UK General Discussion:The Rt. Hon Alex Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, Populist Hero

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Obviously no-one should wish anyone to die of COVID-19. It's also my opinion that Boris is a much more preferable Tory prime minister than any likely alternative, I prefer the unprincipled charlatan to the hardcore bastard ideologue like Raab.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Still don't know what to make of these constant rumours and suggestions that the Tories dump Boris for Sunak (or A.N. Other). Like obviously Boris is a lazy incompetent not up to the job and who's just recovering from being hospitalised, but it would be unprecedented to dump a Prime Minister who won a bloody 80-seat majority (partly thanks to his personal brand with Tory-sceptical Leave voters) midway through his first term. I just can't see it happening, yet people keep talking about it. Is it just the bored Westminster rumour mill with nothing to talk about?

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Starmer probably can't believe his luck to be honest. Gets to prove his bonafides on antisemitism and sack an awkward factional opponent (one he only appointed because of the promise to give shadow cabinet positions to both of his leadership rivals) in one fell swoop.

Well we shall see what transpires. I still think this will get Starmer a lot of grief for little benefit.

The hard truth is that the left of the party are so unpopular with the general public that the more they attack Starmer the more his standing will improve with them.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

My last point: the article criticised Keir Starmer, her leader.

I'd have to read it again, but I took the point of that part of the article to be "I don't like Starmer but just like I told people who didn't like Corbyn you have to vote Labour to get the Tories out". Okay, maybe not a full-throated endorsement but Starmer would surely be fine with RLB promoting it to her supporters.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

The hard truth is that the left of the party are so unpopular with the general public that the more they attack Starmer the more his standing will improve with them.

The only Labour leader to gain the party seats in a post-1997 GE was one Jeremy Corbyn.

Or is it some other "hard truth" that you had in mind?

2017 is a political lifetime ago...

The hard left had their shot and blew it, unfortunately. Partly because of controversies like these.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Indeed it is. The only points to quibble about are that Peake made specific reference to the neck kneeling maneuver, which is not specifically indicated as being taught, and that she attributed them to Israeli secret services, rather than any other component of Israel's security industrial complex. These are distinctions without meaningful difference.

The neck-kneeling technique claim is why Peake linked Israel to George Floyd's killing. It's not a distinction without a difference but the substance of her point.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Indeed it is. The only points to quibble about are that Peake made specific reference to the neck kneeling maneuver, which is not specifically indicated as being taught, and that she attributed them to Israeli secret services, rather than any other component of Israel's security industrial complex. These are distinctions without meaningful difference.

The neck-kneeling technique claim is why Peake linked Israel to George Floyd's killing. It's not a distinction without a difference but the substance of her point.

It's the example, not the substance of the point. The substance of the point is that militarized police forces are used to oppress racial minorities across the world. The fact that Israel is a chief exporter of the training and tactics for said militarized police forces is an uncomfortable, but not antisemitic, truth.

There's a way to say that without spreading conspiracy theories that Israel taught the Minneapolis police how to kill George Floyd.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Indeed it is. The only points to quibble about are that Peake made specific reference to the neck kneeling maneuver, which is not specifically indicated as being taught, and that she attributed them to Israeli secret services, rather than any other component of Israel's security industrial complex. These are distinctions without meaningful difference.

The neck-kneeling technique claim is why Peake linked Israel to George Floyd's killing. It's not a distinction without a difference but the substance of her point.

It's the example, not the substance of the point. The substance of the point is that militarized police forces are used to oppress racial minorities across the world. The fact that Israel is a chief exporter of the training and tactics for said militarized police forces is an uncomfortable, but not antisemitic, truth.

There's a way to say that without spreading conspiracy theories that Israel taught the Minneapolis police how to kill George Floyd.

And if she had said (or even implied) 'Israel taught the Minneapolis police how to kill George Floyd', then that would be heinous. But she didn't. To repeat, her words were:

“Systemic racism is a global issue,” she adds. “The tactics used by the police in America, kneeling on George Floyd’s neck, that was learnt from seminars with Israeli secret services.”

Her point is about systemic racism and the way states through their policing organs collaborate to enforce it on oppressed people. Her phrasing isn't as nuanced as one would hope, but it's disingenuous to impute an antisemitic conspiracy theory from it.

Yes, and the example Peake used to illustrate this was: "The tactics used by the police in America, kneeling on George Floyd’s neck, that was learnt from seminars with Israeli secret services.” Which is not true.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

"Defund the police" discourse has arrived here and it's even (significantly) dumber than in the United States. Literally what the hell is wrong with Labour left twitter? I think my brain is breaking from socialists arguing that austerity is good now.

https://twitter.com/BBCBreakfast/status/1277556165040148485?s=20

And yes I know that when you point this out the advocates say "well we actually mean increasing funding for social services". Then don't ing say defund the police then!! How hard is it?!

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Lots of people were up in arms about Philip May getting a knighthood; but the real shock was the onwer of the Standard getting a peerage after the reports just last week....

Not a coincidence that the Standard was nicknamed the "Daily Boris" while he was Mayor.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Here comes indyref2

https://twitter.com/andydphilip/status/1295304258422820864?s=20
Do we have a Scotland thread or is it subsumed under this one?

[Statilius the Epicurean]

The BTEC disaster is magnitudes worse than what happened with A-levels but I doubt the government will take it as seriously because it's working class kids getting f-ed. Makes me so angry.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Not to worry all, the PM is going to PERSONALLY TAKE CHARGE of our schools! We are saved!!

There was this incredible line in the FT the other day:

https://twitter.com/marinahyde/status/1297092719815340033?s=21

We're getting near the point where the PM might start doing his job!

[Statilius the Epicurean]

What was the case? Wouldn't he have been too Remainy?

[Statilius the Epicurean]

The three major challenges that are going to come over the next 3 months are....

1.) Do the Government extend or revise the furlough to save parts of the economy?

2.) Do the Government safely handle the return for schools?

3.) Will the Prime Minister get a cabinet who knows how to handle a brief?

If the answer to all three is no & we have the vicious winter predicted (floods, flu, spike & no-deal) we're heading into somewhere a lot worse than a tied poll.

Of course, we should keep in mind how far ahead Labour was after the 'Omnishambles' budget of 2012. I think Labour supporters should still be keeping low expectations for this parliament: if you look at how each party is favoured on an issue by issue basis inc. a huge lead on the economy thanks to Sunak (and the attendant media propaganda despite his deliberate devastation of the cultural industry), I don't think it's realistic to say that the Conservatives are in danger of losing their majority just yet. There's a bigger shoe which needs to drop first.

That is to say, the median voter can't imagine Labour as being a competent party of government yet.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

If this lasts for 6 months I might as well top myself. Not even joking. 

https://twitter.com/GdnScotland/status/1308420731294879744?s=20

[Statilius the Epicurean]

This is not a parody.

https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1309903624374546433?s=20

[Statilius the Epicurean]

I agree that this is bigger than the topline figure

https://twitter.com/jmagosh/status/1309933571780628481?s=21

[Statilius the Epicurean]

It's interesting as this is used as a takeway by some (including myself) as something to point to when people ask what Starmer is doing right but really the fact that the Government managed to squander a what 25+ lead in the polls that they had in March?

That was obviously in large part an unsustainable sympathy bump for Boris in hospital.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Re: Labour's polling, I suspect the popularity of Sunak and the free pass his economic measures are getting in the press is what's keeping the Conservatives ahead.

As long as voters trust the Conservatives to run the economy (and Labour are seen as an unknown risk on that issue) I think they'll be fine.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Starmer would be delighted for the Tory attack on him to be "5 years ago he didn't say x about Corbyn."

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Something I truly do not understand is why so many politicians on the left seem to utterly despise the interests of young people, a voting bloc which is regularly among the most reliable for the left. Every other bloc seems to get so many concessions, but the youth just consistently get spit on. If this didn't happen so regularly, it's easy to imagine that youth turnout would be much, much higher across the board.

We literally had a general election last year where Labour's entire strategy was predicated on a "youthquake" surge in youth turnout that never materialised...

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Genuinely surprised at the level of vitriol from Tory MPs at this announcement

https://twitter.com/MattChorley/status/1322619848267079685

https://twitter.com/johnjohnstonmi/status/1322651054316670980?s=19

I thought there was absolutely no way a Prime Minister could be overthrown a year after winning an 80-seat majority, but here we are....

[Statilius the Epicurean]

"This could be his Suez" is the something so ridiculous it makes sense it would come from out of touch anonymous Tories.

It's an occasional metaphor in UK politics?

[Statilius the Epicurean]

FWIW as much as I find the Suez example a bit overused (everything is Suez in the same way everything in Labour is a Clause IV moment) it's certainly true that on the current trends the local elections next year could be very tough; a clobbering in London, a loss of some of the 2017 high watermark councils & even an upset in the West Midlands Metro mayor could get people talking...

I think Black Wednesday could be a better analogy to this than Suez, if that's not being too optimistic.

Anyway, interesting that Starmer is training more fire on Sunak now

https://twitter.com/SophiaSleigh/status/1323230534206689281