Israeli General Election (2nd of March, 2020): Madness

[America Needs R'hllor]

It's a mistake by the Joint List to recommend Gantz, he's worse than Netanyahu when it comes to the peace plan.

It was the wish of the majority of the Palestinian-Israeli population . I’ll let them know they need to consult the brave keyboard warriors of America first next time

Don't even. TSA is Palestinian and has family in both "Israel proper" and the West Bank.

It's funny how I never hear you guys criticize pro-Israel American evangelicals like this.

It's a mistake by the Joint List to recommend Gantz, he's worse than Netanyahu when it comes to the peace plan.

Gantz is just the lesser evil and the only alternative to the establishment of a full apartheid ethno-estate by the Israeli hard right. If the Joint List does not recommend this centre-right zionist, their MKs will render useless and irrelevant. Gantz is bad, but the alternative is abominable. There are not good choices in Israeli politics, face it

Leave if you're not gonna contribute anything interesting/constructive ‍♂️

Yeah. He should strive to be the amazing, insightful poster that you are.

I think I voiced my strong dislike of the Jewish Right in America on more than one occasion, the same applies to the Palestinian expats who are quite similar in being more “radical”. It’s always easier to be radical when you don’t live through the ramifications.

The JL has the highest turnout ever because their public wanted them to help Gantz oust Bibi. I think they understand their needs better than our vigilantes here

As did my family and I share their sentiments as well they absolutely hate Gantz but their hatred of Bibi was stronger all I said was i think going into a coalition in the future will be a mistake and why it's likely to fall apart the second bibi is gone. It's incredibly lucky that Gantz and the Joint List were able to get together with Liberman to make this happen in the first place which is what i was initially trying to say.

Also I'm not really radical I have much to criticize among the Palestinian side

Recommending Gantz is just giving him the mandate to form a government, though. They won't enter a coalition, just (hopefully) support it from outside to help Gantz oust Bibi.

[The Mikado]

What are the chances that, when an actual minority government which includes Lieberman is actually proposed, Balad doesn't get cold feet? I'm just having difficulty imagining Balad actually actively voting to put a government with Yisrael Beiteinu in office.

[brucejoel99]

What are the chances that, when an actual minority government which includes Lieberman is actually proposed, Balad doesn't get cold feet? I'm just having difficulty imagining Balad actually actively voting to put a government with Yisrael Beiteinu in office.

The 35th government of Israel is one which will have been formed on the basis of Lieberman & Balad having to make up their minds. Who does Lieberman hate more: Bibi & the Haredim, or the Arabs? Is Balad more committed to hating Jews or getting real results for their people? Lieberman appears to have made up his mind, & now it's time for Balad to make up theirs.

[BP🌹]

What are the chances that, when an actual minority government which includes Lieberman is actually proposed, Balad doesn't get cold feet? I'm just having difficulty imagining Balad actually actively voting to put a government with Yisrael Beiteinu in office.

The 35th government of Israel is one which will have been formed on the basis of Lieberman & Balad having to make up their minds. Who does Lieberman hate more: Bibi & the Haredim, or the Arabs? Is Balad more committed to hating Jews or getting real results for their people? Lieberman appears to have made up his mind, & now it's time for Balad to make up theirs.

You people are impossible.

[brucejoel99]

What are the chances that, when an actual minority government which includes Lieberman is actually proposed, Balad doesn't get cold feet? I'm just having difficulty imagining Balad actually actively voting to put a government with Yisrael Beiteinu in office.

The 35th government of Israel is one which will have been formed on the basis of Lieberman & Balad having to make up their minds. Who does Lieberman hate more: Bibi & the Haredim, or the Arabs? Is Balad more committed to hating Jews or getting real results for their people? Lieberman appears to have made up his mind, & now it's time for Balad to make up theirs.

You people are impossible.

K. Ignoring the legitimate issues surrounding Balad which there's no point in discussing with you since where you stand is where you stand &, as such, there's absolutely zero chance I'd ever even come close to a point at which you'd consider being more open-minded: I've very much talked about my being Jewish on the Forum before so, with that in mind...

[BP🌹]

There are real concerns a lot of people have about Gantz, and I don't think it's right to just dismiss them as antisemitism. You can argue that Balad is betraying the people who voted for the Joint List, fine. But their opposition to voting in Bibi-with-a-smile (and backed by people who don't even want them in the country as well) isn't simply out of a hatred for Jews.

I actually forgot that you were Jewish - you're one of many completely unremarkable red avatars here. When I said "you people", I was referring to people who share your politics (which were made clear by your post). But if you want to always interpret what I say in the worst possible way: fine by me. As far as I'm concerned, it only proves my point.

But if you felt threatened by what I said, I apologize.

[Walmart_shopper]

It's a mistake by the Joint List to recommend Gantz, he's worse than Netanyahu when it comes to the peace plan.

It was the wish of the majority of the Palestinian-Israeli population . I’ll let them know they need to consult the brave keyboard warriors of America first next time

Don't even. TSA is Palestinian and has family in both "Israel proper" and the West Bank.

It's funny how I never hear you guys criticize pro-Israel American evangelicals like this.

It's a mistake by the Joint List to recommend Gantz, he's worse than Netanyahu when it comes to the peace plan.

Gantz is just the lesser evil and the only alternative to the establishment of a full apartheid ethno-estate by the Israeli hard right. If the Joint List does not recommend this centre-right zionist, their MKs will render useless and irrelevant. Gantz is bad, but the alternative is abominable. There are not good choices in Israeli politics, face it

Leave if you're not gonna contribute anything interesting/constructive 🤷🏻‍♂️

Yeah. He should strive to be the amazing, insightful poster that you are.

I think I voiced my strong dislike of the Jewish Right in America on more than one occasion, the same applies to the Palestinian expats who are quite similar in being more “radical”. It’s always easier to be radical when you don’t live through the ramifications.

The JL has the highest turnout ever because their public wanted them to help Gantz oust Bibi. I think they understand their needs better than our vigilantes here

Young Palestinians abroad abroad sometimes like to LARP a kind of ideological and electric intifada as a way of getting in touch with their roots. Here in Israel (and Palestine) we have no such thoroughly American luxury. We have to find a way to carve out opportunities and lives for our families that are hopeful, prosperous, and humane. The carnival-barking politics of hate Bibi and the right have championed makes that much more difficult. So even if we have to stomach an imperfect leader like Gantz to get Netanyahu out, then absolutely we ahould do it. Being prissy about ideology is simply not an option for Arabs (or Jews) living with the consequences of politics here. Good for the Joint List integrating that reality.

[Walmart_shopper]

What are the chances that, when an actual minority government which includes Lieberman is actually proposed, Balad doesn't get cold feet? I'm just having difficulty imagining Balad actually actively voting to put a government with Yisrael Beiteinu in office.

The 35th government of Israel is one which will have been formed on the basis of Lieberman & Balad having to make up their minds. Who does Lieberman hate more: Bibi & the Haredim, or the Arabs? Is Balad more committed to hating Jews or getting real results for their people? Lieberman appears to have made up his mind, & now it's time for Balad to make up theirs.

Balad will definitely be on board. Lieberman likely will. I'm just not sure if Gantz can keep his own house in order.

[Blair]

Can someone give me an idiots guide as to A.) if Gantz will actually become PM B.) What hurdles remain? C.) Why people like Orla Levy and others either took so long or refused to back Gantz?

[brucejoel99]

Can someone give me an idiots guide as to A.) if Gantz will actually become PM

That's what we're all waiting to find out. It (weirdly) seems closer than ever, but there's still a (relatively) uphill battle to get there.

B.) What hurdles remain?

In order from least-to-most important:

1. Formally getting Lieberman & Labor on board a minority government. I say this is least important because it's already a presumed given that they'd support him in a confidence vote.

2. Balad. They've seemed to indicate that their individual party is opposed to Gantz, so it's not a given that they'd support him in a confidence vote, but they also didn't specifically object to the Joint List's recommendation of Gantz like they did last time, so that's a pretty good sign.

3. Hauser & Handel. As they've evidently made clear, they don't want a minority government that involves support from Arab parties, so if at least one of them votes against it (while Balad abstains) in a confidence vote, then Gantz has no government, & a fourth election it is. However, it's also rumored that they might vote for a minority government supported by the JL if a unity government is impossible, & with Bibi's recent moves, that might be becoming the case. If not, though, then a fourth election it is.

C.) Why people like Orla Levy and others either took so long or refused to back Gantz?

With regards to Balad, it ultimately comes down to whether or not their main priority is removing Bibi from power above all else, & while they don't love Gantz, they'll hopefully reach the conclusion that they'll be better treated under a Gantz-led government.

As for Hauser & Handel, they just really don't want a minority government that involves Arab support. They'd much rather (somehow) have a unity government, to the point that they forced the 3rd election, but with the coronavirus pandemic crippling the country's economy & public life this time, they're really stuck between a rock & a hard place now re: allowing the formation of a minority government so that it can focus on fighting & containing the emergency.

And Orly Levy is just a snake who took votes from leftists that wanted a minority government so she could keep her seat in the Knesset.

[jaymichaud]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/accepting-task-of-forming-government-gantz-says-hell-work-to-form-one-in-days/

“A government that I’ll lead will help Israeli society recover from the coronavirus, as well as the virus of schism and hatred,”

👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

[Hnv1]

Currently there's talk of twicking the rules. direct elections where an indicted person can't take part and then move to a 4th election if Bibi doesn't concede. I honestly don't know what Likud will do at that point, not much to say legally, though politically...

[jaichind]

But would not a B&W government with JL support just mean a massive Likud landslide next election followed by some Netanyahu-like Likud PM in charge for 2-3 more election cycles?

[Walmart_shopper]

Can someone give me an idiots guide as to A.) if Gantz will actually become PM B.) What hurdles remain? C.) Why people like Orla Levy and others either took so long or refused to back Gantz?

a. Maybe. I hope so.

b. He needs every single part of his bloc to support a bid for a minority government, which is a mighty task. He otherwise needs huge concessions from the Likud to form a unity government, which is also a very mighty task.

c. She probably got offered a deal by the Likud to sell out the people. It happens, unfortunately.

[Walmart_shopper]

But would not a B&W government with JL support just mean a massive Likud landslide next election followed by some Netanyahu-like Likud PM in charge for 2-3 more election cycles?

Don't be so sure. There's a good chance the Likud disintegrates without Netanyahu. Bibi has turned the party into an avatar for his fortunes. His feast is the Likud's feast. His famine is the Likud's famine.

[Oryxslayer]

But would not a B&W government with JL support just mean a massive Likud landslide next election followed by some Netanyahu-like Likud PM in charge for 2-3 more election cycles?

Too far in the future to predict. Who knows what happens if Bibi leaves and politics is allowed to progress beyond this frozen breakdown from 2019. The govt could collapse as soon as Bibi leaves, or it could go on for a while. Post-bibi Likud could surge or collapse into infighting. Voters could start caring about issues beyond the limited scope of this eternal election cycle, and who knows what happens then.

[Oryxslayer]

It's a mistake by the Joint List to recommend Gantz, he's worse than Netanyahu when it comes to the peace plan.

It was the wish of the majority of the Palestinian-Israeli population . I’ll let them know they need to consult the brave keyboard warriors of America first next time

Don't even. TSA is Palestinian and has family in both "Israel proper" and the West Bank.

It's funny how I never hear you guys criticize pro-Israel American evangelicals like this.

It's a mistake by the Joint List to recommend Gantz, he's worse than Netanyahu when it comes to the peace plan.

Gantz is just the lesser evil and the only alternative to the establishment of a full apartheid ethno-estate by the Israeli hard right. If the Joint List does not recommend this centre-right zionist, their MKs will render useless and irrelevant. Gantz is bad, but the alternative is abominable. There are not good choices in Israeli politics, face it

Leave if you're not gonna contribute anything interesting/constructive 🤷🏻‍♂️

Yeah. He should strive to be the amazing, insightful poster that you are.

I think I voiced my strong dislike of the Jewish Right in America on more than one occasion, the same applies to the Palestinian expats who are quite similar in being more “radical”. It’s always easier to be radical when you don’t live through the ramifications.

The JL has the highest turnout ever because their public wanted them to help Gantz oust Bibi. I think they understand their needs better than our vigilantes here

Young Palestinians abroad abroad sometimes like to LARP a kind of ideological and electric intifada as a way of getting in touch with their roots. Here in Israel (and Palestine) we have no such thoroughly American luxury. We have to find a way to carve out opportunities and lives for our families that are hopeful, prosperous, and humane. The carnival-barking politics of hate Bibi and the right have championed makes that much more difficult. So even if we have to stomach an imperfect leader like Gantz to get Netanyahu out, then absolutely we ahould do it. Being prissy about ideology is simply not an option for Arabs (or Jews) living with the consequences of politics here. Good for the Joint List integrating that reality.

I'll add one thing to this discussion. It's not unique to the Palestinian expat/migrant community to pursue the political goal above all else, even though those on the ground may not even desire said political goal. Every expat/migrant group of considerable size ends up focusing solely on this political goal. The realities of life back home that concern those on the ground no longer apply to them, instead, these realities become part of their domestic political agenda. These groups therefore have the luxury of ideological purity in its different forms. This trend can be easily seen in some of histories most famous migrant/expat communities. For example, the Russian Settlement in 19th century Switzerland argued about what kind of revolution should occur and how it should be done. Everyone except for the most loyal ignored these expats because the day-today struggle for better wages, land, working conditions, and dignity was more important. Another example can be seen in 20th century US, with the various migrant groups who pushed US policy towards adopting their political views of the homeland. The Cubans want regime change in Cuba, no matter the consequences. The Vietnamese wanted retribution and ideally regime change in Vietnam, no matter the consequences. The Irish wanted the British out of Northern Ireland and supported Sinn Fein, no matter the nuance.

It's just how these things tend to go when you are removed from the immediate people on the ground.

[Tintrlvr]

It's a mistake by the Joint List to recommend Gantz, he's worse than Netanyahu when it comes to the peace plan.

It was the wish of the majority of the Palestinian-Israeli population . I’ll let them know they need to consult the brave keyboard warriors of America first next time

Don't even. TSA is Palestinian and has family in both "Israel proper" and the West Bank.

It's funny how I never hear you guys criticize pro-Israel American evangelicals like this.

It's a mistake by the Joint List to recommend Gantz, he's worse than Netanyahu when it comes to the peace plan.

Gantz is just the lesser evil and the only alternative to the establishment of a full apartheid ethno-estate by the Israeli hard right. If the Joint List does not recommend this centre-right zionist, their MKs will render useless and irrelevant. Gantz is bad, but the alternative is abominable. There are not good choices in Israeli politics, face it

Leave if you're not gonna contribute anything interesting/constructive 🤷🏻‍♂️

Yeah. He should strive to be the amazing, insightful poster that you are.

I think I voiced my strong dislike of the Jewish Right in America on more than one occasion, the same applies to the Palestinian expats who are quite similar in being more “radical”. It’s always easier to be radical when you don’t live through the ramifications.

The JL has the highest turnout ever because their public wanted them to help Gantz oust Bibi. I think they understand their needs better than our vigilantes here

Young Palestinians abroad abroad sometimes like to LARP a kind of ideological and electric intifada as a way of getting in touch with their roots. Here in Israel (and Palestine) we have no such thoroughly American luxury. We have to find a way to carve out opportunities and lives for our families that are hopeful, prosperous, and humane. The carnival-barking politics of hate Bibi and the right have championed makes that much more difficult. So even if we have to stomach an imperfect leader like Gantz to get Netanyahu out, then absolutely we ahould do it. Being prissy about ideology is simply not an option for Arabs (or Jews) living with the consequences of politics here. Good for the Joint List integrating that reality.

I'll add one thing to this discussion. It's not unique to the Palestinian expat/migrant community to pursue the political goal above all else, even though those on the ground may not even desire said political goal. Every expat/migrant group of considerable size ends up focusing solely on this political goal. The realities of life back home that concern those on the ground no longer apply to them, instead, these realities become part of their domestic political agenda. These groups therefore have the luxury of ideological purity in its different forms. This trend can be easily seen in some of histories most famous migrant/expat communities. For example, the Russian Settlement in 19th century Switzerland argued about what kind of revolution should occur and how it should be done. Everyone except for the most loyal ignored these expats because the day-today struggle for better wages, land, working conditions, and dignity was more important. Another example can be seen in 20th century US, with the various migrant groups who pushed US policy towards adopting their political views of the homeland. The Cubans want regime change in Cuba, no matter the consequences. The Vietnamese wanted retribution and ideally regime change in Vietnam, no matter the consequences. The Irish wanted the British out of Northern Ireland and supported Sinn Fein, no matter the nuance.

It's just how these things tend to go when you are removed from the immediate people on the ground.

The IRA historically getting most of its funding from Americans sometimes multiple generations removed from the ancestors who immigrated from Ireland was what sprang to mind immediately.

[jaymichaud]

But would not a B&W government with JL support just mean a massive Likud landslide next election followed by some Netanyahu-like Likud PM in charge for 2-3 more election cycles?

Too far in the future to predict. Who knows what happens if Bibi leaves and politics is allowed to progress beyond this frozen breakdown from 2019. The govt could collapse as soon as Bibi leaves, or it could go on for a while. Post-bibi Likud could surge or collapse into infighting. Voters could start caring about issues beyond the limited scope of this eternal election cycle, and who knows what happens then.

I can see B&W splitting up shortly after Bibi is gone. Once they no longer have a raison d’etre there isn’t much point in them going any further. If anyone in the party cares about a strong center-left they should work on rebuilding the Labor Party, maybe a ZU 2.0 is in order?

Likud might split into 2 but that’s unlikely.

[Velasco]

I get the impression (maybe superficial, because I'm not following this closely right now) there s no clear path for a minority government led by Gantz, mostly due to racism and prejudice. However, and regardless my low opinion of this politician, I think it's better for the Joint List and its constituency to follow the SDLP pragmatic approach (using the NI simil). Politics is very often a matter of opting for the lesser evil and the situation in Israel is very dire for the Palestinians and democracy in a broader sense. That's my opinion as an outsider and a person who dislikes Gantz

[#TheShadowyAbyss]

Who would be the possible successor to Netanyahu in Likud

[jake_arlington]

It's a mistake by the Joint List to recommend Gantz, he's worse than Netanyahu when it comes to the peace plan.

It was the wish of the majority of the Palestinian-Israeli population . I’ll let them know they need to consult the brave keyboard warriors of America first next time

Don't even. TSA is Palestinian and has family in both "Israel proper" and the West Bank.

It's funny how I never hear you guys criticize pro-Israel American evangelicals like this.

It's a mistake by the Joint List to recommend Gantz, he's worse than Netanyahu when it comes to the peace plan.

Gantz is just the lesser evil and the only alternative to the establishment of a full apartheid ethno-estate by the Israeli hard right. If the Joint List does not recommend this centre-right zionist, their MKs will render useless and irrelevant. Gantz is bad, but the alternative is abominable. There are not good choices in Israeli politics, face it

Leave if you're not gonna contribute anything interesting/constructive 🤷🏻‍♂️

Yeah. He should strive to be the amazing, insightful poster that you are.

I think I voiced my strong dislike of the Jewish Right in America on more than one occasion, the same applies to the Palestinian expats who are quite similar in being more “radical”. It’s always easier to be radical when you don’t live through the ramifications.

The JL has the highest turnout ever because their public wanted them to help Gantz oust Bibi. I think they understand their needs better than our vigilantes here

Young Palestinians abroad abroad sometimes like to LARP a kind of ideological and electric intifada as a way of getting in touch with their roots. Here in Israel (and Palestine) we have no such thoroughly American luxury. We have to find a way to carve out opportunities and lives for our families that are hopeful, prosperous, and humane. The carnival-barking politics of hate Bibi and the right have championed makes that much more difficult. So even if we have to stomach an imperfect leader like Gantz to get Netanyahu out, then absolutely we ahould do it. Being prissy about ideology is simply not an option for Arabs (or Jews) living with the consequences of politics here. Good for the Joint List integrating that reality.

I'll add one thing to this discussion. It's not unique to the Palestinian expat/migrant community to pursue the political goal above all else, even though those on the ground may not even desire said political goal. Every expat/migrant group of considerable size ends up focusing solely on this political goal. The realities of life back home that concern those on the ground no longer apply to them, instead, these realities become part of their domestic political agenda. These groups therefore have the luxury of ideological purity in its different forms. This trend can be easily seen in some of histories most famous migrant/expat communities. For example, the Russian Settlement in 19th century Switzerland argued about what kind of revolution should occur and how it should be done. Everyone except for the most loyal ignored these expats because the day-today struggle for better wages, land, working conditions, and dignity was more important. Another example can be seen in 20th century US, with the various migrant groups who pushed US policy towards adopting their political views of the homeland. The Cubans want regime change in Cuba, no matter the consequences. The Vietnamese wanted retribution and ideally regime change in Vietnam, no matter the consequences. The Irish wanted the British out of Northern Ireland and supported Sinn Fein, no matter the nuance.

It's just how these things tend to go when you are removed from the immediate people on the ground.

I dunno, a popular BJP among Indian-Americans perhaps? But the demographics already suit them neatly, so it's doubtful in my mind at least.

[Famous Mortimer]

It's a mistake by the Joint List to recommend Gantz, he's worse than Netanyahu when it comes to the peace plan.

It was the wish of the majority of the Palestinian-Israeli population . I’ll let them know they need to consult the brave keyboard warriors of America first next time

Don't even. TSA is Palestinian and has family in both "Israel proper" and the West Bank.

It's funny how I never hear you guys criticize pro-Israel American evangelicals like this.

It's a mistake by the Joint List to recommend Gantz, he's worse than Netanyahu when it comes to the peace plan.

Gantz is just the lesser evil and the only alternative to the establishment of a full apartheid ethno-estate by the Israeli hard right. If the Joint List does not recommend this centre-right zionist, their MKs will render useless and irrelevant. Gantz is bad, but the alternative is abominable. There are not good choices in Israeli politics, face it

Leave if you're not gonna contribute anything interesting/constructive 🤷🏻‍♂️

Yeah. He should strive to be the amazing, insightful poster that you are.

I think I voiced my strong dislike of the Jewish Right in America on more than one occasion, the same applies to the Palestinian expats who are quite similar in being more “radical”. It’s always easier to be radical when you don’t live through the ramifications.

The JL has the highest turnout ever because their public wanted them to help Gantz oust Bibi. I think they understand their needs better than our vigilantes here

Young Palestinians abroad abroad sometimes like to LARP a kind of ideological and electric intifada as a way of getting in touch with their roots. Here in Israel (and Palestine) we have no such thoroughly American luxury. We have to find a way to carve out opportunities and lives for our families that are hopeful, prosperous, and humane. The carnival-barking politics of hate Bibi and the right have championed makes that much more difficult. So even if we have to stomach an imperfect leader like Gantz to get Netanyahu out, then absolutely we ahould do it. Being prissy about ideology is simply not an option for Arabs (or Jews) living with the consequences of politics here. Good for the Joint List integrating that reality.

I'll add one thing to this discussion. It's not unique to the Palestinian expat/migrant community to pursue the political goal above all else, even though those on the ground may not even desire said political goal. Every expat/migrant group of considerable size ends up focusing solely on this political goal. The realities of life back home that concern those on the ground no longer apply to them, instead, these realities become part of their domestic political agenda. These groups therefore have the luxury of ideological purity in its different forms. This trend can be easily seen in some of histories most famous migrant/expat communities. For example, the Russian Settlement in 19th century Switzerland argued about what kind of revolution should occur and how it should be done. Everyone except for the most loyal ignored these expats because the day-today struggle for better wages, land, working conditions, and dignity was more important. Another example can be seen in 20th century US, with the various migrant groups who pushed US policy towards adopting their political views of the homeland. The Cubans want regime change in Cuba, no matter the consequences. The Vietnamese wanted retribution and ideally regime change in Vietnam, no matter the consequences. The Irish wanted the British out of Northern Ireland and supported Sinn Fein, no matter the nuance.

It's just how these things tend to go when you are removed from the immediate people on the ground.

Yes, every diaspora people is like this. Except oddly the Jews.

[Walmart_shopper]

It's a mistake by the Joint List to recommend Gantz, he's worse than Netanyahu when it comes to the peace plan.

It was the wish of the majority of the Palestinian-Israeli population . I’ll let them know they need to consult the brave keyboard warriors of America first next time

Don't even. TSA is Palestinian and has family in both "Israel proper" and the West Bank.

It's funny how I never hear you guys criticize pro-Israel American evangelicals like this.

It's a mistake by the Joint List to recommend Gantz, he's worse than Netanyahu when it comes to the peace plan.

Gantz is just the lesser evil and the only alternative to the establishment of a full apartheid ethno-estate by the Israeli hard right. If the Joint List does not recommend this centre-right zionist, their MKs will render useless and irrelevant. Gantz is bad, but the alternative is abominable. There are not good choices in Israeli politics, face it

Leave if you're not gonna contribute anything interesting/constructive 🤷🏻‍♂️

Yeah. He should strive to be the amazing, insightful poster that you are.

I think I voiced my strong dislike of the Jewish Right in America on more than one occasion, the same applies to the Palestinian expats who are quite similar in being more “radical”. It’s always easier to be radical when you don’t live through the ramifications.

The JL has the highest turnout ever because their public wanted them to help Gantz oust Bibi. I think they understand their needs better than our vigilantes here

Young Palestinians abroad abroad sometimes like to LARP a kind of ideological and electric intifada as a way of getting in touch with their roots. Here in Israel (and Palestine) we have no such thoroughly American luxury. We have to find a way to carve out opportunities and lives for our families that are hopeful, prosperous, and humane. The carnival-barking politics of hate Bibi and the right have championed makes that much more difficult. So even if we have to stomach an imperfect leader like Gantz to get Netanyahu out, then absolutely we ahould do it. Being prissy about ideology is simply not an option for Arabs (or Jews) living with the consequences of politics here. Good for the Joint List integrating that reality.

I'll add one thing to this discussion. It's not unique to the Palestinian expat/migrant community to pursue the political goal above all else, even though those on the ground may not even desire said political goal. Every expat/migrant group of considerable size ends up focusing solely on this political goal. The realities of life back home that concern those on the ground no longer apply to them, instead, these realities become part of their domestic political agenda. These groups therefore have the luxury of ideological purity in its different forms. This trend can be easily seen in some of histories most famous migrant/expat communities. For example, the Russian Settlement in 19th century Switzerland argued about what kind of revolution should occur and how it should be done. Everyone except for the most loyal ignored these expats because the day-today struggle for better wages, land, working conditions, and dignity was more important. Another example can be seen in 20th century US, with the various migrant groups who pushed US policy towards adopting their political views of the homeland. The Cubans want regime change in Cuba, no matter the consequences. The Vietnamese wanted retribution and ideally regime change in Vietnam, no matter the consequences. The Irish wanted the British out of Northern Ireland and supported Sinn Fein, no matter the nuance.

It's just how these things tend to go when you are removed from the immediate people on the ground.

Yes, every diaspora people is like this. Except oddly the Jews.

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic, but I wouldn't be in the State of Israel right now if the Jews weren't also like this.  In fact, Jewish nationalism is one of the thickest expressions of disasporic national identity that exists.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Anyway, the government passed a decision to monitor Israelis with counterterrorist tech last night, without any Knesset scrutiny. Authoritarian measures in middle of a crisis, with no checks and balances. Considering Netanyahu's history and situation, I personally cannot trust him to do it in good faith. A minority government has never been so crucial.