Biden infrastructure/tax increase megathread

[Ferguson97]

Why was Sinema disguised as a traffic cone?

Well, she is known for "middle of the road" politics..

[ηєω ƒяσηтιєя]

Why was Sinema disguised as a traffic cone?

'Cuz she's a roadblock to progress.

[roxas11]

A major bipartisan victory like this is hard to come by, so I'm not sure why Democrats want to imperil its chances by tying it to a much more partisan package. They should just pass it now and worry about everything else later.

If they take that approach the rest of Biden agenda will die the second the bipartisan infrastructure bill passes.

Because make no mistake now that the moderates got what the wanted there is now no reason for them to go along with the second part of Biden's agenda. The fact that Joe Manchin or kyrsten sinema has still not thrown thier full support behind the second part of Bidens plan is very telling.

[CookieDamage]

A major bipartisan victory like this is hard to come by, so I'm not sure why Democrats want to imperil its chances by tying it to a much more partisan package. They should just pass it now and worry about everything else later.

Probably cuz a partisan package is also a more effective and necessary package that actually has a chance to positively affect infrastructure.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

A major bipartisan victory like this is hard to come by, so I'm not sure why Democrats want to imperil its chances by tying it to a much more partisan package. They should just pass it now and worry about everything else later.

Because this bipartisan victory only covers a small fraction of what needs to be done (notably childcare and eldercare were left out because something something roads and bridges) and this is the only way to get to habitual traitors to go along.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

While I should probably wait to see how all of this plays out over the coming year before reflecting, I think that Biden has stumped me. The past few months played into classic "Obungler" scripts, where a bumbling Democratic administration gets strung along chasing the "bipartisan" opiate, but, in reality, Biden was running circles around Republicans, intending to capitulate, agreeing to pass some pathetic "bipartisan" bill to appease narcissists like Manchin and low IQ Beltway schmucks. This should allow him to rally the support of 50 Senate votes in favor of a massive reconciliation bill, as Manchin got his photo op, and it will make Biden look "bipartisan", even as Democrats will ram through a New Deal/Great Society type reconciliation bill that is extremely partisan.

Joey B owns the cons once again!

[Motorcity]

A major bipartisan victory like this is hard to come by, so I'm not sure why Democrats want to imperil its chances by tying it to a much more partisan package. They should just pass it now and worry about everything else later.

Because this bipartisan victory only covers a small fraction of what needs to be done (notably childcare and eldercare were left out because something something roads and bridges) and this is the only way to get to habitual traitors to go along.

Look

I would prefer Democrats put everything in reconciliation. And kill the filibuster. And Medicare for All.

But we don’t live in that world. It could be worst. David Perdue could have won 0.4% in November and killed any chance of anything for Democrats. Than a outright fascist wins in 2024.

We still need to deal with Manchin/Sinema. Give them what they want. Negotiations with Republicans. A bipartisan bill.

Than we pass the other stuff with reconciliation. Easy enough.

We still need them for the FY 2023 bill. We still need a public option. And student loan forgiveness and free college and teacher raises.

If appeasing a few moderate senates by spendings months talking will give us the largest agenda since the great society, so be it 

[YE]

https://twitter.com/seungminkim/status/1408129053840785413?s=21


This is why Biden is the best president since LBJ.

[compucomp]

https://twitter.com/seungminkim/status/1408129053840785413?s=21
This is why Biden is the best president since LBJ.

He might not be signing any infrastructure bill at this rate, if Republicans back out of the deal and then Manchin/Sinema refuse to sign on to the reconciliation. This statement has the potential to end up like one of Obama's red lines.

[YE]

https://twitter.com/seungminkim/status/1408129053840785413?s=21

This is why Biden is the best president since LBJ.

He might not be signing any infrastructure bill at this rate, if Republicans back out of the deal and then Manchin/Sinema refuse to sign on to the reconciliation.

Manchin has at least already signaled support for the reconciliation.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

https://twitter.com/seungminkim/status/1408129053840785413?s=21

This is why Biden is the best president since LBJ.

He might not be signing any infrastructure bill at this rate, if Republicans back out of the deal and then Manchin/Sinema refuse to sign on to the reconciliation.

Neither Manchin nor Sinema would refuse to pass a large infrastructure and "families" bill if Republicans back out of this deal.

[CookieDamage]

A major bipartisan victory like this is hard to come by, so I'm not sure why Democrats want to imperil its chances by tying it to a much more partisan package. They should just pass it now and worry about everything else later.

Because this bipartisan victory only covers a small fraction of what needs to be done (notably childcare and eldercare were left out because something something roads and bridges) and this is the only way to get to habitual traitors to go along.

Look

I would prefer Democrats put everything in reconciliation. And kill the filibuster. And Medicare for All.

But we don’t live in that world. It could be worst. David Perdue could have won 0.4% in November and killed any chance of anything for Democrats. Than a outright fascist wins in 2024.

We still need to deal with Manchin/Sinema. Give them what they want. Negotiations with Republicans. A bipartisan bill.

Um... that's what happened.

Than we pass the other stuff with reconciliation. Easy enough.

We still need them for the FY 2023 bill. We still need a public option. And student loan forgiveness and free college and teacher raises.

If appeasing a few moderate senates by spendings months talking will give us the largest agenda since the great society, so be it 

That's what... Biden wants to happen... And what everyone in here is advocating for.

[CookieDamage]

Anyways, I don't think Manchin or Sinema will outright reject a large reconciliation bill. Maybe they'll have it pared down in some ways (e.g. not supporting a $6T deal but a $3T deal), but I don't think they'll just flat out refuse to vote for one.

They just got what they want: A bipartisan deal and an opportunity to be #ModerateHeroes. Now, they give what Biden/Schumer wants. At least Manchin has signaled willingness for it (and HR1/S1).

[Obama-Biden Democrat]

Manchin came through!

https://twitter.com/potus/status/1408103224817639432?s=21

Trump had 4 years of infrastructure weeks and failed. Biden got it done in 5 months.

[Motorcity]

A major bipartisan victory like this is hard to come by, so I'm not sure why Democrats want to imperil its chances by tying it to a much more partisan package. They should just pass it now and worry about everything else later.

Because this bipartisan victory only covers a small fraction of what needs to be done (notably childcare and eldercare were left out because something something roads and bridges) and this is the only way to get to habitual traitors to go along.

Look

I would prefer Democrats put everything in reconciliation. And kill the filibuster. And Medicare for All.

But we don’t live in that world. It could be worst. David Perdue could have won 0.4% in November and killed any chance of anything for Democrats. Than a outright fascist wins in 2024.

We still need to deal with Manchin/Sinema. Give them what they want. Negotiations with Republicans. A bipartisan bill.

Um... that's what happened.

Than we pass the other stuff with reconciliation. Easy enough.

We still need them for the FY 2023 bill. We still need a public option. And student loan forgiveness and free college and teacher raises.

If appeasing a few moderate senates by spendings months talking will give us the largest agenda since the great society, so be it 

That's what... Biden wants to happen... And what everyone in here is advocating for.

Several posters are calling the deal garbage, not realizing everything else we want will be in reconciliation

[AndyHogan14]

Will progressive Dems in the House be OK with this? Also, if Bernie or any other progressive Dem in the Senate votes against this - will there be enough Senate Rs who vote in favor?

Those are major outstanding questions that need to be answered.

I very much doubt that Sanders or any other progressive D in the Senate would vote to filibuster the deal. They might not vote for final passage, but that should not be a problem being that final passage will only require 51 votes.

[H. Ross Peron]

There seems to be assumption that the Dems have 50 votes locked down for more, a lot more, in reconciliation. What is that based on? And why is it assumed that the "moderate" Pubs don't have some assurance as to how much more Manchin/Sinema, etc. will go for in reconciliation, before delivery their votes for more than they might like in a 60 vote bill? Why in compromise give up more than you would like, and would otherwise agree to, if you held the whip on the high ground, in exchange for basically nothing? The only way that would make sense is if the gang of 11 thought that it was in their, or the Pub party's, interest, to do so, come election time.

I am not really asserting the "progressives" here are wrong, and the "Torie Dem" is right, I am just asking if there is a piece of the puzzle that I am missing.

The Torie Dem is concerned personally, that spending on steroids, with not much pay for, or pseudo pay for, or counterproductive pay for, has negative long term consequences, including for the "progressives" down the line. I hope I am wrong on that - not for me personally with a relatively  short half life, stick it to me baby, but for those who will be around considerably longer.

By the way, putting "controversial" words is "quotes" is my shield. Just a hat tip for you young punks out there, who in so short a time have otherwise lapped me in knowledge and perspicacity. May the force be with you.

I think progressives would be happy to pay for all this new spending in part with a rollback of Trump's tax cuts on the wealthy while retaining the SALT deduction cap removal. It is the moderates in the Democratic Party who are opposed to that.

[emailking]

I think it's very likely this deal passes. It's also likely the reconciliation bill passes unless the Dems lose a Senator.

[CookieDamage]

A major bipartisan victory like this is hard to come by, so I'm not sure why Democrats want to imperil its chances by tying it to a much more partisan package. They should just pass it now and worry about everything else later.

Because this bipartisan victory only covers a small fraction of what needs to be done (notably childcare and eldercare were left out because something something roads and bridges) and this is the only way to get to habitual traitors to go along.

Look

I would prefer Democrats put everything in reconciliation. And kill the filibuster. And Medicare for All.

But we don’t live in that world. It could be worst. David Perdue could have won 0.4% in November and killed any chance of anything for Democrats. Than a outright fascist wins in 2024.

We still need to deal with Manchin/Sinema. Give them what they want. Negotiations with Republicans. A bipartisan bill.

Um... that's what happened.

Than we pass the other stuff with reconciliation. Easy enough.

We still need them for the FY 2023 bill. We still need a public option. And student loan forgiveness and free college and teacher raises.

If appeasing a few moderate senates by spendings months talking will give us the largest agenda since the great society, so be it 

That's what... Biden wants to happen... And what everyone in here is advocating for.

Several posters are calling the deal garbage, not realizing everything else we want will be in reconciliation

Because this current deal is garbo.

[WD]

From the looks of it, the bipartisan bill is quite solid and a serious compromise. Take that, along with the much bigger reconciliation bill (which will include all the good stuff like tax increases on higher incomes, Paid leave, the rest of the Families plan, etc) and Biden’s got a great win which will play well with the public, and really impact people’s lives. Choosing infrastructure as his main legislative push was an excellent decision on Biden’s part.

[brucejoel99]

A major bipartisan victory like this is hard to come by, so I'm not sure why Democrats want to imperil its chances by tying it to a much more partisan package. They should just pass it now and worry about everything else later.

Because this bipartisan victory only covers a small fraction of what needs to be done (notably childcare and eldercare were left out because something something roads and bridges) and this is the only way to get to habitual traitors to go along.

Look

I would prefer Democrats put everything in reconciliation. And kill the filibuster. And Medicare for All.

But we don’t live in that world. It could be worst. David Perdue could have won 0.4% in November and killed any chance of anything for Democrats. Than a outright fascist wins in 2024.

We still need to deal with Manchin/Sinema. Give them what they want. Negotiations with Republicans. A bipartisan bill.

Um... that's what happened.

Than we pass the other stuff with reconciliation. Easy enough.

We still need them for the FY 2023 bill. We still need a public option. And student loan forgiveness and free college and teacher raises.

If appeasing a few moderate senates by spendings months talking will give us the largest agenda since the great society, so be it 

That's what... Biden wants to happen... And what everyone in here is advocating for.

Several posters are calling the deal garbage, not realizing everything else we want will be in reconciliation

Because this current deal is garbo.

Um... yes, posters such as yourself are calling this deal garbage, yet haven't actually been able to say precisely what about it - in your opinion - is "garbo" given that we're gonna be walking out of this in the end with everything that we sought? If the bipartisan negotiations & bill were the only way to get Manchin & Sinema on-board to vote for a reconciliation package consisting of everything that we weren't able to include in the bipartisan bill, then that's not "garbo." That's just a win-win.

[MillennialModerate]

A major bipartisan victory like this is hard to come by, so I'm not sure why Democrats want to imperil its chances by tying it to a much more partisan package. They should just pass it now and worry about everything else later.

Because this bipartisan victory only covers a small fraction of what needs to be done (notably childcare and eldercare were left out because something something roads and bridges) and this is the only way to get to habitual traitors to go along.

Look

I would prefer Democrats put everything in reconciliation. And kill the filibuster. And Medicare for All.

But we don’t live in that world. It could be worst. David Perdue could have won 0.4% in November and killed any chance of anything for Democrats. Than a outright fascist wins in 2024.

We still need to deal with Manchin/Sinema. Give them what they want. Negotiations with Republicans. A bipartisan bill.

Um... that's what happened.

Than we pass the other stuff with reconciliation. Easy enough.

We still need them for the FY 2023 bill. We still need a public option. And student loan forgiveness and free college and teacher raises.

If appeasing a few moderate senates by spendings months talking will give us the largest agenda since the great society, so be it 

That's what... Biden wants to happen... And what everyone in here is advocating for.

Several posters are calling the deal garbage, not realizing everything else we want will be in reconciliation

Because this current deal is garbo.

Um... yes, posters such as yourself are calling this deal garbage, yet haven't actually been able to say precisely what about it - in your opinion - is "garbo"

I can. What’s garbage is the simple amount.

Especially on major rail transit projects. Major rail projects raise property values, spur enormous development around stations. And make life far easier for those who live near them. Not to mention taking cars off the road.

Other nations have spent enormous amounts of money into building tons of needed rail projects while lack of political will from the federal government and insane construction costs have stopped this country from doing so.

Canada is building 4 new subway lines. The UK is completing cross rail - one of the most innovative and complex infrastructure projects in the world. China has built a dozen HSR lines and entire metro systems in 20 years time.

This bill should have included roughly $200B in rail public transit and another $200 in HSR lines.

It would be transformational to cities like Los Angeles especially. Austin, Nashville. Boston and New York as well.

[MillennialModerate]

I like the idea of bipartisanship and bipartisan deals but when the numbers are so obviously in the other direction the gesture of bipartisanship feels hollow to me

[wbrocks67]

From the looks of it, the bipartisan bill is quite solid and a serious compromise. Take that, along with the much bigger reconciliation bill (which will include all the good stuff like tax increases on higher incomes, Paid leave, the rest of the Families plan, etc) and Biden’s got a great win which will play well with the public, and really impact people’s lives. Choosing infrastructure as his main legislative push was an excellent decision on Biden’s part.

people really dont give him enough credit for how savvy he is

[MillennialModerate]

people really dont give him enough credit for how savvy he is

Agree with this. Biden is already my favorite President of my lifetime (1989)