Russia-Ukraine war and related tensions Megathread

[John Dule]

"Fringe extremist"? My view is on the fringe when it is shared by 1.4 billion people, and another 1.3 billion or so people share similar views, at least when it comes to how their respective governments have responded to the war? If you think my support for the CCP is "excessively weird", does it pain you to learn that by and large, Chinese people support the CCP and the government, particularly when the West and the USA are held up as an alternative?

I don't care if I have any support or no support. As I meet the standards of decorum on this forum, if you get me banned I will have been banned for my views and opinions and you will have shown your hypocrisy about free speech, a freedom deemed so important it is the First Amendment in the US Constitution. There is a saying in the US about free speech, or at least there used to be: "I disagree completely with what you say, but I defend to the death your right to say it."

This forum is not bound to follow the Bill of Rights, lol. I know you have contempt for the Constitution and everything it stands for, but your claim to free speech (1) Does not apply in this context, and (2) Is invalidated by the moral code you supposedly adhere to.

Sure, I don't deny that. This forum is free to ban me. But that is the ultimate display of hypocrisy; while arguing for "democracy and freedom" in supporting Ukraine, you're kicking me out because you disagree with my views.

I don't agree with this forum's banning policy, but you have indeed violated the TOS, and people have been banned for much less than what you've said in this thread. The height of hypocrisy would be banning Sanchez while allowing a genocide denier like yourself to remain.

[Stranger in a strange land]

Notable that Israel voted in favor of condemning Russia.  They've made a mess of things trying to appease both the west and Russia.

How much of the actions of the Israeli government are driven by getting, and keeping, the votes of Russian-speaking Israeli voters?
Iirc, I remember reading somewhere that 25% of the Israeli population speaks Russian.

Even if true, I bet a lot of them are from Ukraine (IIRC most of the remaining Soviet Jews in Ukraine spoke Russian, including Zelensky's family) or have family there, and even the ones from Russia, Belarus, or elsewhere in the former USSR have little love for Putin.

[lfromnj]

"Fringe extremist"? My view is on the fringe when it is shared by 1.4 billion people, and another 1.3 billion or so people share similar views, at least when it comes to how their respective governments have responded to the war? If you think my support for the CCP is "excessively weird", does it pain you to learn that by and large, Chinese people support the CCP and the government, particularly when the West and the USA are held up as an alternative?

I don't care if I have any support or no support. As I meet the standards of decorum on this forum, if you get me banned I will have been banned for my views and opinions and you will have shown your hypocrisy about free speech, a freedom deemed so important it is the First Amendment in the US Constitution. There is a saying in the US about free speech, or at least there used to be: "I disagree completely with what you say, but I defend to the death your right to say it."

This forum is not bound to follow the Bill of Rights, lol. I know you have contempt for the Constitution and everything it stands for, but your claim to free speech (1) Does not apply in this context, and (2) Is invalidated by the moral code you supposedly adhere to.

Sure, I don't deny that. This forum is free to ban me. But that is the ultimate display of hypocrisy; while arguing for "democracy and freedom" in supporting Ukraine, you're kicking me out because you disagree with my views.

I don't agree with this forum's banning policy, but you have indeed violated the TOS, and people have been banned for much less than what you've said in this thread. The height of hypocrisy would be banning Sanchez while allowing a genocide denier like yourself to remain.

No?

Sanchez was banned for personal attacks not for his political views. Usually this forum is fairly lenient on political views except when it comes to trans people because anything that can be seen as even barely disparaging towards trans people is considered genocidal against them . Other than that  I think most stuff is free game. Sanchez was a good poster but he got what was coming to him. Compucomp clearly has not engaged in any personal attacks even in "self defense"

[TiltsAreUnderrated]

Apparently a Romanian fighter went missing over the Black Sea. They sent a helicopter to do a search and rescue and that went missing too...

It could be a result of bad weather conditions, but the timing this incident raises alarm bells.

https://twitter.com/Charles_Lister/status/1499115003579932675

The Romanian government reported the helicopter crashed due to bad weather shortly after taking off in search of the jet (all 5 aboard died). The jet has not been found, but the Romanians lost contact with it shortly after it was told to return to base due to bad weather.

This is probably the first incident since 1945 in which an aircraft and the aircraft sent to look for it crashed due to bad weather.

[Middle-aged Europe]

https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1499100975126265867

Russian television is Godwin's law with moving pictures.

[John Dule]

"Fringe extremist"? My view is on the fringe when it is shared by 1.4 billion people, and another 1.3 billion or so people share similar views, at least when it comes to how their respective governments have responded to the war? If you think my support for the CCP is "excessively weird", does it pain you to learn that by and large, Chinese people support the CCP and the government, particularly when the West and the USA are held up as an alternative?

I don't care if I have any support or no support. As I meet the standards of decorum on this forum, if you get me banned I will have been banned for my views and opinions and you will have shown your hypocrisy about free speech, a freedom deemed so important it is the First Amendment in the US Constitution. There is a saying in the US about free speech, or at least there used to be: "I disagree completely with what you say, but I defend to the death your right to say it."

This forum is not bound to follow the Bill of Rights, lol. I know you have contempt for the Constitution and everything it stands for, but your claim to free speech (1) Does not apply in this context, and (2) Is invalidated by the moral code you supposedly adhere to.

Sure, I don't deny that. This forum is free to ban me. But that is the ultimate display of hypocrisy; while arguing for "democracy and freedom" in supporting Ukraine, you're kicking me out because you disagree with my views.

I don't agree with this forum's banning policy, but you have indeed violated the TOS, and people have been banned for much less than what you've said in this thread. The height of hypocrisy would be banning Sanchez while allowing a genocide denier like yourself to remain.

No?

Sanchez was banned for personal attacks not for his political views. Usually this forum is fairly lenient on political views except when it comes to trans people because anything that can be seen as even barely disparaging towards trans people is considered genocidal against them . Other than that  I think most stuff is free game. Sanchez was a good poster but he got what was coming to him. Compucomp clearly has not engaged in any personal attacks even in "self defense"

The TOS bans promoting violence/harm against groups of people, which compucomp does on a daily basis through his Russian/Chinese apologism. As always I'm generally against bans, but if we're going to use them it might as well be on the people who actually deserve it.

[Cassius]

Re Israel, aside from the enormous Russian speaking diaspora population, there's a lot of Russian investment in the country (many 'oligarchs' are Jewish and have business interests in Israel) and there has also been a reasonable amount of coordination between the Russian and Israeli governments over the security situation in Syria (Russia has also pointedly refrained from criticising Israel's policies towards Palestine). The Russian government also makes small (but symbolic) monthly payments to Israeli Russians who emigrated prior to the collapse of the Soviet Union and to the dwindling band of Soviet war veterans now residing in Israel.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1499100975126265867

Russian television is Godwin's law with moving pictures.

And there of course reasons for that being true in this war. It's quite simple. In the Soviet Union, 25 million died. "X is Nazi" is very potent still, in a country where numerous Red Army soldiers who fought in the war are still alive, and they've yet to face quite a conflict of national survival again, to date.

Putin doesn't care if it's a lie. He will do this because he knows it is likely to work. Convince Russians this is a Donbass conflict, and by the time he's won, he can dictate what happens to  Ukraine.

Russia is masterful at disinformation, but when they concede the information front completely, things like this happen. What a strange war.

[Splash]

https://twitter.com/Forbes/status/1499128423947636739

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

"Fringe extremist"? My view is on the fringe when it is shared by 1.4 billion people, and another 1.3 billion or so people share similar views, at least when it comes to how their respective governments have responded to the war? If you think my support for the CCP is "excessively weird", does it pain you to learn that by and large, Chinese people support the CCP and the government, particularly when the West and the USA are held up as an alternative?

I don't care if I have any support or no support. As I meet the standards of decorum on this forum, if you get me banned I will have been banned for my views and opinions and you will have shown your hypocrisy about free speech, a freedom deemed so important it is the First Amendment in the US Constitution. There is a saying in the US about free speech, or at least there used to be: "I disagree completely with what you say, but I defend to the death your right to say it."

This forum is not bound to follow the Bill of Rights, lol. I know you have contempt for the Constitution and everything it stands for, but your claim to free speech (1) Does not apply in this context, and (2) Is invalidated by the moral code you supposedly adhere to.

Sure, I don't deny that. This forum is free to ban me. But that is the ultimate display of hypocrisy; while arguing for "democracy and freedom" in supporting Ukraine, you're kicking me out because you disagree with my views.

I don't agree with this forum's banning policy, but you have indeed violated the TOS, and people have been banned for much less than what you've said in this thread. The height of hypocrisy would be banning Sanchez while allowing a genocide denier like yourself to remain.

No?

Sanchez was banned for personal attacks not for his political views. Usually this forum is fairly lenient on political views except when it comes to trans people because anything that can be seen as even barely disparaging towards trans people is considered genocidal against them . Other than that  I think most stuff is free game. Sanchez was a good poster but he got what was coming to him. Compucomp clearly has not engaged in any personal attacks even in "self defense"

Sanchez was banned in connection with supporting 1/6. His posts about it did involve personal attacks but it absolutely had to do with him adopting unacceptable political stances as well. Let's not rewrite forum history here.

[Astatine]

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1499126022549217281

[Splash]

https://twitter.com/Acosta/status/1499138624104849412

[DaleCooper]

"Fringe extremist"? My view is on the fringe when it is shared by 1.4 billion people, and another 1.3 billion or so people share similar views, at least when it comes to how their respective governments have responded to the war? If you think my support for the CCP is "excessively weird", does it pain you to learn that by and large, Chinese people support the CCP and the government, particularly when the West and the USA are held up as an alternative?

I don't care if I have any support or no support. As I meet the standards of decorum on this forum, if you get me banned I will have been banned for my views and opinions and you will have shown your hypocrisy about free speech, a freedom deemed so important it is the First Amendment in the US Constitution. There is a saying in the US about free speech, or at least there used to be: "I disagree completely with what you say, but I defend to the death your right to say it."

This forum is not bound to follow the Bill of Rights, lol. I know you have contempt for the Constitution and everything it stands for, but your claim to free speech (1) Does not apply in this context, and (2) Is invalidated by the moral code you supposedly adhere to.

Sure, I don't deny that. This forum is free to ban me. But that is the ultimate display of hypocrisy; while arguing for "democracy and freedom" in supporting Ukraine, you're kicking me out because you disagree with my views.

I don't agree with this forum's banning policy, but you have indeed violated the TOS, and people have been banned for much less than what you've said in this thread. The height of hypocrisy would be banning Sanchez while allowing a genocide denier like yourself to remain.

No?

Sanchez was banned for personal attacks not for his political views. Usually this forum is fairly lenient on political views except when it comes to trans people because anything that can be seen as even barely disparaging towards trans people is considered genocidal against them . Other than that  I think most stuff is free game. Sanchez was a good poster but he got what was coming to him. Compucomp clearly has not engaged in any personal attacks even in "self defense"

Sanchez was banned in connection with supporting 1/6. His posts about it did involve personal attacks but it absolutely had to do with him adopting unacceptable political stances as well. Let's not rewrite forum history here.

fhtagn was banned over political stances too. I don't agree with either of their views, and honestly I don't even remember interacting with Sanchez, but if they are going to be banned for political opinions that don't involve genocide denial then it doesn't make sense to keep compucomp around. Keep in mind, I don't think any of them should be banned and I'd rather see those two unbanned than compucomp banned, but consistency is important in my opinion.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Can those of you discussing compucomp's views (and that includes him) please take it to a separate thread?  You are ruining this important thread for those of us who want to follow the actual war developments.

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/ScottMStedman/status/1499130395509411841

[lfromnj]

"Fringe extremist"? My view is on the fringe when it is shared by 1.4 billion people, and another 1.3 billion or so people share similar views, at least when it comes to how their respective governments have responded to the war? If you think my support for the CCP is "excessively weird", does it pain you to learn that by and large, Chinese people support the CCP and the government, particularly when the West and the USA are held up as an alternative?

I don't care if I have any support or no support. As I meet the standards of decorum on this forum, if you get me banned I will have been banned for my views and opinions and you will have shown your hypocrisy about free speech, a freedom deemed so important it is the First Amendment in the US Constitution. There is a saying in the US about free speech, or at least there used to be: "I disagree completely with what you say, but I defend to the death your right to say it."

This forum is not bound to follow the Bill of Rights, lol. I know you have contempt for the Constitution and everything it stands for, but your claim to free speech (1) Does not apply in this context, and (2) Is invalidated by the moral code you supposedly adhere to.

Sure, I don't deny that. This forum is free to ban me. But that is the ultimate display of hypocrisy; while arguing for "democracy and freedom" in supporting Ukraine, you're kicking me out because you disagree with my views.

I don't agree with this forum's banning policy, but you have indeed violated the TOS, and people have been banned for much less than what you've said in this thread. The height of hypocrisy would be banning Sanchez while allowing a genocide denier like yourself to remain.

No?

Sanchez was banned for personal attacks not for his political views. Usually this forum is fairly lenient on political views except when it comes to trans people because anything that can be seen as even barely disparaging towards trans people is considered genocidal against them . Other than that  I think most stuff is free game. Sanchez was a good poster but he got what was coming to him. Compucomp clearly has not engaged in any personal attacks even in "self defense"

Sanchez was banned in connection with supporting 1/6. His posts about it did involve personal attacks but it absolutely had to do with him adopting unacceptable political stances as well. Let's not rewrite forum history here.

fhtagn was banned over political stances too. I don't agree with either of their views, and honestly I don't even remember interacting with Sanchez, but if they are going to be banned for political opinions that don't involve genocide denial then it doesn't make sense to keep compucomp around. Keep in mind, I don't think any of them should be banned and I'd rather see those two unbanned than compucomp banned, but consistency is important in my opinion.

Fhtagn was actually banned over being overly dickish to Badger over the Rittenhouse thread IIRC. I was about to lock the thread until Ye cleaned it up. Badger although he engaged somewhat didn't go as far as Fhtagn.

[Middle-aged Europe]

https://twitter.com/ScottMStedman/status/1499130395509411841

That's a big f***ing boat.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

IIRC fhtagn was only temp banned but she opted not to return.

[NewYorkExpress]

Apparently Xi Jinping asked Putin to hold off on invading Ukraine until after the Olympics.

A Western intelligence report said senior Chinese officials told senior Russian officials in early February not to invade Ukraine before the end of the Winter Olympics in Beijing, according to senior Biden administration officials and a European official.

The report indicates that senior Chinese officials had some level of knowledge about Russia’s war plans or intentions before the invasion started last week. President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia met with President Xi Jinping of China in Beijing on Feb. 4 before the opening ceremony of the Olympics. Moscow and Beijing issued a 5,000-word statement at the time declaring that their partnership had “no limits,” denouncing NATO enlargement and asserting that they would establish a new global order with true “democracy.”

The intelligence on the exchange between the Chinese and Russian officials was classified. It was collected by a Western intelligence service and considered credible by officials reviewing it. Senior officials in the United States and allied governments passed it around as they discussed when Mr. Putin might attack Ukraine.

However, different intelligence services had varying interpretations, and it is not clear how widely the information was shared.


One official familiar with the intelligence said the material did not necessarily indicate the conversations about an invasion took place at the level of Mr. Xi and Mr. Putin. Other officials briefed on the intelligence declined to give further details. The officials spoke about the report on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the intelligence.

When asked by email on Wednesday whether Chinese officials had urged Russian officials to delay an invasion of Ukraine until after the Olympics, Liu Pengyu, the Chinese Embassy spokesman in Washington, said, “These claims are speculation without any basis, and are intended to blame-shift and smear China.”

China held the closing ceremony of the Olympics on Feb. 20. The next day, Mr. Putin ordered more Russian troops to enter an insurgent-controlled area of eastern Ukraine after state television broadcast a meeting between him and his national security council and a long speech in which he said Ukraine should be a part of Russia rather than existing as a country. Early on Feb. 24, the Russian military began a full-scale invasion of Ukraine, including carrying out attacks on Ukrainian cities with ballistic missiles, artillery shells and tank units.

[Tintrlvr]

Apparently Xi Jinping asked Putin to hold off on invading Ukraine until after the Olympics.

A Western intelligence report said senior Chinese officials told senior Russian officials in early February not to invade Ukraine before the end of the Winter Olympics in Beijing, according to senior Biden administration officials and a European official.

The report indicates that senior Chinese officials had some level of knowledge about Russia’s war plans or intentions before the invasion started last week. President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia met with President Xi Jinping of China in Beijing on Feb. 4 before the opening ceremony of the Olympics. Moscow and Beijing issued a 5,000-word statement at the time declaring that their partnership had “no limits,” denouncing NATO enlargement and asserting that they would establish a new global order with true “democracy.”

The intelligence on the exchange between the Chinese and Russian officials was classified. It was collected by a Western intelligence service and considered credible by officials reviewing it. Senior officials in the United States and allied governments passed it around as they discussed when Mr. Putin might attack Ukraine.

However, different intelligence services had varying interpretations, and it is not clear how widely the information was shared.


One official familiar with the intelligence said the material did not necessarily indicate the conversations about an invasion took place at the level of Mr. Xi and Mr. Putin. Other officials briefed on the intelligence declined to give further details. The officials spoke about the report on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the intelligence.

When asked by email on Wednesday whether Chinese officials had urged Russian officials to delay an invasion of Ukraine until after the Olympics, Liu Pengyu, the Chinese Embassy spokesman in Washington, said, “These claims are speculation without any basis, and are intended to blame-shift and smear China.”

China held the closing ceremony of the Olympics on Feb. 20. The next day, Mr. Putin ordered more Russian troops to enter an insurgent-controlled area of eastern Ukraine after state television broadcast a meeting between him and his national security council and a long speech in which he said Ukraine should be a part of Russia rather than existing as a country. Early on Feb. 24, the Russian military began a full-scale invasion of Ukraine, including carrying out attacks on Ukrainian cities with ballistic missiles, artillery shells and tank units.

It is striking that both of Russia's previous two invasions (of Ukraine in 2014 and of Georgia in 2008) also took place in the immediate vicinity of the Olympics. Something about the Olympics gets Putin hungry for blood.

Also I recall the Chinese being annoyed in 2008 that there was a war going on during the Opening Ceremony, so not hugely shocking that there was discussion of postponing war until after the Olympics this time.

[brucejoel99]

https://twitter.com/ScottMStedman/status/1499130395509411841

That's a big f***ing boat.

Hopefully, the Germans confiscated it for legitimate reasons such as this oligarch's sanctioned Russian connections & not just because they may or may not be secretly covering-up ongoing great white shark attacks in a Baltic coastal resort town & nothing that they've been throwing at the shark to kill it has been working, so now they're gonna need a bigger boat. (Sorry, couldn't help but try to lighten the mood a bit if at all possible, even if just for a moment)

[The Free North]

Apparently Xi Jinping asked Putin to hold off on invading Ukraine until after the Olympics.

A Western intelligence report said senior Chinese officials told senior Russian officials in early February not to invade Ukraine before the end of the Winter Olympics in Beijing, according to senior Biden administration officials and a European official.

The report indicates that senior Chinese officials had some level of knowledge about Russia’s war plans or intentions before the invasion started last week. President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia met with President Xi Jinping of China in Beijing on Feb. 4 before the opening ceremony of the Olympics. Moscow and Beijing issued a 5,000-word statement at the time declaring that their partnership had “no limits,” denouncing NATO enlargement and asserting that they would establish a new global order with true “democracy.”

The intelligence on the exchange between the Chinese and Russian officials was classified. It was collected by a Western intelligence service and considered credible by officials reviewing it. Senior officials in the United States and allied governments passed it around as they discussed when Mr. Putin might attack Ukraine.

However, different intelligence services had varying interpretations, and it is not clear how widely the information was shared.


One official familiar with the intelligence said the material did not necessarily indicate the conversations about an invasion took place at the level of Mr. Xi and Mr. Putin. Other officials briefed on the intelligence declined to give further details. The officials spoke about the report on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the intelligence.

When asked by email on Wednesday whether Chinese officials had urged Russian officials to delay an invasion of Ukraine until after the Olympics, Liu Pengyu, the Chinese Embassy spokesman in Washington, said, “These claims are speculation without any basis, and are intended to blame-shift and smear China.”

China held the closing ceremony of the Olympics on Feb. 20. The next day, Mr. Putin ordered more Russian troops to enter an insurgent-controlled area of eastern Ukraine after state television broadcast a meeting between him and his national security council and a long speech in which he said Ukraine should be a part of Russia rather than existing as a country. Early on Feb. 24, the Russian military began a full-scale invasion of Ukraine, including carrying out attacks on Ukrainian cities with ballistic missiles, artillery shells and tank units.

Unsurprising that the CCP only seems to care about their stupid sporting event and not, you know, the war.....

[Aurelius]

We've already gone beyond freedom fries 2.0, sadly.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Oilfield_Rando/status/1499146526404358148

[Pouring Rain and Blairing Music]

https://twitter.com/ScottMStedman/status/1499130395509411841

That's a big f***ing boat.

Hopefully, the Germans confiscated it for legitimate reasons such as this oligarch's sanctioned Russian connections & not just because they may or may not be secretly covering-up ongoing great white shark attacks in a Baltic coastal resort town & nothing that they've been throwing at the shark to kill it has been working, so now they're gonna need a bigger boat. (Sorry, couldn't help but try to lighten the mood a bit if at all possible, even if just for a moment)

Prora wasn’t built in a day.

I’m hoping that they sell it and use it to support the war effort or to help Ukrainian refugees.

[It’s so Joever]

New changes on the frontline: The obvious prize today is the fall of Kherson, with now even Ukrainian sources admitting the city has fallen to the Russians. There were a couple of other successes recently as well for the Russians on the Southern front that were overshadowed by the Kherson news, with the town of Antonivka (next to Kherson) and Kamianka-Dniprovska (near Enerhodar) captured fully. Little change in the other fronts, the Russians are definitely moving into a war of attrition against the Ukrainians, at the severe cost of human life.