🇬🇷 Greek politics and elections

[Landslide Lyndon]

SYRIZA will always get at least 25% as long as Anatolian, Cretan and Turkish tribes think it represents their tribal economic interest (Politics in Greece is highly tribal).

Could you please expound on this? Sounds fascinating.

I don't get what he means by Anatolian tribes.
As for the other two, Crete has always been a bastion of center-left parties since the days of Eleftherios Venizelos, although Cretans themselves were never particularly progressive.
And the Muslims of Thrace might prefer SYRIZA's conciliatory tone towards Turkey but they are only a tiny slice of the electorate (1% or so). 

[Landslide Lyndon]

Back in the 80's and 90's there wasn't really any need to bus in supporters from all over Greece, especially in Athens. People lived and breathed politics and passions were high.
The next decades though, the rallies became increasingly smaller and they tried for some years to hide that fact by bringing in people from places as far as 300-400 km away.

Now they have pretty much abandoned these massive rallies and mostly do them indoors where very rarely attend more than 10-20 thousand people.

[Landslide Lyndon]

It's an absolute certainty that we will have a second election. If nobody gets an absolute majority again, then we will start talking about coalition governments.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Is there any internal opposition to Tsipras? Will this probably be his last election, assuming ND wins?

Currently there is none but I just can't see him staying after another defeat. It's obvious also that after 2019 he is just going through the motions, there isn't any fire in his belly.
The problem is that his friend and second in command Nikos Pappas was just convicted of corruption and lost any chance to succeed him as party leader. The other two who will probably make a run for it are Panos Skourletis (a Ted Cruz-like populist asshole) and Yiannis Ragousis, a former minister in the last Papandreou government who is mistrusted by the rest of the SYRIZA die-hards for that exact reason.   

[Landslide Lyndon]

Can anyone explain what ideological difference there is (if any) between Syriza and Pasok? I know that Syriza was formed as a leftwing protest against Pasok's austerity measures when the Greek economy collapsed ten years ago - but then when Syriza took power they seemed to have evolved into more of a moderate centre left party indistinguishable from the old Pasok  - so why don't they just merge? or is now all just personal rivalries and resentments?

SYRIZA wan't "formed" as a protest party. It exists since 1989 when the Communist Party and a handful of pro-European leftist parties merged a few months before that year's election.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Don't take everything oldtimer writes at face value. He is obviously a leftist who opposes the current government and prone to exaggeration and dramatization.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Don't take everything oldtimer writes at face value. He is obviously a leftist who opposes the current government and prone to exaggeration and dramatization.

I'm always well sourced on controversial issues:

https://en.rua.gr/2023/04/10/supreme-court-vice-president-resigns-over-pressure-to-ban-party-greeks/

" Tzanerikos publicly opposed the new amendment, calling it government interference in the judiciary. He called it “unprecedented […] and direct interference in the work of the Supreme Court.” "

As for the specific accusations against me by you:

Spoiler alert! Click Show to show the content.

Show

I understand your complaints, but my summaries have to be summaries or else it would take thousands of words per day, so I have to condence things to something approaching a news flash.
If you want I can write something long and fun about Greek scandals again.

As for the accusation that I'm a leftist sympathizer, anyone on this forum can be accused of that on something, at least those not Republican.
It's too broad of a term for me to address it.

You tried to link the case of the 12-year old rape victim with ND. Your credibility is less than zero.

[Landslide Lyndon]

I post the sources on greek controversies for all to read, if you are not satisfied you can always post your own sources.

Greek scandals are not top secret, they have been published by greek newspapers all the time.

Saying that Mitsotakis had "connections" with many of the people who raped the girl is not facts, it's you editorializing and lying.
There was also a member of SYRIZA's central committee among her "clients" but I don't see you mentioning that Tsipras had connections too.

[Landslide Lyndon]

I post the sources on greek controversies for all to read, if you are not satisfied you can always post your own sources.

Greek scandals are not top secret, they have been published by greek newspapers all the time.

Saying that Mitsotakis had "connections" with many of the people who raped the girl is not facts, it's you editorializing and lying.
There was also a member of SYRIZA's central committee among her "clients" but I don't see you mentioning that Tsipras had connections too.

This is my quote that you missquoted :

"It doesn't help the public image of Mitsotakis that the culprit was well connected and well known to the local Athens politics, (to the point he received large government contracts) and Mitsotakis's associations to a number of people caught in sex scandals with minors."

And this is my source since you requested specifics:

https://www.ekathimerini.com/news/238094/former-conservative-mp-convicted-of-paying-minors-for-sex/

"Former New Democracy lawmaker Nikos Georgiadis received a 28-month suspended prison sentence on Tuesday and was fined 20,000 euros after being found guilty by an Athens court of repeatedly paying minors for sex."

As to who that person was:

https://vouliwatch.gr/news/article/ektos-grammateias-politikoy-shediasmoy-o-nikos-georgiadis

That article is in greek but it refers him as "Secretary of Political Planning" and "close aid of Mr.Mitsotakis".

So as you see my quote is fairly on the money as a brief description of the situation.

Don't dare me to repost an entire greek sunday newspaper's worth of sourced material just to make you back down, I'm not in to obscure internet feuds, and they are too heavy.
Literally they weigh a good 5-6 pounds with all the extra magazines, they can break a window if you threw them.

And please post your own sources if you are not satisfied with my own.

Georgiadis had no ties with Mitsotakis since 2016 when he was first arrested. To use his name in context with the totally irrelevant 2022 case, and then try to use this non-existent connection as proof that Mitsotakis and ND are knowingly harboring pedophiles, is an odious tactic used by online SYRIZA trolls in a naked attempt to exploit a human tragedy for political purposes.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Here is a Bonus:

Varoufakis has published his Plan B for Greece to leave the Eurozone, with just an 8 year delay after the deadline of the summer of 2015, called Plan Dimitra (why call it Dimitra ?):

https://hellas.postsen.com/local/310203/Varoufakis-I-hope-we-don%E2%80%99t-go-to-the-drachma-%E2%80%93-If-necessary-we-will-be-paid%E2%80%A6-with-DIMITRA.html

Basically government issued crypto.

He's still defending that?? God...

The guy is a narcissistic moron who still believes that he would have saved us in 2015 if only we called EU's bluff and exited Eurozone. He should be rotting in a jail for treason instead of strutting like a peacock in the parliament.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Tsipras is so desperate and so shameless that he literally begged publicly the former Golden Dawn voters to vote SYRIZA this time because they are both anti-establishment parties.
Now tell me again that the horseshoe theory is wrong.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Tsipras is so desperate and so shameless that he literally begged publicly the former Golden Dawn voters to vote SYRIZA this time because they are both anti-establishment parties.
Now tell me again that the horseshoe theory is wrong.

Who are you going to support/vote for? PASOK?

Probably. Even though PASOK ran a disappointing campaign. Androulakis lacks both charisma and policy chops.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Tsipras is so desperate and so shameless that he literally begged publicly the former Golden Dawn voters to vote SYRIZA this time because they are both anti-establishment parties.
Now tell me again that the horseshoe theory is wrong.

Tsipras statement on Golden Dawn voters:

Our goal is for those people who would vote for Golden Dawn, to take them, to win them back from far-right and anti-democratic ideology and attitudes, and explain to them that it is not an anti-systemic thing to vote for Golden Dawn.

At the same time, he's also trying to win votes from ND and PASOK voters.

I have never witnessed a politician as shameless as Tsipras. The guy is courting Golden Dawn voters while at the same time many prominent members of his party have denounced Zelenski and the Ukrainian government as neo-Nazis.

[Landslide Lyndon]

I have never witnessed a politician as shameless as Tsipras. The guy is courting Golden Dawn voters while at the same time many prominent members of his party have denounced Zelenski and the Ukrainian government as neo-Nazis.

Would a government with Syriza weaken the pro-Ukraine position of the Greek government in/and the EU?

Who knows? Tsipras campaigned as a staunch anti-NATO, anti-EU, anti-American leftie in 2015 and then he became the closest US ally in the Balkans. The guy has no core ideals.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Just voted and brought back with me the ballots. Here are some of the most peculiar and funny parties of this election.

United Alliance of Freedom- Party of Greek Hunters and Fishermen



Communist Party of Greece (Marxist-Leninist)



Marxist-Leninist Communist Party of Greece



If...



K.O.T.E.S. (Chickens) which stands for Kapnistikes Omades gia tin Tehni kai thn Eikastiki Sigkrotisi (Smoking Groups for Art and Visual Composition)



OAKKE (Organization for the Reconstruction of the Communist Party of Greece)



Niki (Victory) (pro-Russian party that wants to attract some of the Golden Dawn voters)



ANTARSYA (Anticapitalist Cooperation for Overthrow/Subversion)



OKDE (Organization of Communist Internationalists of Greece)

[Landslide Lyndon]

Turnout update: Until 5pm, 48.8% of voters had already cast a ballot.

Looks like the pre crisis period of 70%+ turnout are long gone.  I guess the crisis plus economic contraction turned off a bunch of voters from the process. 

Maybe the final turnout will be similar with the 2019 one, we'll see. I believe that in the past, voting was mandatory but there were no real penalties for not voting. Nowadays, I believe that was revoked and, of course, the last decade events have taken a tool in the electorate's view of the political system and class.

Let's not forget that the number of registered voters is grossly inflated. There are people who have died five and ten years ago but their names still haven't been purged from the voter rolls.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Turnout update: Until 5pm, 48.8% of voters had already cast a ballot.

Looks like the pre crisis period of 70%+ turnout are long gone.  I guess the crisis plus economic contraction turned off a bunch of voters from the process. 

Maybe the final turnout will be similar with the 2019 one, we'll see. I believe that in the past, voting was mandatory but there were no real penalties for not voting. Nowadays, I believe that was revoked and, of course, the last decade events have taken a tool in the electorate's view of the political system and class.

Let's not forget that the number of registered voters is grossly inflated. There are people who have died five and ten years ago but their names still haven't been purged from the voter rolls.

Indeed, but the numbers of voters turning out to vote have decreased a lot in the last elections. Until 2009, the 7 million voters mark was easily surpassed and nowadays that's just a mirage.

You wouldn't believe the partisan fervor this country experienced from the 70's to the mid-90's.
Now people are much cooler when it comes to politics.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Question: Looking at previous election results, why are KKE so strong in the islands?

Tradition.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Question: Looking at previous election results, why are KKE so strong in the islands?

Tradition.

Doesn't the civil war be one of the reasons for it? I don't know, just asking.

Yes.

[Landslide Lyndon]

So far, only district results are being published. But, you know it's bad for Syriza when, with the current counting, the whole of Crete is painted with ND blue.

PASOK is doing very well there, they've overtaken SYRIZA in two of the four districts. Not too surprising that they've done well there but still interesting.

PASOK is doing amazing in rural districts. In many of them it has overtaken SYRIZA for second place.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Is a ND-EL coalition possible? Although there is very little incentive for ND to form a coalition when they can get a majority of their own in July.

Not a chance. Mitsotakis won't touch with a ten foot pole a far-right, ultra-religious, pro-Russia party.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Is Rodopi the only possible exception because it's where the remaining Muslim Turks live?

Yes. These people are heavily influenced by the local Turkish consulate and it's obvious that the Erdogan regime preferred Tsipras who was more conciliatory towards them.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Centrist parties of all flavours have declined bellow 80% for the first time since the transformation of SYRIZA to a center-left party.

Hahahaha!!!

[Landslide Lyndon]

Nice to see the phony left wing populist economist Yanis Varoufakis got shut out.

Somebody who let their fame go to their head, he never used to be this bad.

He always was that bad. A narcissist who was ready to gamble our country's future just to test his crazy theories.

[Landslide Lyndon]

I wonder whether his administration will stay in office until the snap election, or whether a technocrat cabinet will take over in the meantime? In 2012 and 2015, there were technocrat governments appointed in the meantime.

There will be a caretaker government whose sole responsibility will be to conduct the new election.