Biden infrastructure/tax increase megathread

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

https://news.yahoo.com/mcconnell-accuses-dem-leaders-letting-205651879.html

This is why Leader McConnell isn't bluffing on Filibusteribg the Debt Ceiling he said the Radical Left is controlling the Biden Agenda, he, McConnell didn't block infrastructure, he is blocking the Debt Ceiling due to 3.5T Socialized medicine

I know I shouldn’t reply to a bot trying, but on the off chance that anyone is taking this seriously, not only is the post a non-sequitor, so is McConnell’s entire argument.
‘Raising the debt ceiling’ has nothing to do with spending, it just means not preventing the Fed from issuing bonds.

You really think D's are gonna get a 3.5T dollar package, and Manchin and Sinema are adamantly opposed to raising Corporate taxes and 4T dollar bill l

The stupid 3.5T  has Medicare Expansion that doesn't even take up until 2028 and we already have Medicaid,, Seniors qualify for both Medicaid and Medicare and they get their Medicare premiums paid for by Medicaid if they make under 1488.
With full Preventive Dental care, no false teeth that is paid out of pocket, my whole family has Dual Coverage Medicare and Medicaid dual coverage

We need Student Loan Debt forgiveness not more Health care coverage, Biden promised to eliminate student loans.


Everyone gotten Medical coverage now in this Covid Environment I have plenty of it

[Del Tachi]

https://news.yahoo.com/mcconnell-accuses-dem-leaders-letting-205651879.html

This is why Leader McConnell isn't bluffing on Filibusteribg the Debt Ceiling he said the Radical Left is controlling the Biden Agenda, he, McConnell didn't block infrastructure, he is blocking the Debt Ceiling due to 3.5T Socialized medicine

I know I shouldn’t reply to a bot trying, but on the off chance that anyone is taking this seriously, not only is the post a non-sequitor, so is McConnell’s entire argument.
‘Raising the debt ceiling’ has nothing to do with spending, it just means not preventing the Fed from issuing bonds.

It is the Democrats who have tied infrastructure, new entitlement spending, and the debt ceiling votes together, miscalculating that they could iron out something that 50+1 senators could agree to in a timely manner while also placating the CPC.  No one from Schumer's team or even the White House has been engaging with McConnell to negotiate a debt ceiling increase, so why would he supply the votes of his conference to support such a partisan play? 

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

I just want Biden to keep his campaign promise to get rid of Student Loans Debt, because it's gonna get worse not better, Grad School is 10K online not 40K a yr and students will have more disposable income left with Student Loans after they pay their tuition.

But, due to automation more people are going to Grad school for Nursing, and Lawyers, because a College Degree is nothing it's like a HS Diploma, so many people have it, it's only valuable if you are an athlete

[Former President tack50]

Trillion dollar coin is not the only way around the debt ceiling.  Back in 2013 I wrote about another idea I came up with to get around it

There is a easy way out of the debt ceiling since we are talking about Treasury bonds.  Just issue Treasury bonds with face value of 100 but with coupon payments of say, 25 cents on the dollar.  Such a bond will sell at a premium (above the face value of 100) so the yield will be what the market will accept.  But the debt ceiling calculations are based on the face value since that will be the payout at the end of the bond.  In other words, as bonds with face value of 100 and coupon of 3 expires, just issue another bond of 100 with a coupon of 25 for a price around 300.  So now you can borrow an extra 200 versus before but have same "debt."  I thought of this one based on what I know Greece did in order to keep its "debt" below EU limits but in reality borrow more than that.  Of course the duration of such a bond might be such so that buyers might not want to buy it but other variations of this can be done to get the market what it wants.

Uhh, copying Greece circa 2005 I do not think is sound economic policy, even if it might be preferrable to a (technical) bankrupcy.

[Person Man]

Trillion dollar coin is not the only way around the debt ceiling.  Back in 2013 I wrote about another idea I came up with to get around it

There is a easy way out of the debt ceiling since we are talking about Treasury bonds.  Just issue Treasury bonds with face value of 100 but with coupon payments of say, 25 cents on the dollar.  Such a bond will sell at a premium (above the face value of 100) so the yield will be what the market will accept.  But the debt ceiling calculations are based on the face value since that will be the payout at the end of the bond.  In other words, as bonds with face value of 100 and coupon of 3 expires, just issue another bond of 100 with a coupon of 25 for a price around 300.  So now you can borrow an extra 200 versus before but have same "debt."  I thought of this one based on what I know Greece did in order to keep its "debt" below EU limits but in reality borrow more than that.  Of course the duration of such a bond might be such so that buyers might not want to buy it but other variations of this can be done to get the market what it wants.

Uhh, copying Greece circa 2005 I do not think is sound economic policy, even if it might be preferrable to a (technical) bankrupcy.

That’s like saying “let’s borrow  this much but only say we are borrowing this much”. That doesn’t feel Enron-y at all. Of course maybe the US government could get away with it but eventually people start refusing business with the US.

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

So are we now at the point where we’ll be lucky if any of this even happens by the end of October?

Debt limit being what it is, we’ve got 15 days.

All indicators are that we're defaulting. I'd say more than 85% Chance we do.

As far as the infrastructure bills, it'll happen sometime later in the year.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

So are we now at the point where we’ll be lucky if any of this even happens by the end of October?

Debt limit being what it is, we’ve got 15 days.

All indicators are that we're defaulting. I'd say more than 85% Chance we do.

As far as the infrastructure bills, it'll happen sometime later in the year.

D's are considering a backup plan minting a T dollar coin and putting it thru Reconciliation the Debt Ceiling increase and passing infrastructure by Oct 31st and then pass Reconciliation and Debt Ceiling and Appropriation Bills by Dec 3rd but Biden hasn't yet agreed to minting a T dollar coin


Here's the D's plan B

Oct 31st Minting a T dollar coin and pass infrastructure

Debt Limit Increase Omnibus Appropriations Bills and 2.1T spending by Dec 3rd Deadline and By Dec 3rd Rs can fill up  Omnibus Appropriations Bills with as many Amendments

But the monkey wrench Biden hasn't agreed to minting a T dollar Coin, he was there as Veep when Obama said No

[emailking]

I really doubt we default. I think an increase or suspension will ultimately pass, but if not they'll do some kind of nuclear option (trillion dollar coin, ignore the debt ceiling, etc) to prevent the default.

[Pres Mike]

Question

Does the 3.5 trillion inculde the 1.6 trillion for the US budget in FY 2022? The additional 900 million was going to be spent over the next decade on social programs?

If its 1.5 trillion, what is being spent on social programs?

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

I really doubt we default. I think an increase or suspension will ultimately pass, but if not they'll do some kind of nuclear option (trillion dollar coin, ignore the debt ceiling, etc) to prevent the default.

Really Mcconnell just sent a letter to Biden saying go it alone in Debt Ceiling, Rs aren't gonna supply him with 10 votes, Biden is gonna address the Debt Ceiling
.
Manchin and Sinema are dead set against getting rid of Fillibuster and D's already have a Power Sharing Agreement, Rs already blocking State Dept nominees will start blocking judges if D's go back on their promise on Filibuster Reform

It ends 2022/ if D's win Trifecta again, 52 SEN the Filibuster is eliminated anyways

Biden said he is against Minting a T dollar coin, because it would elevate Rs from responsibility of creating debt with Trump tax cuts

[GP270watch]

it is a total waste of tax money to give the kids of rich families free community college, to give rich yuppies free daycare, and to give rich seniors free vision and dental.

  This really makes no sense. First off most rich families are not sending their kids to Community College and if they did, so what?

 Nobody would say it's a waste of tax payer money for rich people to call the firefighters when their house is on fire.

 If we appropriately taxed the rich with a progressive tax system, why shouldn't they enjoy the benefit of public education or socialized medicine, they've paid for it!

[ChineseConservative]

it is a total waste of tax money to give the kids of rich families free community college, to give rich yuppies free daycare, and to give rich seniors free vision and dental.

  This really makes no sense. First off most rich families are not sending their kids to Community College and if they did, so what?

 Nobody would say it's a waste of tax payer money for rich people to call the firefighters when their house is on fire.

 If we appropriately taxed the rich with a progressive tax system, why shouldn't they enjoy the benefit of public education or socialized medicine, they've paid for it!

What Matty is getting at is the new benefits geared towards community college benefits would disproportionately benefit wealthier taxpayers given that community college is heavily subsidized and practically free for low income earners, while it is not for high income earners.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Most people qualify for Pell Grants anyways, we need Student Loan reform because most people are going to Grad school and taking out loans to pay for school there isn't any financial aid and the Govt calls Student Loans financial aid

Most people in Undergrad took out loans for Dorm life and alot of people including athletes are going to school online, Free Community College is nothing now

Manchin and Sinema want it cut anyways

[wbrocks67]

So what is the most realistic summed up timeline here?

[Person Man]

it is a total waste of tax money to give the kids of rich families free community college, to give rich yuppies free daycare, and to give rich seniors free vision and dental.

  This really makes no sense. First off most rich families are not sending their kids to Community College and if they did, so what?

 Nobody would say it's a waste of tax payer money for rich people to call the firefighters when their house is on fire.

 If we appropriately taxed the rich with a progressive tax system, why shouldn't they enjoy the benefit of public education or socialized medicine, they've paid for it!

What Matty is getting at is the new benefits geared towards community college benefits would disproportionately benefit wealthier taxpayers given that community college is heavily subsidized and practically free for low income earners, while it is not for high income earners.

I’d be OK with a linear sliding scale like they use for SNAP or SSI.

[GP270watch]

it is a total waste of tax money to give the kids of rich families free community college, to give rich yuppies free daycare, and to give rich seniors free vision and dental.

  This really makes no sense. First off most rich families are not sending their kids to Community College and if they did, so what?

 Nobody would say it's a waste of tax payer money for rich people to call the firefighters when their house is on fire.

 If we appropriately taxed the rich with a progressive tax system, why shouldn't they enjoy the benefit of public education or socialized medicine, they've paid for it!

What Matty is getting at is the new benefits geared towards community college benefits would disproportionately benefit wealthier taxpayers given that community college is heavily subsidized and practically free for low income earners, while it is not for high income earners.

 He's wrong. There are associated costs with even Pell grants and it's a dumb inefficient system. The rich kid that goes to college doesn't have to deal with the Financial Aid office and the problems and snafus that can arise from this. Pell grants/student loans create an entire infrastructure that is actually wasteful. If colleges need a large Financial Aid office, those are resources and infrastructure that could be going to other things like professors or student learning resources. Go to any college Financial Aid office during enrollment and see for yourself. While technology has made some of this easier it's still a more wasteful system than college simply being publicly funded and actually free for everyone.

[jaichind]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-04/salt-cap-relief-faces-rollback-as-democrats-eye-less-spending

SALT-Cap Relief Faces Rollback as Democrats Eye Less Spending

[TiltsAreUnderrated]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-04/salt-cap-relief-faces-rollback-as-democrats-eye-less-spending

SALT-Cap Relief Faces Rollback as Democrats Eye Less Spending

Great news, and exactly what Gottheimer deserves for concern trolling.

[Person Man]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-04/salt-cap-relief-faces-rollback-as-democrats-eye-less-spending

SALT-Cap Relief Faces Rollback as Democrats Eye Less Spending

Great news, and exactly what Gottheimer deserves for concern trolling.

Guess I’m renting if and when I move.

[Pres Mike]

it is a total waste of tax money to give the kids of rich families free community college, to give rich yuppies free daycare, and to give rich seniors free vision and dental.

  This really makes no sense. First off most rich families are not sending their kids to Community College and if they did, so what?

 Nobody would say it's a waste of tax payer money for rich people to call the firefighters when their house is on fire.

 If we appropriately taxed the rich with a progressive tax system, why shouldn't they enjoy the benefit of public education or socialized medicine, they've paid for it!

What Matty is getting at is the new benefits geared towards community college benefits would disproportionately benefit wealthier taxpayers given that community college is heavily subsidized and practically free for low income earners, while it is not for high income earners.

I’d be OK with a linear sliding scale like they use for SNAP or SSI.

I'm find with means testing, but it needs to be generous

Community College is already free for low income people. Pell Grants are an option for about the lower half of the population

But about 80% of the population can not pay out of pocket. That is about 40% of the country that still needs more college aid

I am a big fan of SNAP, but it leaves out a lot of people who need it. I'm glad Biden raised the barriers but we need to raise the limit higher and increase benefits. Same for Pell Grant

I would double the current Pell Grant and increase eligbigty. I would also imposed a tution cap on all colleges/universities that use college loans/grants. Granted that doesn't help with housing or food, but we should really encourage more kids to live at home. I knew kids who had full rides on tution but had to go tens of thousands in debt to pay for housign???
 That would basically make college free for most people without actaully making it free. And Biden did promise that in the campaign

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

So what is the most realistic summed up timeline here?

They have until Oct 31 st to Raise Debt Ceiling and Mcconnell already said no to Biden to not blocking the Debt Ceiling

[ChineseConservative]

it is a total waste of tax money to give the kids of rich families free community college, to give rich yuppies free daycare, and to give rich seniors free vision and dental.

  This really makes no sense. First off most rich families are not sending their kids to Community College and if they did, so what?

 Nobody would say it's a waste of tax payer money for rich people to call the firefighters when their house is on fire.

 If we appropriately taxed the rich with a progressive tax system, why shouldn't they enjoy the benefit of public education or socialized medicine, they've paid for it!

What Matty is getting at is the new benefits geared towards community college benefits would disproportionately benefit wealthier taxpayers given that community college is heavily subsidized and practically free for low income earners, while it is not for high income earners.

I’d be OK with a linear sliding scale like they use for SNAP or SSI.

I'm find with means testing, but it needs to be generous

Community College is already free for low income people. Pell Grants are an option for about the lower half of the population

But about 80% of the population can not pay out of pocket. That is about 40% of the country that still needs more college aid

I am a big fan of SNAP, but it leaves out a lot of people who need it. I'm glad Biden raised the barriers but we need to raise the limit higher and increase benefits. Same for Pell Grant

I would double the current Pell Grant and increase eligbigty. I would also imposed a tution cap on all colleges/universities that use college loans/grants. Granted that doesn't help with housing or food, but we should really encourage more kids to live at home. I knew kids who had full rides on tution but had to go tens of thousands in debt to pay for housign???
 That would basically make college free for most people without actaully making it free. And Biden did promise that in the campaign

Quite contrary to conservatives overall I believe that four year public colleges should be free for all permitting a student has 1). 1200 SAT or higher 2). practical degrees with decent ROI in engineering, accounting, nursing, etc. It would be nice if colleges required macroeconomics and statistics as well.
The pays for can be addressed by barring the bottom ~25 percent of middle schoolers from enrolling in high school and thereby free up those resources.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

McConnell just rejected Biden to raise Debt Ceiling on 51 not 60 votes, Cruz is the one Filibustered the Debt Ceiling he was upset with Boehner on even Budget caps with raising Debt Ceiling in 2011/13, with Biden as Veep and Obama

[jojoju1998]

it is a total waste of tax money to give the kids of rich families free community college, to give rich yuppies free daycare, and to give rich seniors free vision and dental.

  This really makes no sense. First off most rich families are not sending their kids to Community College and if they did, so what?

 Nobody would say it's a waste of tax payer money for rich people to call the firefighters when their house is on fire.

 If we appropriately taxed the rich with a progressive tax system, why shouldn't they enjoy the benefit of public education or socialized medicine, they've paid for it!

What Matty is getting at is the new benefits geared towards community college benefits would disproportionately benefit wealthier taxpayers given that community college is heavily subsidized and practically free for low income earners, while it is not for high income earners.

I’d be OK with a linear sliding scale like they use for SNAP or SSI.

I'm find with means testing, but it needs to be generous

Community College is already free for low income people. Pell Grants are an option for about the lower half of the population

But about 80% of the population can not pay out of pocket. That is about 40% of the country that still needs more college aid

I am a big fan of SNAP, but it leaves out a lot of people who need it. I'm glad Biden raised the barriers but we need to raise the limit higher and increase benefits. Same for Pell Grant

I would double the current Pell Grant and increase eligbigty. I would also imposed a tution cap on all colleges/universities that use college loans/grants. Granted that doesn't help with housing or food, but we should really encourage more kids to live at home. I knew kids who had full rides on tution but had to go tens of thousands in debt to pay for housign???
 That would basically make college free for most people without actaully making it free. And Biden did promise that in the campaign

Quite contrary to conservatives overall I believe that four year public colleges should be free for all permitting a student has 1). 1200 SAT or higher 2). practical degrees with decent ROI in engineering, accounting, nursing, etc. It would be nice if colleges required macroeconomics and statistics as well.
The pays for can be addressed by barring the bottom ~25 percent of middle schoolers from enrolling in high school and thereby free up those resources.

4 year public colleges are already mostly free if you have that high of grades; and if you're majoring in a STEM Field.

You get scholarships.

[Person Man]

it is a total waste of tax money to give the kids of rich families free community college, to give rich yuppies free daycare, and to give rich seniors free vision and dental.

  This really makes no sense. First off most rich families are not sending their kids to Community College and if they did, so what?

 Nobody would say it's a waste of tax payer money for rich people to call the firefighters when their house is on fire.

 If we appropriately taxed the rich with a progressive tax system, why shouldn't they enjoy the benefit of public education or socialized medicine, they've paid for it!

What Matty is getting at is the new benefits geared towards community college benefits would disproportionately benefit wealthier taxpayers given that community college is heavily subsidized and practically free for low income earners, while it is not for high income earners.

I’d be OK with a linear sliding scale like they use for SNAP or SSI.

I'm find with means testing, but it needs to be generous

Community College is already free for low income people. Pell Grants are an option for about the lower half of the population

But about 80% of the population can not pay out of pocket. That is about 40% of the country that still needs more college aid

I am a big fan of SNAP, but it leaves out a lot of people who need it. I'm glad Biden raised the barriers but we need to raise the limit higher and increase benefits. Same for Pell Grant

I would double the current Pell Grant and increase eligbigty. I would also imposed a tution cap on all colleges/universities that use college loans/grants. Granted that doesn't help with housing or food, but we should really encourage more kids to live at home. I knew kids who had full rides on tution but had to go tens of thousands in debt to pay for housign???
 That would basically make college free for most people without actaully making it free. And Biden did promise that in the campaign

Quite contrary to conservatives overall I believe that four year public colleges should be free for all permitting a student has 1). 1200 SAT or higher 2). practical degrees with decent ROI in engineering, accounting, nursing, etc. It would be nice if colleges required macroeconomics and statistics as well.
The pays for can be addressed by barring the bottom ~25 percent of middle schoolers from enrolling in high school and thereby free up those resources.

1200 puts you in the top quarter and a 1350 puts you in the top tenth.