Biden infrastructure/tax increase megathread

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

https://twitter.com/HotlineJosh/status/1448682116632350720

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

My wild guess, very wild guess, is that the end result of all of this is that 1) infrastructure passes this year, and 2) reconciliation passes next year with some bipartisan support for a pared own package. Manchin and/or Sinema take the position that the go it with Dems alone approach just isn't working, they don't want to be rushed, and it is time for a new approach, and they are done tolerating infrastructure being held hostage and are shutting that down.

Yes, all these stupid leaks and speculations seem like desperation and/or amateur hour to me.

If a possible inflation is really a true concern of Manchin and Sinema, they'd really work hard to "postpone" reconciliation bill [wait-and-see approach]. Will see, if it happens.

[Progressive Pessimist]

https://twitter.com/axios/status/1449015967770677258
This is defiantly not the impression I got from leaks of Sinema and Manchin (apparently he doesn’t like family and medical leave now) delivering ultimatums.

Maybe that’s a desperation play from them, or Biden is BSing.

It seems you've neglected an alternative possibility, that the White House is about to accommodate Sinema and Manchin and progressives are about to have the watered down reconciliation bill jammed down their throats.

I’ll grant that whatever happens you specifically will declare it a huge loss for progressives and the libs throughly owned.
In reality, two Senators don’t win fights with 48, the President, and the entire House of Reps.

That is actually the Senate working as intended with a tied chamber, and it exemplifies why it's such an undemocratic system. We might as well just be the United States of 50% of Arizona and West Virginia.

[compucomp]

Key to Biden’s Climate Agenda Likely to Be Cut Because of Manchin Opposition

WASHINGTON — The most powerful part of President Biden’s climate agenda — a program to rapidly replace the nation’s coal- and gas-fired power plants with wind, solar and nuclear energy — will likely be dropped from the massive budget bill pending in Congress, according to Congressional staffers and lobbyists familiar with the matter.

Senator Joe Manchin III, the Democrat from coal-rich West Virginia whose vote is crucial to the passage of the bill, has told the White House that he strongly opposes the clean electricity program, according to three of those people. As a result, White House staffers are now rewriting the legislation without that climate provision, and are trying to cobble together a mix of other policies that could also cut emissions.

Most on this thread saw this coming. To those that didn't, I think now would be a good time to quietly retreat from those loud hardline progressive stances and red lines before you're forced to choose between humiliation or irrationally rejecting half a loaf in favor of none.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Key to Biden’s Climate Agenda Likely to Be Cut Because of Manchin Opposition

WASHINGTON — The most powerful part of President Biden’s climate agenda — a program to rapidly replace the nation’s coal- and gas-fired power plants with wind, solar and nuclear energy — will likely be dropped from the massive budget bill pending in Congress, according to Congressional staffers and lobbyists familiar with the matter.

Senator Joe Manchin III, the Democrat from coal-rich West Virginia whose vote is crucial to the passage of the bill, has told the White House that he strongly opposes the clean electricity program, according to three of those people. As a result, White House staffers are now rewriting the legislation without that climate provision, and are trying to cobble together a mix of other policies that could also cut emissions.

Most on this thread saw this coming. To those that didn't, I think now would be a good time to quietly retreat from those loud hardline progressive stances and red lines before you're forced to choose between humiliation or irrationally rejecting half a loaf in favor of none.

Silence, Republican!

[Pericles]

Key to Biden’s Climate Agenda Likely to Be Cut Because of Manchin Opposition

WASHINGTON — The most powerful part of President Biden’s climate agenda — a program to rapidly replace the nation’s coal- and gas-fired power plants with wind, solar and nuclear energy — will likely be dropped from the massive budget bill pending in Congress, according to Congressional staffers and lobbyists familiar with the matter.

Senator Joe Manchin III, the Democrat from coal-rich West Virginia whose vote is crucial to the passage of the bill, has told the White House that he strongly opposes the clean electricity program, according to three of those people. As a result, White House staffers are now rewriting the legislation without that climate provision, and are trying to cobble together a mix of other policies that could also cut emissions.

Most on this thread saw this coming. To those that didn't, I think now would be a good time to quietly retreat from those loud hardline progressive stances and red lines before you're forced to choose between humiliation or irrationally rejecting half a loaf in favor of none.

Disgusting, humanity and the planet can't afford politicians kicking the can down the road anymore. It's hardly surprising though, and it might have to be done to get all the other good stuff in the bill passed.

[Matty]

Manchin is irate at Bernie going into WV to sell the bill

[BigSerg]

https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1449164352246931460?s=20

[roxas11]

Manchin is irate at Bernie going into WV to sell the bill

Live footage of the joe Manchin vs Bernie sanders fight....



Honestly, this behavior is embarrassing for both of them. These are grown man who are acting like children

Rather than coming together in order to get things done on behalf of the American people they much rather have this pointless and ridiculous public fight.

In the end, I guess their bruised egos are far more important than actually helping the American people

[Ferguson97]

https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1449164352246931460?s=20

I really hate this man

[R.P. McM]

https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1449164352246931460?s=20

If that's the case, then both bills simply need to die, and Joe Manchin's political career with them. As far as I'm concerned, climate is non-negotiable. I suspect many of the liberal senators feel likewise. If Biden's presidency amounts to nothing more than destroying the last vestiges of the backstabbing corporate/conservative wing of the Democratic Party, so be it.

[R.P. McM]

Manchin is irate at Bernie going into WV to sell the bill

Live footage of the joe Manchin vs Bernie sanders fight....



Honestly, this behavior is embarrassing for both of them. These are grown man who are acting like children

Rather than coming together in order to get things done on behalf of the American people they much rather have this pointless and ridiculous public fight.

In the end, I guess their bruised egos are far more important than actually helping the American people

Yes, because Joe Manchin's desire to scale back family leave, Medicare benefits, free community college, and green energy is rooted in a desire to help the American people /s.

[nerd73]

In all fairness, this is the natural problem of trying to pass sweeping legislation (which this country does need) on such a ridiculously slim majority. Alas, these were the cards the Democrats were dealt by the voters in 2020.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

Manchin is irate at Bernie going into WV to sell the bill

Live footage of the joe Manchin vs Bernie sanders fight....



Honestly, this behavior is embarrassing for both of them. These are grown man who are acting like children

Rather than coming together in order to get things done on behalf of the American people they much rather have this pointless and ridiculous public fight.

In the end, I guess their bruised egos are far more important than actually helping the American people

One guy wants to make sure seniors have vision, hearing, and dental coverage, reduce the cost of medicine, ensure Americans have family and medical leave, and modernize the energy grid to reduce greenhouse emissions.

One guy says no because reasons.


I’m not picking on you specifically, I just want to emphasize how aggressively stupid reactionary both sides takes are.

[roxas11]

Manchin is irate at Bernie going into WV to sell the bill

Live footage of the joe Manchin vs Bernie sanders fight....



Honestly, this behavior is embarrassing for both of them. These are grown man who are acting like children

Rather than coming together in order to get things done on behalf of the American people they much rather have this pointless and ridiculous public fight.

In the end, I guess their bruised egos are far more important than actually helping the American people

Yes, because Joe Manchin's desire to scale back family leave, Medicare benefits, free community college, and green energy is rooted in a desire to help the American people /s.

At no point did ever claim Joe Manchin silly demands are in the best interest of the American people. I simply pointed out that the pointless fight between him and Berine won't help anybody in the end because When it comes to what is actually in the best interest of the American people, both the progressives and moderates should be willing to compromise and negotiate in good faith

Now, having said all of that, let me be very clear about this I think Joe Manchin demands are ridiculous and it's becoming increasingly clear to me that he cares more about gutting the reconciliation bill than he does about passing the bipartisan infrastructure bill.

As frustrated as I'm am over all of this Joe Manchin was right when he said that if Dems wanted a bigger reconciliation bill they should have elected more progressive Dems in 2020. Had the Dems actually won more senate seats in 2020 we would not even be in this mess in the first place. A democrat senate lead by Joe Manchin is not one that I ever would have wanted, but ultimately that is the Senate that we currently have

So unfortunately in order to get anything done at all we are all just going to have to swallow our pride and deal with this crappy situation the best we possibly can

 

[pppolitics]

In all fairness, this is the natural problem of trying to pass sweeping legislation (which this country does need) on such a ridiculously slim majority. Alas, these were the cards the Democrats were dealt by the voters in 2020.

Sometimes, you have to be grateful for what you have.

"Moderates" Republicans aren't lifting a finger to help and could you imagine if Turtleman is senate majority leader?

[R.P. McM]

Manchin is irate at Bernie going into WV to sell the bill

Live footage of the joe Manchin vs Bernie sanders fight....



Honestly, this behavior is embarrassing for both of them. These are grown man who are acting like children

Rather than coming together in order to get things done on behalf of the American people they much rather have this pointless and ridiculous public fight.

In the end, I guess their bruised egos are far more important than actually helping the American people

Yes, because Joe Manchin's desire to scale back family leave, Medicare benefits, free community college, and green energy is rooted in a desire to help the American people /s.

At no point did ever claim Joe Manchin silly demands are in the best interest of the American people. I simply pointed out that the pointless fight between him and Berine won't help anybody in the end because When it comes to what is actually in the best interest of the American people, both the progressives and moderates should be willing to compromise and negotiate in good faith

Now, having said all of that, let me be very clear about this I think Joe Manchin demands are ridiculous and it's becoming increasingly clear to me that he cares more about gutting the reconciliation bill than he does about passing the bipartisan infrastructure bill.

As frustrated as I'm am over all of this Joe Manchin was right when he said that if Dems wanted a bigger reconciliation bill they should have elected more progressive Dems in 2020. Had the Dems actually won more senate seats in 2020 we would not even be in this mess in the first place. A democrat senate lead by Joe Manchin is not one that I ever would have wanted, but ultimately that is the Senate that we currently have

So unfortunately in order to get anything done at all we are all just going to have to swallow our pride and deal with this crappy situation the best we possibly can

 

Unfortunately, the current system of government gives equal representation to both WV and CA. Which is ludicrous, and probably a recipe for disaster. But I'm not criticizing you for pointing out the obvious status quo. I'm just suggesting that maybe it would be better for Democrats to kill both bills, make an example of Manchin, and forcefully demand the democratization of the Senate. Because a future in which we're all expected to abide by the climate decisions of the idiots of WV is not something I'm willing to accept.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Manchin is irate at Bernie going into WV to sell the bill

Live footage of the joe Manchin vs Bernie sanders fight....



Honestly, this behavior is embarrassing for both of them. These are grown man who are acting like children

Rather than coming together in order to get things done on behalf of the American people they much rather have this pointless and ridiculous public fight.

In the end, I guess their bruised egos are far more important than actually helping the American people

Yes, because Joe Manchin's desire to scale back family leave, Medicare benefits, free community college, and green energy is rooted in a desire to help the American people /s.

At no point did ever claim Joe Manchin silly demands are in the best interest of the American people. I simply pointed out that the pointless fight between him and Berine won't help anybody in the end because When it comes to what is actually in the best interest of the American people, both the progressives and moderates should be willing to compromise and negotiate in good faith

Now, having said all of that, let me be very clear about this I think Joe Manchin demands are ridiculous and it's becoming increasingly clear to me that he cares more about gutting the reconciliation bill than he does about passing the bipartisan infrastructure bill.

As frustrated as I'm am over all of this Joe Manchin was right when he said that if Dems wanted a bigger reconciliation bill they should have elected more progressive Dems in 2020. Had the Dems actually won more senate seats in 2020 we would not even be in this mess in the first place. A democrat senate lead by Joe Manchin is not one that I ever would have wanted, but ultimately that is the Senate that we currently have

So unfortunately in order to get anything done at all we are all just going to have to swallow our pride and deal with this crappy situation the best we possibly can

 

Unfortunately, the current system of government gives equal representation to both WV and CA. Which is ludicrous, and probably a recipe for disaster. But I'm not criticizing you for pointing out the obvious status quo. I'm just suggesting that maybe it would be better for Democrats to kill both bills, make an example of Manchin, and forcefully demand the democratization of the Senate. Because a future in which we're all expected to abide by the climate decisions of the idiots of WV is not something I'm willing to accept.

Do you know one of the things that cannot be amended is the senate allocation rules unless every single state agrees to it.

[pppolitics]

Manchin is irate at Bernie going into WV to sell the bill

Live footage of the joe Manchin vs Bernie sanders fight....



Honestly, this behavior is embarrassing for both of them. These are grown man who are acting like children

Rather than coming together in order to get things done on behalf of the American people they much rather have this pointless and ridiculous public fight.

In the end, I guess their bruised egos are far more important than actually helping the American people

Yes, because Joe Manchin's desire to scale back family leave, Medicare benefits, free community college, and green energy is rooted in a desire to help the American people /s.

At no point did ever claim Joe Manchin silly demands are in the best interest of the American people. I simply pointed out that the pointless fight between him and Berine won't help anybody in the end because When it comes to what is actually in the best interest of the American people, both the progressives and moderates should be willing to compromise and negotiate in good faith

Now, having said all of that, let me be very clear about this I think Joe Manchin demands are ridiculous and it's becoming increasingly clear to me that he cares more about gutting the reconciliation bill than he does about passing the bipartisan infrastructure bill.

As frustrated as I'm am over all of this Joe Manchin was right when he said that if Dems wanted a bigger reconciliation bill they should have elected more progressive Dems in 2020. Had the Dems actually won more senate seats in 2020 we would not even be in this mess in the first place. A democrat senate lead by Joe Manchin is not one that I ever would have wanted, but ultimately that is the Senate that we currently have

So unfortunately in order to get anything done at all we are all just going to have to swallow our pride and deal with this crappy situation the best we possibly can

 

Unfortunately, the current system of government gives equal representation to both WV and CA. Which is ludicrous, and probably a recipe for disaster. But I'm not criticizing you for pointing out the obvious status quo. I'm just suggesting that maybe it would be better for Democrats to kill both bills, make an example of Manchin, and forcefully demand the democratization of the Senate. Because a future in which we're all expected to abide by the climate decisions of the idiots of WV is not something I'm willing to accept.

Sure, why not?

Let's just not do anything for the rest of Biden's presidency and let Trump become president again in 2024.

[R.P. McM]

Manchin is irate at Bernie going into WV to sell the bill

Live footage of the joe Manchin vs Bernie sanders fight....



Honestly, this behavior is embarrassing for both of them. These are grown man who are acting like children

Rather than coming together in order to get things done on behalf of the American people they much rather have this pointless and ridiculous public fight.

In the end, I guess their bruised egos are far more important than actually helping the American people

Yes, because Joe Manchin's desire to scale back family leave, Medicare benefits, free community college, and green energy is rooted in a desire to help the American people /s.

At no point did ever claim Joe Manchin silly demands are in the best interest of the American people. I simply pointed out that the pointless fight between him and Berine won't help anybody in the end because When it comes to what is actually in the best interest of the American people, both the progressives and moderates should be willing to compromise and negotiate in good faith

Now, having said all of that, let me be very clear about this I think Joe Manchin demands are ridiculous and it's becoming increasingly clear to me that he cares more about gutting the reconciliation bill than he does about passing the bipartisan infrastructure bill.

As frustrated as I'm am over all of this Joe Manchin was right when he said that if Dems wanted a bigger reconciliation bill they should have elected more progressive Dems in 2020. Had the Dems actually won more senate seats in 2020 we would not even be in this mess in the first place. A democrat senate lead by Joe Manchin is not one that I ever would have wanted, but ultimately that is the Senate that we currently have

So unfortunately in order to get anything done at all we are all just going to have to swallow our pride and deal with this crappy situation the best we possibly can

 

Unfortunately, the current system of government gives equal representation to both WV and CA. Which is ludicrous, and probably a recipe for disaster. But I'm not criticizing you for pointing out the obvious status quo. I'm just suggesting that maybe it would be better for Democrats to kill both bills, make an example of Manchin, and forcefully demand the democratization of the Senate. Because a future in which we're all expected to abide by the climate decisions of the idiots of WV is not something I'm willing to accept.

Do you know one of the things that cannot be amended is the senate allocation rules unless every single state agrees to it.

You're still assuming that ancient pieces of parchment can thwart the will of the majority. World history suggests that isn't a particularly strong proposition. At some point, no one gives a s**+ what dead generations previously believed. Either you can summon the requisite realpolitik power, or you can't. And I don't think WV can summon the realpolitik power to fight CA.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Manchin is irate at Bernie going into WV to sell the bill

Live footage of the joe Manchin vs Bernie sanders fight....



Honestly, this behavior is embarrassing for both of them. These are grown man who are acting like children

Rather than coming together in order to get things done on behalf of the American people they much rather have this pointless and ridiculous public fight.

In the end, I guess their bruised egos are far more important than actually helping the American people

Yes, because Joe Manchin's desire to scale back family leave, Medicare benefits, free community college, and green energy is rooted in a desire to help the American people /s.

At no point did ever claim Joe Manchin silly demands are in the best interest of the American people. I simply pointed out that the pointless fight between him and Berine won't help anybody in the end because When it comes to what is actually in the best interest of the American people, both the progressives and moderates should be willing to compromise and negotiate in good faith

Now, having said all of that, let me be very clear about this I think Joe Manchin demands are ridiculous and it's becoming increasingly clear to me that he cares more about gutting the reconciliation bill than he does about passing the bipartisan infrastructure bill.

As frustrated as I'm am over all of this Joe Manchin was right when he said that if Dems wanted a bigger reconciliation bill they should have elected more progressive Dems in 2020. Had the Dems actually won more senate seats in 2020 we would not even be in this mess in the first place. A democrat senate lead by Joe Manchin is not one that I ever would have wanted, but ultimately that is the Senate that we currently have

So unfortunately in order to get anything done at all we are all just going to have to swallow our pride and deal with this crappy situation the best we possibly can

 

Unfortunately, the current system of government gives equal representation to both WV and CA. Which is ludicrous, and probably a recipe for disaster. But I'm not criticizing you for pointing out the obvious status quo. I'm just suggesting that maybe it would be better for Democrats to kill both bills, make an example of Manchin, and forcefully demand the democratization of the Senate. Because a future in which we're all expected to abide by the climate decisions of the idiots of WV is not something I'm willing to accept.

Do you know one of the things that cannot be amended is the senate allocation rules unless every single state agrees to it.

You're still assuming that ancient pieces of parchment can thwart the will of the majority. World history suggests that isn't a particularly strong proposition. At some point, no one gives a s**+ what dead generations previously believed. Either you can summon the requisite realpolitik power, or you can't. And I don't think WV can summon the realpolitik power to fight CA.

Doing that would literally cause a civil war and also there is no way you can give CA more representation as not enforcing that provision wouldnt give it more seats either lol.

[R.P. McM]

Manchin is irate at Bernie going into WV to sell the bill

Live footage of the joe Manchin vs Bernie sanders fight....



Honestly, this behavior is embarrassing for both of them. These are grown man who are acting like children

Rather than coming together in order to get things done on behalf of the American people they much rather have this pointless and ridiculous public fight.

In the end, I guess their bruised egos are far more important than actually helping the American people

Yes, because Joe Manchin's desire to scale back family leave, Medicare benefits, free community college, and green energy is rooted in a desire to help the American people /s.

At no point did ever claim Joe Manchin silly demands are in the best interest of the American people. I simply pointed out that the pointless fight between him and Berine won't help anybody in the end because When it comes to what is actually in the best interest of the American people, both the progressives and moderates should be willing to compromise and negotiate in good faith

Now, having said all of that, let me be very clear about this I think Joe Manchin demands are ridiculous and it's becoming increasingly clear to me that he cares more about gutting the reconciliation bill than he does about passing the bipartisan infrastructure bill.

As frustrated as I'm am over all of this Joe Manchin was right when he said that if Dems wanted a bigger reconciliation bill they should have elected more progressive Dems in 2020. Had the Dems actually won more senate seats in 2020 we would not even be in this mess in the first place. A democrat senate lead by Joe Manchin is not one that I ever would have wanted, but ultimately that is the Senate that we currently have

So unfortunately in order to get anything done at all we are all just going to have to swallow our pride and deal with this crappy situation the best we possibly can

 

Unfortunately, the current system of government gives equal representation to both WV and CA. Which is ludicrous, and probably a recipe for disaster. But I'm not criticizing you for pointing out the obvious status quo. I'm just suggesting that maybe it would be better for Democrats to kill both bills, make an example of Manchin, and forcefully demand the democratization of the Senate. Because a future in which we're all expected to abide by the climate decisions of the idiots of WV is not something I'm willing to accept.

Sure, why not?

Let's just not do anything for the rest of Biden's presidency and let Trump become president again in 2024.

Which will be entirely the fault of SineManchin for failing to compromise, not the remaining ~95% of the Democratic Party. And who will actually lose? It won't be the Ilhan Omar's of the world. Nope, it'll be the Kurt Schrader's. Good riddance.

[Pericles]

Manchin is irate at Bernie going into WV to sell the bill

Live footage of the joe Manchin vs Bernie sanders fight....



Honestly, this behavior is embarrassing for both of them. These are grown man who are acting like children

Rather than coming together in order to get things done on behalf of the American people they much rather have this pointless and ridiculous public fight.

In the end, I guess their bruised egos are far more important than actually helping the American people

Yes, because Joe Manchin's desire to scale back family leave, Medicare benefits, free community college, and green energy is rooted in a desire to help the American people /s.

At no point did ever claim Joe Manchin silly demands are in the best interest of the American people. I simply pointed out that the pointless fight between him and Berine won't help anybody in the end because When it comes to what is actually in the best interest of the American people, both the progressives and moderates should be willing to compromise and negotiate in good faith

Now, having said all of that, let me be very clear about this I think Joe Manchin demands are ridiculous and it's becoming increasingly clear to me that he cares more about gutting the reconciliation bill than he does about passing the bipartisan infrastructure bill.

As frustrated as I'm am over all of this Joe Manchin was right when he said that if Dems wanted a bigger reconciliation bill they should have elected more progressive Dems in 2020. Had the Dems actually won more senate seats in 2020 we would not even be in this mess in the first place. A democrat senate lead by Joe Manchin is not one that I ever would have wanted, but ultimately that is the Senate that we currently have

So unfortunately in order to get anything done at all we are all just going to have to swallow our pride and deal with this crappy situation the best we possibly can

 

Unfortunately, the current system of government gives equal representation to both WV and CA. Which is ludicrous, and probably a recipe for disaster. But I'm not criticizing you for pointing out the obvious status quo. I'm just suggesting that maybe it would be better for Democrats to kill both bills, make an example of Manchin, and forcefully demand the democratization of the Senate. Because a future in which we're all expected to abide by the climate decisions of the idiots of WV is not something I'm willing to accept.

'Forcefully demand' equals impotently screaming while Mitch McConnell laughs and with a majority that represents a minority of the population, does whatever he wants. Democrats can do a lot of good things, they have a responsibility to do as much good as they possibly can, and prove that the government can deliver for the people.

[R.P. McM]

Manchin is irate at Bernie going into WV to sell the bill

Live footage of the joe Manchin vs Bernie sanders fight....



Honestly, this behavior is embarrassing for both of them. These are grown man who are acting like children

Rather than coming together in order to get things done on behalf of the American people they much rather have this pointless and ridiculous public fight.

In the end, I guess their bruised egos are far more important than actually helping the American people

Yes, because Joe Manchin's desire to scale back family leave, Medicare benefits, free community college, and green energy is rooted in a desire to help the American people /s.

At no point did ever claim Joe Manchin silly demands are in the best interest of the American people. I simply pointed out that the pointless fight between him and Berine won't help anybody in the end because When it comes to what is actually in the best interest of the American people, both the progressives and moderates should be willing to compromise and negotiate in good faith

Now, having said all of that, let me be very clear about this I think Joe Manchin demands are ridiculous and it's becoming increasingly clear to me that he cares more about gutting the reconciliation bill than he does about passing the bipartisan infrastructure bill.

As frustrated as I'm am over all of this Joe Manchin was right when he said that if Dems wanted a bigger reconciliation bill they should have elected more progressive Dems in 2020. Had the Dems actually won more senate seats in 2020 we would not even be in this mess in the first place. A democrat senate lead by Joe Manchin is not one that I ever would have wanted, but ultimately that is the Senate that we currently have

So unfortunately in order to get anything done at all we are all just going to have to swallow our pride and deal with this crappy situation the best we possibly can

 

Unfortunately, the current system of government gives equal representation to both WV and CA. Which is ludicrous, and probably a recipe for disaster. But I'm not criticizing you for pointing out the obvious status quo. I'm just suggesting that maybe it would be better for Democrats to kill both bills, make an example of Manchin, and forcefully demand the democratization of the Senate. Because a future in which we're all expected to abide by the climate decisions of the idiots of WV is not something I'm willing to accept.

Do you know one of the things that cannot be amended is the senate allocation rules unless every single state agrees to it.

You're still assuming that ancient pieces of parchment can thwart the will of the majority. World history suggests that isn't a particularly strong proposition. At some point, no one gives a s**+ what dead generations previously believed. Either you can summon the requisite realpolitik power, or you can't. And I don't think WV can summon the realpolitik power to fight CA.

Doing that would literally cause a civil war

I would prefer a peaceful partition, but that's probably long overdue. Trying to make the current arrangement functional is just an exercise in futility.

[Mr.Phips]

https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1449164352246931460?s=20

If that's the case, then both bills simply need to die, and Joe Manchin's political career with them. As far as I'm concerned, climate is non-negotiable. I suspect many of the liberal senators feel likewise. If Biden's presidency amounts to nothing more than destroying the last vestiges of the backstabbing corporate/conservative wing of the Democratic Party, so be it.

Letting both bills die would be incredibly stupid for Democrats.  This is very likely the last piece of significant legislation that they will be able to pass for the next ten years.