January 6th legal proceedings and investigations megathread

[Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️]

I can say it and I do. I listened to the whole thing.

You can say it, but that doesn't mean it is necessarily true. In many cases in the past, oral arguments have appeared to indicate one thing, and then the court ends up ruling a different way. Nothing in oral arguments is binding, and is not the same at all as a decision.

I do suspect that your chicken is indeed more likely to hatch than not, but you are counting your chicken before it hatches.

Many people who assume that it is impossible the Supreme Court could rule in favor of Trump are the same ones who were (rightly) shocked that the Supreme Court chose to consider this at all, when there was no actual reason they needed to do so (could easily have just let the Appeals court ruling stand as it was), or who were shocked by many other things SCOTUS has done in the past from Bush v. Gore to Citizens United to whatever else.

[emailking]

https://twitter.com/harrylitman/status/1783561930201776323

Litman not bullish on a trial before the election, see above.

On air, I heard Neal Katyal (who's argued like 50 times in front of SCOTUS) that he still thinks a trial before the election is possible.

On air, Andrew Weissmann thinks if they remand the case back to Chutkan to scope out public vs. private acts, she could use the opportunity to have a detailed hearing on the matter with witnesses and evidence and everything. So there could be a "trial" in that sense, obviously with no jury or conviction or anything forthcoming. If she went that route, she wouldn't have to give them the 88 days she promised since it's not a trial, so she could do the hearing immediately and that would happen before the election for sure.

[randomusername]

https://www.mediaite.com/news/clarence-thomas-kicks-off-trump-immunity-hearing-by-saying-past-presidents-have-been-part-of-coups-without-prosecution/

Clarence Thomas apparently not able to tell the difference between a foreign country and the US

[2016]

https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1783577334601150542

[Landslide Lyndon]

https://www.mediaite.com/news/clarence-thomas-kicks-off-trump-immunity-hearing-by-saying-past-presidents-have-been-part-of-coups-without-prosecution/

Clarence Thomas apparently not able to tell the difference between a foreign country and the US

The fact that Thomas is going to decide a case where his wife is deeply involved and nobody talks about it is the clearest sign of how much the media have failed in covering Trump's legal issues.

[wbrocks67]

https://www.mediaite.com/news/clarence-thomas-kicks-off-trump-immunity-hearing-by-saying-past-presidents-have-been-part-of-coups-without-prosecution/

Clarence Thomas apparently not able to tell the difference between a foreign country and the US

The fact that Thomas is going to decide a case where his wife is deeply involved and nobody talks about it is the clearest sign of how much the media have failed in covering Trump's legal issues.

I'm old enough to remember when the Bill Clinton tarmac meeting was the biggest bombshell of the election and yet something like this is just... crickets...

[emailking]

I actually heard the issue of Thomas's wife raised last night on MSNBC.

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

Even Trump's attorney conceded that ST6 has a duty not to follow illegal orders. The Justice Department can't just arrest anyone Biden tells them too, including say all of Congress, even if he would hypothetically face no prosecution for it.

Remember that the President also has pardon power. The fact that ST6 "has a duty" not to follow illegal orders is cold comfort if they decide to "follow the chain of command/commander in chief" with the knowledge that the President will pardon them to ensure they are also at no risk of prosecution. Or perhaps the President pre-emptively pardons them at the same time as giving the order. And they also may not agree that the order is illegal.

What this would also mean is that the President just needs to get people who are personally loyal to the President into various positions of power, so that they can execute the President's orders, regardless of whether or not some lawyer says they are supposedly "legal."

But what is probably the even more important thing to consider is that the President could do the same thing with a private group, and would not need ST6 or the military for this at all. Presidents/political parties could set up party militias loyal to the party leader/President, similar to Hitler's SA for example. When the President is elected, the President could then tell the SA to perform a variety of illegal/unconstitutional acts, and the President would be immune to all legal consequences from that. And the President could give them all pardons to ensure that the SA militia members would also be free from prosecution as they execute the President's unconstitutional orders.

There is absolutely nothing in either the oral arguments today or the past history of the Roberts Court to suggest any real possibility that SCOTUS would grant Trump absolute immunity.  So I don't see how it's helpful at all to keep spewing out unsupported doomer fanfic.

[rob in cal]

Is this what things were like in the heyday of the Berlusconi legal warfare. Ups and downs, multiple trials simultaneously etc? Trump more and more seems like the US Berlusconi.

[Ferguson97]

Alito and Thomas genuinely deserve prison. I am tired of being told how intolerant I am for despising the people who want to destroy this country.

[Progressive Pessimist]

I have nothing more to say but "f*** the Supreme Court."

We better hope that Bragg and his prosecution really make their case, because it's just about the only accountability Trump will see before the election.

[Inmate Trump]

Expand the f**king Court.

Either that, or Biden could “deal” with them once they rule that presidents are above the law. This is so stupid. If we have a country in which the president is above the law then we no longer have a country. The entire Constitution would be null and void.

[emailking]

I have nothing more to say but "f*** the Supreme Court."

We better hope that Bragg and his prosecution really make their case, because it's just about the only accountability Trump will see before the election.

The good news is they are killing it so far!

[Inmate Trump]

Alito and Thomas genuinely deserve prison. I am tired of being told how intolerant I am for despising the people who want to destroy this country.

Everyone in a position to stand up to tyranny and treachery within our own country but chooses not to deserves prison at this point. We’re teetering on the edge and the Supreme Court is about to push us off.

[Farmlands]

Alito and Thomas genuinely deserve prison. I am tired of being told how intolerant I am for despising the people who want to destroy this country.

Everyone in a position to stand up to tyranny and treachery within our own country but chooses not to deserves prison at this point. We’re teetering on the edge and the Supreme Court is about to push us off.

They're not going to vote to give Presidents carte blanche, who atm is Biden, not Trump. I swear a staffer could leak the decision, and if it was against Trump, people here would still refuse to believe it and just doom post about how denocracy is dead forever instead.

[emailking]

Takeaways from Supreme Court arguments on Trump's immunity claims
Justices appear ready to reject Trump’s immunity claim but in a way that will delay the Jan. 6 trial

The Supreme Court appeared ready to reject former President Donald Trump’s claims of sweeping immunity and the broad protections he has sought to shut down his federal election subversion case, but also reluctant to give special counsel Jack Smith carte blanche to pursue those charges.

After nearly three hours of oral arguments, several of the justices seemed willing to embrace a result that could jeopardize the ability to hold a trial before the November election.

The court’s conservatives aggressively questioned the lawyer representing the special counsel, seemingly embracing a central theme that had been raised by Trump that without at least some form of immunity future presidents would over time be subjected to politically motivated prosecutions.

Much of the hearing focused on whether there should be a distinction between official acts by Trump pursuant to his presidential duties and his private conduct.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/25/politics/takeaways-trump-immunity-supreme-court/index.html

[Progressive Pessimist]

Expand the f**king Court.

Either that, or Biden could “deal” with them once they rule that presidents are above the law. This is so stupid. If we have a country in which the president is above the law then we no longer have a country. The entire Constitution would be null and void.

Yeah, I was skittish about that idea in the past, but if Democrats come away with a trifecta this year (perhaps miraculously) it's time to pack the courts. The institution needs to be saved from itself.

I have nothing more to say but "f*** the Supreme Court."

We better hope that Bragg and his prosecution really make their case, because it's just about the only accountability Trump will see before the election.

The good news is they are killing it so far!

That is good news. I just need reassurance that Americans will care if he gets convicted.

[VBM]

Why would he do it when it wouldn't happen?

Its always been weird to me how Atlas really struggles to understand what a hypothetical is

[VBM]

The court didn't go for that. It was presented as a hyperbolic example.

You can't say that "the court didn't go for that" unless and until they rule contrary to that.

And even if they ruled that directly we shouldn't arrest the Supreme Court and Congress (wtf?).

If they did rule that directly, think about the scenario it would set up. Think about it from a game theory type perspective. It would set up a scenario where you get a large payoff from striking first, and a very very large negative payoff if the other player strikes first. It would be sort of like nuclear war if it were not possible to do a retaliatory strike against a first strike. Under those incentives, both sides would be incentivized to pre-empt and strike first, because you suspect that if you don't strike first, the other side probably will.

Yeah, I honestly believe that in the (unlikely) event that SCOTUS declares that presidents have full immunity, the least worst option for the country would be for Biden to temporarily abuse his newfound power to “clean up” SCOTUS and have his new Justices override SCOTUS’s ruling.

If SCOTUS does give presidents full immunity, there is a very likely chance that Trump abuses his power and makes himself a dictator if he wins reelection. Even if Trump somehow doesn’t do this, it’s only a matter of time until some future president does.

[emailking]

Why would he do it when it wouldn't happen?

Its always been weird to me how Atlas really struggles to understand what a hypothetical is

Are you saying I don't understand what a hypothetical is?

[VBM]

Why would he do it when it wouldn't happen?

Its always been weird to me how Atlas really struggles to understand what a hypothetical is

Are you saying I don't understand what a hypothetical is?

I mean you literally did ask why Biden would abuse full immunity to assassinate political opponents when obviously the SC won't grant full immunity...

[emailking]

Ok well you're wrong in that I do understand what a hypothetical is and talked about them all morning, go back and read the posts. As for the one you quoted, I don't think you understand what I was referring to. The post above that refers to arresting Congress, not assassinating political opponents.

[Greedo punched first]

Trump will get absolute immunity. Biden will get no immunity. If Trump wins, Biden will end up behind bars.

[soundchaser]

Trump will get absolute immunity. Biden will get no immunity. If Trump wins, Biden will end up behind bars.

That's not what the article says!

[Landslide Lyndon]

This must be a joke. Right?
Right?

https://twitter.com/fordm/status/1783512127455584724