uproar that the government wanted to aid the ringleaders and hide it's involvement in the scandal, as it was widely published when the scandal broke last year.

Then the investigation over last year's Train Wreck began to damage the government, and it led to a no-confidence vote to be called for today (greek no-confidence votes are just a formality).

Along with the publication by the press that the Government tampered with the investigation, with specific allegations about tape doctorings and involvement of an oligarch to pay the bail of leading suspects:

https://www.tovima.gr/print/politics/i-montaziera-sta-tempi-lfrixnei-nees-skies-stin-tragodia/

It has been published that Mitsotakis has come at loggerheads with the Cretan Oligarchs, and their media (all but 1 of private national TV stations) recently have been critical of the government lately.

When that specific newspaper ("To Vima") published the story the government denied it, and attacked it's owner and accused the opposition of ties with oligarchs.
 
However today it was unveiled that 2 ministers had dinner with Marinakis (the owner of "To Vima") just before they broke the story.

Since it looks likely that they where the source of the leak, they where sacked.

That's on top of the growing rifts inside ND between it's 2 ex-PM's and Mitsotakis over social policy, that have grown since Open Borders and Gay Marriage where pushed in the past few months.

Basically the scandals that where brushed under the carpet in 2023 have come out again, and the talk of the town over the past few weeks is that Mitsotakis wants to leave to be appointed EU Commission President after the Euroelections.

The growing internal splits inside ND and growing disatisfaction by the Shipping Oligarchs feeds that perception.

who is likely to succeed him?

The Shipping Oligarchs have an outsized influence within ND and their favourite is Kasselakis, however he leads SYRIZA and is not a member of ND anymore (can someone be a member of both ? ).

The leading candidates:

Nikos Dendias (Defence Minister)
Adonis Georgiadis (Health Minister)
Nikos Chardalias (Governor of Attika)
Kiriakos Pierrakakis (Education Minister)

Normally I would add the Governor of Central Macedonia who was the runner up last time, however ND is now a southern urban center-left party, so the leadership will be won in the wealthy Athens suburbs.

[oldtimer]

I think this talk of Misotakis going to an EU post is just completely stupid, besides being just out of this world, and not sure if it has any ground.

In another topic, PASOK, according to polls, has slipped to third place and "car crash" Syriza is back in second place. Is Androulakis leadership being contested?

Looks like Antonio Costa and Leo Varadkar might have competition, seems an EU/NATO post is the dream of PM's lately.

As for PASOK, it's probably just a blip from Andreas Loverdos (serial loser of the PASOK leadership who failed to even get elected as an MP) founding his own party and getting 2% initially.