🇬🇷 Greek politics and elections

[Mike88]

That was a real shellacking for the candidates of ND and the first decisive defeat for Mitsotakis since 2016.
PASOK in now clearly the opposition party while SYRIZA can be at best described as its junior partner.

It was invevitable, someone can win power with just 37% of the vote, but when they need 50%+ they usually lose unless genuinely popular.

However neither PASOK or SYRIZA are a credible or popular opposition, at least right now, and the center-left is too small to win a Parliamentary election.

Even Kasselakis has fled to America after just 2 weeks on the job, full of collisions, internal fighting, and public ridicule.

I think the election results are a way for voters to not put all the "eggs in the same basket", and for ND to have some kind of counterbalance, at least on the local level.

[oldtimer]

That was a real shellacking for the candidates of ND and the first decisive defeat for Mitsotakis since 2016.
PASOK in now clearly the opposition party while SYRIZA can be at best described as its junior partner.

It was invevitable, someone can win power with just 37% of the vote, but when they need 50%+ they usually lose unless genuinely popular.

However neither PASOK or SYRIZA are a credible or popular opposition, at least right now, and the center-left is too small to win a Parliamentary election.

Even Kasselakis has fled to America after just 2 weeks on the job, full of collisions, internal fighting, and public ridicule.

I think the election results are a way for voters to not put all the "eggs in the same basket", and for ND to have some kind of counterbalance, at least on the local level.

Perhaps, but the pattern in local elections is very predictable in Greece:

Round 1 reflects local membership (not voters).
Round 2 is Government vs United Opposition (minus Communists).

If the greek government is genuinly vastly unpopular they lose big time in Round 1, that happened in 1986, 2019, and to a lesser extent 2002.

Unfortunately these Local Elections happened too close to the last General Election to make any safe predictions about the next one.

[oldtimer]

The leader of SYRIZA has proposed their party Convention to be held in February.

Until then the impression is that he will try to expel as many as possible in order to have a majority in the Convention, if he fails it is likely that an effort will be made on the Convention floor to sack him.

Kasselakis has a majority of 28 vs 16 of MP's, but there is a mechanism for his sacking bypassing the MP's.
He is still in America, having fled last Sunday.

There is a growing expectation that SYRIZA will disintegrate into smaller parties after their expected trouncing in the Euro Elections in May.

[oldtimer]

Looks like events are accelerating in SYRIZA.

After the publication of Kasselakis's economic program of cutting the minimum wage and firing civil servants to finance tax cuts, there was a wave of condemnation from the left and the first MEP to leave SYRIZA.

SYRIZA MP's have floated the name of their breakaway party: Revewal of the Ecological and Radical Left

Their aim is now to be ready for the Euro Elections in case Kasselakis is not ousted.

It looks like the showdown will be the meeting of SYRIZA's Central Commitee in about 3 weeks.

If Kasselakis is ousted, SYRIZA survives for now and it will have a new and perhaps proper leadership election.

If not, SYRIZA will splinter into probably 3 pieces.

[Mike88]

It seems that Kasselakis has started to expel party members. He accuses them of being "TV sponsors" of Mitsotakis. Many are warning that the Syriza is on the verge of disintegration.

[PSOL]

Good riddance

[oldtimer]

It seems that Kasselakis has started to expel party members. He accuses them of being "TV sponsors" of Mitsotakis. Many are warning that the Syriza is on the verge of disintegration.

He is trying to expell them.

He might not have the majority to do so, if he fails that means he's on borrowed time.

It's a reminder that Kasselakis is extremely unpopular since the very first day he ran for the SYRIZA leadership, and he's getting even less popular everyday that passes.

[Mike88]

Latest poll:

https://twitter.com/GreeceElects/status/1717274767999291502

[Jingizu]

This is making me nostalgic for PASOK and that’s not good.

[oldtimer]

Konstantopoulou lost a 2nd MP, the Mom of the MP she expellled for no apparent reason about a month ago.

She has 6 MP's left.

She loses party status in the Greek Parliament if she drops bellow 5 MP's, however since it's a family row it's expected to end there.

The Greek Government has also announced large tax increases on the Self-Employed.
ND had huge backing by them in the elections, so now it's seems ironic that they are being hunted down by those who they voted for.

They will be taxed on the basis of imaginary profits (a greek tax invention) rather than real ones.

[Flyersfan232]

Konstantopoulou lost a 2nd MP, the Mom of the MP she expellled for no apparent reason about a month ago.

She has 6 MP's left.

She loses party status in the Greek Parliament if she drops bellow 5 MP's, however since it's a family row it's expected to end there.

The Greek Government has also announced large tax increases on the Self-Employed.
ND had huge backing by them in the elections, so now it's seems ironic that they are being hunted down by those who they voted for.

They will be taxed on the basis of imaginary profits (a greek tax invention) rather than real ones.

why is pasok struggling to surpress syriza?

[oldtimer]

Konstantopoulou lost a 2nd MP, the Mom of the MP she expellled for no apparent reason about a month ago.

She has 6 MP's left.

She loses party status in the Greek Parliament if she drops bellow 5 MP's, however since it's a family row it's expected to end there.

The Greek Government has also announced large tax increases on the Self-Employed.
ND had huge backing by them in the elections, so now it's seems ironic that they are being hunted down by those who they voted for.

They will be taxed on the basis of imaginary profits (a greek tax invention) rather than real ones.

why is pasok struggling to surpress syriza?

The center-left in greece traditionally is made up of bankers, construction magnets, and advertisers, basically New Money.
But they all went bust when the economy entered the Depression in 2009, so now they are figures of ridicule and repulsion in society.

Without money for economic policies and patronage, they are left just with an unpopular social agenda.

The Center-Left in Greece is generally bankrupt of policies, credibility, and patronage, that affects not only SYRIZA but PASOK too.

This was made in 1964 by the BBC and is mostly still true today, and tells you that 90% of Greek politics is around economic policy and patronage, it's a quite informative film:

[oldtimer]

Referendum (yeap) announced today on national TV by Kasselakis, to expell everyone who disagrees with him.

He clearly doesn't have the majority within SYRIZA for purges, so he calls for voters from other parties to lend him a hand in destroying SYRIZA.
Which of course they would be glad to get rid of the competition.

In any case SYRIZA is due to officially start to disintegrate on Sunday.

[Coldstream]

Syriza’s disintegration seems to have started according to twitter.

[Mike88]

Removed the local election dates from the title.

Syriza’s disintegration seems to have started according to twitter.

From what I read in Greek press, 4 MPs have left the party and 43 members of party's central committee have also left. Euclid Tsakalotos, former Finance minister and former leadership candidate, is one of them.

[oldtimer]

Removed the local election dates from the title.

Syriza’s disintegration seems to have started according to twitter.

From what I read in Greek press, 4 MPs have left the party and 43 members of party's central committee have also left. Euclid Tsakalotos, former Finance minister and former leadership candidate, is one of them.

If the aim of Kasselakis's probable puppetmasters in the Shipping Industry is to destroy the greek center-left, the've done a good job.

It's a political Rocky Horror Picture Show.

Spoiler alert! Click Show to show the content.

Show

Kasselakis failed to push his Referendum through, as he still doesn't have a majority despite the constant shrinkage of SYRIZA.

What matters as a formality is whether the remnant of SYRIZA will have more MP's than PASOK before the next election.
In order for the Leader of what's left, to retain the role of Leader of the Opposition and it's public perks for a bit.

From previous votes, Kasselakis only has 28 MP's in his pockets, which is 4 less than PASOK, and some of those 28 are starting to think twice about supporting him.

As for new parties, most non-communist leftwing voters left SYRIZA a long time ago, and there is not much space for more than 1 in the Greek parliament.

So they either join all up in a revival of the old Synaspismos (Coalition of the Left and Progress) or they will all be left outside of Parliament due to splintering.

There seems to be at least 2 new parties formed from the ruins of SYRIZA that will have to compete with Konstantopoulou and Varoufakis in the Euro-elections.

Most SYRIZA voters will probably abstain from voting as a protest and disdain to the political Horror Show, shrinking the Center Left even more.

No one serious is expecting SYRIZA to remain 2nd in the Euro-elections, the Communists are preparing for a serious battle with them for 3rd.

As for Kasselakis, his Dr. Frank-n-furter act will most probably meet a similar political mutiny and end, most expect him to be "exiled" back to America to run for Congress in a Democrat Primary.

Though his reputation is so bad he probably could only be appointed to a post.

[Flyersfan232]

Removed the local election dates from the title.

Syriza’s disintegration seems to have started according to twitter.

From what I read in Greek press, 4 MPs have left the party and 43 members of party's central committee have also left. Euclid Tsakalotos, former Finance minister and former leadership candidate, is one of them.

If the aim of Kasselakis's probable puppetmasters in the Shipping Industry is to destroy the greek center-left, the've done a good job.

It's a political Rocky Horror Picture Show.

Spoiler alert! Click Show to show the content.

Show

Kasselakis failed to push his Referendum through, as he still doesn't have a majority despite the constant shrinkage of SYRIZA.

What matters as a formality is whether the remnant of SYRIZA will have more MP's than PASOK before the next election.
In order for the Leader of what's left, to retain the role of Leader of the Opposition and it's public perks for a bit.

From previous votes, Kasselakis only has 28 MP's in his pockets, which is 4 less than PASOK, and some of those 28 are starting to think twice about supporting him.

As for new parties, most non-communist leftwing voters left SYRIZA a long time ago, and there is not much space for more than 1 in the Greek parliament.

So they either join all up in a revival of the old Synaspismos (Coalition of the Left and Progress) or they will all be left outside of Parliament due to splintering.

There seems to be at least 2 new parties formed from the ruins of SYRIZA that will have to compete with Konstantopoulou and Varoufakis in the Euro-elections.

Most SYRIZA voters will probably abstain from voting as a protest and disdain to the political Horror Show, shrinking the Center Left even more.

No one serious is expecting SYRIZA to remain 2nd in the Euro-elections, the Communists are preparing for a serious battle with them for 3rd.

As for Kasselakis, his Dr. Frank-n-furter act will most probably meet a similar political mutiny and end, most expect him to be "exiled" back to America to run for Congress in a Democrat Primary.

Though his reputation is so bad he probably could only be appointed to a post.

what happening on the right meanwhile?

[Mike88]

First poll in 11 years in which PASOK is the second biggest party:

Opinion Poll for Action24:

38.5% ND (-0.6)
16.0% PASOK (+3.7)
14.7% Syriza (-2.6)
10.6% KKE (+1.1)
  5.9% EL (nc)
  3.9% NIKI (-0.7)
  3.0% Spartans (-0.6)
  2.5% PE (-0.9)
  2.4% MeRA25
  2.5% Other parties (-1.8 )

Poll conducted between 13 and 15 November 2023. Polled 1,011 voters.

[oldtimer]

Tsipras is on maneuvers since last night.

He has held private meetings with all leading SYRIZA people including Kasselakis.

The press has 2 estimates:
1. Tsipras is trying to prevent a further disintegration.
2. Tsipras is trying to do a Boris and try to return to the leadership after the complete disaster of his successor.

[oldtimer]

Removed the local election dates from the title.

Syriza’s disintegration seems to have started according to twitter.

From what I read in Greek press, 4 MPs have left the party and 43 members of party's central committee have also left. Euclid Tsakalotos, former Finance minister and former leadership candidate, is one of them.

If the aim of Kasselakis's probable puppetmasters in the Shipping Industry is to destroy the greek center-left, the've done a good job.

It's a political Rocky Horror Picture Show.

Spoiler alert! Click Show to show the content.

Show

Kasselakis failed to push his Referendum through, as he still doesn't have a majority despite the constant shrinkage of SYRIZA.

What matters as a formality is whether the remnant of SYRIZA will have more MP's than PASOK before the next election.
In order for the Leader of what's left, to retain the role of Leader of the Opposition and it's public perks for a bit.

From previous votes, Kasselakis only has 28 MP's in his pockets, which is 4 less than PASOK, and some of those 28 are starting to think twice about supporting him.

As for new parties, most non-communist leftwing voters left SYRIZA a long time ago, and there is not much space for more than 1 in the Greek parliament.

So they either join all up in a revival of the old Synaspismos (Coalition of the Left and Progress) or they will all be left outside of Parliament due to splintering.

There seems to be at least 2 new parties formed from the ruins of SYRIZA that will have to compete with Konstantopoulou and Varoufakis in the Euro-elections.

Most SYRIZA voters will probably abstain from voting as a protest and disdain to the political Horror Show, shrinking the Center Left even more.

No one serious is expecting SYRIZA to remain 2nd in the Euro-elections, the Communists are preparing for a serious battle with them for 3rd.

As for Kasselakis, his Dr. Frank-n-furter act will most probably meet a similar political mutiny and end, most expect him to be "exiled" back to America to run for Congress in a Democrat Primary.

Though his reputation is so bad he probably could only be appointed to a post.

what happening on the right meanwhile?

Nothing but the usual attempts by Mitsotakis to gain seats by banning the Spartans retroactively.

[Landslide Lyndon]

First poll in 11 years in which PASOK is the second biggest party:

Opinion Poll for Action24:

38.5% ND (-0.6)
16.0% PASOK (+3.7)
14.7% Syriza (-2.6)
10.6% KKE (+1.1)
  5.9% EL (nc)
  3.9% NIKI (-0.7)
  3.0% Spartans (-0.6)
  2.5% PE (-0.9)
  2.4% MeRA25
  2.5% Other parties (-1.8 )

Poll conducted between 13 and 15 November 2023. Polled 1,011 voters.

Finally, we are returning to normality. I hope that by next summer SYRIZA is reduced to single digits.

[President Johnson]

First poll in 11 years in which PASOK is the second biggest party:

Opinion Poll for Action24:

38.5% ND (-0.6)
16.0% PASOK (+3.7)
14.7% Syriza (-2.6)
10.6% KKE (+1.1)
  5.9% EL (nc)
  3.9% NIKI (-0.7)
  3.0% Spartans (-0.6)
  2.5% PE (-0.9)
  2.4% MeRA25
  2.5% Other parties (-1.8 )

Poll conducted between 13 and 15 November 2023. Polled 1,011 voters.

Finally, we are returning to normality. I hope that by next summer SYRIZA is reduced to single digits.

Agreed, though it's still a long way for PASOK to be competitive with ND I guess. Fortunately latter hasn't turned to the right like others in Europe (like Les Republicains or Tories) have.

[Neo-Malthusian Misanthrope]

First poll in 11 years in which PASOK is the second biggest party:

Opinion Poll for Action24:

38.5% ND (-0.6)
16.0% PASOK (+3.7)
14.7% Syriza (-2.6)
10.6% KKE (+1.1)
  5.9% EL (nc)
  3.9% NIKI (-0.7)
  3.0% Spartans (-0.6)
  2.5% PE (-0.9)
  2.4% MeRA25
  2.5% Other parties (-1.8 )

Poll conducted between 13 and 15 November 2023. Polled 1,011 voters.

Is it possible a Syriza collapse could push KKE above PASOK? I'm not really familiar with the dynamics of the left in Greece.

[Landslide Lyndon]

First poll in 11 years in which PASOK is the second biggest party:

Opinion Poll for Action24:

38.5% ND (-0.6)
16.0% PASOK (+3.7)
14.7% Syriza (-2.6)
10.6% KKE (+1.1)
  5.9% EL (nc)
  3.9% NIKI (-0.7)
  3.0% Spartans (-0.6)
  2.5% PE (-0.9)
  2.4% MeRA25
  2.5% Other parties (-1.8 )

Poll conducted between 13 and 15 November 2023. Polled 1,011 voters.

Is it possible a Syriza collapse could push KKE above PASOK? I'm not really familiar with the dynamics of the left in Greece.

No. We aren't THAT crazy.

[PSOL]

First poll in 11 years in which PASOK is the second biggest party:

Opinion Poll for Action24:

38.5% ND (-0.6)
16.0% PASOK (+3.7)
14.7% Syriza (-2.6)
10.6% KKE (+1.1)
  5.9% EL (nc)
  3.9% NIKI (-0.7)
  3.0% Spartans (-0.6)
  2.5% PE (-0.9)
  2.4% MeRA25
  2.5% Other parties (-1.8 )

Poll conducted between 13 and 15 November 2023. Polled 1,011 voters.

Is it possible a Syriza collapse could push KKE above PASOK? I'm not really familiar with the dynamics of the left in Greece.

S•••libs don’t like playing second fiddle