Biden infrastructure/tax increase megathread

[gerritcole]

Apparently biden didn’t directly ask house dems for their votes………..

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Apparently biden didn’t directly ask house dems for their votes………..

He said he isn't an arm twister, and Prez are persuasive people not arm twisters, RS couldn't get on board with all of Trump policies that's why they lost, they only passed 1 reform bill, Biden is on Act blue fundraising for Senate candidates, he is trying to expand his Senate majority and Pelosi is in charge of H


How is Biden so low and DS are the majority

We as D need to ignore these low Biden numbers it's propaganda til mid May, 2022

DS are gonna vote just like Re and it's a blk and brown election not a white male election

If we win in 2022 we will amend the Reconciliation bills to include immigration reform and RS can attach border security to and hopefully pass Reparations
Manchin,Sinema are only this powerful until Jan 3rd 2023

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Yeah, the country needs transformative change much more urgently than what it’s getting. The bill still needs to pass of course, because the current context has made it the best we can get, but I’ll agree that the Democratic Party is dealing with some internal rot.

People here are making it clear, though, that there is an untapped groundswell of disaffected voters on the left who are pissed off. I’m late to the party, but reading through, it sounds like there are a few of us who generally supported pragmatic candidates in the past but now feel the pragmatic option is actually to go big. This camp is growing, and it will continue to grow as it becomes clearer and clearer that needed change isn’t coming.

In a way, it mirrors what was happening in the GOP as early as Bush’s second term. Republicans were dissatisfied with their failure president, and election after election, the cultural conservative grievance wing grew and grew and grew until the right messenger came along to harness their energy and win the White House. Sarah Palin was a harbinger of Trump.

I’d posit that even though many people on the left thought Bernie Sanders could be the one to harness pissed-off liberal energy and win the White House, he just wasn’t the right guy for the job. The job still needs to be done though, and eventually the mood in the country will be ripe for someone to come along and tap into what the voters actually want. I don’t know that the change will happen fast enough to meet the real pressing needs of the moment, but because they are so pressing I do think the popularity of “the cause” will grow exponentially.

So long story short, the anger in this thread and the dissatisfaction throughout the country is probably a good sign for the longer-term of US politics. It’ll just take a lot of pain to get where we’re going in the meantime.

[Person Man]

Yeah, the country needs transformative change much more urgently than what it’s getting. The bill still needs to pass of course, because the current context has made it the best we can get, but I’ll agree that the Democratic Party is dealing with some internal rot.

People here are making it clear, though, that there is an untapped groundswell of disaffected voters on the left who are pissed off. I’m late to the party, but reading through, it sounds like there are a few of us who generally supported pragmatic candidates in the past but now feel the pragmatic option is actually to go big. This camp is growing, and it will continue to grow as it becomes clearer and clearer that needed change isn’t coming.

In a way, it mirrors what was happening in the GOP as early as Bush’s second term. Republicans were dissatisfied with their failure president, and election after election, the cultural conservative grievance wing grew and grew and grew until the right messenger came along to harness their energy and win the White House. Sarah Palin was a harbinger of Trump.

I’d posit that even though many people on the left thought Bernie Sanders could be the one to harness pissed-off liberal energy and win the White House, he just wasn’t the right guy for the job. The job still needs to be done though, and eventually the mood in the country will be ripe for someone to come along and tap into what the voters actually want. I don’t know that the change will happen fast enough to meet the real pressing needs of the moment, but because they are so pressing I do think the popularity of “the cause” will grow exponentially.

So long story short, the anger in this thread and the dissatisfaction throughout the country is probably a good sign for the longer-term of US politics. It’ll just take a lot of pain to get where we’re going in the meantime.

Their time will come but that doesn’t mean that nothing is better than something now.

[Shadows]

Only 9? Not good

I'd have to hope those numbers will grow once it becomes clear than Manchin and Sinema are trying to swindle us again.

I think this is old news, they were saying in Politico there were 9 ‘hard; noes a few days ago. There are clearly more.

Though, FWIW, 9 is the exact number of the traitors who tried to force a vote earlier this month. Apparently 9 congressmen from the right can drive the caucus and 9 congressmen from the left are a problem to be squashed.

I’ve usually been rather supportive of Pelosi, but I have no idea wtf she thinks she’s doing.

Jayapal said there are several dozen members - Meaning 24 or 36 or more if we have her word. She doesn't have a majority that is for sure in CPC in terms of voting no otherwise she should have said it.

I would guess it is probably 25-35 holdouts who are in different stages. Justice Dems alone are 8-9 odd, there has to be more than that !

[GM Team Member and Deputy PPT WB]

If this bill really does literally nothing, you'd think we could save the $1.8 trillion it's going to cost and instead spend $0 since apparently they'll both achieve the same result.

help me i'm too stupid to read what's in the bill and get all my opinions from angry-sounding twitter accounts

Do you just come on here intending to sound like an a-hole to everyone?

that's his schtick.

[MR DARK BRANDON]

If Justice Dem self-promoters want to vote against what will undoubtedly be an incredibly popular and influential bill, I say go for it.  Voting NO on the main thing Dems are gonna run on in the 2022 midterms doesn't seem like an ace political move to me, but what do I know, my tweets don't get 168K likes.

I seem to recall throughout 2015-2020 "progressives" justifying their outlandish, unworkable, fantasy-land demands by saying "you have to demand more than you want so you meet in the middle to get what you actually want."  Or some variant of that thinking.  So in this negotiation, Biden started by demanding the most progressive spending plan imaginable, and then the furthest-right members of the caucus pared it down to something that's still pretty good.  But now apparently that "meet in the middle" strategy goes out the window, and if you don't agree to the original demand, we're not going to vote for it.  OK, so the entire thing was in bad faith?  Like these people are just children.  Folks, please stop electing idiot children to Congress -- they don't know how to govern, they don't know how to legislate, they don't know how to negotiate, and all they do is humiliate the party day after day after day.

The squad is the most damaging group in American politics today. They don’t care about progress they just want to make Biden look bad so they can say “see I told you so! The establishment sucks!”

[Mr.Phips]

If Justice Dem self-promoters want to vote against what will undoubtedly be an incredibly popular and influential bill, I say go for it.  Voting NO on the main thing Dems are gonna run on in the 2022 midterms doesn't seem like an ace political move to me, but what do I know, my tweets don't get 168K likes.

I seem to recall throughout 2015-2020 "progressives" justifying their outlandish, unworkable, fantasy-land demands by saying "you have to demand more than you want so you meet in the middle to get what you actually want."  Or some variant of that thinking.  So in this negotiation, Biden started by demanding the most progressive spending plan imaginable, and then the furthest-right members of the caucus pared it down to something that's still pretty good.  But now apparently that "meet in the middle" strategy goes out the window, and if you don't agree to the original demand, we're not going to vote for it.  OK, so the entire thing was in bad faith?  Like these people are just children.  Folks, please stop electing idiot children to Congress -- they don't know how to govern, they don't know how to legislate, they don't know how to negotiate, and all they do is humiliate the party day after day after day.

The squad is the most damaging group in American politics today. They don’t care about progress they just want to make Biden look bad so they can say “see I told you so! The establishment sucks!”

To be honest,  Biden being a failed President would demonstrate that Dems need to stop nominating these candidates that promise impossible “bipartisanship”. 

[Xing]

If this bill really does literally nothing, you'd think we could save the $1.8 trillion it's going to cost and instead spend $0 since apparently they'll both achieve the same result.

help me i'm too stupid to read what's in the bill and get all my opinions from angry-sounding twitter accounts

People here aren’t saying it’s “literally nothing”, simply that far too much has been cut for it to be considered more than a disappointment. Especially since these are policies that Biden supports!

[wbrocks67]

We'll see...

Although, if they're willing to work on this starting Sunday, why couldn't they have just started on Friday, got it done over the weekend, and then voted on Monday??

https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1454480438928592896

[Anti Democrat Democrat Club]

If Justice Dem self-promoters want to vote against what will undoubtedly be an incredibly popular and influential bill, I say go for it.  Voting NO on the main thing Dems are gonna run on in the 2022 midterms doesn't seem like an ace political move to me, but what do I know, my tweets don't get 168K likes.

I seem to recall throughout 2015-2020 "progressives" justifying their outlandish, unworkable, fantasy-land demands by saying "you have to demand more than you want so you meet in the middle to get what you actually want."  Or some variant of that thinking.  So in this negotiation, Biden started by demanding the most progressive spending plan imaginable, and then the furthest-right members of the caucus pared it down to something that's still pretty good.  But now apparently that "meet in the middle" strategy goes out the window, and if you don't agree to the original demand, we're not going to vote for it.  OK, so the entire thing was in bad faith?  Like these people are just children.  Folks, please stop electing idiot children to Congress -- they don't know how to govern, they don't know how to legislate, they don't know how to negotiate, and all they do is humiliate the party day after day after day.

The squad is the most damaging group in American politics today. They don’t care about progress they just want to make Biden look bad so they can say “see I told you so! The establishment sucks!”

We're not the ones burning sh*t down.

[7,052,770]

If this bill really does literally nothing, you'd think we could save the $1.8 trillion it's going to cost and instead spend $0 since apparently they'll both achieve the same result.

help me i'm too stupid to read what's in the bill and get all my opinions from angry-sounding twitter accounts

People here aren’t saying it’s “literally nothing”, simply that far too much has been cut for it to be considered more than a disappointment. Especially since these are policies that Biden supports!

Not everyone, but absolutely people here are saying it's "literally nothing" and the like.

[Anti Democrat Democrat Club]

Again - I can't even imagine the sheer amount of privilege you have to call the group you disagree with on negotiation tactics worse than the Capitol rioters. Putting aside the fact that Liam is trying to dictate how Democrats should act when he's barely even a pledge, it really is the most privileged statement I've seen on this forum.

But on the other hand, he's saying what many on this forum are too afraid to.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

LOL, imagine thinking that the nationwide expanded Medicaid is worth a "couple hundred a year." Clearly someone has never bought health insurance on the individual market before.

Is anyone claiming we're gonna get medicaid expansion in this bill?

Yes. The bill includes Warnock's provision allowing blue jurisdictions in red states that didn't accept ACA Medicaid expansion dollars to offer their own Medicaid plans. This means people in places like Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, etc. can get access to Medicaid that they should have had a decade ago. Obviously, this is an awkward work-around but it does mean millions of people will now have expanded Medicaid access. In terms of tangible consequences of the bill, that's worth celebrating.

[MR DARK BRANDON]

Again - I can't even imagine the sheer amount of privilege you have to call the group you disagree with on negotiation tactics worse than the Capitol rioters. Putting aside the fact that Liam is trying to dictate how Democrats should act when he's barely even a pledge, it really is the most privileged statement I've seen on this forum.

But on the other hand, he's saying what many on this forum are too afraid to.

Well it’s their stalling of Biden’s agenda that are going to give the people you mentioned as well as these other crazy right wing groups a platform come 2022/2024

[Anti Democrat Democrat Club]

Again - I can't even imagine the sheer amount of privilege you have to call the group you disagree with on negotiation tactics worse than the Capitol rioters. Putting aside the fact that Liam is trying to dictate how Democrats should act when he's barely even a pledge, it really is the most privileged statement I've seen on this forum.

But on the other hand, he's saying what many on this forum are too afraid to.

Well it’s their stalling of Biden’s agenda that are going to give the people you mentioned as well as these other crazy right wing groups a platform come 2022/2024

Manchin and Sinema are the ones doing the stalling. Literally all this takes now is a verbal commitment from them.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Again - I can't even imagine the sheer amount of privilege you have to call the group you disagree with on negotiation tactics worse than the Capitol rioters. Putting aside the fact that Liam is trying to dictate how Democrats should act when he's barely even a pledge, it really is the most privileged statement I've seen on this forum.

But on the other hand, he's saying what many on this forum are too afraid to.

Well it’s their stalling of Biden’s agenda that are going to give the people you mentioned as well as these other crazy right wing groups a platform come 2022/2024

You realize there’s literally no reason to trust that Sinema and Manchin will vote for BBB if the vote on bipartisan infrastructure comes first, right?

Passing the bipartisan bill “right now” and never getting BBB would be way worse for Biden’s presidency than kicking the can down the road for another week but getting both bills. And make no mistake, those are the choices, unless and until those two senators commit to supporting Biden’s framework.

[CookieDamage]

Again - I can't even imagine the sheer amount of privilege you have to call the group you disagree with on negotiation tactics worse than the Capitol rioters. Putting aside the fact that Liam is trying to dictate how Democrats should act when he's barely even a pledge, it really is the most privileged statement I've seen on this forum.

But on the other hand, he's saying what many on this forum are too afraid to.

Well it’s their stalling of Biden’s agenda that are going to give the people you mentioned as well as these other crazy right wing groups a platform come 2022/2024

You realize there’s literally no reason to trust that Sinema and Manchin will vote for BBB if the vote on bipartisan infrastructure comes first, right?

Passing the bipartisan bill “right now” and never getting BBB would be way worse for Biden’s presidency than kicking the can down the road for another week but getting both bills. And make no mistake, those are the choices, unless and until those two senators commit to supporting Biden’s framework.

Agreed. If BIF passed last week and Manchin/Sinema ended up walking away from BBB, Biden would be humiliated and a serious blow would be dealt to his agenda, his approvals, his standing, and ultimately the Dem party's chances in '22 and '24.

Instead of his average disapproval looking like 51-43 on 538, we'd be seeing something like 54-39 if BIF survived and BBB totally disintegrated solely because of Manchin and/or Sinema. And of course Sinema's career would be thoroughly destroyed (not like she would care or it would even dawn on her that her future in Dem politics would be comprehensively dashed).

Of course the media is framing the lack of a vote on BIF as a huge blow to his agenda, but it's not as bad as a collapse of BBB would be.

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

Kaine's expectation - Bipartisan bill within 10 days, reconciliation by Thanksgiving. + thinks, it would have helped T-Mac, if Bipartisan bill had been passed earlier.
Brown's expectation - both bills by Thanksgiving.

Seems reasonable.

https://twitter.com/StevenTDennis/status/1454164783922561026
https://twitter.com/StevenTDennis/status/1454183391683821576

[Virginiá]

You realize there’s literally no reason to trust that Sinema and Manchin will vote for BBB if the vote on bipartisan infrastructure comes first, right?

Passing the bipartisan bill “right now” and never getting BBB would be way worse for Biden’s presidency than kicking the can down the road for another week but getting both bills. And make no mistake, those are the choices, unless and until those two senators commit to supporting Biden’s framework.

A question for naysayers should be why Manchin/Sinema seem so resistant and reluctant to just get all this done together in the first place. If they agree with what has been negotiated, it should not be an issue.

They are the primary reason why everything has stalled, and it's on them to stop nickle and diming everything and just come to an agreement that they can publicly get behind and actually vote on.

It's really pretty disgraceful that they can't make their case, negotiate for some of what they want, and just give their support to the rest, like the vast majority of the caucus does. It's not worth tanking the entire bill and damaging their party in the eyes of the public, and yet they don't seem to care about any of that.

[MR DARK BRANDON]

Let me be clear. I would support anybody in the squad over Donald Trump or Ron Desantis I said they where damaging cause I felt they where aiding Trump. Sorry for the confusion I have caused!

[MR DARK BRANDON]

Biden is a good president IMO and I don’t want to see him go and be replaced by someone like Trump again, and I feel like passing this would make his re election a lot more likely, I also support what’s in the bills as they would help the economy across the world, so naturally I want this done ASAP.

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

It's really pretty disgraceful that they can't make their case, negotiate for some of what they want, and just give their support to the rest, like the vast majority of the caucus does.

Didn't they do their case, though? What they want is simply put no tax raises, no more debt, no bigger state ("entitlement"), clean electricity program and so on + ceiling of 1.5T for the price tag (which Manching raised to 1.75T?). Their worries range from debt, inflation and non-competitiveness to more prosaic - WV loves coal!

[roxas11]

It's really pretty disgraceful that they can't make their case, negotiate for some of what they want, and just give their support to the rest, like the vast majority of the caucus does.

Didn't they do their case, though? What they want is simply put no tax raises, no more debt, no bigger state ("entitlement"), clean electricity program and so on + ceiling of 1.5T for the price tag (which Manching raised to 1.75T?). Their worries range from debt, inflation and non-competitiveness to more prosaic - WV loves coal!

Manchin has so much leverage and power at this point that he doesn't even have to make any case to the Democrat caucus at all. If tomorow he says that the reconciliation bill must be cut down to just 100 dollars there is literally nothing that anybody in the Democrat party can do about it.

Joe Manchin right now is the living embodiment of this old Kaye West lyric








 

[HagridOfTheDeep]

You realize there’s literally no reason to trust that Sinema and Manchin will vote for BBB if the vote on bipartisan infrastructure comes first, right?

Passing the bipartisan bill “right now” and never getting BBB would be way worse for Biden’s presidency than kicking the can down the road for another week but getting both bills. And make no mistake, those are the choices, unless and until those two senators commit to supporting Biden’s framework.

A question for naysayers should be why Manchin/Sinema seem so resistant and reluctant to just get all this done together in the first place. If they agree with what has been negotiated, it should not be an issue.

They are the primary reason why everything has stalled, and it's on them to stop nickle and diming everything and just come to an agreement that they can publicly get behind and actually vote on.

It's really pretty disgraceful that they can't make their case, negotiate for some of what they want, and just give their support to the rest, like the vast majority of the caucus does. It's not worth tanking the entire bill and damaging their party in the eyes of the public, and yet they don't seem to care about any of that.

Well, everything you're saying comes together to form a case for why some people believe Sinema is seriously considering blowing up the whole thing in a "dramatic moment" on the senate floor.

Nothing we've seen from her is consistent with a person who actually wants to accomplish something for the American people. That's why progressives have no faith in the process right now. Her actions make no sense unless you buy into the story that she's just savouring the attention. And that's scary.