This Wretched Hive Of Scum And Villainy
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This Wretched Hive of Scum and Villainy
 
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Author Topic: This Wretched Hive Of Scum And Villainy  (Read 62526 times)
CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #875 on: December 10, 2023, 06:24:31 AM »

Well maybe "inspiration" isn't how I would describe the outpourings of the last 24 hours Wink
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TheTide
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« Reply #876 on: December 10, 2023, 06:29:03 AM »

He is someone who has been through the mud a bit, but am I the only one who thinks that Jenrick isn't being talked about enough as the next leader? His views seem to have 'evolved' enough to satisfy most of the membership, and he's more presentable than, say, Braverman. In terms of his own ambitions it's probably better that he becomes leader after the next election than before it though.
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President Punxsutawney Phil
TimTurner
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« Reply #877 on: December 10, 2023, 06:33:17 AM »

Well maybe "inspiration" isn't how I would describe the outpourings of the last 24 hours Wink
I was being a tad bit perhaps too charitable there. The operative part was desperation. Plus, it felt funny (and fitting) to backhandedly satirize the chaos in the contemporary Conservative Party with a Disraeli quote.
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Torrain
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« Reply #878 on: December 10, 2023, 06:38:48 AM »

Of course the “election winner Priti Patel”, and “Lord Farage, Home Secretary” fan-fiction is by Dan Hodges. *Of course*. Magnificent content.

Kinda wild that Starmer can brush off 10 ministerial resignations without a bother, but Sunak loses one minister, and suddenly the papers are full of stories like “the pasta plotters have met in Liz Truss’ favourite restaurant, a new PM is coming!”
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YL
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« Reply #879 on: December 10, 2023, 06:46:50 AM »

It seems like there's another fevered story about bringing Johnson back.  I haven't seen the details, so I don't know how the people pushing it intend to get round the rather obvious obstacle that he's not an MP any more.
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Torrain
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« Reply #880 on: December 10, 2023, 06:51:23 AM »

It seems like there's another fevered story about bringing Johnson back.  I haven't seen the details, so I don't know how the people pushing it intend to get round the rather obvious obstacle that he's not an MP any more.

The article proposes two options:

1. Priti Patel becomes “acting PM”, while Johnson is appointed party leader. They then win a glorious election victory, and she graciously stands aside for Johnson, who’s been elected in the snap election.

2. A Tory grandee stands down from a safe seat in the next month, and Johnson runs in the by-election. Which would be a choice, after Mid Beds…
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YL
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« Reply #881 on: December 10, 2023, 07:59:32 AM »

It seems like there's another fevered story about bringing Johnson back.  I haven't seen the details, so I don't know how the people pushing it intend to get round the rather obvious obstacle that he's not an MP any more.

The article proposes two options:

1. Priti Patel becomes “acting PM”, while Johnson is appointed party leader. They then win a glorious election victory, and she graciously stands aside for Johnson, who’s been elected in the snap election.

LOL

Quote
2. A Tory grandee stands down from a safe seat in the next month, and Johnson runs in the by-election. Which would be a choice, after Mid Beds…

Not only is there the question of whether there is such a thing as a safe seat in that sort of by-election, but wouldn't Sunak and his allies be able to block Johnson from being the Tory candidate?
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #882 on: December 10, 2023, 08:10:08 AM »

It seems like there's another fevered story about bringing Johnson back.

...after... well, not just everything but last week alone... really?
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Torrain
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« Reply #883 on: December 10, 2023, 08:26:11 AM »
« Edited: December 10, 2023, 08:30:18 AM by Torrain »

Not only is there the question of whether there is such a thing as a safe seat in that sort of by-election, but wouldn't Sunak and his allies be able to block Johnson from being the Tory candidate?

The source does elaborate a bit - and seems to think that if the local association want Johnson enough, CCHQ will just have to give in, for some reason.

When presumably, the default outcome is:
  • Grandee resigns from sprawling rural seat.
  • Johnson announces he's running.
  • CCHQ suspends the selection, and parachutes Seb Payne in.
  • Lib Dems win a 5,000 vote majority
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #884 on: December 10, 2023, 09:07:16 AM »

Not only is there the question of whether there is such a thing as a safe seat in that sort of by-election, but wouldn't Sunak and his allies be able to block Johnson from being the Tory candidate?

The source does elaborate a bit - and seems to think that if the local association want Johnson enough, CCHQ will just have to give in, for some reason.

When presumably, the default outcome is:
  • Grandee resigns from sprawling rural seat.
  • Johnson announces he's running.
  • CCHQ suspends the selection, and parachutes Seb Payne in.
  • Lib Dems win a 5,000 vote majority


I need this to happen. We all do.
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MaxQue
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« Reply #885 on: December 10, 2023, 09:14:25 AM »

Of course the “election winner Priti Patel”, and “Lord Farage, Home Secretary” fan-fiction is by Dan Hodges. *Of course*. Magnificent content.

Kinda wild that Starmer can brush off 10 ministerial resignations without a bother, but Sunak loses one minister, and suddenly the papers are full of stories like “the pasta plotters have met in Liz Truss’ favourite restaurant, a new PM is coming!”

Thankfully for her, Glenda Jackson already died, so she won't die of the embarassment caused by her son.
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« Reply #886 on: December 10, 2023, 10:37:33 AM »

If Boris tries to make a return (which isn't impossible, the man clearly believes there is unfinished business) it won't be through the Tory label imo.
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CrabCake
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« Reply #887 on: December 10, 2023, 10:38:38 AM »

If you (correctly) think Simon Clarke as PM is deranged, it still has nothing on the concoction of some right wingers breathlessly written up in the Mail today - Priti Patel is installed as "caretaker PM" and wins an election (despite her ratings when HS being even worse than Braverman's) in order to make way for the "dream ticket" of a restored BoJo with - and this is the real "chef's kiss" moment - Farage as his deputy (leaving aside the fact neither are currently MPs, and Nigel isn't in the Tory party)

"Fever dream" really doesn't do justice to this sort of stuff.
"Desperation is sometimes as powerful an inspirer as genius."
Benjamin Disraeli

In this case, the inspirer is a judicial amount of Class A drugs
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ingemann
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« Reply #888 on: December 10, 2023, 12:24:18 PM »

Of course the “election winner Priti Patel”, and “Lord Farage, Home Secretary” fan-fiction is by Dan Hodges. *Of course*. Magnificent content.

Kinda wild that Starmer can brush off 10 ministerial resignations without a bother, but Sunak loses one minister, and suddenly the papers are full of stories like “the pasta plotters have met in Liz Truss’ favourite restaurant, a new PM is coming!”

I must admit, I don't find it wild, as the resignation around Starmer have clear political reasons, they disagree with his Israel policy. It's clear cut and there's not much soup to be made on those bones. I doubt that Starmer's views of the Israel-Gaza conflict will have much effect on Labour, maybe Labour loses a few urban seats to some minor party/parties.

Among the Conservative on the other hand, there's a smell of blood in the water.
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Blair
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« Reply #889 on: December 10, 2023, 12:57:49 PM »

With Jenrick it’s worth remembering he has now left two high profile ministerial jobs because of policy failures from the government- the first at HCLG when planning reform failed (it was reported he had annoyed backbench Tory MPs) and this time with Rwanda.

It would be very bizarre to make him leader when I’m convinced some random Tory backbencher would do better- Generic (as he was nicknamed) reminds me a lot of the Conservative version of Jon Ashworth, but without the media skills or organisational ability.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #890 on: December 10, 2023, 03:33:00 PM »

It would be very bizarre to make him leader when I’m convinced some random Tory backbencher would do better- Generic (as he was nicknamed) reminds me a lot of the Conservative version of Jon Ashworth, but without the media skills or organisational ability.

Or the self-awareness to understand that very few men over thirty five can really get away with having their hair cut short at the upper front, especially if their job involves appearing on television...
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EastAnglianLefty
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« Reply #891 on: December 10, 2023, 03:56:10 PM »

Not only is there the question of whether there is such a thing as a safe seat in that sort of by-election, but wouldn't Sunak and his allies be able to block Johnson from being the Tory candidate?

The source does elaborate a bit - and seems to think that if the local association want Johnson enough, CCHQ will just have to give in, for some reason.

When presumably, the default outcome is:
  • Grandee resigns from sprawling rural seat.
  • Johnson announces he's running.
  • CCHQ suspends the selection, and parachutes Seb Payne in.
  • Lib Dems win a 5,000 vote majority


This isn't plausible. The default outcome is a much bigger Lib Dem majority.
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Pericles
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« Reply #892 on: December 10, 2023, 04:37:40 PM »

Jeez the BoJo fanclub really had to pick the week of his inquiry testimony for their latest hype session.
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TheTide
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« Reply #893 on: December 11, 2023, 05:45:55 AM »

There's a fair bit of concern within Tory ranks it seems about how Sunak would perform in a general election campaign, not quelled at all by the recent press conference. His appearance at the inquiry could be a sneak preview of that, or at least of how he'd do in televised debates and in the extensive interviews (done by the likes of Paxman and Neil in previous campaigns but probably someone else in the next one). Although having said that, the one-on-one encounters could be the biggest problem, as with e.g. Gordon Brown. 

Still, it's a shame (in a twisted kind of way) that we aren't going to have the spectacle of Liz Truss being at the forefront of an election campaign.
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #894 on: December 11, 2023, 10:17:51 AM »

John Rentoul said his performance was so good it would scare Starmer off election debates, though!
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Torrain
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« Reply #895 on: December 11, 2023, 02:23:45 PM »
« Edited: December 11, 2023, 02:28:36 PM by Torrain »

One Nation Tories will vote in favour, with basically no strings attached. An (expected) embarrassment, given the legislation in question. You really see why Thatcher labelled them ‘wets’.
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TheTide
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« Reply #896 on: December 11, 2023, 02:55:09 PM »

John Rentoul said his performance was so good it would scare Starmer off election debates, though!

AKA John Rentool, John Rent-a-quote etc.
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Torrain
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« Reply #897 on: December 12, 2023, 07:51:37 AM »
« Edited: December 12, 2023, 08:22:11 AM by Torrain »

Commons debate on the Rwanda bill has started. Might drop a few thoughts into this post as we go:
  • Daniel Kawczynski intervenes to raise accusations against the Rwandan administration by the Congolese government, going as far as to call Paul Kagame "a Hitler-type figure" and question Rwanda's status as a safe country. An unexpected intervention from someone very much on the Brexiteer right.
  • Rest of the debate has been pretty standard - demands for the bill to follow international law from One-Nationers, Bill Cash waffling in a way that no-one in the chamber can follow.
  • Robert Buckland suggests bill could undercut comity, and disrupt balance between parliament and judiciary. Cleverly stumbling through an answer about extreme times requiring extreme measures.
  • Yvette Cooper holding forth on the deficits in the Rwanda plan. She's included aspects of the Labour plan, but you can hear government MPs (largely Cleverly) muttering "Labour have no plan" over and over again. It's like a set of media-trained androids stuck on loop.
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Torrain
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« Reply #898 on: December 12, 2023, 08:16:36 AM »
« Edited: December 12, 2023, 11:43:36 AM by Torrain »

Peter Bone spotted arriving in Westminster. Whips must be a little jumpy if they're bringing someone who's not even supposed to *have* the whip (or be around Parliament) in. His suspension only ended in the past few days, and his recall petition is due this weekend.

Edit: DUP threatening to vote against the bill, narrowing the margin of error for Sunak. Unclear whether this is genuine, or one last shake of the magic money tree they discovered in 2017. To follow up on this - Sammy Wilson appears to have confirmed the DUP will vote no.
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #899 on: December 12, 2023, 09:56:18 AM »

DUP really has no reason to back the government now, which (obviously) doesn't mean they won't.
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