California sets precedent by breaking down Black employee data by lineage

[ηєω ƒяσηтιєя]

https://mobile.twitter.com/axios/status/1557606357087539200
https://mobile.twitter.com/axios/status/1557565960093143040

If I lived in CA, this wouldn't apply to me. I'm Black but my parents are (Afro-)Jamaican immigrants. This would apply to Black/African Americans who are descendants of slavery here in the United States. I don't have a problem with this, I just wonder how this will be proved.

Personally, on a separate note, I think that Jamaica should seek restitution/reparations from the UK (but I know that this will never happen).

[Bootes Void]

This has to be reported because I just can’t imagine the government asking for a dna or a 23andme test, that would be going way too far.

[Farmlands]

Orwellian, virtue-signalling California politics at their finest. And better than working on reducing homelessness, it seems.

[ηєω ƒяσηтιєя]

This has to be reported because I just can’t imagine the government asking for a dna or a 23andme test, that would be going way too far.

Yeah, unless self-reported. How could this be proved outside of genealogy?

Orwellian, virtue-signalling California politics at their finest. And better than working on reducing homelessness, it seems.

Well, Black/African American advocacy groups pushed for it. So yeah....

[It’s so Joever]

Based. The more specific data we can get the better.

[Born to Slay. Forced to Work.]

Would this not apply to descendants of slaves from other slave colonies (Jamaica, Brazil, Haiti etc.)? If so I wonder what their line of thought is for that

[Horus]

Would this not apply to descendants of slaves from other slave colonies (Jamaica, Brazil, Haiti etc.)? If so I wonder what their line of thought is for that

In the cases of Jamaica and Haiti, those who've made it to America tend to be middle to upper middle class and are often somewhat different culturally from ADOS so the distinction makes sense. But the way they're phrasing it sounds weird.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

This reminds me (with the 23andme points) of a point I've made in the past which is that a lot of woke policies or recommendations (even if it's just theoretical in most cases and more of an "advisory" thing) isn't really feasible without clearly defined official racial categories assigned to everyone like in South Africa and that such discussion often devolves into a sort of neo-skull measuring (see the talk after the Boulder supermarket shooting about if the perpetrator counted as a "white male".)

That said I have been saying for awhile that lumping in African-Americans with other groups of black people as just "black" (like people do here with African immigrants even though they definitely don't act as a coherent community) is quite silly.

[GP270watch]

California has been "studying" reparations, you would need some way to clearly delineate who qualifies.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Embracing their Spanish Empire heritage, I see.

[ηєω ƒяσηтιєя]

Would this not apply to descendants of slaves from other slave colonies (Jamaica, Brazil, Haiti etc.)? If so I wonder what their line of thought is for that

Yeah, I already explained everything in the OP. It only applies to descendants of AMERICAN slavery.

In the cases of Jamaica and Haiti, those who've made it to America tend to be middle to upper middle class and are often somewhat different culturally from ADOS so the distinction makes sense. But the way they're phrasing it sounds weird.

Um, no. As the son of Jamaican immigrants myself, most Jamaican immigrants to the U.S. are NOT by any means "middle to upper middle class". Most are poor to working-class (of course, not all). The same applies to Haiti and immigrants from other majority-Black countries.

However, of course, many Black immigrants work up the economic ladder and end up in the middle class (and sometimes upper middle class).

[Tintrlvr]

Would this not apply to descendants of slaves from other slave colonies (Jamaica, Brazil, Haiti etc.)? If so I wonder what their line of thought is for that

In the cases of Jamaica and Haiti, those who've made it to America tend to be middle to upper middle class and are often somewhat different culturally from ADOS so the distinction makes sense. But the way they're phrasing it sounds weird.

But there are lots of wealthy and upper-middle class ADOS as well, certainly more than there are wealthy and upper middle class Jamaican or Haitian immigrants (the idea that such immigrants are predominantly well off when taken as a whole and in an American context is pretty laughable, honestly, even if they are the middle class of Jamaica or Haiti). And those wealthy and upper-middle class ADOS, perhaps not irrelevantly to this discussion, tend to end up as the primary beneficiaries of affirmative action and similar policies to begin with over actually impoverished ADOS or immigrant families. Ultimately, this reads like privilege-protection by the Jack and Jill set: Not for the first time.

[ηєω ƒяσηтιєя]

Technically, President Obama would be able to qualify for this. Ironically, he's a descendant of American slavery on his mother's side lol.

One of his mother's ancestors was a Black man named John Punch who was enslaved in Virginia in the 17th century. John Punch's descendants obviously married and procreated with White people and thus.............you know what happened lol.

[Schiff for Senate]

I'm fine with this as long as they don't even think about giving out reparations to those people.

[MiddleRoad]

This seems a way to say “These Blacks are the oppressed Blacks, the others aren’t”

[ملكة كرينجيتوك]

In the cases of Jamaica and Haiti, those who've made it to America tend to be middle to upper middle class and are often somewhat different culturally from ADOS so the distinction makes sense. But the way they're phrasing it sounds weird.

Um, no. As the son of Jamaican immigrants myself, most Jamaican immigrants to the U.S. are NOT by any means "middle to upper middle class". Most are poor to working-class (of course, not all). The same applies to Haiti and immigrants from other majority-Black countries.

However, of course, many Black immigrants work up the economic ladder and end up in the middle class (and sometimes upper middle class).

I guess it depends on who you know from school, college, work, and the local community. There are definitely a fair amount of African immigrants (usually from Nigeria, Ethiopia/Eritrea, and Somalia in my experience) and/or the children of immigrants in pre-professional tracks and certain STEM majors. Often their parents were professionals, teachers, or other relatively well-off/middle-class occupations in their home countries.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Next someone is going to notice that there is a difference between Taiwanese-Americans and refugees from Myanmar.

[It’s so Joever]

Next someone is going to notice that there is a difference between Taiwanese-Americans and refugees from Myanmar.

I would love that data too tbh.

[ηєω ƒяσηтιєя]

I guess it depends on who you know from school, college, work, and the local community. There are definitely a fair amount of African immigrants (usually from Nigeria, Ethiopia/Eritrea, and Somalia in my experience) and/or the children of immigrants in pre-professional tracks and certain STEM majors. Often their parents were professionals, teachers, or other relatively well-off/middle-class occupations in their home countries.

Definitely, that's why I said that it wasn't the case for all Black immigrants but for many/most (depending on the nationality/ethnicity).

My mother ran a successful mini-market (not in Jamaica but another island) but she had to leave that all behind. Growing up, I was on welfare/food stamps for a couple years until she got better paying jobs. My mom worked her way up doing different jobs and then got her Master's degree, now she's a public school teacher here in NYC and makes a decent salary.

Pretty typical hard-working immigrant story lol.

[Alben Barkley]

Absolutely idiotic. Most black people in the world are descendants of victims of slavery and/or colonialism, and more importantly racism still affecting black people in the US today is not limited by DNA. By that kind of logic, Obama wasn’t “really black” and thus his accomplishment means less  because his father was Kenyan and his mother white. This is unnecessarily further divisive and discriminatory nonsense. It helps nobody and accomplishes nothing, to say nothing of the logistical challenges of even recording accurate data.

[ηєω ƒяσηтιєя]

This seems a way to say “These Blacks are the oppressed Blacks, the others aren’t”

Not really, just acknowledging our differences. Just like how not all White people are the same. A Serbian has very little in common with a White American, for example.

The only thing I will push back on is some of the rhetoric that SOME (not most or all) Black/African Americans will expose about Black immigrants. Some will say that Black immigrants are "leeches", "tethers", "aren't really Black", "ungrateful", etc. That's wrong and ignorant.

Of course, SOME (not most or all) Black people from Africa & the Caribbean will say stupid & ignorant stuff about Black/African Americans too. That's also unacceptable.

[Alben Barkley]

This seems a way to say “These Blacks are the oppressed Blacks, the others aren’t”

Not really, just acknowledging our differences. Just like how not all White people are the same. A Serbian has very little in common with a White American, for example.

The only thing I will push back on is some of the rhetoric that SOME (not most or all) Black/African Americans will expose about Black immigrants. Some will say that Black immigrants are "leeches", "tethers", "aren't really Black", "ungrateful", etc. That's wrong and ignorant.

Of course, SOME (not most or all) Black people from Africa & the Caribbean will say stupid & ignorant stuff about Black/African Americans too. That's also unacceptable.

My ancestors were indentured servants, about as close to slaves as whites ever got in this country. Yet it would be absurd for me to get special privileges or anything today by recording this, which is why data is generally reported as just “white” for all white people. Racism today is based on people’s knee-jerk perceptions of skin color, not DNA tests.

[ηєω ƒяσηтιєя]

My ancestors were indentured servants, about as close to slaves as whites ever got in this country. Yet it would be absurd for me to get special privileges or anything today by recording this, which is why data is generally reported as just “white” for all white people. Racism today is based on people’s knee-jerk perceptions of skin color, not DNA tests.

Well, slavery =/= indentured servitude. Also, deeply entrenched systemic racism against Black Americans didn't stop when slavery ended.

Anyways, I've said multiple times that this would be pretty hard to prove. This would have to be done through self-reporting (which can be dubious) or genealogy (which would be expensive and kind of problematic).

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

Technically, President Obama would be able to qualify for this. Ironically, he's a descendant of American slavery on his mother's side lol.

One of his mother's ancestors was a Black man named John Punch who was enslaved in Virginia in the 17th century. John Punch's descendants obviously married and procreated with White people and thus.............you know what happened lol.

Obama would qualify but his own mother would not? That seems, idk... kinda silly doesn't it? From a racial ancestry perspective the only difference between the two is that Obama has an African (non-ADOS!) father and his mother does not. This is quite literally the opposite outcome of what the program is designed to do. Dunham quite literally has more ADOS ancestry than her son does and by the logic this program is premised on she should be more deserving of benefits than him.

This seems like a perverse case of technocratic meddling and a disturbing neoliberal means-testing mindset. Who cares if some of the advantage meant for ADOS is accrued by non-ADOS people (who also face some forms of discrimination based on their appearance)? Particularly if it leads to hair-splitting and potential deprivation in cases like the one you are highlighting. If you believe the premise that you can accurately categorize someone's race at all, you should just give benefits to anybody with any form of African ancestry. Seems not too different from imposing stringent limits on who gets welfare or unemployment - liberals shouldn't believe this!

[Senator Incitatus]

Sub-Saharan Africa is the most genetically diverse place in the world and any government which accounts for genetic heritage while lumping all SSAs into one category is occupying an absurd middle-ground.