Structure, size and elections of Senate/House (Debating)

[windjammer]

My proposal:

        A senate composed by 7 senators:
-2 senators per region: 1 of them elected by the popular vote, the other by the regional legislature.
- Make the VP a senator so we won't have to deal with activity issues anymore (of course he won't be able to break the tie).



- Why keeping the regional system?
Basically, 2 games coexist. I'm not a specialist of AAD but I think that they are all elected at large. This is important to make 2 different games, in order to make them both attractive.

-Why making 3 senators elected by state legislature?
Simply, regional activity has always been much lower tha federal activity, and that's a shame because I have always preferred my time in the region than in Nyman.

-Why keeping the VP and making him a senator? For these following reasons:
    - A ticket of 2 persons (P/VP) greatly encourages multipartism. Indeed considering there are 2 posts, parties are basically forced to ally with at least an another party. If there is just the VP, it would strongly encourage bipartism. And bipartism sucks. Multipartism is much more interesting in term of gameplay etc etc.
    - People have always struggled to make this office active, no there won't be any problem with that considering he will be a full senator.
    - If there are 6 senators, a tie will often and it needs to be broken. So 7 senators would be better, because there would be much less tie.

[windjammer]

     Windjammer's plan is quite interesting. I would posit though that we should consider a holistic approach that also takes into account regional offices, so we have a complete picture of the number of offices in Atlasia.

Let's go!

Currently there are:
-The president, VP and the cabinet: 8 offices
-The senate: 10 offices
-5 governors
-3 supreme court justices
-5 regional court justices
-2 Lt governor: Mideast and MW
-19 members of state legislatures (5 for NE and ME, 3 for SE, PA and MW)

TOTAL: 52 offices


With my plan:
The president and the cabinet:
- President
-Attorney General
-SoIA
-SoEA
- RG
-SoFA
-Game moderator
= 7 offices

The senate: 7 offices

The Supreme court: 3 offices

The Governors: 3 offices

The region supreme court: 3 offices

And now the members of the states legislatures: I have the feeling 2 regions will have 3 representatives and one 5 representatives: so 11 representatives

TOTAL: 33 offices


So 19 offices less! Quite a big.


I would favor as well letting people have 2 offices in some cases. For example, I see no problem that a senator is as well a member of a state legislature. Or the SoEA being at the same time the SoIA, the RG being at the same time the SoFE etc etc. Of course, the president should never be allowed to have an another office. If we allow letting people have 2 offices, the number of officeholders would basically be cut by half I guess if we compare with the current situation.




 

[windjammer]

I like the idea of bicameralism, but I won't support that because cutting the number of offices should be the top priority.

[windjammer]

Honestly, I think we should adopt unicameralism for this time. If the new version of this game works well, I would be open to bicameralism. But reducing the number of offices should be right now our most important goal.

[windjammer]

Unicameralism

[windjammer]

I support the existence of regions. When I was "tracking" the senate with Cris, there was a big difference in term of level of activity between at-large senators and regional senators. Regional senators were averagely much more active.

[windjammer]

There are some good things in this plan.
But I cannot support it: I don't like the idea of the president having the power of breaking the tie. The president is a member of the executive power, not the legislative power.

[windjammer]

There are some good things in this plan.
But I cannot support it: I don't like the idea of the president having the power of breaking the tie. The president is a member of the executive power, not the legislative power.

Keep the VP, the one who will break the tie.

Yes, I agree.


So I oppose this amendment because I don't like the idea of the president of breaking the tie.

[windjammer]

There are some good things in this plan.
But I cannot support it: I don't like the idea of the president having the power of breaking the tie. The president is a member of the executive power, not the legislative power.

Keep the VP, the one who will break the tie.

Yes, I agree.


So I oppose this amendment because I don't like the idea of the president of breaking the tie.

What about making the Vice President a senator and then lowering the amount of members in the House? I find that acceptable, personally.

Yes me too!
7 senators (with 1 being the VP) for example.

[windjammer]

Nay.

But I like Cris' idea as well. The president breaking the tie is a big non-starter for me, so I can't support this plan overall. That's a shame because I like most of the other ideas.

[windjammer]

After some thought, changing my vote to Aye. I will support Cris or Truman's idea later.

[windjammer]

Well, considering bicameralism has been approved, in case the VP remains and isn't abolished:

I would like to lower the number of the house seats. I still believe the senate should be constituted of 6 senators (+VP being the tie breaker), but I do believe that 11 is a too big numbers. Why not lowering this number to 7? I do believe as well they should be elected at large, the senate representing the regions and the house of representatives representing Atlasia at large.

In case the VP remains, I would like to propose the idea of a new role for the VP:
Why not making him the coordinator between the 2 chambers. For example, if the House passes a piece of legislation, that should be him who should administer this piece of legislation in the senate. If anyone has an another idea it would be welcome. But yes, considering now that will be bicameralism, I think it might be possible to give the VP a role without making him basically a senator.

[windjammer]

Well,
9 representatives, this is fine for me. It would only increase the number of federal representatives by 5 in the end. Considering the number of regions will be reduced, I guess it is workable.

[windjammer]

In case the VP remains, I would like to propose the idea of a new role for the VP:
Why not making him the coordinator between the 2 chambers. For example, if the House passes a piece of legislation, that should be him who should administer this piece of legislation in the senate. If anyone has an another idea it would be welcome. But yes, considering now that will be bicameralism, I think it might be possible to give the VP a role without making him basically a senator.

Definitely!

Does anyone bother reading my original proposal? That's exactly what I had in mind for the VP. A lot of people are just talking before educating themselves which is making this process less efficient.

I m sorry Duke but I dont find your plan.

[windjammer]

Sorry, I'll post it when I get home. It's on my google docs page where I left it 2 years ago.

Haha

I wasn't even registered when you were elected with Marokai

[windjammer]

I believe Duke's plan is a great starting point for debate and improvement, if any is needed.

^^^^


Basically, some requests:
     -I still would like to keep the name "senate" for the legislative body representing the regions.
     - 6 senate members elected by half is a good idea. Here is my proposal: during the presidential election, senators should be elected like right now. But during the Midterms, I think it should be elected by the state legislatures. This is important to give them some duties, because if not, people won't give any interest to local races, and that's a shame considering this is honestly the local offices, that represents just my best memories.
     - 11 representatives: that's too big. I will advocate for 7 members (I mean, what's the problem with having 2 chambers that have the same number of people?). 9 members wouldn't be terrible either.

     And finally, if we implement bicameralism, we really need to let people hold more than 1 offices (with exceptions etc): For example, a local assemblyman should be able to be at the same time a member of a regional assembly and a senator or representative.
     

[windjammer]

I believe Duke's plan is a great starting point for debate and improvement, if any is needed.

^^^^


Basically, some requests:
     -I still would like to keep the name "senate" for the legislative body representing the regions.
     - 6 senate members elected by half is a good idea. Here is my proposal: during the presidential election, senators should be elected like right now. But during the Midterms, I think it should be elected by the state legislatures. This is important to give them some duties, because if not, people won't give any interest to local races, and that's a shame considering this is honestly the local offices, that represents just my best memories.
     - 11 representatives: that's too big. I will advocate for 7 members (I mean, what's the problem with having 2 chambers that have the same number of people?). 9 members wouldn't be terrible either.

     And finally, if we implement bicameralism, we really need to let people hold more than 1 offices (with exceptions etc): For example, a local assemblyman should be able to be at the same time a member of a regional assembly and a senator or representative.
     

There is absolutely zero point in having two chambers if they're the same size...furthermore, 7 at-large elected members = the same crappy and predictable system we have for the at-large elections now. An at-large system is not competitive with a small number of offices. Also, restricting offices to such a small size in your plan will not make it necessary to have dual-officeholding in cases other than where pure functionality dictates.

Your plan creates the exact same conditions we currently have.

Adam, don't forget we need to reduce the number of offices too!

I love you all so much. I'll have a drink for each of you tonight

The feeling is mutual, have a good drink .

[windjammer]

Option C

[windjammer]

1) 7
2)9

[windjammer]

Abstain, at-large

[windjammer]

I like the idea of president of congress.
Although I would like to be defined in the constitution as well.

[windjammer]

Aye