Biden infrastructure/tax increase megathread

[emailking]

This plan sounds sexy af.

[emailking]

What is SALT and why does it matter?

A tax deduction that allows high tax states to fund social services, like schools, without needing insanely high tax rates.

Why is Biden against it?

That is misleading ,

SALT is an itemized deduction that lets you deduct State and Local taxes on your tax return . Keep in mind that the deduction is only beneficial if you have total itemized deductions of over $12,400 for singes  and $24,800 for joint filers .

So basically unless you are already pretty affluent, that deduction will very likely not benefit you

No....

Just no, look at the map I posted earlier, it puts this myth to rest.

Do you know that you can’t even deduct state and local taxes if you dont use the itemized deduction

Yeah, I haven't been able to deduct them since they approx doubled the standard deduction and took away the exemption for yourself. Because I'd lose money if I itemized.

which is obviously not true although this year they are allowing people to deduct up to $300 of cash based charitable contributions even you itemize.

Uggh, wish I'd known about that before I did my taxes. I could have took that. Haven't been able to take the charitable deduction the last few years, for the same reason.

[emailking]

https://twitter.com/jasonintrator/status/1382000789196058626

I had to read this 5 times before I could understand it.

[emailking]

I mean his position is basically the same as Biden's, plus it looks like there might be a deal so I don't see why he'd say otherwise now.

[emailking]

I think it's very likely this deal passes. It's also likely the reconciliation bill passes unless the Dems lose a Senator.

[emailking]

Everything Republicans did in 2017 and 2018 was unpopular. The tax cuts and Obamacare repeal is NOT what the American people want. Hence McCain oppossing it

He didn't vote on the tax bill because of his illness but said he supported it. He said he voted against Obamacare repeal on process grounds, because it did not follow regular order.

[emailking]

Wow, a real beauty of a bill if early reports are to be believed. If they can pass this, Biden becomes the greatest American president since FDR.

How would this be that much bigger of an achievement than what W did with Medicare Part D

Combine it with the American Rescue, vaccine rollout, and the Afghanistan withdrawal, and probably upcoming voting rights bill to save American democracy and you can make a really strong case.

Probably? Are you saying Manchin's going to nuke the filibuster or the parliamentarian will rule it doesn't apply to voting rights bills?

[emailking]

The Senate is going to take up the reconciliation bill right away and the House is on vacation so I don't think it matters. They'll come back to both.

[emailking]

What's going on now with it?

They're working through amendments. McConnell urged Schumer to let it play out to keep everyone happy on his side.

[emailking]

If Biden ends up pulling this off I believe the big lesson for both parties should be that experience really does matter. I understand that both sides want an outsider who has not been in Washington for too long, but just look at how that worked out for Trump when he tried to pass his health care bill and immigration reform or even Obama when he struggled to pass anything else after the ACA was signed into law in 2010

I think there's truth to this. But also remember that ACA happened because Obama kept pushing it through when everyone else had given up after Brown's election.

[emailking]

Yeah that's fair.

We'll see what happens. Obama got 2 heavy lifts through during the trifecta, and if Biden gets this it will be 2 heavy lifts as well. We'll see if he can do more.

[emailking]

Yeah that's fair.

We'll see what happens. Obama got 2 heavy lifts through during the trifecta, and if Biden gets this it will be 2 heavy lifts as well. We'll see if he can do more.

I still think his agenda is essentially over after this and the probable passing of the reconciliation bill.

Why are people forgetting the FY 2023 bill? We could pass it before the midterms and have the public option in it. A public option could solve the biggest problems we have with healthcare

I'm not forgetting it, I just don't see a public option happening. But ok if he gets that, and this, that's 3 big lifts. But I bet most of next year will be spent trying to fund the government and deal with the debt ceiling.

[emailking]

50-49 on the rec process, apparently with one Republican absence rather than Harris breaking a tie.

Mike Rounds is with his wife who's having cancer treatments.

[emailking]

The budget resolution passed overnight, 50-49 party line. That's not the legislation. Once the House passes it too they can use reconciliation to pass it.

[emailking]

The budget resolution passed overnight, 50-49 party line. That's not the legislation. Once the House passes it too they can use reconciliation to pass it.

Wait, I just woke up, you mean the bigger reconciliation bill?

Because I thought the whole point of this other one was that it wouldn’t require reconciliation

They passed the ~1 trillion infrastructure bill. House just has to pass it. The budget resolution is a 3.5 trillion framework for the budget. House needs to pass that and then the Senate can pass the reconciliation bill that enacts it. That needs reconciliation because Republicans don't support it.

[emailking]

I agree with her. It's probably a bluff.

[emailking]

One way to get around this is to pass an Infrastructure bill that has a small change, like the controversial bitcoin stuff. That then can't become law right away since it has to go back to the Senate, and these guys lose their leverage.

[emailking]

From same Politico article.

On Sunday Speaker Nancy Pelosi said her members were still pursuing a bill that costs $3.5 trillion, but are hoping to finance it in part with tax enforcement and tax increases on the wealthy and corporations. Meanwhile, moderates in Pelosi's caucus are declining to back the Senate-passed budget unless Pelosi puts Sinema’s Senate-passed bipartisan infrastructure bill up for a vote on the House floor.

In statement shortly after Sinema's, Manchin leaned on Pelosi and House leaders to act now on the $550 billion bipartisan infrastructure bill instead of waiting for the Senate to pass a massive spending bill.

"It would send a terrible message to the American people if this bipartisan bill is held hostage. I urge my colleagues in the House to move swiftly to get this once in a generation legislation to the President’s desk for his signature," Manchin said.

He's right. They're right.

They've got a year and a half to pass that and will have a lot of Republican votes to help if the budget falls apart. There's no real harm in Pelosi's approach. They just don't want to have to vote yes on the budget bill.

[emailking]

If the progressives don't have a reconciliation bill from the Senate to their liking by the 27th, can't they just vote down the bipartisan bill, and we're back where we are now? The House can pass a bill it previously voted down, right?

[emailking]

But what I mean is I don't see how the Sept 27 date is leverage really. They have a year and half to pass the bipartisan bill. I don't think this ends with nothing passed, because they'll eventually pass it if the Senate gives them nothing useful.

[emailking]

If the trends hold (recent polling shows that it will) in the suburbs, Sinema probably loses the primary and Democrats will never be able to win the senate or WH again without Arizona.

That seems highly speculative.

[emailking]

The Dem strategy utterly baffles me here. Manchin is not folding, and the Dems do not have the votes for anything over 2 trillion, if even that.  Their strategy seems designed to irritate Manchin, if anything, and heck, he may do a F you, and go down to 1 trillion. Then the Dems have a choice of either 1) getting nothing, with the infrastructure bill going down the tubes if the squad does their thing, in which event, the 2022 cycle will be a disaster for them, or 2) folding and looking like fools, with all that perfervid rhetoric, all hat and no cattle. If you don't have the votes, don't go there, pretending that you do. Take what you can, and wait for another day. McConnell knew what he was doing from the get-go. It appears that team Schumer did not.

I also view such massive spending as a risky scheme at present, given all the unknowns and wheels turning out there. I understand that the Dems wanted to seize the moment, and window of opportunity, that may close later and for a long time. They are doing it however without my support, but then obviously the last thing on their mind is my opinion about anything. Their loss, not mine! 

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/571605-manchin-sanders-set-for-clash-over-biden-spending-package

If it gets voted down by the Progressives, they can pass it later. They have a year and a half to pass the bipartisan bill. They could do it November 7th if they want. Maybe Manchin will still be dug in by then, but the Squad won't be. There's nothing lost by waiting a few weeks to see if Manchin and Sinema can be moved. It will eventually be law either way.

[emailking]

The numbers I can find range 27.8T to 28.5T.

[emailking]

The "progressive" fools who are blocking the infrastructure bill are going to end up sinking the party in the midterm if they don't fold.

Can't you say the same thing about Manchin blocking the reconciliation bill and sinking the party?

[emailking]

The "progressive" fools who are blocking the infrastructure bill are going to end up sinking the party in the midterm if they don't fold.

Can't you say the same thing about Manchin blocking the reconciliation bill and sinking the party?

Manchin is from hostile territory where no other Democrats win, so he's excused,

Whether you think it's ok for him to do that or not, is it not in fact true the same way it is true for the Progressives?