Biden infrastructure/tax increase megathread

[pppolitics]

Dems would be much better off running on an impactful 3.5T bill than some watered down flop bipartisan bill.

It's not a "flop bill".

Do you even know what is in it?

Maybe you should find out.

It's not nearly as comprehensive as the reconciliation bill so yes its a flop.

Give me everything I want or I'll blow everyone up.

That's called a hostage negotiation.

And that's not what Manchin is doing??? Sounding very hypocritical right now.

No, it isn't.

He just said that he doesn't support the 3.5 trillion price tag.

He's literally threatening to kill the reconciliation bill or anything near its price tag, so he's literally going kamikaze on the whole process cuz he knows House Dems won't take up the bipartisan bill without a reconciliation bill being passed by the senate. He's literally doing what you're accusing me of supporting. Talking about ruining the only thing Dems can run on, as if that's not exactly what he's doing right now.

Cut it in half and he'll say that he is satisfied.

Lmao no. He gets his bipartisan bill, progressives and Party leaders get their 3.5T. Compromise isn't when moderates get everything they want and progressives keep giving more and more until moderates are satisfied. That's moderate dominance. Progressives already compromised by lowering the reconciliation from like 6T to 3.5T. Manchin needs to shut his mouth and accept that.

How many "progressives" are running in Republican-leaning districts?

So moderates running in conservative districts (not that many btw) hold the party hostage until they get only what they want and progressives keep having to compromise? Yeah that's a dysfunctional divided party, really bad that that's something you want.

No, what the so-called "progressives" are doing is holding the party hostage.

The moderates are just doing what they have to do to try to hold on to their seats.

If the moderates want to hold onto their seats they can allow the reconciliation bill to pass so they get both their moderate hero bipartisan bill and progressives get their reconciliation bill. Thus everyone wins. And everyone can go back to their districts with something sweet for their voters. Literally basic politics. Manchin is here threatening to blow it up FOR NO REASON considering he's toast in WV no matter what.

The infrastructure bill has nothing to do with the reconciliation bill.

There is no reason for the "progressive" to hold the infrastructure bill hostage.

There is a reason considering that if they didn't hold the infrastructure bill hostage Senate Dem moderates would abandon the reconciliation bill the second Biden signs the infrastructure bill.

You are just making assumptions.

Pleaseee. Senate mod dems are barely wanting to pass reconciliation now and they have to if they want their precious infra bill. If Pelosi just passed the infra bill right away Senate mods and house mods as well would just abandon reconciliation

Do you not think they want stuff for their states?

I am sure they do.

Clearly Manchin doesn't. West Virginia needs a whole meth makeover. In fact 3.5T is probably needed for WV alone

...just ask Manchin what he wants and do some horse-trading.

He literally already got what he wants?? He got a bipartisan bill... he's being very selfish rn very toxic gatekeep-y of him tbh

That's not everything he wants.

Everyone always wants more.

[GM Team Member and Deputy PPT WB]

Cokie roberts pyramid

[WV222]

Dems would be much better off running on an impactful 3.5T bill than some watered down flop bipartisan bill.

It's not a "flop bill".

Do you even know what is in it?

Maybe you should find out.

It's not nearly as comprehensive as the reconciliation bill so yes its a flop.

Give me everything I want or I'll blow everyone up.

That's called a hostage negotiation.

And that's not what Manchin is doing??? Sounding very hypocritical right now.

No, it isn't.

He just said that he doesn't support the 3.5 trillion price tag.

He's literally threatening to kill the reconciliation bill or anything near its price tag, so he's literally going kamikaze on the whole process cuz he knows House Dems won't take up the bipartisan bill without a reconciliation bill being passed by the senate. He's literally doing what you're accusing me of supporting. Talking about ruining the only thing Dems can run on, as if that's not exactly what he's doing right now.

Cut it in half and he'll say that he is satisfied.

Cutting in half probably still leads to progressives in the House voting down the reconciliation bill, and both it and the BIF dying, unless you convince enough GOP in both chambers to pass both bills.

[pppolitics]

Dems would be much better off running on an impactful 3.5T bill than some watered down flop bipartisan bill.

It's not a "flop bill".

Do you even know what is in it?

Maybe you should find out.

It's not nearly as comprehensive as the reconciliation bill so yes its a flop.

Give me everything I want or I'll blow everyone up.

That's called a hostage negotiation.

And that's not what Manchin is doing??? Sounding very hypocritical right now.

No, it isn't.

He just said that he doesn't support the 3.5 trillion price tag.

He's literally threatening to kill the reconciliation bill or anything near its price tag, so he's literally going kamikaze on the whole process cuz he knows House Dems won't take up the bipartisan bill without a reconciliation bill being passed by the senate. He's literally doing what you're accusing me of supporting. Talking about ruining the only thing Dems can run on, as if that's not exactly what he's doing right now.

Cut it in half and he'll say that he is satisfied.

Cutting in half probably still leads to progressives in the House voting down the reconciliation bill, and both it and the BIF dying, unless you convince enough GOP in both chambers to pass both bills.

"Progressives" are stupid like that.

They would rather have no cake than 62.77% of the cake.

[Anti-Trump Truth Socialite JD Vance Enjoying Juror]

This thread is 99% quote trees. If you guys feel like you need to continue this, just cut out the first 25 responses next time you quote. It's not like you're reading what the other person says anyway.

[Anti Democrat Democrat Club]

"Progressives" are stupid like that.

They would rather have no cake than 62.77% of the cake.

We get it. You're a Republican.

[Pres Mike]

Manchin is playing games. He is scaring Democratic leadership to bend to his whims

1.Manchin doesn't like to be rushed
2.Manchin wants his input on EVERYTHING
3. Manchin needs Republican input
4. Bills can't be seen as deficit busting

 “I, for one, won’t support a $3.5 trillion bill, or anywhere near that level of additional spending, without greater clarity about why Congress chooses to ignore the serious effects inflation and debt have on existing government programs,”

The key word is "clarity"

Basically, he wants Democrats to make the argument that this isn't a "progressive" bill but some moderate adjustments to the safety net. And he wants it "paid" for with higher taxes so it isn't seen as "deficit busting"

I do not know how much he wants cut. Hopefully not a lot. But we shouldn't be freaking out just yet

[Comrade Funk]

This douche sure loves writing op-eds on sh**t he doesn't support. Just ing tweet and save the time

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

House progressives have next to no history whatsoever of actually pulling the trigger on voting down Democratic priorities, unlike their moderate nice guy FF brethren. Congress-watchers should assume that their threats to do so are empty until and unless they actually go through with it. Remember that five or six of them briefly threatened to sink the ARP too.

[Person Man]

House progressives have next to no history whatsoever of actually pulling the trigger on voting down Democratic priorities, unlike their moderate nice guy FF brethren. Congress-watchers should assume that their threats to do so are empty until and unless they actually go through with it. Remember that five or six of them briefly threatened to sink the ARP too.

They don't have to give us all 4.5 Trillion in programs, but they have to offer something substantial in reconciliation.

[GM Team Member and Deputy PPT WB]

House progressives have next to no history whatsoever of actually pulling the trigger on voting down Democratic priorities, unlike their moderate nice guy FF brethren. Congress-watchers should assume that their threats to do so are empty until and unless they actually go through with it. Remember that five or six of them briefly threatened to sink the ARP too.

They don't have to give us all 4.5 Trillion in programs, but they have to offer something substantial in reconciliation.

Somewhere between the bipartisan bill and the reconciliation bill would be best if we want a lick of a chance of passing it. Just a question of where on the spectrum it falls

[Person Man]

House progressives have next to no history whatsoever of actually pulling the trigger on voting down Democratic priorities, unlike their moderate nice guy FF brethren. Congress-watchers should assume that their threats to do so are empty until and unless they actually go through with it. Remember that five or six of them briefly threatened to sink the ARP too.

They don't have to give us all 4.5 Trillion in programs, but they have to offer something substantial in reconciliation.

Somewhere between the bipartisan bill and the reconciliation bill would be best if we want a lick of a chance of passing it. Just a question of where on the spectrum it falls

Team blue got the ball on their own 10 yard line and they are now 4 and 5 on the 35 yard line. This is a Field Goal kick.

[GM Team Member and Deputy PPT WB]

House progressives have next to no history whatsoever of actually pulling the trigger on voting down Democratic priorities, unlike their moderate nice guy FF brethren. Congress-watchers should assume that their threats to do so are empty until and unless they actually go through with it. Remember that five or six of them briefly threatened to sink the ARP too.

They don't have to give us all 4.5 Trillion in programs, but they have to offer something substantial in reconciliation.

Somewhere between the bipartisan bill and the reconciliation bill would be best if we want a lick of a chance of passing it. Just a question of where on the spectrum it falls

Team blue got the ball on their own 10 yard line and they are now 4 and 5 on the 35 yard line. This is a Field Goal kick.

I don’t watch football so idk what you’re saying

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

Manchin is playing games. He is scaring Democratic leadership to bend to his whims

1.Manchin doesn't like to be rushed
2.Manchin wants his input on EVERYTHING
3. Manchin needs Republican input
4. Bills can't be seen as deficit busting

 “I, for one, won’t support a $3.5 trillion bill, or anywhere near that level of additional spending, without greater clarity about why Congress chooses to ignore the serious effects inflation and debt have on existing government programs,”

The key word is "clarity"

Basically, he wants Democrats to make the argument that this isn't a "progressive" bill but some moderate adjustments to the safety net. And he wants it "paid" for with higher taxes so it isn't seen as "deficit busting"

I do not know how much he wants cut. Hopefully not a lot. But we shouldn't be freaking out just yet

Hey remember when Joe Manchin was whining about raising corporate rates to the pre-Trump giveaway levels. And IIRC he won’t move on taking back the capital gains cuts.

You are ascribing motives to Manchin he doesn’t have. The only consistent driver of his behavior is that he wants to be seen obstructing Democrats very publicly as much as possible. This whole ridiculous dance of doing a bipartisan bill instead of just passing an omnibus reconciliation package was his pay-off. Joe Manchin gets to be seen being ever so collegial with Republicans for a half-assed measure and then we do everything else by reconciliation. Now he wants to derail reconciliation too so that everyone can see how much Joe Manchin hates other Democrats. The real kicker is that Manchin is only the second worst Senator in the caucus, because he will eventually bend after he gets his limelight from his little stunt, there is still a human train wreck that became Senator as a sick joke that just wants to kill bills for the joy trolling we have to deal with.

Also, how is anyone supposed to negotiate with Manchin/Sinema et al if they reneg every time.



Also big ups to the ‘liberals’ that put their foot on the scales to keep Joe Lieberman’s boys from getting primaried. Thank god we still have Cuellar around.

[Person Man]

House progressives have next to no history whatsoever of actually pulling the trigger on voting down Democratic priorities, unlike their moderate nice guy FF brethren. Congress-watchers should assume that their threats to do so are empty until and unless they actually go through with it. Remember that five or six of them briefly threatened to sink the ARP too.

They don't have to give us all 4.5 Trillion in programs, but they have to offer something substantial in reconciliation.

Somewhere between the bipartisan bill and the reconciliation bill would be best if we want a lick of a chance of passing it. Just a question of where on the spectrum it falls

Team blue got the ball on their own 10 yard line and they are now 4 and 5 on the 35 yard line. This is a Field Goal kick.

I don’t watch football so idk what you’re saying

We were handed crap coming in a we have one last chance to do something before we can’t do anything for a while.

[Shadows]

Manchin is playing games. He is scaring Democratic leadership to bend to his whims

1.Manchin doesn't like to be rushed
2.Manchin wants his input on EVERYTHING
3. Manchin needs Republican input
4. Bills can't be seen as deficit busting

 “I, for one, won’t support a $3.5 trillion bill, or anywhere near that level of additional spending, without greater clarity about why Congress chooses to ignore the serious effects inflation and debt have on existing government programs,”

The key word is "clarity"

Basically, he wants Democrats to make the argument that this isn't a "progressive" bill but some moderate adjustments to the safety net. And he wants it "paid" for with higher taxes so it isn't seen as "deficit busting"

I do not know how much he wants cut. Hopefully not a lot. But we shouldn't be freaking out just yet

It is paid for. I don't think progressives will support cutting social programs. So what does he want?

Lower tax hikes? Much lower spending? Maybe he wants something like 2 or 2.5T @ best. Maybe the Medicare expansion of Dental or other provisions on Climate Change or Child Tax Credit etc has to go according to Manchin.

Biden can't work with a 50-50 senate beyond 2022. He needs 2 more seats so that Sinema & Manchin can't blackmail him & Sinema needs to be primaried out ASAP. Manchin is from WV & has some right to actually question - Sinema is in a state Biden won where Mark Kelly won & she has no business arguing !

[Person Man]

Manchin is playing games. He is scaring Democratic leadership to bend to his whims

1.Manchin doesn't like to be rushed
2.Manchin wants his input on EVERYTHING
3. Manchin needs Republican input
4. Bills can't be seen as deficit busting

 “I, for one, won’t support a $3.5 trillion bill, or anywhere near that level of additional spending, without greater clarity about why Congress chooses to ignore the serious effects inflation and debt have on existing government programs,”

The key word is "clarity"

Basically, he wants Democrats to make the argument that this isn't a "progressive" bill but some moderate adjustments to the safety net. And he wants it "paid" for with higher taxes so it isn't seen as "deficit busting"

I do not know how much he wants cut. Hopefully not a lot. But we shouldn't be freaking out just yet

It is paid for. I don't think progressives will support cutting social programs. So what does he want?

Lower tax hikes? Much lower spending? Maybe he wants something like 2 or 2.5T @ best. Maybe the Medicare expansion of Dental or other provisions on Climate Change or Child Tax Credit etc has to go according to Manchin.

Biden can't work with a 50-50 senate beyond 2022. He needs 2 more seats so that Sinema & Manchin can't blackmail him & Sinema needs to be primaried out ASAP. Manchin is from WV & has some right to actually question - Sinema is in a state Biden won where Mark Kelly won & she has no business arguing !

If the trends hold (recent polling shows that it will) in the suburbs, Sinema probably loses the primary and Democrats will never be able to win the senate or WH again without Arizona.

[emailking]

If the trends hold (recent polling shows that it will) in the suburbs, Sinema probably loses the primary and Democrats will never be able to win the senate or WH again without Arizona.

That seems highly speculative.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

https://news.yahoo.com/joe-manchin-says-wont-support-212454346.html


Manchin says no way to 3.5T bill,  THATS IT FOLKS


I wasn't concerned about a non Stimulant bill anyways

[MillennialModerate]

https://news.yahoo.com/joe-manchin-says-wont-support-212454346.html


Manchin says no way to 3.5T bill,  THATS IT FOLKS


I wasn't concerned about a non Stimulant bill anyways

I’m skeptical about this passing but this article is two days old and includes the “clarity” line

“I, for one, won’t support a $3.5 trillion bill, or anywhere near that level of additional spending, without greater clarity about why Congress chooses to ignore the serious effects inflation and debt have on existing government programs,” the senator said in the op-ed

[Utah Neolib]

Dems would be much better off running on an impactful 3.5T bill than some watered down flop bipartisan bill.

It's not a "flop bill".

Do you even know what is in it?

Maybe you should find out.

It's not nearly as comprehensive as the reconciliation bill so yes its a flop.

Give me everything I want or I'll blow everyone up.

That's called a hostage negotiation.

And that's not what Manchin is doing??? Sounding very hypocritical right now.

No, it isn't.

He just said that he doesn't support the 3.5 trillion price tag.

He's literally threatening to kill the reconciliation bill or anything near its price tag, so he's literally going kamikaze on the whole process cuz he knows House Dems won't take up the bipartisan bill without a reconciliation bill being passed by the senate. He's literally doing what you're accusing me of supporting. Talking about ruining the only thing Dems can run on, as if that's not exactly what he's doing right now.

Cut it in half and he'll say that he is satisfied.

Cutting in half probably still leads to progressives in the House voting down the reconciliation bill, and both it and the BIF dying, unless you convince enough GOP in both chambers to pass both bills.

"Progressives" are stupid like that.

They would rather have no cake than 62.77% of the cake.

Progressives want everything rather than something. Look, I get it, but sometimes you have to compromise and progressives don’t realize that with their unrealistic demands

[CookieDamage]

Dems would be much better off running on an impactful 3.5T bill than some watered down flop bipartisan bill.

It's not a "flop bill".

Do you even know what is in it?

Maybe you should find out.

It's not nearly as comprehensive as the reconciliation bill so yes its a flop.

Give me everything I want or I'll blow everyone up.

That's called a hostage negotiation.

And that's not what Manchin is doing??? Sounding very hypocritical right now.

No, it isn't.

He just said that he doesn't support the 3.5 trillion price tag.

He's literally threatening to kill the reconciliation bill or anything near its price tag, so he's literally going kamikaze on the whole process cuz he knows House Dems won't take up the bipartisan bill without a reconciliation bill being passed by the senate. He's literally doing what you're accusing me of supporting. Talking about ruining the only thing Dems can run on, as if that's not exactly what he's doing right now.

Cut it in half and he'll say that he is satisfied.

Cutting in half probably still leads to progressives in the House voting down the reconciliation bill, and both it and the BIF dying, unless you convince enough GOP in both chambers to pass both bills.

"Progressives" are stupid like that.

They would rather have no cake than 62.77% of the cake.

Progressives want everything rather than something. Look, I get it, but sometimes you have to compromise and progressives don’t realize that with their unrealistic demands

No Progressives want a piece of legislation that will actually fix something. Plus, the compromise was the bipartisan bill, itself full of compromises that Joe Manchin wanted. Y'all are so hypocritical accusing progressives of wanting the world and never compromising, as if Joe Manchin's constant wrench throwing isn't exactly that. Maybe yall moderate heroes are projecting.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

https://twitter.com/peterdaou/status/1434318200121004032

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

D's can always amend the Bill if they win in 2022/ and get more infrastructure spending, we still need Speed rails, this isn't the END ALL BE ALL

[Frodo]

For anyone in the know, does the reconciliation package include carbon pricing, and if so just how closely does it mirror the Four Pillars proposal laid out by the Climate Leadership Council?