Structure, size and elections of Senate/House (Debating)
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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Structure, size and elections of Senate/House (Debating)
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Topic: Structure, size and elections of Senate/House (Debating) (Read 25969 times)
Chief Justice windjammer
windjammer
Atlas Politician
Atlas Icon
Posts: 14,377
Re: Structure, size and elections of Senate.
«
Reply #50 on:
October 26, 2015, 05:19:04 PM »
Honestly, I think we should adopt unicameralism for this time. If the new version of this game works well, I would be open to bicameralism. But reducing the number of offices should be right now our most important goal.
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Lincoln Republican
Winfield
Atlas Icon
Posts: 14,319
Re: Structure, size and elections of Senate.
«
Reply #51 on:
October 26, 2015, 05:52:46 PM »
As I have stated previously, bicameralism is a complete non starter for me.
I do not believe it is practical, and it would simply bog down the legislative process needlessly.
Besides, we could not support it with the required personnel at this time.
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Clark Kent
ClarkKent
Sr. Member
Posts: 3,479
Re: Structure, size and elections of Senate.
«
Reply #52 on:
October 26, 2015, 06:28:26 PM »
While bicameralism works better in real life, in-game for Atlasia, a unicameral legislature is ideal with the current low activity.
Logged
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
Moderator
Atlas Legend
Posts: 49,563
Re: Structure, size and elections of Senate.
«
Reply #53 on:
October 27, 2015, 01:18:46 AM »
I stand by the Duke plan, I think it is the most practical way to handle a legislative arrangement in a three region environment. I would however suggest a smaller house than the one he had originally, so maybe 7 instead of 11.
That still leaves a net 13 reduction on offices overall.
A single At-Large Senator, or VP acting as an At-Large senator serves no purpose other than to ensure there isn't a tie. We should consider the consituency being represented. He represents the majority of the nation, and yet that national majority would invariably be outvoted whenever two region's (4 Senators) section interests differ from that that of the national one. One of the benefits of the present system, is that such is impossible.
In the past, many argued this is rarely ever a situation, but we will soon have Regional Senators advancing sectional interests that are indead hostile to the national interest. I think therefore that ensuring the national majority has an equal seat at the table is of paramount importance, now that we have a tangible example facing us. A People's House like that in the Duke plan, address this concern.
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Senator Cris
Cris
Concerned Citizen
Posts: 5,556
Re: Structure, size and elections of Senate.
«
Reply #54 on:
October 27, 2015, 09:02:40 AM »
Are you ok with a principle vote on bicameralism?
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Associate Justice PiT
PiT (The Physicist)
Atlas Politician
Atlas Star
Posts: 29,379
Re: Structure, size and elections of Senate.
«
Reply #55 on:
October 27, 2015, 10:09:44 PM »
I think we should go ahead with a principle vote.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
Moderator
Atlas Legend
Posts: 49,563
Re: Structure, size and elections of Senate.
«
Reply #56 on:
October 28, 2015, 02:30:55 AM »
If bicameralism fails, I am going to push for the preservation of a class of Senators dedicated to representing the people of the nation in Nyman.
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bore
YaBB God
Posts: 4,197
Re: Structure, size and elections of Senate.
«
Reply #57 on:
October 28, 2015, 07:05:59 AM »
Quote from: Senator North Carolina Yankee on October 28, 2015, 02:30:55 AM
If bicameralism fails, I am going to push for the preservation of a class of Senators dedicated to representing the people of the nation in Nyman.
If bicameralism fails, I am going to push for the preservation of atlasia as a country that doesn't randomly torture kittens.
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ilikeverin
Atlas Politician
Atlas Icon
Posts: 16,180
Re: Structure, size and elections of Senate.
«
Reply #58 on:
October 28, 2015, 09:09:32 AM »
Wait, why would we want a bicameral system? We're already sustaining the unsustainable regions under this system; I don't know why we need
another
level of government.
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Lincoln Republican
Winfield
Atlas Icon
Posts: 14,319
Re: Structure, size and elections of Senate.
«
Reply #59 on:
October 28, 2015, 01:02:51 PM »
Quote from: ilikeverin on October 28, 2015, 09:09:32 AM
Wait, why would we want a bicameral system? We're already sustaining the unsustainable regions under this system;
I don't know why we need
another
level of government
.
Obviously, we don't.
Logged
Fmr. Pres. Duke
AHDuke99
Atlas Star
Posts: 22,047
Political Matrix
E: -0.84, S: -3.04
Re: Structure, size and elections of Senate.
«
Reply #60 on:
October 28, 2015, 01:22:10 PM »
Bicameralism doesn't add offices. It reduces them by nearly 15. I would never propose any plan that increases offices.
The plan increases the number of elections we have(this IS an election game), shortens terms, gives the VP a job, allows people to participate in the federal government by representing their region and makes the senate more of an at large elected body.
You can vote it down if you wish, but it's the only plan being proposed that actually changes the game and makes it interesting agsin by introducing a new dynamic we haven't experienced before without alienating a huge group of people that would leave if it became a mock parliament.
This plan was well thought would and explained in my September 2013 memorandum. It balances a lot of requests and sets the game up for long term success. And again, it REDUCES the number of offices. There will be no supporting even more offices. It would make the game fun agsin without breaking it
That's what I want.
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Senator Cris
Cris
Concerned Citizen
Posts: 5,556
Re: Structure, size and elections of Senate.
«
Reply #61 on:
October 28, 2015, 04:38:10 PM »
It's time for a principle vote. It'll last 48 hours.
What legislative system do you support?
[ ] Bicameralism
[ ] Unicameralism
[ ] Abstain
Logged
Chief Justice windjammer
windjammer
Atlas Politician
Atlas Icon
Posts: 14,377
Re: Structure, size and elections of Senate. (PRINCIPLE VOTE)
«
Reply #62 on:
October 28, 2015, 04:39:03 PM »
Unicameralism
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
Atlas Politician
Atlas Icon
Posts: 12,739
Re: Structure, size and elections of Senate.
«
Reply #63 on:
October 28, 2015, 05:35:16 PM »
What legislative system do you support?
[ ] Bicameralism
[X] Unicameralism
[ ] Abstain
I cast this vote reluctantly, as I do like the idea of bicameralism from a theoretical standpoint. Ultimately, however, I was forced to the conclusion that establishing a second legislative house is unwise at the present juncture - not for the usual reasons of governmental bloating or legislative gridlock, but out of concern for a quality whose absence has been one of the driving forces behind Atlasia's decline: competition.
Let us, for a moment, consider the smallest rendition of bicameralism thus far proposed: a 6 member Senate coupled with a 7 member House. Assuming each Region adopts a 5 man government, that would leave us with a total of 36 elected and appointed positions nationwide, or 12 less than the current 48. Unless we want every candidate for office to run unopposed, however, the number of active citizens needed to sustain such a state of affairs is actually much more than that. At minimum, a total of 58 active users would need to be more-or-less continually involved in the game (35 officers, plus 23 challengers for each elected position), and even then we would just barely have enough people to field two candidates for every office in every election. A hypothetical election in which every federal office was on the ballot (the president and VP, 6 Senators, and 7 Representatives) would require 30 candidates in order for every race to be competitive (if only half the Senate is elected every two months, the number would fall to 24). By contrast, last weekend's federal election saw a total of 14 candidates appear on the ballot, plus two write-in candidates for Midwest Senate.
If someone has a brilliant strategy for tripling the number of active office-seakers, I'm all ears; as for myself, I see no way to establish a meaningful bicameral system without unwittingly giving rise to a non-competitve party system.
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Clyde1998
Sr. Member
Posts: 2,938
Re: Structure, size and elections of Senate.
«
Reply #64 on:
October 28, 2015, 05:54:24 PM »
What legislative system do you support?
[X] Bicameralism
[ ] Unicameralism
[ ] Abstain
I think we could have two five member houses.
1x1 - President
5x1 - Senate
5x1 - House of Representatives
1x3 - Governors
5x3 - Regional Representatives.
29 elected officials.
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MyRescueKittehRocks
JohanusCalvinusLibertas
Concerned Citizen
Posts: 6,698
Re: Structure, size and elections of Senate. (PRINCIPLE VOTE)
«
Reply #65 on:
October 28, 2015, 06:46:12 PM »
Bicameral
Opportunity to be a voice in our government will drive activity in ways one on one recruitment won't plus this could be a workable compromise towards those of us that consolidation will negatively impact.
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Lincoln Republican
Winfield
Atlas Icon
Posts: 14,319
Re: Structure, size and elections of Senate. (PRINCIPLE VOTE)
«
Reply #66 on:
October 28, 2015, 07:59:45 PM »
Unicameralism
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VPH
vivaportugalhabs
YaBB God
Posts: 3,952
Political Matrix
E: -4.13, S: -0.17
Re: Structure, size and elections of Senate. (PRINCIPLE VOTE)
«
Reply #67 on:
October 28, 2015, 08:34:23 PM »
It's time for a principle vote. It'll last 48 hours.
What legislative system do you support?
[ X ] Bicameralism
[ ] Unicameralism
[ ] Abstain
Logged
NeverAgain
Concerned Citizen
Posts: 5,667
Re: Structure, size and elections of Senate. (PRINCIPLE VOTE)
«
Reply #68 on:
October 28, 2015, 08:59:57 PM »
[ X ] Bicameralism
[ ] Unicameralism
[ ] Abstain
Logged
Associate Justice PiT
PiT (The Physicist)
Atlas Politician
Atlas Star
Posts: 29,379
Re: Structure, size and elections of Senate. (PRINCIPLE VOTE)
«
Reply #69 on:
October 28, 2015, 09:06:23 PM »
[ ] Bicameralism
[X] Unicameralism
Quote from: Clyde1998 on October 28, 2015, 05:54:24 PM
What legislative system do you support?
[X] Bicameralism
[ ] Unicameralism
[ ] Abstain
I think we could have two five member houses.
1x1 - President
5x1 - Senate
5x1 - House of Representatives
1x3 - Governors
5x3 - Regional Representatives.
29 elected officials.
I will say, axing the Cabinet is a truly bold proposal. I fear it would create too many problems to be worth it, however.
Logged
tmthforu94
Atlas Politician
Atlas Star
Posts: 22,291
Political Matrix
E: 2.97, S: -1.57
Re: Structure, size and elections of Senate. (PRINCIPLE VOTE)
«
Reply #70 on:
October 28, 2015, 10:48:30 PM »
Ultimately it is a nice idea, but I find it to be unpractical at this point.
What legislative system do you support?
[ ] Bicameralism
[X] Unicameralism
[ ] Abstain
Logged
FL & OH Are Gone, Ya Dinguses
Adam Griffin
Atlas Icon
Posts: 18,044
Political Matrix
E: -7.35, S: -6.26
Re: Structure, size and elections of Senate. (PRINCIPLE VOTE)
«
Reply #71 on:
October 28, 2015, 10:51:48 PM »
[X] Bicameralism
[ ] Unicameralism
[ ] Abstain
Logged
Fmr. Pres. Duke
AHDuke99
Atlas Star
Posts: 22,047
Political Matrix
E: -0.84, S: -3.04
Re: Structure, size and elections of Senate. (PRINCIPLE VOTE)
«
Reply #72 on:
October 28, 2015, 11:33:50 PM »
[X]bicameralism
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
Moderator
Atlas Legend
Posts: 49,563
Re: Structure, size and elections of Senate.
«
Reply #73 on:
October 29, 2015, 12:11:56 AM »
What legislative system do you support?
[X] Bicameralism
[ ] Unicameralism
[ ] Abstain
Logged
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
Moderator
Atlas Legend
Posts: 49,563
Re: Structure, size and elections of Senate.
«
Reply #74 on:
October 29, 2015, 12:13:31 AM »
Quote from: Lincoln Republican on October 28, 2015, 01:02:51 PM
Quote from: ilikeverin on October 28, 2015, 09:09:32 AM
Wait, why would we want a bicameral system? We're already sustaining the unsustainable regions under this system;
I don't know why we need
another
level of government
.
Obviously, we don't.
It is not another layer of gov't. It is reorganizing the the legislative branch.
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