MA-SEN Megathread: Senator Markey wins

[Holmes]

Kennedy hasn't run a great campaign, but Markey's campaign has been despicable.

He's been turning this race into a referendum on the Kennedy family and allied himself with these absolute assholes on the far-left who act as his shock troops doing everything they can to trash JKIII and the Kennedys as a whole.  Most of them had no idea who Kennedy or Markey were three months ago and now they're turned "Vote for Markey" into a progressive litmus test.

And you want to talk personal attacks?  Markey fired first.  But really, he's been firing throughout this campaign by letting Rose Twitter do the dirty work of oppo and character assassination against JKIII.

Such a shame that JKIII fell into this bear trap.  He was a rising star in the party, and ordinarily, running a primary campaign against a 74-year-old incumbent who's lost touch with his district is something we're cool with.  Right, AOC and Cori Bush fans?

Unfortunately, Markey used this destructive, divisive strategy, and now even if JKIII wins his career is going to be forever kneecapped by the relentless demonization and character assassination he's endured from the progressive left, for nothing other than the crime of challenging The Great Ed Markey, who I repeat, none of these people actually knows anything about other than that he's AOC's buddy.  Imagine if someone told them he voted for the Iraq War.  According to Bernie, that's a disqualifying mistake.

Stay mad lol

For real. Kennedy’s campaign has been a dud but he’s not short on keyboard warriors.

[brucejoel99]

Kennedy hasn't run a great campaign, but Markey's campaign has been despicable.

He's been turning this race into a referendum on the Kennedy family and allied himself with these absolute assholes on the far-left who act as his shock troops doing everything they can to trash JKIII and the Kennedys as a whole.  Most of them had no idea who Kennedy or Markey were three months ago and now they're turned "Vote for Markey" into a progressive litmus test.

And you want to talk personal attacks?  Markey fired first.  But really, he's been firing throughout this campaign by letting Rose Twitter do the dirty work of oppo and character assassination against JKIII.

Such a shame that JKIII fell into this bear trap.  He was a rising star in the party, and ordinarily, running a primary campaign against a 74-year-old incumbent who's lost touch with his district is something we're cool with.  Right, AOC and Cori Bush fans?

Unfortunately, Markey used this destructive, divisive strategy, and now even if JKIII wins his career is going to be forever kneecapped by the relentless demonization and character assassination he's endured from the progressive left, for nothing other than the crime of challenging The Great Ed Markey, who I repeat, none of these people actually knows anything about other than that he's AOC's buddy.  Imagine if someone told them he voted for the Iraq War.  According to Bernie, that's a disqualifying mistake.

The only campaign in this primary that diminished Joe Kennedy was Joe Kennedy's. He's an attractive candidate on paper, sure, but the more you hear from him, the less likeable & authentic he is. He comes off as the CEO's son promoted from sales manager to COO. He's been all over the place without any coherent sense of strategy, & many people are still being left to wonder how he's substantially different from Markey (especially after he changed many of his views to match Markey's).

He clearly had no reason to challenge Markey based on policy, & simply ran because he miscalculated & thought it'd be easy to beat Markey & gain prestige by being a Senator instead of a Congressman, so it's hardly "despicable" for the Markey campaign to call this kind of behavior out.

Moreover, it wasn't online progressives that made JKIII say that Markey is disqualified from having legitimate opinions on race relations because he voted for the 1994 crime bill. It wasn't online progressives that made JKIII shout that writing laws doesn't get anything done & that the only way for progress to occur is to have a revolution in the streets. JKIII is just a bad candidate, plain & simple. This is his first legitimately competitive election, & he's failing spectacularly.

Not to mention, JKIII had nothing to point to from the Markey campaign itself - be it an actual ad or statement or anything - that attacked him, so he had to settle for complaining about mEaN tWeEtS from Markey supporters. At that point, you knew he was in trouble.

And if anything, those actions of online progressives have weakened Markey by being absolute assholes & saying some absolutely awful sh*t that gets published & talked about in papers & on the local news. Do you really believe Markey somehow benefits from fauxgressives creating headlines such as: "Markey Supporters: 'Lee Harvey Oswald got the wrong Kennedy'"? Of course not! So no wonder he's explicitly condemned that sh*t.

Face it: JKIII's only real hope was for Markey to not take his challenge seriously &/or to commit some gaffe or show some age-related incapacity that would raise doubts. With regards to the former, Markey's ground game really improved & he emphasized his 40 years of service for the state to good effect (but sure, keep on saying that people only support him because he's "AOC's buddy," if that somehow makes you feel better for some reason). As for the latter, the debates are on YouTube so go see for yourself. In no way has Markey "lost touch" with the state of Massachusetts.

[S019]

Kennedy hasn't run a great campaign, but Markey's campaign has been despicable.

He's been turning this race into a referendum on the Kennedy family and allied himself with these absolute assholes on the far-left who act as his shock troops doing everything they can to trash JKIII and the Kennedys as a whole.  Most of them had no idea who Kennedy or Markey were three months ago and now they're turned "Vote for Markey" into a progressive litmus test.

And you want to talk personal attacks?  Markey fired first.  But really, he's been firing throughout this campaign by letting Rose Twitter do the dirty work of oppo and character assassination against JKIII.

Such a shame that JKIII fell into this bear trap.  He was a rising star in the party, and ordinarily, running a primary campaign against a 74-year-old incumbent who's lost touch with his district is something we're cool with.  Right, AOC and Cori Bush fans?

Unfortunately, Markey used this destructive, divisive strategy, and now even if JKIII wins his career is going to be forever kneecapped by the relentless demonization and character assassination he's endured from the progressive left, for nothing other than the crime of challenging The Great Ed Markey, who I repeat, none of these people actually knows anything about other than that he's AOC's buddy.  Imagine if someone told them he voted for the Iraq War.  According to Bernie, that's a disqualifying mistake.

Stay mad lol

No, but GMA has a point here. All of you cheerleaded primaries against Clay, Engel, Crowley, etc., arguing that they were too old or deserved a challenge or whatever. It does puzzle me that some people can't apply the same standard to Markey. Also GMA is right, most people probably don't even know about his long voting record.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

We need another poll that backs up that other one, Kennedy is behind but he is more like 4 to 6 pts behind, he isnt out of it

[new_patomic]

Employing anti-primary messages against Kennedy that you would deride in other races is pretty asinine.

Of course Markey isn't someone even remotely like Lipinski, but neither is this hurting fundraising in other races, nor is it going to cost us a Senate seat or irreparably divide the party. Kennedy was free to mount a campaign against Markey, and did so in part because Markey didn't seem to have a strong foundation of support compared to other incumbents. If this is also, in part, only possible thanks to his last name, then so be it; it's not exactly something Kennedy can help, and any politician is going to use their advantages whatever they may be.

But all the same, you better come prepared if you're going to try and take on an incumbent, especially one who isn't otherwise damaged or plagued with scandal. And if you're going to be challenging an incumbent, especially one you yourself previously spoke favorably towards, you need a reason for why you're better than them. This isn't an open seat where talking about that your vision is enough, you need a clear and believable message for why they should ditch the other guy.

Markey, smartly, hasn't rolled over and given him one. And neither was he just going to ignore Kennedy's single biggest advantage, his name.

[brucejoel99]

Kennedy hasn't run a great campaign, but Markey's campaign has been despicable.

He's been turning this race into a referendum on the Kennedy family and allied himself with these absolute assholes on the far-left who act as his shock troops doing everything they can to trash JKIII and the Kennedys as a whole.  Most of them had no idea who Kennedy or Markey were three months ago and now they're turned "Vote for Markey" into a progressive litmus test.

And you want to talk personal attacks?  Markey fired first.  But really, he's been firing throughout this campaign by letting Rose Twitter do the dirty work of oppo and character assassination against JKIII.

Such a shame that JKIII fell into this bear trap.  He was a rising star in the party, and ordinarily, running a primary campaign against a 74-year-old incumbent who's lost touch with his district is something we're cool with.  Right, AOC and Cori Bush fans?

Unfortunately, Markey used this destructive, divisive strategy, and now even if JKIII wins his career is going to be forever kneecapped by the relentless demonization and character assassination he's endured from the progressive left, for nothing other than the crime of challenging The Great Ed Markey, who I repeat, none of these people actually knows anything about other than that he's AOC's buddy.  Imagine if someone told them he voted for the Iraq War.  According to Bernie, that's a disqualifying mistake.

Stay mad lol

No, but GMA has a point here. All of you cheerleaded primaries against Clay, Engel, Crowley, etc., arguing that they were too old or deserved a challenge or whatever. It does puzzle me that some people can't apply the same standard to Markey.

Employing anti-primary messages against Kennedy that you would deride in other races is pretty asinine.

Of course Markey isn't someone even remotely like Lipinski, but neither is this hurting fundraising in other races, nor is it going to cost us a Senate seat or irreparably divide the party. Kennedy was free to mount a campaign against Markey, and did so in part because Markey didn't seem to have a strong foundation of support compared to other incumbents. If this is also, in part, only possible thanks to his last name, then so be it; it's not exactly something Kennedy can help, and any politician is going to use their advantages whatever they may be.

I think this just mostly has to do with the rank opportunism associated with JKIII's primary challenge. In the case of primary challenges against people like Crowley, Engel, & Clay, their challengers made clear cases for why the Democrat they were aiming to replace was out-of-touch with the district & its values. They offered serious arguments for why they'd better represent the district, & voters found their arguments compelling.

JKIII really hasn't done that. Markey has taken on a prominent role regarding climate change, energy issues, etc. & has been a consistent voice on both state & national issues alike. JKIII has ran to the right of Markey & hasn't provided any real argument for why he'd be the better Senator from the state of Massachusetts. It just seems like he's running to elevate his profile for a future presidential or vice-presidential nod & banking on his name-recognition & Camelot nostalgia to pull him over the line. In other words, the challenge is just wrong in ways that AOC, Bowman, & Bush's all weren't.

[Morning in Atlas]

Kennedy hasn't run a great campaign, but Markey's campaign has been despicable.

He's been turning this race into a referendum on the Kennedy family and allied himself with these absolute assholes on the far-left who act as his shock troops doing everything they can to trash JKIII and the Kennedys as a whole.  Most of them had no idea who Kennedy or Markey were three months ago and now they're turned "Vote for Markey" into a progressive litmus test.

Oh no, Markey didn't turn it into a referendum. It's almost like Kennedy is running this campaign on his last name. If Kennedy were Joe Smith, he would be laughed out of the room like Jon Svitavsky.

And you want to talk personal attacks?  Markey fired first.  But really, he's been firing throughout this campaign by letting Rose Twitter do the dirty work of oppo and character assassination against JKIII.

Right, Rose Twitter is killing Kennedy, not his inability to explain what he would bring to the table besides platitudes about "generational change" and "new leadership".

I wish mean tweets had as much power as you think they do. If they did, Joe Biden would be a footnote in history and we'd be jousting with the #KHive over party unity.

Such a shame that JKIII fell into this bear trap.  He was a rising star in the party, and ordinarily, running a primary campaign against a 74-year-old incumbent who's lost touch with his district is something we're cool with.  Right, AOC and Cori Bush fans?

You know why the left supported AOC and Cori Bush and not Kennedy. You're either obfuscating to score a cheap gotcha or you're as unable to render an opposing argument as Kennedy is.

Unfortunately, Markey used this destructive, divisive strategy, and now even if JKIII wins his career is going to be forever kneecapped by the relentless demonization and character assassination he's endured from the progressive left, for nothing other than the crime of challenging The Great Ed Markey, who I repeat, none of these people actually knows anything about other than that he's AOC's buddy.  Imagine if someone told them he voted for the Iraq War.  According to Bernie, that's a disqualifying mistake.

The reason Bernie could even use that zinger was because he actually voted against the Iraq War as a representative. Again, you're pretending like Kennedy wouldn't have done the same if he were in Congress in 2003. Given the information they had at the time, it was the politically expedient choice.

[new_patomic]

https://twitter.com/GlobePolitical/status/1295477618964410369?s=20

[Oryxslayer]

https://twitter.com/AdamBassWCCS/status/1295483498581700609?s=20

Perhaps reports of the death of the Kennedy campaign were greatly exaggerated.

[KaiserDave]

If Kennedy is losing because of morons on Rose Twitter than he’s weaker than I thought

[SWE]

Kennedy hasn't run a great campaign, but Markey's campaign has been despicable.

He's been turning this race into a referendum on the Kennedy family and allied himself with these absolute assholes on the far-left who act as his shock troops doing everything they can to trash JKIII and the Kennedys as a whole.  Most of them had no idea who Kennedy or Markey were three months ago and now they're turned "Vote for Markey" into a progressive litmus test.

And you want to talk personal attacks?  Markey fired first.  But really, he's been firing throughout this campaign by letting Rose Twitter do the dirty work of oppo and character assassination against JKIII.

Such a shame that JKIII fell into this bear trap.  He was a rising star in the party, and ordinarily, running a primary campaign against a 74-year-old incumbent who's lost touch with his district is something we're cool with.  Right, AOC and Cori Bush fans?

Unfortunately, Markey used this destructive, divisive strategy, and now even if JKIII wins his career is going to be forever kneecapped by the relentless demonization and character assassination he's endured from the progressive left, for nothing other than the crime of challenging The Great Ed Markey, who I repeat, none of these people actually knows anything about other than that he's AOC's buddy.  Imagine if someone told them he voted for the Iraq War.  According to Bernie, that's a disqualifying mistake.

Stay mad lol

No, but GMA has a point here. All of you cheerleaded primaries against Clay, Engel, Crowley, etc., arguing that they were too old or deserved a challenge or whatever. It does puzzle me that some people can't apply the same standard to Markey.

He only has a point if you're incapable of complex thought. Do you really think that people who largely backed Bernie Sanders for president are motivated by a principled opposition to old white men being in office and not any sort of policy? If you can't see a difference between primarying someone from the left and primarying someone from the right, then it means your politics is purely about aesthetics, which is your prerogative, but don't assume that everyone else looks at things the same way.

[GoTfan]

GMA once again, as always, is either missing the point on purpose or genuinely doesn't understand how someone can like Ed Markey.

I don't support Markey because he's on good terms with AOC (certainly doesn't hurt my opinion of him though). I support him because he's one of the biggest net neutrality fighters in Congress. I support him because he also wants to see single-payer healthcare established and cosponsored the Medicare For All Act. I support him because he's one of the strongest environmental warriors in Congress, authoring the Green New Deal and the Climate Security Act and is a strong opponent of the Dakota Access Pipeline.

If Kennedy had adopted those positions, then I would have been inclined to hear him out. Unlike a lot of other progressives, I don't particularly care if someone is supporting our ideas on principle or in a play for votes. Either way, you get the same result.

Instead, the only argument he's managed to articulate is "I'm young, he's old." In my opinion, not really that good an argument. As brucejoel points out, AOC, Jamaal Bowman and Cori Bush didn't run on that alone. They had genuine differences with the incumbent, whther it was policy or something else. If Kennedy has another reason for running other than the youth arugment or the "I'm a Kennedy" argument, then I haven't heard it.

The other thing that really rubs me the wrong way is the blatant opportunism. It's plain for everyone that he only wants the seat so he can run in 2024. Not just that, but it's also obvious that he thinks Warren would be too hard to beat in a primary, so he decided to go for the on-paper weaker opponent; same goes for him avoiding a primary with Pressley, who is looking more and more like Warren's successor each day.

The meltdown over the Boston Globe endorsement sealed the deal for me. The Kennedys are the poster children for white, well-off and well-educated, so that just proves that not only is he a terrible candidate, he also lacks basic self-awareness.

But hey, it's easier to say "Haha stupid lefties" than actually acknowledge any of these points. Maybe GMA should take a moment and consider that arch-progressives like myself and arch-moderates like AndriyValeriovich, who have absolutely nothing in common, both support Markey.

[brucejoel99]

The Morse internal today had Markey up 43-36 in MA-01, the Richard Neal internal from a couple months ago (according to Zaybay) had Kennedy up 20 points in the district.

Obviously small scale internals aren't the most accurate but that is hard to ignore.

That's consistent with statewide polling that had Kennedy up by 5-10 a few months ago & Markey up by 15 last week.

[GoTfan]

The Morse internal today had Markey up 43-36 in MA-01, the Richard Neal internal from a couple months ago (according to Zaybay) had Kennedy up 20 points in the district.

Obviously small scale internals aren't the most accurate but that is hard to ignore.

That's consistent with statewide polling that had Kennedy up by 5-10 a few months ago & Markey up by 15 last week.

It seems like you were right. The more people see of Kennedy, the less they like him.

[TiltsAreUnderrated]

Is it just me, or is Kennedy pulling fewer punches than ever before?

https://twitter.com/joekennedy/status/1295393770285010945
I actually have no problem with opportunism fuelling a primary challenge so long as said challenger can make a strong case independent of that opportunism. Kennedy has avoided some of the most major mistakes by committing to policies like M4A (the extent to which he is overtly primarying "from the right" is overstated - his backers in Congress might lean that way, but his campaign and voter base is another matter). However, as has been alluded to here, he's failed to muster up much of an argument for a referendum on the incumbent and the pivot to racial justice issues seems late.

Perhaps it will save him, but if this is the case Team Kennedy wants to commit to, it's a bad sign they're only boosting it just now.

[GeneralMacArthur]

I'm tired of people acting like Kennedy is only running on his name.  He's been in Congress for eight years.  Meanwhile everyone on this thread takes it as a given that Ayanna Pressley will run for Congress.  Even if she waits until 2026 for it, she'll have the same resume as JKIII has today.

Honestly I would probably be supporting Markey (or more realistically, not care about the race at all) if it were 2014 Markey running his 2014 campaign.  His alliance with the extremists, and their bizarre beatification of St. Markey, is one of the most insultingly stupid things happening in politics this year, and I can't help but feel that a lot of the left-wing obsession with this race is motivated by the opportunity to gleefully sh-t on a sacred cow of the mainstream Democratic Party, the Kennedy brand.

I'll address sawx's post if people want but I think the holes are pretty glaring and obvious.  Don't want to turn this thread into an everyone-vs-GMA fight.

More than anything else I just think it's a shame that the left couldn't support Markey without destroying JKIII.  They're obsessed with character assassination and negative campaigning.  JKIII could have been a great young leader in the party (that's why he was given the SOTU Response), but now he'll never be able to do anything without ten thousand leftists attacking him with these finely-honed talking points.  They don't have any legitimate reason to hate JKIII.

[KaiserDave]

His SOTU response was bad

[Calthrina950]

His SOTU response was bad

Agreed. As I recall, Kennedy looked like he was sweating when he gave the response. That distracted attention from his speech, which wasn't anything extraordinary.

[Brittain33]

I'm tired of people acting like Kennedy is only running on his name.  He's been in Congress for eight years.

If he were running for an open seat against others, fine, I'd grant that, but you don't take on a decent and progressive incumbent like Markey in a primary unless you have a strong differentiator. Literally his only differentiators are his age and his name. It's certainly not any distinction in his Congressional service. And Markey served and excelled in the House a lot longer than Kennedy did.

P.S. I hate rose Twitter with a passion and usually don't support their candidates. This time, it's different.

[GoTfan]

I'm tired of people acting like Kennedy is only running on his name.  He's been in Congress for eight years.  Meanwhile everyone on this thread takes it as a given that Ayanna Pressley will run for Congress.  Even if she waits until 2026 for it, she'll have the same resume as JKIII has today.

Honestly I would probably be supporting Markey (or more realistically, not care about the race at all) if it were 2014 Markey running his 2014 campaign.  His alliance with the extremists, and their bizarre beatification of St. Markey, is one of the most insultingly stupid things happening in politics this year, and I can't help but feel that a lot of the left-wing obsession with this race is motivated by the opportunity to gleefully sh-t on a sacred cow of the mainstream Democratic Party, the Kennedy brand.

I'll address sawx's post if people want but I think the holes are pretty glaring and obvious.  Don't want to turn this thread into an everyone-vs-GMA fight.

More than anything else I just think it's a shame that the left couldn't support Markey without destroying JKIII.  They're obsessed with character assassination and negative campaigning.  JKIII could have been a great young leader in the party (that's why he was given the SOTU Response), but now he'll never be able to do anything without ten thousand leftists attacking him with these finely-honed talking points.  They don't have any legitimate reason to hate JKIII.

You didn't bother reading mine or brucejoel's posts, did you?

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

I am so glad we are gonna get a Kennedy back into Senate

[tagimaucia]

I suppose everything I'm about to say is entirely subjective but I am truly befuddled by sentiments like "he could have been a great young leader in the senate."  He has no particular charisma or charm to speak of!  If his last name wasn't Kennedy he would just be a completely obscure congressman and never would have been given the SOTU response in the first place.

[TrendsareUsuallyReal]

I suppose everything I'm about to say is entirely subjective but I am truly befuddled by sentiments like "he could have been a great young leader in the senate."  He has no particular charisma or charm to speak of!  If his last name wasn't Kennedy he would just be a completely obscure congressman and never would have been given the SOTU response in the first place.

Let's be honest, if his last name wasn't Kennedy, chances are he never would have gone to Harvard or Stanford, let alone become a Congressman.

[MillennialModerate]

Kennedy hasn't run a great campaign, but Markey's campaign has been despicable.

He's been turning this race into a referendum on the Kennedy family and allied himself with these absolute assholes on the far-left who act as his shock troops doing everything they can to trash JKIII and the Kennedys as a whole.  Most of them had no idea who Kennedy or Markey were three months ago and now they're turned "Vote for Markey" into a progressive litmus test.

And you want to talk personal attacks?  Markey fired first.  But really, he's been firing throughout this campaign by letting Rose Twitter do the dirty work of oppo and character assassination against JKIII.

Such a shame that JKIII fell into this bear trap.  He was a rising star in the party, and ordinarily, running a primary campaign against a 74-year-old incumbent who's lost touch with his district is something we're cool with.  Right, AOC and Cori Bush fans?

Unfortunately, Markey used this destructive, divisive strategy, and now even if JKIII wins his career is going to be forever kneecapped by the relentless demonization and character assassination he's endured from the progressive left, for nothing other than the crime of challenging The Great Ed Markey, who I repeat, none of these people actually knows anything about other than that he's AOC's buddy.  Imagine if someone told them he voted for the Iraq War.  According to Bernie, that's a disqualifying mistake.

Amen. Finally some one who is awake on this race

[LabourJersey]

I genuinely don't understand why young progressive being skeptical or hesitant to support a political dynasty is somehow unfair, unreasonable or otherwise bad.

Young voters these days are a lot more class conscious now than they were in 1960 or 1980, for lack of a better term. They realize that the rich really do live a different life from them. The Kennedy family represents a world of wealth & power that progressives understandably view with a little suspicion.

Not to say that Markey is some poor working class boy who lucked out and wound up in the Senate. I just think that a guy like Kennedy is met with skepticism by a lot of progressives, and I don't blame them really.