UK General Discussion:The Rt. Hon Alex Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, Populist Hero

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

There has to be some conservative MP who just wants to be remembered as prime minister and dammn everything else, who could run ?

[afleitch]

There has to be some conservative MP who just wants to be remembered as prime minister and dammn everything else, who could run ?

They already have one as PM.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

There's no shortage of people who want it - half the cabinet are plotting as we speak. The issue is that the entire party has a sort of PTSD about being the one to wield the knife because of what doing that did to Heseltine's prospects.

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

There's no shortage of people who want it - half the cabinet are plotting as we speak. The issue is that the entire party has a sort of PTSD about being the one to wield the knife because of what doing that did to Heseltine's prospects.

Surely that can just be a random backbencher who can be promised a seat in the cabinet or peerage as a reward by one of the actual challengers?

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

There's no shortage of people who want it - half the cabinet are plotting as we speak. The issue is that the entire party has a sort of PTSD about being the one to wield the knife because of what doing that did to Heseltine's prospects.

Surely that can just be a random backbencher who can be promised a seat in the cabinet or peerage as a reward by one of the actual challengers?

Well, that happened in the Thatcher case as well: a Mr Anthony Meyer put his name to depose her because the likes of Heseltine didn't want to jump the gun. Not that being a stalking horse particularly benefitted Meyer much: he was abandoned, had his longtime affair outed and immediately deselected.

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

There's no shortage of people who want it - half the cabinet are plotting as we speak. The issue is that the entire party has a sort of PTSD about being the one to wield the knife because of what doing that did to Heseltine's prospects.

Surely that can just be a random backbencher who can be promised a seat in the cabinet or peerage as a reward by one of the actual challengers?

Well, that happened in the Thatcher case as well: a Mr Anthony Meyer put his name to depose her because the likes of Heseltine didn't want to jump the gun. Not that being a stalking horse particularly benefitted Meyer much: he was abandoned, had his longtime affair outed and immediately deselected.

His problem was not having demanded a specific payment from someone with sufficient security to ensure he received that payment.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

There's no shortage of people who want it - half the cabinet are plotting as we speak. The issue is that the entire party has a sort of PTSD about being the one to wield the knife because of what doing that did to Heseltine's prospects.

Surely that can just be a random backbencher who can be promised a seat in the cabinet or peerage as a reward by one of the actual challengers?

Well, that happened in the Thatcher case as well: a Mr Anthony Meyer put his name to depose her because the likes of Heseltine didn't want to jump the gun. Not that being a stalking horse particularly benefitted Meyer much: he was abandoned, had his longtime affair outed and immediately deselected.

His problem was not having demanded a specific payment from someone with sufficient security to ensure he received that payment.

Such is the life of a stalking horse, and why in practice it's a pretty stupid career plan, unless your life goal is appearing in one sentence in the history books.

Also the Tory party rules have changed somewhat to dissuade such kamikaze attacks on the leadership: I believe the Hague reforms mean you are automatically protected from a future VONC if you survive one, meaning you could just entrench an incumbent further.

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

There's no shortage of people who want it - half the cabinet are plotting as we speak. The issue is that the entire party has a sort of PTSD about being the one to wield the knife because of what doing that did to Heseltine's prospects.

Surely that can just be a random backbencher who can be promised a seat in the cabinet or peerage as a reward by one of the actual challengers?

Well, that happened in the Thatcher case as well: a Mr Anthony Meyer put his name to depose her because the likes of Heseltine didn't want to jump the gun. Not that being a stalking horse particularly benefitted Meyer much: he was abandoned, had his longtime affair outed and immediately deselected.

His problem was not having demanded a specific payment from someone with sufficient security to ensure he received that payment.

Such is the life of a stalking horse, and why in practice it's a pretty stupid career plan, unless your life goal is appearing in one sentence in the history books.

Also the Tory party rules have changed somewhat to dissuade such kamikaze attacks on the leadership: I believe the Hague reforms mean you are automatically protected from a future VONC if you survive one, meaning you could just entrench an incumbent further.

If boris wanted to play 4d chess, might he not have his own allies send in the letters to start a vote of no-confidence gambling that the tories aren't quite ready to toss him out now so as to sure up his own postion temporairly buying time for him to recover in the polls before he can be dethroned.

[Silent Hunter]

There's no shortage of people who want it - half the cabinet are plotting as we speak. The issue is that the entire party has a sort of PTSD about being the one to wield the knife because of what doing that did to Heseltine's prospects.

Surely that can just be a random backbencher who can be promised a seat in the cabinet or peerage as a reward by one of the actual challengers?

Well, that happened in the Thatcher case as well: a Mr Anthony Meyer put his name to depose her because the likes of Heseltine didn't want to jump the gun. Not that being a stalking horse particularly benefitted Meyer much: he was abandoned, had his longtime affair outed and immediately deselected.

His problem was not having demanded a specific payment from someone with sufficient security to ensure he received that payment.

Such is the life of a stalking horse, and why in practice it's a pretty stupid career plan, unless your life goal is appearing in one sentence in the history books.

Also the Tory party rules have changed somewhat to dissuade such kamikaze attacks on the leadership: I believe the Hague reforms mean you are automatically protected from a future VONC if you survive one, meaning you could just entrench an incumbent further.

Didn't entrench May though, did it?

[TheTide]

There's no shortage of people who want it - half the cabinet are plotting as we speak. The issue is that the entire party has a sort of PTSD about being the one to wield the knife because of what doing that did to Heseltine's prospects.

Surely that can just be a random backbencher who can be promised a seat in the cabinet or peerage as a reward by one of the actual challengers?

Well, that happened in the Thatcher case as well: a Mr Anthony Meyer put his name to depose her because the likes of Heseltine didn't want to jump the gun. Not that being a stalking horse particularly benefitted Meyer much: he was abandoned, had his longtime affair outed and immediately deselected.

His problem was not having demanded a specific payment from someone with sufficient security to ensure he received that payment.

Such is the life of a stalking horse, and why in practice it's a pretty stupid career plan, unless your life goal is appearing in one sentence in the history books.

Also the Tory party rules have changed somewhat to dissuade such kamikaze attacks on the leadership: I believe the Hague reforms mean you are automatically protected from a future VONC if you survive one, meaning you could just entrench an incumbent further.

Didn't entrench May though, did it?

There were reports that the 1922 Committee were on the brink of re-writing the rules when she was refusing to budge after the Brexit deadline extensions.

[Blair]

So Lord Frost has quit; I assumed it was over Northern Ireland & the constant pulling back from triggering Article 16. It's been briefed though its because he's opposed to 'all that green crap' & high taxes.

Also briefed to the Sun that Boris is going to sack his Chief Whip- a decision he should have taken after the Owen Paterson affair. It would have been a clean sweep then but now it just looks like a panic- I wonder if Gavin Williamson will return.

An early sacking by Boris would have allowed him to sack Rees-Mogg too; who was the architect of the scheme & thus responsible for the by-election.

It's worth remembering that Rees-Mogg is virtually banned from representing his own party on broadcast news- his gaffe in the 2019 general election about Grenfell was horrific. He does still manage to make news as Leader of the House, something that is impressive as its a powerless job.

[(no subject)]

Reminds me of how the great wartime PM, John Curtin, dealt with Eddie Ward and his trouble making. He made Ward the Minister for Transport and External Territories. Of course, as Curtin gleefully pointed out, the Army had the Transport and the Japs had the External Territories

[new_patomic]

https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1472331053775958016?s=20
And the embarrassments keep piling on

[Statilius the Epicurean]

I would love to know what these amazing opportunities are that the government are inexplicably not taking.

Brexit cannot fail, it can only be failed, apparently.

[Pericles]

That conversation is hilarious. It also feels a bit off and hypocritical for the free speech warriors not to even bother responding to Dorries. They seem pretty deluded politically, but they're useful idiots at the moment.

[CumbrianLefty]

I would love to know what these amazing opportunities are that the government are inexplicably not taking.

Brexit cannot fail, it can only be failed, apparently.

Along with some on the hard left, they genuinely think just "believing" hard enough will do the trick.

[TheTide]

I would love to know what these amazing opportunities are that the government are inexplicably not taking.

Brexit cannot fail, it can only be failed, apparently.

Brexit is merely the act of leaving the European Union. In that sense it's objectively a success. The consequences and fall out from the said act are of course a matter for wider discussion..

[ingemann]

I would love to know what these amazing opportunities are that the government are inexplicably not taking.

Brexit cannot fail, it can only be failed, apparently.

As much as I enjoy the collapse of Boris Johnson, as a EU citizens I don’t look forward to the next idiot the Conservatives elect, who will repeat all the stupidities of Johnson. But hopefully they elect someone who are a big enough idiot to kill the party, yes I know it won’t happen, but let me hope.

[(no subject)]

Johnson was hit by the resignation of his Brexit minister, Lord Frost, on Saturday evening. For those unaware, Johnson and Lord Frost negotiated the Northern Ireland Protocol and hailed it as a triumph a year ago.  As time passed, it became clear that it was fraught with difficulties so they have been demanding that the EU agrees to wholesale changes to the protocol that they claimed was such a triumph…

Lord Frost’s resignation was during some quite tense discussions and clearly came at a bad time for Johnson.

According to Conservative Home, the most popular cabinet minister with Conservative members is the current Foreign Secretary, and also Minister for Equality, Liz Truss. So Johnson has given her a third role as Brexit Secretary.  Foolishly, I think, she has accepted it.

Now, this might actually be a shrewd tactic by Johnson.  Truss has been on manoeuvres for a possible leadership bid of her own and Johnson may just have given her too much to do so she will fail and have her leadership ambitions scuppered.

[beesley]

Now, this might actually be a shrewd tactic by Johnson.  Truss has been on manoeuvres for a possible leadership bid of her own and Johnson may just have given her too much to do so she will fail and have her leadership ambitions scuppered.

I thought the same. Not so much too much to do, but more of a difficult (and potentially public) task than she has had.

[CumbrianLefty]

I would love to know what these amazing opportunities are that the government are inexplicably not taking.

Brexit cannot fail, it can only be failed, apparently.

Brexit is merely the act of leaving the European Union. In that sense it's objectively a success.

But for many on the political right, the act of leaving the EU was simply a means to an end. And that end was a hard Thatcherite free market utopia - the inherent unpopularity of this for most voters (not least many natural Tories) was always going to be disguised by flag waving and culture war populism. But there was always a real chance the "wrong" people would notice the "wrong" things.

[Blair]

Why does no.10 keep giving Dominic Raab the TV round?

It’s hilarious as he’s managed to make at least two pieces of news this morning; including his defence that the wine and cheese party in No.10 was actually a business meeting because they were wearing suits.

He’s honestly awful at it and this is at least the fourth or fifth time that he has put his foot in it. It’s interesting how the more dependable ministers seem to refuse to defend any of this in the media.

[TiltsAreUnderrated]

A big issue is that there are not too many capable people in the cabinet able to take over and sort out the mess. Johnson has created a mess and broken a lot of trust with his supporters and voters. Several current cabinet members want to become leader (but none are viewed as being particularly talented) and it is believed that the Chancellor, Rishi Sunak, and the Foreign Secretary, Liz Truss, are both reported to be 'on manoeuvres' to court back bench MPs.

Tbh if I were Liz or Rishi I'm not sure I'd want to take over at this point in time only to be captain of a sinking ship.

A “poisoned chalice” premiership is better than no premiership at all. Political windows are narrow and can close quickly; becoming PM without having to lead the party into a general election beforehand is a great opportunity.

[Zinneke]

You only have to see how Theresa May earns 200k per speech to realise all you need is a short stint as PM in order to be bribed attract the services of big bankers or corporations. Wasn't there rumours Johnson was so jealous of May's income he was ready to resign even before COVID hit and just hit the money trail?

[(no subject)]