Voter suppresion/"stealing the election" megathread

[HillGoose]

They are 100 percent moving forward with separate slates. Their end goal is a civil war.

Lmao “Make America Great Again” more like “Make Russia and China Great Again” by making the US look like a third world banana republic in the eyes of the international community

[xavier110]

They are 100 percent moving forward with separate slates. Their end goal is a civil war.

Lmao “Make America Great Again” more like “Make Russia and China Great Again” by making the US look like a third world banana republic in the eyes of the international community

Well they’re the ones who can bail Trump out. He owes hundreds of millions, if not billions.

[Crumpets]

The Guardian seems pretty confident that the "rogue state legislatures" scenario won't work out for them, but I'm sure it won't be this clear-cut if they actually try it.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/11/can-donald-trump-stay-in-office-second-term-president-coup

Say the worst-case scenario comes to fruition and Republican-led legislatures override the will of the people in several states. Is there any safeguard to stop Trump?

Yes. Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Nevada all have Democratic governors who would refuse to approve a set of Trump electors with the popular vote clearly showing Biden winning their state. Instead, they would submit the electors Biden is entitled to as the winner of the popular vote.

It would then fall to Congress, which is charged with counting the votes from the electoral college, to decide what to do. The law that outlines the process for how Congress should handle a dispute in electors from a state is extremely confusing, but experts believe the slate backed by a state’s governor is the legally sound one. There is a rival theory that the president of the Senate, Mike Pence, could have control over the process. A dispute over electors between the US House and Senate is a worst-case scenario and the US supreme court would probably be asked to step in.

Regardless of however long a dispute is, the constitution does set one final deadline. Even if counting is ongoing, the president and vice-president’s terms both end at noon on 20 January. At that point if there isn’t a final result in the race, the speaker of the House – likely probably Nancy Pelosi – would become the acting president.

[Gass3268]

Republicans have yet to win a single lawsuit:

https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/1326615940490997766?s=20

[Hammy]

Can somebody explain to me why these endless lawsuits won't hold up certification, beyond the usual brainwashed red avatar "nuh uh no it won't you're just dooming" type of answer? Not saying it will, but if it won't, what's the legal mechanism that would allow them to certify while there is pending litigation? It certainly seems increasingly likely this is his intent considering they aren't actually winning any.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Can somebody explain to me why these endless lawsuits won't hold up certification, beyond the usual brainwashed red avatar "nuh uh no it won't you're just dooming" type of answer? Not saying it will, but if it won't, what's the legal mechanism that would allow them to certify while there is pending litigation?

Our resident lawyers can correct me, but I think it would require a judge to grant an injunction to delay certification.  Based on the track record of the lawsuits so far, this looks extremely unlikely.

[Middle-aged Europe]

https://twitter.com/awprokop/status/1326536823644938246

But now, facing "pressure" to overturn the results, he's hedging that statement, saying that's in "normal circumstances"

^^
That's circular reasoning. The circumstances are not "normal" because Trump and the Republicans made them that way. A self-created crisis, so to speak.

[Hammy]

https://twitter.com/awprokop/status/1326536823644938246

But now, facing "pressure" to overturn the results, he's hedging that statement, saying that's in "normal circumstances"

^^
That's circular reasoning. The circumstances are not "normal" because Trump and the Republicans made them that way. A self-created crisis, so to speak.

I'll say it again: we need internationally-administered Nuremburg-type of trials. This is treason at this point, and the entirety of both state legislatures should be tried for such.

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/awprokop/status/1326536823644938246

But now, facing "pressure" to overturn the results, he's hedging that statement, saying that's in "normal circumstances"

^^
That's circular reasoning. The circumstances are not "normal" because Trump and the Republicans made them that way. A self-created crisis, so to speak.

I'll say it again: we need internationally-administered Nuremburg-type of trials. This is treason at this point, and the entirety of both state legislatures should be tried for such.

Sure, try the entire legislatures for something that individual members are mouthing about (and nobody has tried to actually do).  Guilt by association?

I mean this kindly, but perhaps you should try to tune out election news for a few days.

[Hammy]

https://twitter.com/awprokop/status/1326536823644938246

But now, facing "pressure" to overturn the results, he's hedging that statement, saying that's in "normal circumstances"

^^
That's circular reasoning. The circumstances are not "normal" because Trump and the Republicans made them that way. A self-created crisis, so to speak.

I'll say it again: we need internationally-administered Nuremburg-type of trials. This is treason at this point, and the entirety of both state legislatures should be tried for such.

Sure, try the entire legislatures for something that individual members are mouthing about (and nobody has tried to actually do).  Guilt by association?

I mean this kindly, but perhaps you should try to tune out election news for a few days.

I'll tune it out when this is over. Every day that goes by the number of people who should be in jail increases, and I'm not going to let my mind come up with even worse case scenarios compared to what's going on that would result from a complete absence of information.

Not to mention these people have been pulling stuff like this for years at the state level, between stripping governors of their power after losing, to gerrymandering to the point you need well over 50% of the popular vote (in some cases close to 60%) just to get a simple majority of the legislatures, and I won't even get into how many people the party killed by forcing people in Michigan to drink poison water. These are a band of criminals who are willing to follow through with their crimes, not a few random people who just say things.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

Can somebody explain to me why these endless lawsuits won't hold up certification, beyond the usual brainwashed red avatar "nuh uh no it won't you're just dooming" type of answer? Not saying it will, but if it won't, what's the legal mechanism that would allow them to certify while there is pending litigation? It certainly seems increasingly likely this is his intent considering they aren't actually winning any.

Just because a lawsuit exists it doesn’t actually mean anything, they would need an injunction to actually prevent PA from certifying. 

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Can somebody explain to me why these endless lawsuits won't hold up certification, beyond the usual brainwashed red avatar "nuh uh no it won't you're just dooming" type of answer? Not saying it will, but if it won't, what's the legal mechanism that would allow them to certify while there is pending litigation? It certainly seems increasingly likely this is his intent considering they aren't actually winning any.

The reason people go at you for dooming is because you don't simply neutrally ask these questions usually as you are now but rave about these as if it's a dead certainty it'll do so.

Now if it was possible to cease certification of an election just by throwing lawsuits over and over wouldn't someone have done so already? Thats a pretty big loophole and one that it's amazing wasn't taken advantage of until now.

Here's a good explanation from an actual lawyer on why they haven't succeeded and are unlikely to amount to anything:
.

[Hammy]

The reason people go at you for dooming is because you don't simply neutrally ask these questions usually as you are now but rave about these as if it's a dead certainty it'll do so.

Anxiety management isn't my strong suit and getting answers as to why x won't/can't happen is usually the only thing that helps, but it gets frustrating when most of the replies (even when I do ask) are simply one word "no" which just strikes me as denial and overconfidence--and I've learned not to trust people who are too confident something won't happen without reason.

With that, thank you for addressing the question, and to the others that have, as most people that have replied have just covered their ears and treated these as a zero chance

[xavier110]

Now retired generals are saying the whole coup plot unfolding before our eyes IS unfolding before our eyes

https://mobile.twitter.com/mccaffreyr3/status/1326582432682766336

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

The reason people go at you for dooming is because you don't simply neutrally ask these questions usually as you are now but rave about these as if it's a dead certainty it'll do so.

Anxiety management isn't my strong suit and getting answers as to why x won't/can't happen is usually the only thing that helps, but it gets frustrating when most of the replies (even when I do ask) are simply one word "no" which just strikes me as denial and overconfidence--and I've learned not to trust people who are too confident something won't happen without reason.

With that, thank you for addressing the question, and to the others that have, as most people that have replied have just covered their ears and treated these as a zero chance

Here's a good reassuring thing to keep in mind: Both Biden and all state election officials (including Republicans) are just ignoring these lawsuits entirely as if they know they'll go nowhere.

[Gass3268]

https://twitter.com/rtmradio/status/1326660188968022016?s=21

[MATTROSE94]

https://twitter.com/rtmradio/status/1326660188968022016?s=21

It looks like James Lankford is another Republican to add to the relatively small list of ones who accept a Biden victory.

[Skill and Chance]

https://twitter.com/rtmradio/status/1326660188968022016?s=21

It looks like James Lankford is another Republican to add to the relatively small list of ones who accept a Biden victory.

A non-retiring incumbent in Oklahoma?  The dam is breaking. 

[MasterJedi]

Yes, the Wisconsin legislator is a nutcase, but he's probably an isolated outlier.  Did anyone read the whole article?

"They would effectively be nullifying the votes of the 3 million plus Wisconsinites," UW-Madison Law Professor Rob Yablon said.

He added that is not allowed under current Wisconsin law and can't see the Legislature trying to change it.

"The electors that were chosen on Election Day are legally bound to vote for the candidate that won the popular vote in Wisconsin," Yablon said. "And if the Legislature attempted to appoint its own substitute slate of electors, it's hard to see how that would be legitimate."

The Wisconsin Elections Commission agreed.

"In Wisconsin, the state Legislature plays no role in certifying or deciding which slate of electors vote in the Electoral College," the commission said in a statement to WISN 12 News.

Vos is a POS, but he didn't a pretty extensive interview with the Milwaukee Journal Sentential and while he was talking about looking at the results to make sure nothing nefarious happened, he sounded like he believed the results in Wisconsin were accurate.   

Sanfilipo is the bigger crazy, he wants he Republicans to send a different slate to DC to vote for Trump because the results were wrong.

[Middle-aged Europe]

https://twitter.com/rtmradio/status/1326660188968022016?s=21

It looks like James Lankford is another Republican to add to the relatively small list of ones who accept a Biden victory.

A non-retiring incumbent in Oklahoma?  The dam is breaking. 

For a while, Trump's election fraud jokes were funny, but they've started to wear pretty thin now.

[Crumpets]

I think there are two things pretty much everyone should agree on:

1) Trump has the right to challenge (but not overturn) whatever votes he wants.

2) Team Trump's participation in preparing for a transition of power should not be contingent on or delayed until Trump personally feels that every grievance he has about the election is assuaged.

If either of these is a problem for you, then you probably should not be taken seriously. We can argue about when it is appropriate to start giving Biden certain pieces of intel or what level of certainty we should have about an election's winner before the two sides work together. But even if somehow the election were to get overturned and Trump were to stay as president, his team should not be assuming that will be the case when, by all current measures Biden has won. If you're going to argue that media calls are illegitimate or premature, then you need to be just as prepared for the contingency that Biden wins as you are for the contingency that Trump wins.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

It looks like James Lankford is another Republican to add to the relatively small list of ones who accept a Biden victory.

Al Schmidt, the Republican city commissioner of Philadelphia. In return for that he has received death threats. 😡

[Mr. Morden]

https://twitter.com/rtmradio/status/1326660188968022016?s=21

It looks like James Lankford is another Republican to add to the relatively small list of ones who accept a Biden victory.

He doesn't accept it.  He just says that a Biden victory is a possibility, and so he should get intelligence briefings in case he wins:

https://twitter.com/courtneyknorris/status/1326677100338814976

[Hammy]

https://twitter.com/rtmradio/status/1326660188968022016?s=21

It looks like James Lankford is another Republican to add to the relatively small list of ones who accept a Biden victory.

He doesn't accept it.  He just says that a Biden victory is a possibility, and so he should get intelligence briefings in case he wins:

https://twitter.com/courtneyknorris/status/1326677100338814976

That's still infinitely more than most GOP officials are saying.

[Mr. Morden]

https://twitter.com/rtmradio/status/1326660188968022016?s=21

It looks like James Lankford is another Republican to add to the relatively small list of ones who accept a Biden victory.

He doesn't accept it.  He just says that a Biden victory is a possibility, and so he should get intelligence briefings in case he wins:

https://twitter.com/courtneyknorris/status/1326677100338814976

That's still infinitely more than most GOP officials are saying.

True, but that's simply because most of them aren't saying anything about this.  Almost no Republican elected officials are going as far as Trump, who says that he's already won.  Those who are saying anything about it are mostly giving some version of "Well, there are recounts and court challenges to resolve, so let's see how those go", which implies that Biden could still win, even by their reasoning.